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big_country90

big_country90

Platinum Buffalo
Feb 9, 2007
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Anybody get into this? I normally don’t, unless there is a prospect like a Zion Williams involved. There are several good storylines.

The Knicks have one of the highest percentage chances of landing the # 1 pick tonight. A lot of people think Kevin Durant signs with them in the offseason. That would surely lure another big name free agent and could transform the Knicks franchise overnight.

What if LeBron and the Lakers beat the odds and land him? This would be similar to David Robinson/Tim Duncan with the Spurs.

I’m watching for that reason alone. Should be interesting, and will set the tone of the NBA offseason for sure.
 
NBA is desperate to have the Lakers and LeBron back in the playoffs, so don't be shocked if the L.A. Lakers ball happens to miraculously end up with the #1 pick.
 
wvkeeper(HN) said:
I'm 100% on the Lakers winning the lottery.

No way they let Zion go to Arizona or Atlanta or Memphis or New Orleans.
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I would agree with you except they need Zion to build his own brand so the torch can be passed in a few years. NYC is the best place to do that. He'd get overshadowed by
Lebron.

I'm totally sold on the lottery being a fraud however.
 
Raoul Duke MU said:
Will he now? Maybe he says young Zion sounds better than old Lebron.
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He should at least play with Zion to determine if that cat is going to be the real deal or not. At the very least, stay with the team until next year's trading deadline. More than likely, there might be some dealing for that top pick, if Coach/Player/GM LeBron James is still calling all the shots in L.A.

If the Lakers top executive had a set of balls, she would move LeBron.
 
If you're AD, you call Kevin Durant and tell him to meet him in NY. NY sends a better pick and a young player to NO. You surround AD & KD with shooters/defenders, play without a true PG, and run high PnR with your 4 & 5 all game long.
 
Raoul Duke MU said:
Will he now? Maybe he says young Zion sounds better than old Lebron.
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Still gone. Why play with a guy that won’t be ready to dominate the league for three or four years ( history supports that… Same thing happened with LeBron, KD, and many others) when he can go to Los Angeles and play with arguably the best player of all time while he is still playing at a very high-level? The groin thing was overblown. LeBron could’ve played much more if the team was a playoff contender. Also, LeBron had his best point, rebound, and assist totals of his career, per minute, before the injury occurred.

Davis can win now and then choose to be a Laker for his entire career or he can go somewhere else in four years. Either way, he is better off playing with LeBron right now. Throw in the max contract money that the Lakers have and they are going to get a top free agent as well.
 
Sean Hammond said:
If you're AD, you call Kevin Durant and tell him to meet him in NY. NY sends a better pick and a young player to NO. You surround AD & KD with shooters/defenders, play without a true PG, and run high PnR with your 4 & 5 all game long.
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The Lakers have better young players, and the difference between pick number three and four doesn’t matter since it’s not Zion.

Plus, Davis wants to play in Los Angeles. He has made that clear.
 
big_country90 said:
The Lakers have better young players, and the difference between pick number three and four doesn’t matter since it’s not Zion.

Plus, Davis wants to play in Los Angeles. He has made that clear.
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1. NO picks where to send him. Not only do they get a higher pick by sending him to NY, but they send him to the east. Paul George said he wanted to go to LA too and that changed real quick. He decided to stay in OKC. It was said Leonard wanted to play in LA and it's being said now that IF he does leave Toronto, it will be to the Clippers.
2. Lebron isn't respected by other players. He's into his brand now (movies, producing shows, etc) not basketball. Nobody wants to be in the space jam movie with him, let alone play with him. He wants to control so much and no other star player wants to be saddled with that when James is gone...which is why Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland before Lebron bolted. The Lakers couldn't even hire a decent coach (Monty Williams chose the f'n Suns--Ty Lue wouldn't accept the 3 year deal that coincides w/Lebron's contract) & the organization is disorganized. Things won't change there until Lebron is out the door and the Lakers are ran by a competent basketball executive. They're becoming the Raiders of the NBA.
3. I agree with the whole Zion thing you mentioned in an earlier post. He isn't going to be ready to lead a team for 3-4 years, and that's if he's ever ready. I don't think Zion is the once in a generation player like he's been hyped to be. He's Draymond Green with Blake Griffen's athleticism/highlights. NO won't be able to attract free agents like a larger market team can, so AD needs to get out. Zion doesn't change that.
 
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Sean Hammond said:
1. NO picks where to send him. Not only do they get a higher pick by sending him to NY, but they send him to the east. Paul George said he wanted to go to LA too and that changed real quick. He decided to stay in OKC. It was said Leonard wanted to play in LA and it's being said now that IF he does leave Toronto, it will be to the Clippers.
2. Lebron isn't respected by other players. He's into his brand now (movies, producing shows, etc) not basketball. Nobody wants to be in the space jam movie with him, let alone play with him. He wants to control so much and no other star player wants to be saddled with that when James is gone...which is why Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland before Lebron bolted. The Lakers couldn't even hire a decent coach (Monty Williams chose the f'n Suns) & the organization is disorganized. Things won't change there until Lebron is out the door and the Lakers are ran by a competent basketball executive. They're becoming the Raiders of the NBA.
3. I agree with the whole Zion thing you mentioned in an earlier post. He isn't going to be ready to lead a team for 3-4 years, and that's if he's ever ready. I don't think Zion is the once in a generation player like he's been hyped to be. He's Draymond Green with Blake Griffen's athleticism/highlights. NO won't be able to attract free agents like a larger market team can, so AD needs to get out. Zion doesn't change that.
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The biggest difference in New York and Los Angeles is that Los Angeles can offer better players and basically the same draft pick. He will end up in Los Angeles for that reason, if nothing else.
 
big_country90 said:
The biggest difference in New York and Los Angeles is that Los Angeles can offer better players and basically the same draft pick. He will end up in Los Angeles for that reason, if nothing else.
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The young players who couldn't get the Lakers into the playoffs w/Lebron? Nobody desires to build their future around those over-hyped players, who only get hyped because they play in LA.

And the difference in the 3rd and 4th pick is big. It's the difference between RJ Barrett (who was the projected #1 pick before Zion started dunking on kids and could be the better pro) and Deandre Hunter/Jarrett Culver/Cam Reddish
 
I don't follow the NBA closely as you all know. But, as much I like Zion in college, I see him as not a dominate figure in the NBA. He would be a great compliment to a team, but not guy that is just going to take it over.
 
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i am herdman said:
I don't follow the NBA closely as you all know. But, as much I like Zion in college, I see him as not a dominate figure in the NBA. He would be a great compliment to a team, but not guy that is just going to take it over.
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I agree 100%. He'll be a really good player, but he's largely a creation of ESPN. During Final Four pregame shows talked just as much about him not being there as they did Mich St, UVA, Texas Tech, & Auburn.

He won't be able to bully the men he's about to go against. He'll still have a bunch of highlight plays and they'll hype him up, because what else are you going to talk about November-April? But when the calendar hits May/June, I doubt Zion will be the main cog on any conference/NBA Finals' teams.
 
Sean Hammond said:
The young players who couldn't get the Lakers into the playoffs w/Lebron? Nobody desires to build their future around those over-hyped players, who only get hyped because they play in LA.

And the difference in the 3rd and 4th pick is big. It's the difference between RJ Barrett (who was the projected #1 pick before Zion started dunking on kids and could be the better pro) and Deandre Hunter/Jarrett Culver/Cam Reddish
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Boston still has the best package of players and picks to offer up in a trade.
 
Raoul Duke MU said:
He might not even be in the Top 5 for the Lakers. Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt (yes, I know it was on the downside of his career), West....
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Guys… Lebron is, at worst, the second best player of all time. You’re making this claim simply because he has not accomplished anything with the Lakers yet. That’s not a fair comparison.
 
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big_country90 said:
Guys… Lebron is, at worst, the second best player of all time. You’re making this claim simply because he has not accomplished anything with the Lakers yet. That’s not a fair comparison.
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Not true.

Is he better than Jordan? No. Is he actually better than Kareem or Kobe? I know different positions. But, where does Lebron fit. I think Jordan in the best. I think Kobe at his best is better than Lebron. I think Kareem had a fabulous career. Lebron has a lot of weakness and to me he appears to be toxic.
main-qimg-9e202c02938ed388add2bca0052782d9
 
i am herdman said:
Not true.

Is he better than Jordan? No. Is he actually better than Kareem or Kobe? I know different positions. But, where does Lebron fit. I think Jordan in the best. I think Kobe at his best is better than Lebron. I think Kareem had a fabulous career. Lebron has a lot of weakness and to me he appears to be toxic.
main-qimg-9e202c02938ed388add2bca0052782d9
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Not getting into the argument because it is never ending. But that is a terrific chart comparing the numbers, Jabbar is almost a forgotten star but how many players can say they were so dominant high school and college rules organizations CHANGED THE FREAKING RULES. I’ve seen them all from the late 50’s on and NOBODY impacted the game, with a nod to Wilt) like Lew Alcindor
 
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Raoul Duke MU said:
He might not even be in the Top 5 for the Lakers. Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Shaq, Wilt (yes, I know it was on the downside of his career), West....
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What does LeBron’s legacy look like if he never makes the playoffs in the western conference and his record vs the western conference in the NBA Finals is 18-31? Or if he makes it as a 6, 7, or 8 seed and gets bounced in the 1st round the remainder of his career?

Hard to argue him over Kobe in that scenario.
 
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big_country90 said:
he has not accomplished anything with the Lakers yet.
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Yes and no.

Jordan is the GOAT. I think Jordan had more will to win than anyone ever in team sports. You know how a young Mike Tyson wanted to kill motherfvckers in the ring? That's Jordan on the court.

I don't think you know how great Kareem was. In the era of great centers, no one could defend him.
 
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GreenDuke said:
Not getting into the argument because it is never ending. But that is a terrific chart comparing the numbers, Jabbar is almost a forgotten star but how many players can say they were so dominant high school and college rules organizations CHANGED THE FREAKING RULES. I’ve seen them all from the late 50’s on and NOBODY impacted the game, with a nod to Wilt) like Lew Alcindor
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Alcindor is probably the most underappreciated athlete of al time that doesnt get the respect he deserves.
 
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Raoul Duke MU said:
Yes and no.

Jordan is the GOAT. I think Jordan had more will to win than anyone ever in team sports. You know how a young Mike Tyson wanted to kill motherfvckers in the ring? That's Jordan on the court.

I don't think you know how great Kareem was. In the era of great centers, no one could defend him.
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The sky hook was unstoppable
 
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GreenDuke said:
But that is a terrific chart comparing the numbers,
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It's a really stupid chart because too many people on here don't have common sense.

Kareem played about seven more years and about 50% more games than Jordan. Add 50% of production on Jordan's numbers in that graphic and see how close things are.

If you want to be in the argument as best player ever, you better be the absolute best in your era. What was he the best at in his era?

What about how he was some remarkable rebounder? Well, in 20 years of playing, he led the NBA in rebounds just one season. But he was a prolific scorer, right? He led the NBA in scoring just two seasons. In comparison, Shaq led the NBA in scoring two times. Well, Kareem had a really high shooting percentage since he was so dominant on the blocks, right? He led the NBA in field goal percentage just one year. In comparison, Shaq led the NBA in field goal percentage ten times.

Shit, you all better worry about trying to successfully argue that Kareem was better than Shaq before you try more foolish comparisons like Jordan. During Kareem's career per game, he averaged less than one point more than Shaq, less than one rebound than Shaq, less than one more assist than Shaq, and less than one more block than Shaq all while Shaq was the most efficient shooter of his era from the floor.
 
colemag said:
It's a really stupid chart because too many people on here don't have common sense.

Kareem played about seven more years and about 50% more games than Jordan. Add 50% of production on Jordan's numbers in that graphic and see how close things are.

If you want to be in the argument as best player ever, you better be the absolute best in your era. What was he the best at in his era?

What about how he was some remarkable rebounder? Well, in 20 years of playing, he led the NBA in rebounds just one season. But he was a prolific scorer, right? He led the NBA in scoring just two seasons. In comparison, Shaq led the NBA in scoring two times. Well, Kareem had a really high shooting percentage since he was so dominant on the blocks, right? He led the NBA in field goal percentage just one year. In comparison, Shaq led the NBA in field goal percentage ten times.

Shit, you all better worry about trying to successfully argue that Kareem was better than Shaq before you try more foolish comparisons like Jordan. During Kareem's career per game, he averaged less than one point more than Shaq, less than one rebound than Shaq, less than one more assist than Shaq, and less than one more block than Shaq all while Shaq was the most efficient shooter of his era from the floor.
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I wasn't comparing him to Jordan. I was showing that chart to show how good Kareem was. Showing his numbers to compare to Jordan who is the best ever of all players regardless of position. They played two different positions as well.

You don't know what the hell you are talking about. He had the most unstoppable shot in the history of the NBA. The Sky Hook. He was more complete than Shaq.

ESPN has Kareem as the best center of all time. So, do I. I like Shaq, but Kareem is an another level. I would also have Wilt, Russell, and Olajuwon above Shaq.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankCs/ranking-greatest-centers-nba-history

More MVPs than anyone. More career points than anyone. More career Win Shares than anyone. Simply put, there might not be a more complete career than Abdul-Jabbar's. -- Micah Adams, ESPN Stats & Info

His sky hook was the most unstoppable shot in NBA history. And he could play D, pass and hit his free throws, too. -- Rob Peterson, ESPN.com

No player in NBA history has combined peak value with longevity as well as Abdul-Jabbar. It's incredible to think Abdul-Jabbar won Finals MVPs 14 years apart. -- Kevin Pelton, ESPN Insider

While the public often overlooks him in discussions about the game's greatest player, league insiders and legends always mention him when considering who's the G.O.A.T. -- Chris Broussard, ESPN The Magazine
 
I'm not claiming Shaq was better. I was showing that Shaq's numbers were closer to Kareem's than Kareem's were to Jordan's.

My argument was that the graphic was stupid to people with a little common sense. If somebody plays 50% more games, they have a huge advantage when looking at cumulative numbers for a career. It's a horrible measure of what the graphic was attempting to show.

Other than free throw percentage, Shaq's numbers per game were either very close or better than Kareem's . . . end of discussion. Had Kareem been born ten years earlier, Chamberlain would have exposed him as the bitch that he was.
 
Tim Duncan has to be in the top 5 of all time centers, I’d certainly put him there.
Jabarr
Wilt
Shaq
Duncan
Russell
Hakeem
Would be my order
 
All you racists are forgetting all about the Romanian Beast, Gheorghe Muresan.

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And the Great White Hope

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