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Making A Murderer

The history between Avery and Halbach. He specifically requested her. His *67 calls to her phone.

The RAV4 on the property. His DNA under the hood.

Her bones in his fire pit........Her purse, camera, and cell in his burn barrel.

I don't think it happened in any way like the prosecutor and police laid it out but it certainly appears her life ended on his property.

Again, plenty of reasonable doubt and therefore should have been acquitted.

just a few points. he didn't specifically request her, he called autotrader, said he had another vehicle he wanted to advertise and asked to send that girl down again to take more photos. she had been to the avery property 15-20 times to photograph vehicles because that was her territory in the state for autotrader.

the *67 calls were placed because she had told him she'd be at the property to photograph the vehicle around 2pm, it was well after 2pm, he was trying to figure out where she was, when she's coming. his lawyer says that given his history, he really didn't trust people and was protective of personal information like his cell number, so he used *67 often. the call, without 4:35pm without *67 is weird, i'll give you that, but far from incriminating.

his dna wasn't under the hood, there was a bit of his dna on the hood latch, but absolutely none of his blood or dna under the hood. also, the dna on the hood latch wasn't found until march (i believe), which was obviously several months after the vehicle had been in police custody.

the burn pit likely wasn't the burn location considering the condition of the bones and the fact that such a large, open pit wouldn't likely get hot enough to to complete disintegrated the majority of bones. also, a smaller amount of bones were found at the quarry and in the burn barrel. experts testified that the location with the largest amount of bones is in almost all cases not the burn location, i.e. they were moved there to his burn pit in the back yard.

again, as i said before i don't know whether he actually did it or not, my guy says "yeah, he did," but that's based on just a gut feel. there's really very, very little physical evidence that he was the killer. the whole third party protection in the trial really hurt his case, there were others with the same access to the avery property that were just as sketchy, but the defense couldn't even go there largely because the piss-poor job law enforcement did with the initial investigation.
 
I think the Ex boyfriend is a suspect and I have yet to figure out how the cop new it was a 99 model Rav 4
 
I think the Ex boyfriend is a suspect and I have yet to figure out how the cop new it was a 99 model Rav 4

the most common theory on that is he actually found the vehicle that day. if he found he'd easily be able to figure out the year by looking at the vin.
 
just throwing this out there... but a hood latch is located under the hood... the vehicle's battery cables had been disconnected. the speculation is that he leaned over the hood latch while disconnecting them.

again, i "think" he probably did it... but there is no way in hell i would sentence him to anything based on the evidence. i'm also certain the police planted evidence to ensure a conviction...
 
i think you are confusing hood release with hood latch. the release is the handle inside the vehicle you pull to "pop the hood". the latch is usually attached to the radiator support.

source: 10 years as an auto insurance adjuster

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From Kratz interview in the New York Times:

On Monday, Mr. Kratz called the scenario “nonsense,” and he said the jury in Mr. Avery’s trial considered evidence either left out or glossed over by the filmmakers.

That evidence included DNA from Mr. Avery’s sweat found on a latch under the hood of Ms. Halbach’s Toyota RAV4
 
From Kratz interview in the New York Times:

On Monday, Mr. Kratz called the scenario “nonsense,” and he said the jury in Mr. Avery’s trial considered evidence either left out or glossed over by the filmmakers.

That evidence included DNA from Mr. Avery’s sweat found on a latch under the hood of Ms. Halbach’s Toyota RAV4

saying "his dna was found under the hood" sounds like it was found all over the place, when in reality it was found in a single place under the hood, on the hood latch.

“Mr. Kratz feels aggrieved that the evidence of Steven’s DNA on the hood latch, or under the hood, is left out of the film. But there were also no fingerprints there. If the DNA transfer was from his skin to the hood, where are the fingerprints? And you have, probably, both hands on the hood—potentially eight or 10 fingers that could leave at least a partial print.”

from dean strang (one of avery's attorneys) in an interview with the daily beast.
 
listening to some podcasts with other criminal defense attorneys, it seems like the moral story is to never, ever speak to police about a crime, even if you're innocent, only say, "I'd like to speak with my attorney." nothing more.
 
saying "his dna was found under the hood" sounds like it was found all over the place, when in reality it was found in a single place under the hood, on the hood latch.

“Mr. Kratz feels aggrieved that the evidence of Steven’s DNA on the hood latch, or under the hood, is left out of the film. But there were also no fingerprints there. If the DNA transfer was from his skin to the hood, where are the fingerprints? And you have, probably, both hands on the hood—potentially eight or 10 fingers that could leave at least a partial print.”

from dean strang (one of avery's attorneys) in an interview with the daily beast.
Not if he was wearing gloves
 
Its not hard to take gloves off or put them on

so, not wearing gloves to start the car, leaves blood on the car, but no fingerprints nor any other dna. takes gloves off to open the hood latch, leaves non-blood dna, but no blood. then disconnects the battery while leaving no fingerprints, blood, or non-blood dna anywhere else under the hood.
 
It's not far fetched to think that a guy that works at a car salvage yard would put gloves on to work underneath the hood. And seriously you need to calm down a little. I'm just throwing out ideas
 
It's not far fetched to think that a guy that works at a car salvage yard would put gloves on to work underneath the hood. And seriously you need to calm down a little. I'm just throwing out ideas

it's not far fetched at all.

i'm perfectly fine, just pointing out that the blood in the vehicle and non-blood dna only on the hood latch aren't quite smoking guns and kind of suspicious.
 
it's not far fetched at all.

i'm perfectly fine, just pointing out that the blood in the vehicle and non-blood dna only on the hood latch aren't quite smoking guns and kind of suspicious.
I never said it was a smoking gun it defientely doesn't help his case and I just showed that it can be easily explained. I've said all along I think the police planted some evidence but I also think he killed her.
 
I never said it was a smoking gun it defientely doesn't help his case and I just showed that it can be easily explained. I've said all along I think the police planted some evidence but I also think he killed her.

i think the biggest issue is the lack of a lot of people's understanding, or willingness to understand, guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (not you, the jury, and others like scott walker who have commented on the case).

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Could be the age of some of the posters on this board but I'm surprised Fred Zain's name hasn't come up. If you're unaware, I suggest reading up on what went down in WV with his faulty DNA evidence.
 
Could be the age of some of the posters on this board but I'm surprised Fred Zain's name hasn't come up. If you're unaware, I suggest reading up on what went down in WV with his faulty DNA evidence.

As a chemist(ry) guy (in a former life), Zain is a very notorious name in that small circle of folks, at least in this area for folks my age and older. IIRC, Zain faked all of his credentials.
 
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Could be the age of some of the posters on this board but I'm surprised Fred Zain's name hasn't come up. If you're unaware, I suggest reading up on what went down in WV with his faulty DNA evidence.
I seem to recall reading/watching a news story recently that involved him.
 
Could be the age of some of the posters on this board but I'm surprised Fred Zain's name hasn't come up. If you're unaware, I suggest reading up on what went down in WV with his faulty DNA evidence.

the mall rapes/sexual assaults? i think i vaguely remember all that.
 
As a chemist(ry) guy (in a former life), Zain is a very notorious name in that small circle of folks, at least in this area for folks my age and older. IIRC, Zain faked all of his credentials.
When I was at Marshall I remember seeing a special that mentioned the Zain case & they showed footage from one of the trials. The prosecutor in that one case happened to be a professor of mine. I asked her about it in the next class (not in an accusatory manner) & she was very open about it & just how much damage he did to the court system.
 
I just finished the series. I think he killed her but I do think some evidence was planted. I have a hard time believing this girl could be murdered on his property, body burned, car placed there and no one from the Avery family had a clue about it.
 
I just finished the series. I think he killed her but I do think some evidence was planted. I have a hard time believing this girl could be murdered on his property, body burned, car placed there and no one from the Avery family had a clue about it.

if you want, there's a lot of discussion going on at https://www.reddit.com/r/makingamurderer

while i agree, just a gut feeling he did it, i could see her being killed by a number of people (including steven, his brothers, his sister's boyfriend, his nephew(s), her ex-boyfriend, etc). there's no smoking gun evidence that her body was burned there, they found bones in a burn barrel behind his sister's house and down the road at the quarry, could've been either of those places. as far as planting the car, it was a HUGE lot, there was a back road accessible off a main road open to every one back near where the car was ultimately found.

here's the map, the road in the bottom left is a public road into the salvage yard, someone could've easily brought the car in there, dumped it in the location it was found on the back right and none of the averys would've known because it's a good ways from any of the houses: http://i.imgur.com/ucRWsX7.png

again, i think he did it, but i think the cops framed him with pieces of evidence to ensure he'd be found guilty (they had the motive). i just don't see how a jury could convict him on the evidence.
 
Could be the age of some of the posters on this board but I'm surprised Fred Zain's name hasn't come up. If you're unaware, I suggest reading up on what went down in WV with his faulty DNA evidence.

i forgot all about that......
 
listening to some podcasts with other criminal defense attorneys, it seems like the moral story is to never, ever speak to police about a crime, even if you're innocent, only say, "I'd like to speak with my attorney." nothing more.
Damn right. I've never understood why people thought the police are there to help get you out of a jam. It's just not realistic. If they happen to show up in the commission of crime against you, that's great but realistically it almost never happens. I don't hate police, far from it, but remember, these are people who get paid to suspect anyone of any possible crime at any time.
 
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