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Marshall basketball coaches

ohio herd

ohio herd

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Just something to talk about. I will limit this to 1956 onward.
I am torn between how they did here and how they did once they left. I am not sure how to rank Cam Henderson since he mainly coached at lower level. So I will leave him off the list.

1. Billy Donavan ( I know short tenure great career at both college /pro)
2. Dana Altman
3. Rick Huckabay
4. Dan D'antoni
5. Bob Zaffelato (laid the foundation for Hucks herd)
6. Greg White
7. Carl Tacy. (one and done-best team ever, average career at Wake)
8. Jule Rivlin ( first NCAA team)
9. Donnie Jones
10. Stu Aberdeen ( would love to see what he would have done with program)
 
GreenDuke said:
Jule Rivlin broke the color barrier in WV for Div1 bringing in Hal Greer then guys like Bruce Moody and Phil Carter. For this alone he should be much much higher.
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good point. He was before my time. I will say he started strong with the players he inherited from Cam. He went downhill every year after.
 
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ohio herd said:
good point. He was before my time. I will say he started strong with the players he inherited from Cam. He went downhill every year after.
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Rivlin was a polarizing figure in Marshall bb history, in addition to the racial component mentioned before he was Jewish which was a big deal to many at the time. He was MU’s first fast break point guard in the late 30’s, a really good player ahead of his time. As you pointed out his record diminished toward the end, when Ellis Johnson arrived things had hit bottom.
 
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Exactly, GreenDuke, the list lacks credibility in leaving Johnson off the list!! Cupboard was bare when Ellis arrived in 62 and his first two seasons reflected that: 4-20 and 6-17 records!! However, he brought in the talent that began the Herd's resurgence: Redd, Allen, Stone, Davidson, D. D'Antoni, followed by the likes of Blaine Henry, Bernard Bradshaw, Dave Smith, and the likes of Russell Lee, and Mike D'Antoni! He rekindled the fan base interest in Herd basketball, brought the fans back to the Field House. Although team success faltered towards the end, and Johnson's removal was clouded with some dubious circumstances, and perhaps some back room intrigue in Old Main, Coach J's name belongs pretty high up on this list, IMO!
 
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Whether the criteria is how they did at MU vs total career is a huge difference... obviously you went with the latter, because Donovan & Altman don't sniff the top of the list based on what hey did here. And Huck would be no lower than 3rd , depending on if Cam is included. Not sure Zuffelato gets props for setting someone else's foundation when he underachieved badly with the same talent, including losing in the tournament in Charleston. Hard to rank a coach who was only here one season, but Carl Tacy had MU in the top 10... could make a good argument for 1 or 2. (When ESPN incorrectly reported Tacy was coming back to MU one spring evening in 1983, there was massive partying for a night.)
 
Greg’s teams won 115 games and were 87-17 (84%) in home games in Marshall’s Cam Henderson Center and 33-3 (91%) in non-conference home games beating foes like the University of Massachusetts, the University of Georgia, Wake Forest University and the University of Detroit. Greg's Marshall teams scored wins over every Southern Conference and Mid-American Conference teams during his tenure.

Greg was coach while I was in school. Had it not been for the last second tip in the MAC tourney (can't remember what year) Greg would possibly have been one of the greatest. Highly underrated in my opinion. Look at his coaching tree and how many guys went to head jobs. I would move him to second behind Huck with Danny a close third. Billy was exciting but we also forget one of Greg's teams actually lead the NCAA in 3 point percentage.
 
I just can’t rank coaches very high that broke the rules and tainted the school’s reputation. I had a friendship with EJ, he recruited me, and there is no doubt the Huckaby years were exciting. To me integrity has to hold a high place when evaluating success. It’s diffucult to blend everything into one list but this does make a fun discussion.

Brando I agree Greg White had a good career at Marshall. The last second stick back was 1997 in Greensboro vs UTC. Their guy shot an air ball and it landed right in a teammate’s hands for an easy layup. Just a fluke and a very hard loss to swallow.
 
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brando3213 said:
Greg’s teams won 115 games and were 87-17 (84%) in home games in Marshall’s Cam Henderson Center and 33-3 (91%) in non-conference home games beating foes like the University of Massachusetts, the University of Georgia, Wake Forest University and the University of Detroit. Greg's Marshall teams scored wins over every Southern Conference and Mid-American Conference teams during his tenure.

Greg was coach while I was in school. Had it not been for the last second tip in the MAC tourney (can't remember what year) Greg would possibly have been one of the greatest. Highly underrated in my opinion. Look at his coaching tree and how many guys went to head jobs. I would move him to second behind Huck with Danny a close third. Billy was exciting but we also forget one of Greg's teams actually lead the NCAA in 3 point percentage.
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I agree I thought Greg did a solid job here.
 
I don't see where Billy, Altman or Donnie did much for us. Had he lived, Stu would have made things really interesting; we'd at least had Leo Rautens and Robert Earl Jones...
 
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ohio herd said:
I agree I thought Greg did a solid job here.
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I always felt he was a better recruiter than coach.I think the worst than that ever happened to him was being a HC at such a young age at Pikeville. He never had the chance to sit on a bench and learn from watching. I hardly consider 1 year at UCLA as a real learning experience
 
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You know what they say in the NCAA. If you ain’t cheatin, you ain’t tryin.

Obviously Donovan and Altman have had very good careers. Hucks teams were great and it doesn’t get any better than beating WVU with 10K Herd fans screaming their lungs out in the Cam.
 
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Herdmeister said:
I always felt he was a better recruiter than coach.I think the worst than that ever happened to him was being a HC at such a young age at Pikeville. He never had the chance to sit on a bench and learn from watching. I hardly consider 1 year at UCLA as a real learning experience
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100% agree! Greg could recruit and his MAC team always had the best talent on the floor but we never parlayed into the results we all expected. Greg never had a chance to learn at the feet of a master coach by just choosing a different path.
 
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HuntersvilleHerd said:
Whether the criteria is how they did at MU vs total career is a huge difference... obviously you went with the latter, because Donovan & Altman don't sniff the top of the list based on what hey did here. And Huck would be no lower than 3rd , depending on if Cam is included. Not sure Zuffelato gets props for setting someone else's foundation when he underachieved badly with the same talent, including losing in the tournament in Charleston. Hard to rank a coach who was only here one season, but Carl Tacy had MU in the top 10... could make a good argument for 1 or 2. (When ESPN incorrectly reported Tacy was coming back to MU one spring evening in 1983, there was massive partying for a night.)
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Case in point for CARL TACY [1971-1972]....had he not replaced Stewart Wray...Mike D'antoni would have (likely) graduated from Duke University.

HerdZilla22 in Charlotte
 
brando3213 said:
Greg’s teams won 115 games and were 87-17 (84%) in home games in Marshall’s Cam Henderson Center and 33-3 (91%) in non-conference home games beating foes like the University of Massachusetts, the University of Georgia, Wake Forest University and the University of Detroit. Greg's Marshall teams scored wins over every Southern Conference and Mid-American Conference teams during his tenure.

Greg was coach while I was in school. Had it not been for the last second tip in the MAC tourney (can't remember what year) Greg would possibly have been one of the greatest. Highly underrated in my opinion. Look at his coaching tree and how many guys went to head jobs. I would move him to second behind Huck with Danny a close third. Billy was exciting but we also forget one of Greg's teams actually lead the NCAA in 3 point percentage.
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GREG WHITE does NOT get the credit for being an outstanding coach at Marshall....The guy has forgotten more basketball than many coaches will ever learn. JMO.

HerdZilla22 in Charlotte
 
oldeherd said:
Oh HELL YEH! He is in the Hall of Fame for Sideline Flops by a Head Coach!!:D
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Tom Herrion was a nice guy...poor coach! if you ever sat in on one of his practices...you would understand why things did not pan out for Tom.

HJerdZilla22 in Charlotte
 
CarolinaZilla69 said:
Case in point for CARL TACY [1971-1972]....had he not replaced Stewart Wray...Mike D'antoni would have (likely) graduated from Duke University.

HerdZilla22 in Charlotte
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I’ll defer to your familiar connection, pretty sure Mike was headed to Duke before Vic Bubas retired and was replaced by Bucky Waters. Bubas was a great coach and I think the uncertainty at Duke lead him to take another look at Marshall.
I think you’re saying if Tacy and Tooey hadn’t swapped jobs Mike might have transferred to Duke?
 
Tim Hensley said:
Herrion and Jirsa set us back a full 10 years. Corny recently saw Herrion in an airport and Tom didn't even congratulate him on the past two seasons we've had!
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Unfortunately correct, TH. In both cases, both men are probably decent and good family men who, in reality, are really career assistant, perhaps good assistant, coaches. Unfortunately again, for MU, they were BOTH given second shots as head coaches, and those second opportunities came at Marshall where there tenures just proved that what they were happened to be "career assistant college basketball coaches"!!!
 
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Tim Hensley said:
Herrion and Jirsa set us back a full 10 years. Corny recently saw Herrion in an airport and Tom didn't even congratulate him on the past two seasons we've had!
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Probably correct, TH. Both are men are probably pretty decent overall, good family men who, in reality, are career assistant basketball coaches. Perhaps even good assistant basketball coaches overall.

Unfortunately for MU, BOTH men got their SECOND chances at being a college basketball head coach at Marshall! Unfortunately again, for Marshall, those second head coaching tenures just proved that both men were no more than career assistant coaches!!
 
So many incredible individual contributors during White's tenure. Hoose, Veney, Slay, Blackshear, Young, Corney, Brannen, Coles and he recruited AW and Patten. Wish it would have ended on more of a positive note, but definitely a hell of a time to be a student. The win over WVU in OT, 2002, was a top moment in Marshall bball history. I'm sure those present remember the fire alarm going off...complete chaos for about 20 minutes. He also started the tradition of the students standing on the court pregame and huddling with the team right before tip off. That lasted all of one season because of a few rowdy students and possibly some inappropriate comments to the opposing team. Greg was fantastic to the students. I also am partial to Greg because during a trip to Ohio I happened to be escorted out of the gym after we went down 11-1 fouls in the second half. I told security they should be arresting the officials. They didn't find it humorous. I found out later from a player on the team that Greg actually checked to make sure I was okay before they returned home. Good guy. Hope he's doing well.
 
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IMHO.

- Huck. Three NCAA appearances, one NIT. National significance, or at least close to it. Done in by trivial NCAA violations, and by a university president who like to hear himself talk.

- D'Antoni. One NCAA appearance, but that was from a 4th place regular season. Jury still out. If not for that one year, probably would be on a very hot seat today.

- Altman and Donovan. Both good coaches who took the first bus out of town. Cannot really judge.

- Z. Good coach who never got over the top. Tended to blow big games.

- Jones. Ungrateful mediocre coach who blamed others for his failures.

- White. Over-rated. LOSER at Pikeville, LOSER at Harvey High, totally unqualified for the MU job except the boosters, shell-shocked by Altman, Donnan, and Donovan, wanted someone who would never leave us,; and people wanted to believe the "local hero comes home" meme can actually come true. Never accomplished anything. Given way too much time.

- Jirsa. Retread loser coach.

- Herrion. Even worse retread loser coach.

- Freeman. Unqualified. Played the race card in attempt to keep a job he was unable to do. Zero personality.

Everybody else is before my time.
 
The Real SamC said:
IMHO.

- Huck. Three NCAA appearances, one NIT. National significance, or at least close to it. Done in by trivial NCAA violations, and by a university president who like to hear himself talk.

- D'Antoni. One NCAA appearance, but that was from a 4th place regular season. Jury still out. If not for that one year, probably would be on a very hot seat today.

- Altman and Donovan. Both good coaches who took the first bus out of town. Cannot really judge.

- Z. Good coach who never got over the top. Tended to blow big games.

- Jones. Ungrateful mediocre coach who blamed others for his failures.

- White. Over-rated. LOSER at Pikeville, LOSER at Harvey High, totally unqualified for the MU job except the boosters, shell-shocked by Altman, Donnan, and Donovan, wanted someone who would never leave us,; and people wanted to believe the "local hero comes home" meme can actually come true. Never accomplished anything. Given way too much time.

- Jirsa. Retread loser coach.

- Herrion. Even worse retread loser coach.

- Freeman. Unqualified. Played the race card in attempt to keep a job he was unable to do. Zero personality.

Everybody else is before my time.
Click to expand...


*** The violations that occurred during RH’s tenure were not trivial. ***
The most egregious never saw the light of day in the local media.
 
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I respectfully disagree on your White assessment. Even during Greg's down years he finished middle of the pack in a tough MAC conference. I'll admit I was ready for a change and heard the news he was leaving driving to a Reds game. But it's also easy for me to look back on those years with fond memories. Had the SoCon championship game ended differently he would have gone down as one of the best. I understand those that will say you can't play the "what if" game. Same can be said about Danny and his tenure. Had Jon not showed up at Danny's office one day and the WKU shot goes through the net we might be looking for a coach right now. I'm thrilled we are not! Jumping to another topic I think next year will be very similar to this past season with incredible highs and lows. I am willing to stick it out and believe the 20-21 team could be the best team Marshall has seen in quite some time.
 
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Everyone thought Huck was a great coach, until Dan Bell left. Dan was the assistant coach who was the "floor coach", the X's and O's. Huck was the flash, and the "sizzell". During time outs Dan coached and Huck cheered.
 
GreenDuke said:
*** The violations that occurred during RH’s tenure were not trivial. ***
The most egregious never saw the light of day in the local media.
Click to expand...

The "local media" has nothing to do with it. The complete report of every NCAA violation ever is in the database at ncaa.org. If you read it, you read about trivia. Cheap gold charms, a bank loaning money for a few months until financial aid cleared, Huck giving kids Christmas gifts the most valuable of which was $79, paying for a tank of gas, or a motel for parents, arranging for poor kids to stay over Christmas break with boosters, and transporting recruits on a charter plane. Trivia.

Things that went on, and still go on, at bigger places without penalty. Because the NCAA is totally corrupt institution, with a total double standard. While on the database check out the outright crimes that go on the big places.
 
oldeherd said:
Oh HELL YEH! He is in the Hall of Fame for Sideline Flops by a Head Coach!!:D
Click to expand...

Herrion was a bit excessive in his animation and wasn't always a guru in coaching, but Herrion managed to beat top 25 teams, got us 2nd in C-USA back when it was loaded, and got us to the NIT in just 4 years.

Thats kind of impressive considering MU is a mid major.
 
Okay... debated weighing in on this because of so many direct, personal connections to these guys. I was a student manager for Huck, Dana, Dwight, and Billy... meaning that DJ and Greg were both assistant coaches. On top of that, I had the privilege of doing my Master's Thesis on Jules Rivlin which involved several hours of one-on-one interviews.

For all the Huck-bashers out there, we are the only program in the history of collegiate athletics to self-report. The supposedly egregious transgressions are but a blip on the radar on any major college recruiting trip - much less 4-year period of time as a player. Say what you want, I was there every day and know all of the absolute garbage that went on with BFish and LMoon. Not saying Huck was squeaky clean by any stretch - but that was an absolute witch hunt. So here goes..
  1. Danny D - only NCAA tournament win in the programs history counts for tons in my book. Plus, coach two top-5 scorers and is a consistent winner. Love the vision and where he is taking the program. We're relevant again.
  2. Coach Huck - loved him and miss him. Might have been a little wild-wild-west, but Huck cared about all of us. Three NCAAs and an NIT speak for themselves - as does the win percentage and the great big FU to WVU in white tuxedos... add in the fact that we went toe-to-toe with WVU throughout his tenure and won in the Coliseum.
  3. Jules Rivlin - Willing to be the coach that broke the color barrier at Marshall with Hal Greer. Point made in one of the other posts about being a Jewish head coach in West Virginia was very insightful and Riv personally shared with me how heavy his heart was about how things went south at the end taking the luster off of the accomplishments from his early years in Cam's shadow.
  4. Greg White - Coach White won a lot of games, and was a whisker away from the NCAA tournament in '97 with Veney, Brannon, and Sidney & company against a very good Chattanooga team that lost in the Sweet 16 to Providence.
  5. Billy Donovan - Loved working for Billy D, but he simply wasn't at Marshall long enough to get much higher on the list. Re-invigorated Marshall Basketball after the Freeman years, brought in ridiculous talent that continued to win under Greg White. Obviously went on to incredible heights at Florida and is very successful in the NBA.
I don't think anyone else was successful enough, for long enough, or did enough after leaving to make the list. Stu Aberdeen woulda been, coulda been and from all the stories I've heard was a special personality... Dana and Carl Tacy as one-and-done's cant possibly figure into the mix. Bob Z on the outside looking in a little - certainly brought in talent that set Huck up for success, but could never win the big game.

Fire away.
 
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pdbailey said:
You do realize that this is a huge violation? Right?
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Funny thing... I drove the University van back and forth from the Radisson to the Henderson Center every day over Christmas for practices... I seem to recall the players being in that van - but the NCAA wasn't interested in that version of what happened... Only Lee Moon's version.
 
I won’t recite the list of violations that never saw the light of day because many of the principles are still living, many in the Htgn area, and for all I know posting on this site.

Also the “ everybody does it“ defense is weak.
 
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GreenDuke said:
I won’t recite the list of violations that never saw the light of day because many of the principles are still living, many in the Htgn area, and for all I know posting on this site.

Also the “ everybody does it“ defense is weak.
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Never said "everybody does it" as a defense... the fact that you have this knowledge that there is a "list of violations that never saw the light of day" further validates the witch hunt - "BFish told us what we wanted to hear the Grad Assistant Job as quid pro quo and get on with things."

I lived it... am friends to this day with others that lived it... have the green warm-ups in my dad's closet... still have a pair of the Converse with the heel insert that fell out in the middle of games. Go ahead and trample the man's grave - you were probably in the lower bowl cheering on back in the day. You also probably have an autographed copy of John Wooden Pyramid of Success that you show off to all of your friends and never mention for a minute that His Holiness allowed unbelievable cheating to go on right under his nose then ran into retirement to live without blemish.

Huck did some things wrong and paid an exponentially higher price than was deserved. He was a good man and a great coach no matter what Lee Moon's revisionist historians want to put out there.
 
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