shelf life for Marshall BB coaches

[The Real SamC]

And people say I am obsessed with WVU!

Fact is, WVU has moved many levels above MU. It demanded better while we continue to accept mediocrity.

And if of you have ever placed a bet I would be surprised. Fact is no legal casino would dare offer a line on such a game, because the spread would be too great.

Of course, this is theoretical. Once about even, and playing each year, the two programs are now so far apart that such a game would be ridiculous. MU would never win, never be close. The difference between accepting mediocrity and demanding better.

WVU exists. A bunch of non-alumni hill jacks often get in your face about their existence (particularly in the months before each December and March’s cold douche of football and basketball reality are applied). Being fixated on them does no one any good. Rather just be better fans of MU. First by living in reality, where you don’t see greatness or even acceptability where none exists. Second by demanding better.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Sam, Sam, Sam. You have wasted so much time in your failing (flailing?) effort to convince all of us that WVU would always beat MU by a minimum of 50 points....right? Then you fail to back up your fantasy with any recent head to head results. When was the last time these two teams met on the hardwood? Not that long ago, as it turns out. 2018. Yeah, they beat us up pretty good, not close to 50. It was about 15, right? So, on a neutral court when losing means your season is finished, the mighty Mountaineers "wiped the floor" with us by 15 points. You think that a WVU @ MU game in the Henderson Center (where all previous MU home games have been played) in front of perhaps 10,000 (sro) people wouldn't be a challenge for the drunk fat guy who looks like he belongs in a good fellas type of movie than on the sidelines of a college hoops game?

You are about to lose a $500 bet, a bet foolishly wagered in the height of your denigration of our Herd basketball program. Now you are making even wilder predictions, based on nothing but your opinions, which are proven time & time again to be wrong. You say Vegas would never touch a game between MU & WVU.....based on what, your knowledge of the bookies? I say Vegas will take bets on just about anything, as long as the odds make sense to them. Who do you think would be proven right if the game were to occur? Hint - not you.

 

[greengeezer]

At one point, Kansas State went eleven years without beating Kansas in basketball and those two schools are in the same conference. I would like to play the Morgantown School on occasion even though we might not win very often.

 

[Jeepers Creepers]

When was the last time these two teams met on the hardwood? Not that long ago, as it turns out. 2018. Yeah, they beat us up pretty good, not close to 50. It was about 15, right?

For the record, WVU was favored by 12.5 in that game and won by 23 (94-71).

 

[W-S HerdFan]

For the record, WVU was favored by 12.5 in that game and won by 23 (94-71).

Ahhhhh....funny how memory minimizes the margin of defeat and multiplies the margin of victory...

 

[The Real SamC]

In other words, you were wrong. Wrong about something you can easily look up on Wikipedia. And you try to ridicule me.

Anyway, fact is that the basketball series ended, probably about 5-8 years after it should have, because MU could no longer field a team that any more than a one-in-a-million upset chance of beating WVU, even in our best and their worst year. When the series was started, also probably about 5-8 years after it should have been, MU and WVU were about at the same level. Over the 37 years that the games were played, WVU rose from a faded and moribund program which could not sell out its own building (remember it was “The House The Herd Filled”) to something just a tick below the top level. MU accepted mediocrity, and is mediocre.

Anybody who does not understand that WVU would beat us by whatever amount it cared to, every year, no matter where the game was played, is delusional. The fact that THIRTY YEARS AGO MU was 3-0 in games played in Huntington is, of course, irrelevant.

 

[RhinoD]

Anybody who does not understand that WVU would beat us by whatever amount it cared to, every year, no matter where the game was played, is delusional. The fact that THIRTY YEARS AGO MU was 3-0 in games played in Huntington is, of course, irrelevant.

Again, statements like this are why people make fun of you and don't take you seriously... And I actually agree with your premise that there's really no reason why WVU and Marshall should play in football or basketball beyond we happen to share the same state of residence.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Sam C said:
The fact that THIRTY YEARS AGO MU was 3-0 in games played in Huntington is, of course, irrelevant.

Talk about lazy research! You are incorrect. Anyone who attended all of those games (as I did) knows the record in the Henderson Center for WVU was 0-5, not 3. Just another nail in your coffin......
Also, why did Vegas make us only a 12 pt dog in San Diego? They must’ve lost their butts!!!!

 

[The Real SamC]

You do understand how gambling works, right?

The goal in setting a line is to get an equal amount of $$ bet on both sides of a proposition, such that the house does not care about the results, as it makes the vig (the 10% profit) either way.

Anyone who thinks that LV (actually sports gambling is legal in 31 states, including this one, now) “loses their butts” should refrain from commenting on lines and the spread until they understand how it all works.

In any event, anyone who thinks that WVU would not pick the score, in Charleston, Morgantown, of, regardless of what happened 3 decades ago, in Huntington, does not understand basketball. WVU has demanded, and achieved, better, and we have accepted, and become, mediocre. Which is why the series was rightly ended. We are no longer on their level and can no longer field a creditable team vs them.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Sorry Sam - I thought even you would recognize sarcasm when you saw it!

5-0 Herd in Huntington, correct? Or is this another case of "when confronted with a incontrovertible fact that destroys my comment, just ignore the fact and keep on spewing my fantasies...…..

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Anyone who thinks that WVU would not pick the score, in Huntington or Morgantown, regardless of what happened 2 decades ago, does not understand football. WVU has demanded, and achieved, better, and we have accepted, and become, mediocre. Which is why the series was rightly ended. We are no longer on their level and can no longer field a creditable team vs them.

You're describing the football program! FIFY

 

[The Real SamC]

5-0 Herd in Huntington, correct?

Last one of those was in 1990. Nobody on today’s teams were alive. It has nothing to do with today’s teams or players.

Except that it shows how a program we were once competitive with we no longer are. They improved by demanding better. We settled, and still settle for mediocrity.

Saying “well, boy, they never beat us in Huntington when we played in Huntington, THIRTY YEARS AGO” misses the point of how FAR they have come by demanding better, and how far we have fallen by accepting mediocrity. Anyone who thinks that WVU would not set the score vs us, wherever played, is delusional.

The series ended because we DO NOT DESERVE to play WVU anymore. People need to stop worrying about beating WVU, and consider why we think beating WKU is a big deal.

 

[ohio herd]

In other words, you were wrong. Wrong about something you can easily look up on Wikipedia. And you try to ridicule me.

Anyway, fact is that the basketball series ended, probably about 5-8 years after it should have, because MU could no longer field a team that any more than a one-in-a-million upset chance of beating WVU, even in our best and their worst year. When the series was started, also probably about 5-8 years after it should have been, MU and WVU were about at the same level. Over the 37 years that the games were played, WVU rose from a faded and moribund program which could not sell out its own building (remember it was “The House The Herd Filled”) to something just a tick below the top level. MU accepted mediocrity, and is mediocre.

Anybody who does not understand that WVU would beat us by whatever amount it cared to, every year, no matter where the game was played, is delusional. The fact that THIRTY YEARS AGO MU was 3-0 in games played in Huntington is, of course, irrelevant.

Sam I agree they got better and we didn't. I don't agree we settled and they didn't. The difference was they got into the Big East and we got into the MAC. Huge difference. They were suddenly in one of the best basketball conferences. They had the ability to recruit top tier players who could play against top tier teams, we did not.

 

[RhinoD]

In any event, anyone who thinks that WVU would not pick the score, in Charleston, Morgantown, of, regardless of what happened 3 decades ago, in Huntington, does not understand basketball.

If you say something ridiculous, enough times, and in enough slightly different sentences, maybe it will cease to be ridiculous?... It doesn't.

Again, I agree with you that MU and WVU have no reason to play each other.

But I also feel like it's important to interject some actual facts into the nonsense that this thread has become... So here goes...

MU and WVU have played 18 times since 2000 (what most people consider recent history). WVU is 14-4 in those games, representing a .778 winning percentage. There is no reason to assume that a similar winning percentage would not continue into the future, thus saying WVU would beat Marshall as badly as it wanted, every single year, in perpetuity, is idiotic.

Over the course of the series (in the modern basketball era, since 1978)... WVU is 27-11 against Marshall, representing a .711 winning percentage.

If MU and WVU were to restart their basketball series (and Im not advocating for that in any way) it's most likely that WVU would win between 70-80 percent of the games going forward.

Now back to your regularly scheduled message board tantrum.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Facts are a stubborn thing......I must not have read the part of the article where AD Lyons or AD Hamrick commented on whether or not MU "deserves" to play WVU going forward......did I just misread?

By Doug Smock
The Capital Classic will not be played next season.

The annual men’s basketball showdown between West Virginia and Marshall at the Charleston Civic Center will not be on the 2016-17 schedule, according to sources at WVU and Marshall who asked not to be named.
There are no games scheduled between the state’s only Division I programs, although the schools could resume discussions about renewing the series at a later date.
“I have not been advised to hold any dates at this point,” said John Robertson, general manager of the Civic Center.

The schools have renewed the series yearly since Feb. 20, 1978. The game was played solely in Morgantown until Jan. 2, 1980, when WVU won a 63-62 overtime game in Charleston.

WVU never played in Marshall’s old Memorial Field House, but the series was played on an alternating-campus basis when the Cam Henderson Center was finished in the early 1980s. That continued through December 1990, with one rotation through Charleston thrown in.

The series went to the Civic Center full time in January 1992, with the game last month representing the 25th consecutive visit to West Virginia’s capital city. The game grew into the Capital Classic, complete with a title sponsor.

At least one state senator hopes to keep the series going, with some legislative muscle.

Sen. Michael Woelfel, D-Cabell — who said he had heard that the series was “on life support” — plans to introduce a bill in the upcoming legislative session that would mandate a WVU-Marshall men’s basketball game.

Woelfel, a Marshall undergraduate with a WVU law degree, said the game promotes goodwill among residents and generates extra revenue for both schools.

The game has consistently drawn 10,000 to 12,000 fans, the latter number nearing the building’s 12,337-seat capacity for basketball. Last month’s installment drew 11,748 fans on a Thursday night the week before Christmas.

WVU played one other game at the Civic Center this season, against James Madison. The listed attendance was 8,101.

Marshall Athletic Director Mike Hamrick said his school generally makes $150,000 to $175,000 on the game, depending on ticket sales. That does not include money from IMG College, which has a media and advertising contract with both schools.

WVU Athletic Director Shane Lyons provided a noncommittal statement Wednesday afternoon.

“While we recognize there are fans who want to see the game return, our focus right now is on the Oklahoma State game this Saturday at 1 p.m. in the Coliseum, and the remaining Big 12 schedule in the coming months,” Lyons said. “Our men’s basketball team is 13-1 and ranked as high as No. 15 nationally. Our basketball staff is concentrating on winning a Big 12 championship.”

WVU owns a 33-11 lead in the series, 11-1 in Morgantown, 0-5 in Huntington and 22-5 in Charleston. The game at the Civic Center was played in January or February — coinciding with the legislative session — 20 of 21 years, before being moved to December for the last three.

The Mountaineers have won the last five, and nine of the last 10. That includes the latest contest, WVU’s easy 86-68 win last month. There have been close games, some going into overtime, and there have been major upsets — in 2005 and 2006, Marshall teams with losing records knocked off WVU teams ranked in the Top 25.

Has WVU ever approached beating us by 50??

 

[The Real SamC]

If MU and WVU were to restart their basketball series (and Im not advocating for that in any way) it's most likely that WVU would win between 70-80 percent of the games going forward.

So, since MU won exactly ONE game out of the last 10, and that a 4 point upset over a WVU team that lost in the second round NCAA, you are saying that MU has IMPROVED relative to WVU in the four seasons since the regular series ended, such that now it would lose only 7 or 8 times out of 10, rather than 9 out of 10.

Fact is, in the last 4 years, WVU, demanding better, has gotten better, not worse. If we played WVU, and I AGREE WE SHOULD NOT and my whole point in bringing this up was to point out how dumb it is to worry about WVU, but rather than get the point the delusionals jumped on me for not joining their delusion fest where we are just awesome, we would lose 10 out of 10 years, at least 8 out of those 10 by 20 plus margins. Facts.

 

[RhinoD]

So, since MU won exactly ONE game out of the last 10, and that a 4 point upset over a WVU team that lost in the second round NCAA, you are saying that MU has IMPROVED relative to WVU in the four seasons since the regular series ended, such that now it would lose only 7 or 8 times out of 10, rather than 9 out of 10.

Thats actually the antithesis of what I am saying... The fallacy of your argument is that WVU will continue to improve every season (they wont, programs go up and down) and that MU will never improve, or is incapable of pulling an upset (unlikely by definition, but not impossible).

I know math aint for everybody... But all the data that is available over the course of the two teams history says WVU would win between 70-80 percent of future meetings. Thus your nonsense about WVU picking the score from now til forever is dumb.

Would WVU beat Marshall this year, almost certainly, as I pointed out earlier in this thread if that game were played WVU would be somewhere between a 18-20 point favorite. But that doesnt mean statistically that WVU would dominate every game evermore, or that they would never lose again to MU.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Last effort to escape the tar baby: You say your predictions are "facts." I would wager that you make a lot of money betting Vegas.

Since there is no way to predict the future, we only have the past to base anything on. You are discussing 10 games into the future, so I looked up the most recent 10 games. Average score (incl 2018): WVU 76.2 MU 66.5 . So, with an average margin of victory (mov) of less than 10 points a game, how you are predicting mov in the 22.5 range? Based on what? Also, attendance for these games has always been large, usually close to capacity wherever it has been played. So, fans are motivated to come out & watch. Rivalries are not always about relative strength. Sometimes they just get interesting. I was in attendance the 1st time we won in Morgantown in 1980 (senior year). Let me just say things happened at the Holiday Inn that night that I will never forget! It was awesome....peace brother.

 

[herd4life5 (HN)]

I like DD. He is a good fit for the Herd. However, based on how past coaches have faired he may wear out his welcome before long.

Rick Huckabay 6 yrs 129-59 (3) ncaa 686% left after issues with ncaa
Greg White 7 yrs 115-84 (0) ncaa 578% left after the heat got too hot from fans?
Dan D'Antoni 6 yrs 104-86 (1) ncaa 547% current coach

Tom Herrion 4 yrs 67-67 (0) ncaa 500% fired
Bob Daniels 5 yrs 71-62 (0) ncaa 534% fired
Bob Zuffelato 4 yrs 71-41 (0) ncaa 634% left after heat got too hot from the fans?

I picked these because they are more recent and coached here at least 4 years or more. Curious what you guys think. How long will he be here before the fans turn on him, or will he stay because he is loved by about everyone.This is not a fire DD thread. I support him.

Only morons would not support this program at this point.

 

[mu_herd]

MU beating WVU in basketball in this era would be a far greater upset than SFASU. SFASU has been in the real tournament 5 out of the last 10 years, the NIT 2 more. Yes it was a 30 point line. No book would even offer a line on WVU-MU. It would have to be 50 or more, and they don’t do that.

I've read a lot of dumb things on here, but this 50 point line shenanigans is, without a doubt, the winner.

WVU is good right now. Marshall isn't right now. Yes there would be a line, and no it would not be 50 or more.

And before you try and give me 100 different reasons why you're right, I don't care. You're not right, and there is no amount of yelling at clouds that would change my mind.

 

[The Real SamC]

Yes, I accept that you have a closed mind.