No tax on overtime
- Thread starter Marshall Jeff
- Start date
This is coming from the anti-deficit party yeah?
Though my main concern is that further incentivizing overtime, especially if corporations don’t pay taxes on it, will cause companies to just work a smaller workforce more hours. This means fewer jobs.
Though my main concern is that further incentivizing overtime, especially if corporations don’t pay taxes on it, will cause companies to just work a smaller workforce more hours. This means fewer jobs.
Is that the way it works now for companies that pay overtime? When demand is raised, they hire less people to work?
I briefly looked but couldn’t find what exactly Trump is proposing (probably because even he doesn’t know and has 0 intention to ever do it) but here’s what I’m talking about. And this comes from direct experience. These are going to be very round numbers just to illustrate a point.
Right now let’s say you’re paying $20 an hour. You’re also paying, say, $10 an hour in benefits. That $10 doesn’t really scale and is based on the assumption the employee works 40 hours. If they work 60 hours, you still only pay $400 for the benefits that week.
So you have 120 hours worth of work to do. You can hire three people. You’ll pay them each $800 in wages ($2400 total), you’ll pay $400 each for their benefits ($1200 total), and you’ll pay something like $180 in payroll taxes total. The total is about $3780
Or you can have 2 people do the work. Now you’re paying time and a half for 40 of the hours, so $2800 total in wages. But you save on benefits and only pay $800. Payroll tax will be about $210. The total is about $3810. So it’s more expensive.
But say you get rid of the payroll tax on the OT. Now only the first $1600 is taxed, and the payroll tax is about $120. The total is $3720. It’s now cheaper to just hire fewer people and have them work more hours.
That’s (arguably, from an ‘intact families’ perspective it’s bad) better for those two people, but the third one is now out of a job. On a macroeconomic scale, fewer people working more hours isn’t usually what you want.
Many just force OT.
Hiring and training cost money. Many hires quit soon after onboarding, the sunk cost of hiring and training is always a gamble.
Benefits cost money.
OT also cost money, but no payroll tax on OT makes it cost less money.
So really, why hire more employees unless you have people quitting from too much OT? Which does happen, burnout causes churn.
H&H explained it well.
On a macroeconomic scale, more people netting more money in their paycheck raises the demand for products and services. Despite the scenario provided, more demand requires more employees. It's all about the productivity of the workers and how much turnover the business is experiencing.
Benefits?? I've been told these poor hourly workers dont get "benefits"??? Time/half...plus benefits?? Damn, who knew? As I stated above, businesses make decisions based on productivity and the turnover you discussed. If productivity falls based on churn and burnout, then business adjusts to alter the higher costs associated with turnover/churn. Demand drives all. More money in people's pockets increases demand.
The two people who kept their job will be out there increasing demand (and inflation) but the one who didn’t won’t be.
Edit: this isn’t a hypothetical. This is an actual conversation I have frequently with the higher ups when we are looking at whether or not to hire. This conversation is happening at businesses across the country.
I thought we didn't have enough workers to fill the jobs we have so that's why we need to import workers. So are you saying Trump has a solution to the need to import foreign workers???
By golly I think you've swerved into something correct for a change!!!
Ky’s dream world: White people working 80 hours a week to make ends meet just so we can deport the Mexicans. Tremendous. You can be the first one we send off to the strawberry fields, you’ll have a wonderful time.
I know it's a conversation happening. I've had the same conversation over the years in my businesses. Never said it wasn't, in fact I alluded to it in my reply to Raoul.
This all depends on how productive the two workers are in their over time.
H&H's dreamworld: not believing an unrealized capital gains tax proposed by K.H. will impact any of these hourly workers pay checks.
That’s a thing but usually for us it’s pretty much the same. But that’s manufacturing on what is effectively an assembly line; something self paced might have different concerns.
To everyone bleating “Race Card!” I’m responding to someone wanting to kick immigrants out.
I’ll let them know. They’ll probably throw a fiesta for being off your shit list (and for your shared hatred of Venezuelans).
This is a "perfect world" reply. I have seen many businesses keep doing the same shit and never changing. They'd rather save a nickel than make a dime. Maybe YOU wouldn't. Most would work you into the grave if they thought it saved a nickel.
My reality is I own several small businesses. The media is not my friend because I don't have a large advertising budget. Wall Street is not my friend for reasons I shouldn't have to explain. The federal government is not my friend because I don't employ lobbyists and pay for influence. The state and local governments aren't my friends because my jobs are in place yet they need to spend my tax dollars to recruit employers under the guise of "economic development" with resulting unfair competition. People like H&H aren't my friends because they don't like shopping locally yet don't hesitate to come by and ask for a donation to their kid's soccer team...
My reality is turnover and training cost money and I need to develop a stable workforce by providing a healthy workplace with above market compensation. My reality is I have to out-work and out-hustle the competition and that my employees buy in and will follow-through and take care of our customers.
My reality is I have employed a business consulting group to improve my employees' and our customers' experiences. My reality is we were the only member of our regional group to have positive employee engagement two years in a row.
My reality is I want to hire the best employees for the job regardless of race or nationality. My reality is one of my senior managers is a black male and one of my up and coming middle managers is an Asian born female.
My reality is I have to do this 7 days a week 365 days a year. There are no days off for me in keeping everyone gainfully employed.
My reality is H&H's nightmare. So get that weak@$$ racist B$ out of my sight until you can say something else that's original and intelligent...
Illegal immigrants not ones who come here the right way.
But you already knew that but couldn't help to break out the democrat playbook of racism.
“Importing foreign workers” sure doesn’t sound like KY was referring to illegal immigrants to me.
That's because you're stupid and closed-minded...
You can't be so blinded for your dislike for me that you can't see 4.8% of the workforce... But I guess I'm wrong again with that assumption...
What we know about unauthorized immigrants living in the U.S.
The unauthorized immigrant population in the U.S. grew to 11 million in 2022, but remained below the peak of 12.2 million in 2007.
www.pewresearch.org
About 8.3 million U.S. workers in 2022 were unauthorized immigrants
I believe typically Mexicans are measured by the truckload. It’s Cubans you measure by the boatload.
Funny, when my forebears came to the US they became Americans... Hmmm... Why is it different now??? That's in your own words btw...
No, just an observation about current choices of words including by you. Glad to see you are actually acknowledging what may be happening now though...👍
A business that is content churning people through it wont be around long or the very least wont grow and will eventually die out. There is no perfect scenario. Only a dynamic economy that allows workers to develop skills and attributes that makes them valuable and able to leave the company they work for and go somewhere else if they are being mistreated or remain unhappy.
You mean like...
Nearly all, if not all, fast food establishments.
Hotels
Childcare institutions
Retail sales (99.9% of all retail workers are part time)
Hospitals
Those type of businesses??
Looks like all these businesses fit the rest of my comment you intentionally omitted.
You lying idiot. The businesses that are content to churn through workers continue to exist and some thrive. The last part of your post is absolutely irrelevant.
My god, you are a rube and a moron. They thrive because they depend on growth to survive. To Grow, they offer opportunities to their employees to grow. How many fast-food companies have grown from a single location to hundreds or thousands of locations. They created a corporate structure that allows the employee to come in at the lowest levels and come up through management or earn an opportunity to buy a franchise? They wouldn't have grown in that way if they were "happy to churn".
Hotels? The same story. Millions of locations around the world, growing the opportunities for folks to come in and develop through management.
Childcare? The same. Retail? Ditto.
Hospitals?? The fastest growing segment of our economy, offering countless opportunities for employee growth? LOL.
You want to talk about businesses that dont grow, and offer no opportunities for employee growth and expansion??? How about cabinet makers in Wayne WV. That is something you are an expert in. Not growing a business and offering employment development. Carry on, rube.
The lying idiot^^^ is now refuting himself.
Admit you're a lying idiot and move on.
Please admit you dont know how economies of scale work and move on, woodshed operator with no employees.
Facts: A business that is content churning people through it wont be around long or the very least wont grow and will eventually die out. There is no perfect scenario. Only a dynamic economy that allows workers to develop skills and attributes that makes them valuable and able to leave the company they work for and go somewhere else if they are being mistreated or remain unhappy.
