Birdsong is much more of a runner than Cato.. Cato learned to run because it was a necessity to the offense since we employ the read option pretty frequently.. However, Birdsong is a more natural runner.. He has a big, strong frame and deceptive speed.. He ran for over 300 yards as a sophomore at JMU where he was sacked more than 30 times and also didn't play in a offense that utilizes the spread in the fashion that we do.. So I look for Birdsong to be much more of a running threat than Cato ever was.
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Birdsong is much more of a runner than Cato.. Cato learned to run because it was a necessity to the offense since we employ the read option pretty frequently.. However, Birdsong is a more natural runner.. He has a big, strong frame and deceptive speed.. He ran for over 300 yards as a sophomore at JMU where he was sacked more than 30 times and also didn't play in a offense that utilizes the spread in the fashion that we do.. So I look for Birdsong to be much more of a running threat than Cato ever was.
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks for being such a class act cal boiler.
I've watched some of JMU's games when Birdsong was a Sophomore and I'd tend to disagree about the running. Birdsong isn't a statue but his running seems to generally be to escape the pocket or some designed runs which he's good at but not going to scare anyone as his 2.4 ypc at JMU can attest.
Cato's running seemed to be at its best when he was escaping the pocket to buy time to make a pass or to run upfield which put a lot more pressure on the defense. He was also an effective passer while on the move. I didn't see any evidence that Birdsong was very accurate when doing the same. While Cato only had a 2.97 ypc average last year, he did have a very good 5.13 ypc average in 2013.
In all honesty, Birdsong seems to be a very similar runner to Purdue's QB, Appleby. Appleby's running stats last year were 198 yards on 61 attempt (3.2 ypc average, 19.8 ypg average) with 5 TDs and a long of 62 yards. Similar sized QBs as well (6'5" 239 lbs).
I don't know that JMU ran that much different of an offense but with a change of OC's Legg may use Birdsong differently, but when he was with JMU, I just didn't see it.
Blame Nike. Purdue fans aren't that excited about the look either. Much better before the change (see below)
That is kind of the style of Johnson though and most big power backs.. It's a 3 yards and a cloud of dust mentality.. Most of the time they're only goi
The yards per carry number that Birdsong put up were mainly due to losing massive yardage via the 31 sacks he took at JMU who had a poor Oline.. He lost a total of 185 yards via the sack.. Remove those numbers and that means he actually ran for 495 yards while carrying the ball 98 times.. That's over a 5 yard average.. So again I have to disagree with your assessment of Birdsong as a runner
Not a bad looking uni. I like the dark numbers.No gold numbers. This is the look you'll see:
Welcome CalBoiler and rbaggie. Like a breath of fresh air having opponent fans visit us that actually have working brain cells. We normally only get the brainless Ear Infection from WVU. Who can not like the name "boilermakers?"...A stout shot of liquor with a chaser of your favorite brewski !!!
Unis are fine...at least they aren't gaudy like most of thar Oregon stuff...the unis rejected by Clown College. We have several years of bad memories of a similar uni worn by Arch Enemy Central Florida...but we were playing them when we didn't have a HC. Hope you guys can make it to the game. Let me be the 1st to welcome you to Huntington, W.Va.
I think we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree then. Using that same rationale, Purdue's QB Appleby ran for 319 yards on 48 carries if you take out sacks. That's a 6.65 ypc average but he, like Birdsong, isn't going to be keeping DCs up at night trying to figure out how to stop him. Players like Mariotta or Braxton Miller, those are the players DCs are worried about.
JMU's O-Line in 2013 wasn't great for sure (although they were in the top half of rushing yards) as they fell to just about the 3rd quadrant in Sacks Allowed (88th of 122). Some of those sacks were on Birdsong though as on occasion he held on to the ball too long or tried to make a play with this feet when the correct would have been just to throw the ball away.
Still that was two years ago and QBs grow and develop as they mature. It will be interesting to see what he looks like when he takes the field as I'm not sure anyone really knows what to expect.
My condolences on the WVU fans (why does their mascot have a gun?)
Wish Purdue's name actually came from the drink but sadly it didn't. Much more mundane origins.
Looking forward to this game. Seem Purdue many times over the years.They will have a lot of good players but not enough to beat the Herd in Huntington. In my opinion this is a deeper and more polished team than last year.In football especially your only as good as the next man up.Go Herd!!!
But that isn't the argument that Birdsong is going to keep DC's up with his legs or that he is Braxton Miller or Marcus Mariotta and believe me I nor anyone else is making it.. The original argument was comparing Cato to Birdsong as a runner and I stand by my statement that Birdsong is a more natural and willing runner than Cato.. For his first two seasons here Cato was basically so adverse to the run you adversed to the run that you would have thought he was allergic.. As a junior he began to add it to his game because it was necessary for our offense to truly function at its highest level as again the read option is a coming play call of ours.. Then as a senior he fully bought into being a ball carrier and became a true dual threat.. Cato had to really be developed as a runner, I believe from what I've seen from Birdsong here and at JMU that he is ahead of where Cato was as a runner at this point in his career.. Plus his bigger frame makes him less of a liability as a ball carrier.. Birdsong is a pocket passer first and that's what we want in our offense but, he certainly is more open to that aspect of the game than Cato.. Plus given the fact that he's been here for going on his second season now there is no reason to think that he hasn't improved his running ability anymore.. Don't know how you perceived anything I said as trying to say he was a guy that would keep DC's up with his legs or that he was Braxton Miller.. That was never the argument and if you thought it was than you missed my point.
I also just noticed that you said Cato's YPC last season was only 2.97 which is totally wrong I think you got his 2013 and 2014 years reversed.. Cato's best season as a runner was 2014 his senior year as he rushed for 482 yards and 8TDs with a 5.1 yard average.
I'll respectively cede the point but I still believe that if I'm a DC, Birdsong running with the ball doesn't trouble me nearly as much as Cato running with the ball.
And, I indeed got the year's reversed on Cato's rushing numbers. The NCAA website has them listed oldest to newest which is opposite of what I would have expected.
Blame Nike. Purdue fans aren't that excited about the look either. Much better before the change (see below)
Definitely not arguing that at all. Haha. Just saying, they look almost exactly like several other teams.
Like I said, blame Nike. "Oh, your colors are Gold & Black? Here you go. Not the right color gold? Sorry, that's the Nike version of Gold and you'll wear it!"
Good decision Feva. These guys seem just looking to make conversation.
If you just flip through games, you could wonder if you're seeing Purdue, Colorado, Army, or possibly one of 30 or so FCS teams. Their uniforms are so bland and generic.
Don't know if
Don't know if you caught your coach's interview from a couple of days ago on si.com (LINKED HERE) but he was asked about the differences between Cato and Birdsong running and this is what he said (my emphasis):
SI: How does having Birdsong at QB instead of Cato change the offense?
DH: Not a lot. He’s a big guy, but he still can run well. He’s different than Cato. Cato was around 6’1” and about 175 pounds, whereas he’s 6’4” or 6’5”, 235, 240 [pounds]. He’s a little more physical. He doesn’t run well enough to what Cato did as far running the football without concern, but we don’t want to try to fit square pegs in round holes. Our offense is built to take advantage of his skills and to do what he does best, but that being said, he can take what the defense gives him and do some of the same things that Cato did.
DH: Not a lot. He’s a big guy, but he still can run well. He’s different than Cato. Cato was around 6’1” and about 175 pounds, whereas he’s 6’4” or 6’5”, 235, 240 [pounds]. He’s a little more physical. He doesn’t run well enough to what Cato did as far running the football without concern, but we don’t want to try to fit square pegs in round holes. Our offense is built to take advantage of his skills and to do what he does best, but that being said, he can take what the defense gives him and do some of the same things that Cato did.
Cato mostly ran when he was pressured out of the pocket. There weren't many designed runs for him. There was a red zone package for him but it was still ran out of the shotgun. He excelled at moving the pocket and keeping a play alive long enough to find a man downfield. He was deadly accurate to about 20-25 yards. The farther downfield the less velocity he had on passes and his accuracy dropped off.
My impression of Birdsong is that his stature will allow him to hold in the pocket longer and he has the arm strength to reach out with accuracy a little farther than Cato. His stature also gives us an option in the red zone, particularly at the goal line, that we haven't had in a few years.
The biggest question is Birdsong's command of the offense. What kind of decision maker is he going to be. I think, at least at the beginning of the season, the Herd is going to see most defenses try to stack the box and force a rookie QB to beat them.
My impression of Birdsong is that his stature will allow him to hold in the pocket longer and he has the arm strength to reach out with accuracy a little farther than Cato. His stature also gives us an option in the red zone, particularly at the goal line, that we haven't had in a few years.
The biggest question is Birdsong's command of the offense. What kind of decision maker is he going to be. I think, at least at the beginning of the season, the Herd is going to see most defenses try to stack the box and force a rookie QB to beat them.
From what I noticed about Purdue defense is they don't really disguise blitzs or coverages and will play pretty straight up. Also their top pass rusher is suspended for the game
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@CalBoiler here is a good channel to check out a few more highlights from the Herd's 2014 season.
DUNKMEDIA youtube channel
DUNKMEDIA youtube channel
Cato's "runs" were almost all scrambles to avoid pressure/sacks and he did so well on those runs because he had a great instinct for scrambling the right direction at the right time (even though every time it terrified me due to his small stature - one good hit is all it would've taken on him).
That is the good thing with Cato, he learned how to avoid those hits. I don't think in his 4 years here he took a hard shot from anyone
That's true, and anytime he took a moderately solid hit, he popped RIGHT back up so quickly. I noticed him doing that last week in his CFL game where he got sacked a ton of times. Always pops back up super quick.
Another boiler here interested in the upcoming season opener. Birdsong reminds me a lot of Curtis Painter who played under Bill Legg while he was OC under Tiller. Big, strong arm, can run. Painter went on to put up very good numbers in Legg's offense and hopefully Birdsong turns out better for Marshall.
Anyways, had some questions:
1: It will be 1 year and 10 months since he has played in a game prior to suiting up against Purdue. Are QBs live for tackling at Marshall or are they always off limits? Has it been a while since he has been hit /hurried/pressured/knocked down?
2) I know in runblocking, Marshall is solid, but how does your pass protection look this year? Cato was insanely awesome at scrambling, extending plays and gaining yards last year. Did his elusiveness negate protection issues last year? Any concerns with protecting Birdsong this year? Not that Purdue has a fearsome pass rush this year, but just a question.
Thanks in advance.
A. 1: QBs are not live. He ran the scout team last year but as far as I know had no contact.
A. 2: In 451 attempts last season Cato was sacked 21 times. He would move the pocket to buy time for his WRs more so than to elude a pass rush. The Herd returns 3 starters on the offensive line including All C-USA 1st Team Offensive Tackle Clint Van Horn. New starters at left tackle and right guard. The center was a guard last season.
Cool. Thanks for the answers. There's no way we stay close in a shootout, so it looks like our best chance of winning is to 1) get to Birdsong early and often, rattle him a bit and disrupt his timing. He might have some rust and jitters, at least in the 1st quarter of his first game in 2 years (First ever FBS game). We can't let him get settled, hang out and pick apart our defense with those talented receivers. and 2) control the clock with the run game, play keep-away and leave that Herd offense on the sideline. I'm conceding that your running game will be successful against our D and I'm not expecting alot from our passing offense. Here's to hoping for a slow, grinding, game of attrition where our depth in the trenches wins the day.
Here's the thing about our offense, the QB is given the flexibility to make the call at the line; run, pass, keep, on every play. The reason you see Johnson have big runs on a 6 man box is because we will almost always run into a six man box. The reason we see a six man box is because we effectively use our 3 receivers and tight end. If you go with an 8 man box you better have a LB that is very good in coverage because we exploit the seam very well. Also, playing man on McManus is not a smart move. He's a WR that benches 450 and has a 30+ vertical. He's too strong to man. Think Anquan Bolden.
I honestly think you have to play cover two and mix in run blitzes to stop us. Ohio had success a few years back by showing 6 but really dedicating 8 to the run at the snap. They did a good job in disguising.
Bottom line is that we have averaged 40 plus per game for three years. If you want to win you will need to score more than 35 and have a good day defensively. I just don't know if Purdue has the weapons to score that many. Best chance is turnovers and a short field and you have to get TDs when you make it to the redzone. FGs won't cut it.
I honestly think you have to play cover two and mix in run blitzes to stop us. Ohio had success a few years back by showing 6 but really dedicating 8 to the run at the snap. They did a good job in disguising.
Bottom line is that we have averaged 40 plus per game for three years. If you want to win you will need to score more than 35 and have a good day defensively. I just don't know if Purdue has the weapons to score that many. Best chance is turnovers and a short field and you have to get TDs when you make it to the redzone. FGs won't cut it.
Do we know if the coaching staff will be giving Birdsong this same amount of flexibility and responsibility in game 1? Cato was great at this, but he was also a starter for almost every game of his career at Marshall. I could see this being plausible, given that Birdsong ran the scout team (i.e. our opponents') offense every week last season, but I'll be interested to see if we go this way with him from day 1.
I don't think your offense will have a completely seamless transition from Cato to Birdsong this year, at least not in game 1. I still think our best chance is in really disrupting Birdsong right from the start. If there is a weakness in your offense, its the brand new QB who hasn't played in a game in almost two years. We have to make it hard on him to get settled, make him think too much, make him uncomfortable. If he's unmolested, he's going to shred us up. From our practice reports, our D is getting significant pressure with multiple-look blitz packages this camp. Hopefully we can confuse Birdsong in his first ever FBS start.
Either way, I'll be in Huntington next month cheering on our boilers! Good luck and thanks for the hospitality!
I think Birdsong will be treated as a game manager early in the season.. He'll throw when we have to and take an occasional shot down field to keep teams honest. But, I really believe we'll ride the run game and our defense through the early portion of the season. If you can stop the the run and force us in to more passing situations (thus giving you more opportunity to disrupt Birdsong and take advantage of his rust/inexperience at this level) than I think that is your best chance to win.. But, if the run game gets going than I don't expect Birdsong to throw it more than 15 time in game 1.
Thanks for the link. I'll give that a look when I can although I really prefer to watch the entire game as the highlights don't always give a good feel for down/distance and in-game situations. YouTube has been a decent source (Found the full JMU-Delware game to watch Birdsong play in 2013).
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