RPI

[ohio herd]

when(yr) did we start using RPI to determine how good a school is? I don't understand the whole thing. To me there are teams with good RPI that clearly aren't all that good IMO. For example, Toledo dump is at #75. They lost to us but we are ranked #118 according to realtimerpi. There best win is over lil miami who comes in at #132. I mean at least we have a win over MTSU who is at #23.We also have a win over #75 Toledo dump. We also have a close loss against #2 Xavier. Someone explain this to me. Makes no sense to me.

 

[dangerousdaneerfan]

when(yr) did we start using RPI to determine how good a school is? I don't understand the whole thing. To me there are teams with good RPI that clearly aren't all that good IMO. For example, Toledo dump is at #75. They lost to us but we are ranked #118 according to realtimerpi. There best win is over lil miami who comes in at #132. I mean at least we have a win over MTSU who is at #23.We also have a win over #75 Toledo dump. We also have a close loss against #2 Xavier. Someone explain this to me. Makes no sense to me.

As I understand it, the good loss at XU is countered by the horrible loss at Morehead. The home win vs Concord is not counted towards your RPI. It does not hurt, but it does not help either. Outside of Toledo, Marshall has not beaten anyone with a winning record on the road.

 

[HerdFan73]

As I understand it, the good loss at XU is countered by the horrible loss at Morehead. The home win vs Concord is not counted towards your RPI. It does not hurt, but it does not help either. Outside of Toledo, Marshall has not beaten anyone with a winning record on the road.

Margin of defeat (or victory), does not have an impact on RPI.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Our SOS is 214 and we have 19 D1 wins.

Toledo’s SOS is 119 and they have 19 D1 wins.

Our SOS will get a little bump because we’re likely to play MTSU twice more but that’s really the only difference between us and them.

 

[herdalicious]

We have a good record, but our conference is pretty terrible, and we're 1-4 against the top three teams in it.

I love this team, but I think that RPI is fair. I honestly thought we'd be lucky to crack 10 wins, given all the talent we had to replace this year, and the generally untested nature of what was coming in. People are worried about star talent moving on, but there's a base in place for the first time in the D'Antoni era that makes me think we'll get progressively better the next 2-3 years.

This year is not our marquee year, but next year has a lot of promise, even if Elmore moves on.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

but our conference is pretty terrible

The top is very good but the bottom is beyond atrocious.

Charlotte with an RPI in 300s is a joke. They should be one of the better basketball programs in the conference. UTEP, too.

If those two got their acts together the conference would be much improved RPI wise.

 

[Sash19]

Our SOS is 214 and we have 19 D1 wins.

Toledo’s SOS is 119 and they have 19 D1 wins.

Our SOS will get a little bump because we’re likely to play MTSU twice more but that’s really the only difference between us and them.

The Kenpom rankings have these two even closer than the RPI...Toledo is 117 and Marshall is 127......

 

[ohio herd]

Does anyone know when they created and started using RPI and SOS? It seems that years ago they used the eye test and tradition, just curious because it seems to me that it hurts a great team in a conference like C-USA and helps average teams in a good conference like the ACC. Just my view, not saying I am right.

 

[ohio herd]

As I understand it, the good loss at XU is countered by the horrible loss at Morehead. The home win vs Concord is not counted towards your RPI. It does not hurt, but it does not help either. Outside of Toledo, Marshall has not beaten anyone with a winning record on the road.

true Dan, the loss to Morehead Stae doomed the Herd from any post season invite from NCAA or NIT short of winning the conference title or tourney.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Does anyone know when they created and started using RPI and SOS? It seems that years ago they used the eye test and tradition, just curious because it seems to me that it hurts a great team in a conference like C-USA and helps average teams in a good conference like the ACC. Just my view, not saying I am right.

What great teams in CUSA are being hurt by the RPI?

 

[ohio herd]

What great teams in CUSA are being hurt by the RPI?

ha ha maybe the use of the word "great" is too strong. It seems that if you are from a mid major the margin of error is slim. It seems that average teams in power conference are helped as they get into conference play due to RPI. Take Temple as an example. They are 16-12. They play a SOS of #9. They have one big win over Wichita State. They have a RPI of #40. Does this mean we should schedule only ranked teams even if we lose to them? What if we would have upset Xavier? They are way better than us, we just had a opportunity to upset them that night. Does Temple having one quality win justify such a high RPI? IDK I am not convinced they would be any higher than 4th in C-USA this year. Once again I am not saying I am right on this but when I look at stats like this I just SMH cause it doesn't add up in my book.

 

[RhinoD]

RPI can be tough on mid-majors because its impossible to know what other mid-majors will be good more than a year in advance... If you schedule Moorehead State, Akron and Chattanooga (three programs that are usually pretty good) and they turn out to all be garbage, like this year, it hurts. Especially if you lose to one or more of them.

If you play in the ACC, Big12, Big East, etc. you can rely on the fact that there will be a number of good teams in your conference. We don't have such a luxury in CUSA... Outside of MTSU, WKU, ODU and Marshall – CUSA ranges from below average to absolutely awful and the awful list is a lot longer than below average (Rice, Charlotte, UTEP, Southern Miss, FAU, FIU all suck).

 

[marshallisqbu]

Just shows that if the golden retriever Dan D’antoni wants to make the NCAA tournament he is going to have to either win the cusa tournament or schedule way harder teams.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Take Temple as an example. They are 16-12. They play a SOS of #9. They have one big win over Wichita State. They have a RPI of #40.

Temple also has wins over RPI #7 Auburn and RPI #10 Clemson.

They also played RPI #3 Villanova.

That said, even with those nice wins, Temple isn't anywhere close to getting an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament.

The RPI is a piece of the pie when looking at a school's resume. There has to be more. Temple is an excellent example of exactly that.

 

[RhinoD]

ha ha maybe the use of the word "great" is too strong. It seems that if you are from a mid major the margin of error is slim. It seems that average teams in power conference are helped as they get into conference play due to RPI. Take Temple as an example. They are 16-12. They play a SOS of #9. They have one big win over Wichita State. They have a RPI of #40. Does this mean we should schedule only ranked teams even if we lose to them? What if we would have upset Xavier? They are way better than us, we just had a opportunity to upset them that night. Does Temple having one quality win justify such a high RPI? IDK I am not convinced they would be any higher than 4th in C-USA this year. Once again I am not saying I am right on this but when I look at stats like this I just SMH cause it doesn't add up in my book.

You are way off on Temple... One good win?... They beat #14 Auburn and #18 Clemson in the non-conference and also logged a win over South Carolina. They lost to #4 Villanova. Overall, they have played 10 games against ranked opponents this year. Not to mention the Big East is probably going to send 3 teams to the NCAA tournament.

Temple's #9 SOS is legit and their RPI probably isn't that far off.

By comparison, we have played 1 ranked team all year (and will get a second at MTSU).

 

[All4TheHerd]

RPI?

Its like 6 Degrees of Kevin Bacon for jocks...

 

[AllEers6]

true Dan, the loss to Morehead Stae doomed the Herd from any post season invite from NCAA or NIT short of winning the conference title or tourney.

Also cant be playing Concord

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

Just shows that if the golden retriever Dan D’antoni wants to make the NCAA tournament he is going to have to either win the cusa tournament or schedule way harder teams.

GOLDEN RETRIEVER Dan....has a nice ring about it. Do you think the Bull Dog [D H] likes this year's team? LOL...he he he he Of course our AD [M H] has a lot to do with scheduling.

Zilla22

 

[Sash19]

GOLDEN RETRIEVER Dan....has a nice ring about it. Do you think the Bull Dog [D H] likes this year's team? LOL...he he he he Of course our AD [M H] has a lot to do with scheduling.

Zilla22

No team that has a weaker conference and post season (NCAA or NIT) aspirations can nor should ever schedule a non D1 team. That takes a game off your schedule thus one less opportunity to showcase your team in a game that actually matters. Some teams still play non D1 schools (South Carolina) but they also play in a power league where it wont kill them plus it is a "mandated" game. Marshall has no business playing Concord or any other WV school not named WVU.

 

[Herdmeister]

No team that has a weaker conference and post season (NCAA or NIT) aspirations can nor should ever schedule a non D1 team. That takes a game off your schedule thus one less opportunity to showcase your team in a game that actually matters. Some teams still play non D1 schools (South Carolina) but they also play in a power league where it wont kill them plus it is a "mandated" game. Marshall has no business playing Concord or any other WV school not named WVU.

I wish you could have been in town and done what Jeff O'Malley and Mark Cline couldn't for this years schedule. Funny you mentioned South Carolina. Marshall tried to go there for a game along with Clemson, Ohio State and others.
Danny hates playing and D2 buy there were no options. Next year is full so that isn't a problem.

 

[Herdmeister]

Just shows that if the golden retriever Dan D’antoni wants to make the NCAA tournament he is going to have to either win the cusa tournament or schedule way harder teams.

Next year has Texas A&M, Maryland and Memphis.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

Next year has Texas A&M, Maryland and Memphis.

All three were down this year and will miss the tournament. Hope they rebound next year.

 

[Jeepers Creepers]

All three were down this year and will miss the tournament. Hope they rebound next year.

I think Texas A&M will make the NCAA tourney this year.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

I think Texas A&M will make the NCAA tourney this year.

You're right, they will.

 

[ohio herd]

You are way off on Temple... One good win?... They beat #14 Auburn and #18 Clemson in the non-conference and also logged a win over South Carolina. They lost to #4 Villanova. Overall, they have played 10 games against ranked opponents this year. Not to mention the Big East is probably going to send 3 teams to the NCAA tournament.

Temple's #9 SOS is legit and their RPI probably isn't that far off.

By comparison, we have played 1 ranked team all year (and will get a second at MTSU).

I guess so, I must have looked at that without my readers on! Anyway bad choice. Lets try again. How about Buffalo from the MAC? They have a RPI of #37. Their best win is over Toledo dump. They are 22-8. How do they rank so high in RPI? They have a decent SOS but have lost every game to ranked teams. Does playing a hard SOS even if you loss prove you are a good team? Just looking for some discussion here not trying to argue.

 

[Sash19]

No team that has a weaker conference and post season (NCAA or NIT) aspirations can nor should ever schedule a non D1 team. That takes a game off your schedule thus one less opportunity to showcase your team in a game that actually matters. Some teams still play non D1 schools (South Carolina) but they also play in a power league where it wont kill them plus it is a "mandated" game. Marshall has no business playing Concord or any other WV school not named WVU.

I wish you could have been in town and done what Jeff O'Malley and Mark Cline couldn't for this years schedule. Funny you mentioned South Carolina. Marshall tried to go there for a game along with Clemson, Ohio State and others.
Danny hates playing and D2 buy there were no options. Next year is full so that isn't a problem.

Don’t blame me for Mark and Jeff’s inability to find 1 more D1 game.....its not like this is the first year that it happened.

 

[jocktalker]

Scheduling non-conference games is probably the most difficult job for a mid-major Division 1 program not just looking for a payday. Truthfully, it's difficult for many high Division 1 schools who want to schedule the best OOC schools possible to earn a high a seed in the NCAA tourney.

 

[Sash19]

Scheduling non-conference games is probably the most difficult job for a mid-major Division 1 program not just looking for a payday. Truthfully, it's difficult for many high Division 1 schools who want to schedule the best OOC schools possible to earn a high a seed in the NCAA tourney.

There are 351 d1 schools that play basketball. While all are not an option, there is a reason that the NCAA tourney doesn’t count non d1 games towards a team’s record. Stop looking for a pay day game and play someone you can beat. Plenty of good schools that Marshall could contact (no promised game) to gauge interest. It’s a form of prospecting. Calls becomes relationships which become games. It’s not easy but it does take effort.

 

[bbneutralfan]

But meister none are at home are they?

 

[bbneutralfan]

We do not need D2, D3, or NAIAs period.

 

[jocktalker]

There are 351 d1 schools that play basketball. While all are not an option, there is a reason that the NCAA tourney doesn’t count non d1 games towards a team’s record. Stop looking for a pay day game and play someone you can beat. Plenty of good schools that Marshall could contact (no promised game) to gauge interest. It’s a form of prospecting. Calls becomes relationships which become games. It’s not easy but it does take effort.

I hear what you're saying but consider this. Scratch the bottom third. Schools with RPIs in the 250-350 range don't help your SOS or RPI. Predicting schools in the 150-250 range are better but many of those programs are also looking for a big payday to help fund athletic departments.

So let's look at the top 150 schools. The Top 50-70 schools are looking for TV games (real TV games) and/or resume builders. The next group are looking for resume builders, TV games or big time pre-season tournaments.

Marshall may be attractive to some who believe the Herd will win CUSA. That's good for the RPI. Otherwise, it's a risky game to play on the road. Lose it and fans would not be happy.

Like I said, scheduling is difficult until you reach a certain level national exposure and respect. Reaching that level for a mid-manor is extremely difficult. Just my opinion.

 

[oldeherd]

But meister none are at home are they?

That's it in a nutshell, bbneutralfan. Until the Herd can find some sustained success, including post season, it probably won't change. Until then, apparently Hamrick will not even entertain trying to get a "major" opponent at a neutral site like the soon to be reopened and renovated Charleston Civic Center.

This season's schedule is somewhat an anomaly. ALL 3 Ohio Valley Schools, Morehead, EKU and UT-Martin have lost 20 or more games this season. Ditto for UT-Chatty. And in Conference Rice and Charlotte are in the same boat. Southern and NC Central probably will finish at .500 or below. Traditionally strong opponents like Akron and Ohio are both having uncharacteristic down years, well under .500. Even Wm. & Mary has cooled off somewhat since our game there, and has 9 losses or so. And Illinois, our other "name" opponent has a losing record and is near the bottom of the Big Ten.

Next year's team has to (1) get off to a stronger start, especially on the road. Can't be giving away early games against the likes of UT-C, EKU, or even Ohio U. and Akron, all of whom we possibly will play on the road next year. (2) And in year 5 of the DD regime, MU has to find a way to get a signature win or so against one of the Big Boys that we will play. Last season, we were stomped by a very bad Ohio State team, found a way to make a so-so disappointing Pitt team look like Golden State offensively, and lost a close, winnable game at Cincinnati. That stuff has to STOP!!.

To quote the Nature Boy, "If you want to Be The Man, you have to BEAT THE MAN".

So let's start by winning down in Birmingham on Thursday Night! GO
HERD!!

 

[Herdmeister]

But meister none are at home are they?

No. Danny just wants to play better people. Gonzaga and Washington State road trip year after next

 

[Herdmeister]

There are 351 d1 schools that play basketball. While all are not an option, there is a reason that the NCAA tourney doesn’t count non d1 games towards a team’s record. Stop looking for a pay day game and play someone you can beat. Plenty of good schools that Marshall could contact (no promised game) to gauge interest. It’s a form of prospecting. Calls becomes relationships which become games. It’s not easy but it does take effort.

Marshall was open to play ANYONE/ANYWHERE this year.

 

[Sash19]

Marshall was open to play ANYONE/ANYWHERE this year.

That's great to say but just words.....If they dont have better connections then they need to continue to build them. No one is going to call them so they better be calling everyone......

 

[RhinoD]

I guess so, I must have looked at that without my readers on! Anyway bad choice. Lets try again. How about Buffalo from the MAC? They have a RPI of #37. Their best win is over Toledo dump. They are 22-8. How do they rank so high in RPI? They have a decent SOS but have lost every game to ranked teams. Does playing a hard SOS even if you loss prove you are a good team? Just looking for some discussion here not trying to argue.

I wouldn't say it proves you are a good team... I will say, playing better schools, even if you lose, is factored into RPI. That's part of the reason RPI exists is to factor in SOS along with win loss record and the strength of the respective conference you play in.

In Buffalo's case (and I agree that they are probably a little high in RPI)... They have 22 wins, are in first place in their conference, and they played a tough non-league schedule including Syracuse, Texas A/M, Cincy and St. Bonaventure. If Marshall had played UB's non-conference schedule and came away with 22 wins, I am confident we would be in the top 40 in RPI as well.

The games that are killing us...

UT Martin - 10-21
Southern - 14-15
Morehead State - 8-21
Illinois - 14-17 (Illinois is awful and thus not a 'good' loss)
NC Central - 14-15
Akron - 12-17
Ohio - 13-16
Chattanooga - 9-22
Eastern Kentucky - 11-20
Rice - 6-22
Charlotte (twice) - 5-23
UTEP - 10-18
Southern Miss - 13-17
FAU - 12-16

Literally, half our schedule (15 games) are garbage teams... And thats being nice and not including FIU or North Texas (who are also below .500) or the Concord game which doesn't count toward RPI. Looking at that schedule in hindsight, we are fortunate to be in the top 150 in RPI even with 20 wins.

 

[ohio herd]

I wouldn't say it proves you are a good team... I will say, playing better schools, even if you lose, is factored into RPI. That's part of the reason RPI exists is to factor in SOS along with win loss record and the strength of the respective conference you play in.

In Buffalo's case (and I agree that they are probably a little high in RPI)... They have 22 wins, are in first place in their conference, and they played a tough non-league schedule including Syracuse, Texas A/M, Cincy and St. Bonaventure. If Marshall had played UB's non-conference schedule and came away with 22 wins, I am confident we would be in the top 40 in RPI as well.

The games that are killing us...

UT Martin - 10-21
Southern - 14-15
Morehead State - 8-21
Illinois - 14-17 (Illinois is awful and thus not a 'good' loss)
NC Central - 14-15
Akron - 12-17
Ohio - 13-16
Chattanooga - 9-22
Eastern Kentucky - 11-20
Rice - 6-22
Charlotte (twice) - 5-23
UTEP - 10-18
Southern Miss - 13-17
FAU - 12-16

Literally, half our schedule (15 games) are garbage teams... And thats being nice and not including FIU or North Texas (who are also below .500) or the Concord game which doesn't count toward RPI. Looking at that schedule in hindsight, we are fortunate to be in the top 150 in RPI even with 20 wins.

true and what hurts is that 3 of those teams are usually good, Ohio, Akron and U T Chatt all down this year.