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School Shooting Data for Fans of Science

no, that's the effect of you attempting to make everything an argument. i was simply stating facts and asked you for a solution. as i figured, though, you go off on another tangent and avoided providing any sort of a solution. nothing new here . . .

You did exactly what I said you did. You said that having one entry point isn't too much of an inconvenience. You then went on to claim that the schools in your county have that . . . only for guests though. The teachers and others can use multiple points of entry . . . because it is too much of an inconvenience.

My job isn't to create a solution. But here's one: gun regulations. With approximately 400 guns in this country, the access to them is far too easy. As a nation, we have shown the inability to effectively accept this responsibility. If that means we have to greatly strengthen gun regulations in the immediate future in order to reduce the number of available guns, access to them, lax of laws/sentences on them, etc., then so be it.
 
You did exactly what I said you did. You said that having one entry point isn't too much of an inconvenience. You then went on to claim that the schools in your county have that . . . only for guests though. The teachers and others can use multiple points of entry . . . because it is too much of an inconvenience.

My job isn't to create a solution. But here's one: gun regulations. With approximately 400 guns in this country, the access to them is far too easy. As a nation, we have shown the inability to effectively accept this responsibility. If that means we have to greatly strengthen gun regulations in the immediate future in order to reduce the number of available guns, access to them, lax of laws/sentences on them, etc., then so be it.
no, i didn't say that. reading comprehension sure must be a bitch for you today. i said that to say that doesn't really matter. in other words, fvck convenience, it's about safety.

neither is your job to gripe, bitch, complain, and argue about everything, but you have no problem doing so.

does everything have to be an argument for you?
 
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Yes, that is to protect students from outsiders. It isn't to protect students from students. If you're already inside, as students have access to be, they can easily work around a single entry point system by the way I stated.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Just pointing out how things are handled in my state.

I tend to agree that a single entry point with metal detectors isn't a solution. Way too easy to bypass as you pointed out. I just don't know what practical solutions there are to educe these types of events.
 
no, i didn't say that. reading comprehension sure must be a bitch for you today. i said that to say that doesn't really matter. in other words, fvck convenience, it's about safety.

Clearly, it does matter, because the examples you tried arguing used single entry (which really didn't) also allow people to use other entries. Why do they do that? Almost assuredly because of the convenience factor.

You can't argue that your schools all have single entry that work, then claim they really don't have single entry, then claim the convenience factor "doesn't matter" when your own examples show that it does.

Perhaps you can try using some examples that actually follow what you claim they do.

I just don't know what practical solutions there are to educe these types of events.

It's called "gun reform." You should look into it.
 
Clearly, it does matter, because the examples you tried arguing used single entry (which really didn't) also allow people to use other entries. Why do they do that? Almost assuredly because of the convenience factor.

You can't argue that your schools all have single entry that work, then claim they really don't have single entry, then claim the convenience factor "doesn't matter" when your own examples show that it does.

Perhaps you can try using some examples that actually follow what you claim they do.



It's called "gun reform." You should look into it.
again, i wasn't arguing, that's your forte'.
 
Your post is hilarious and shows your stupidity. I’ll not explain your stupidity to you but I’ll give you a hint to help you figure it out.

So using your rationale, 1 in 11 million odds of death by airplane, coupled with 350 million population means almost 32 people should die on average per year.

You might want to also consider average life expectancy in your analysis.

Furthermore, gun deaths are different than deaths in mass shootings. The odds associated with gun deaths is even higher than mass shootings.

Why do you post when it constantly displays your stupidity?
This post furthers your stupidity:

1) Your initial post provided the chances to be killed in an airplane in any given year and compared it to the chances to be killed by mass shootings in any given lifetime. You have no idea what you are doing.

2) His rationale was absolutely how you determine chances by the general population, here are the stats from the FAA:

Total U.S. Accidents

2014: 138 accidents, 21 fatal accidents, 37 fatalities
2015: 121 accidents, 17 fatal accidents, 28 fatalities
2016: 108 accidents, 17 fatal accidents, 29 fatalities

From 2014-2016 the US averaged somewhere in the neighborhood of 31 fatalities per year. See how that 1 in 11 million works yet?

3) The whole point of his post was that gun deaths include deaths in mass shootings and since their rate of incidence was far lower than 1 in 11k, your numbers for mass shooting deaths couldn't be true (because it would have to be an even lower number). That is because he presumed they were annual numbers, because the comparative number (deaths in airplane crashes) was an annual number.
 
I agree with you. Don't you hate it when people ignore the experts on an issue in lieu of believing whatever aligns with their political agenda. Take climate change for instance...
I have stated there is climate change. What I doubt is the totality of what man's role is in that. What I have also stated is the patterns are cyclical.

I can also state that security firms and consultants stand to make a fair amount of money on securing schools or providing research or studies for schools. The same can be said for global warming experts.
 
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Wait: Did you just spend a paragraph trying to argue against my position, then agree with what I said by saying that the schools you reference allow teachers to use multiple entry points and students to use "one, two at most"?

Yeah, those aren't cases of a single entry point, and that's exactly my point. Twenty years ago, my high school only allowed students to enter in one of two entrances: the main front entrance or the main back entrance. It had nothing to do with students bringing in guns. It had to do with there being two main parking lots students could park in, as well as where the buses dropped students off at the school.



And it's simply not feasible, which is what your own source just admitted for many buildings. Tell me, how do you "regular access at the campus level" if all entrances can't be regulated like your article claims? Exit doors cannot be locked from the inside. It's illegal and a huge safety issue. Even with a single entry system, there has to be numerous exit areas that can easily be used as entrances. You simply cannot have an officer at every single exit. Cameras and an alarm at each exit door won't be sufficient; it takes less than ten seconds for somebody to open the exit door (the alarm sounds), grab a bag that or gun that had been dropped there three minutes earlier, and be back inside.

Are you going to make every single exit a double exit system at every single school. Those would be like the ones at airports - as you exit, the first door opens. The second door to leave the building won't open until the first one closes. At that point, you're basically in purgatory in between both doors. As you proceed to leave, the second door opens after the first one closes. You couldn't bring an outdoor weapon in that way. But the cost to do that to every single door in every single school? Good luck with that.



Yes, exactly like I just said. Care to consider the cost of doing that at more than a dozen exits in a school?



Then, that isn't a single entry system. My god, you don't even know what you're arguing.



That isn't the case at all. You're too stupid to be able to read what your own source is saying. E.T. quoted it for you. Your own source says that if there are other secondary points of entry that are easily defeated, which I have shown the feasibility of happening being quite high, it renders the single entry point useless.

That's exactly my point. Unless you want an armed guard at every exit (extremely expensive) or unless you want a double door entry system (which I went over is also extremely expensive), your single entry point does very little help. Hell, your own source admits that!



Yes, that is to protect students from outsiders. It isn't to protect students from students. If you're already inside, as students have access to be, they can easily work around a single entry point system by the way I stated.



You aren't very bright. I wonder if you have ever used logic in your life. Ever been to places like Langley, the Pentagon, or the White House? I have. Those places aren't nearly as concerned about their own attacking their own. Their systems are in place to defend their own from outsiders.

You don't have to go to a metal detector to get into Langley. You can drive your own car in, park in the parking lot, and enter the Bush Center (the headquarters) without any metal detector (unless it has changed in the last seven years). Now, getting to that point is a bit more difficult if you aren't a regular employee there - you drive through a checkpoint with bomb sniffing dogs and heavily armed guards, have to show your ID, and have to match their guest list at the gate. But if you're on the list, it is very easy to bring a gun(s) inside the headquarters.

Why do they make it like this? Because they aren't worried about their own attacking their own. Their goal is to defend their own from outsiders. If you're on the list, you are considered one of their own. At that point, you have far less security to get through than getting on a plane.

That's different than the mass shootings at schools where it has been "inside jobs."

The White House, Pentagon, and Langley aren't as concerned about one of their own giving access to an outsider to come in and attack. They all have decent security measures surrounding their complexes to make it tough, but it isn't impossible because that isn't their main focus.

At schools, it would be one of their own they are worried about - somebody who is granted access and then can use another entry to bring in the security issue.

I am trying to offer ideas on the problem instead of just blurting out, "ban guns"!

There are things they can do to improved safety in schools. They have already done so with things like active shooter drills, refining response techniques, etc.

Nothing is going to be perfect. And yes, there is some cost. But, the schools are soft targets.

Saying ban guns is the emotional easy answer that is really impossible.
 
There are things they can do to improved safety in schools. They have already done so with things like active shooter drills, refining response techniques, etc.

Yeah, and don't forget the mini-baseball bats one district gave its teachers, or the bullet-proof backpacks one company is marketing, or closing the lights off in the classroom and pretending nobody is in there during a shooting.

Fvck fixing the problem, we should just come up with comically bad ways to pretend we are mitigating it.

Saying ban guns is the emotional easy answer that is really impossible.

Oh, Chicken Little. Nobody is banning guns. You still think "gun reform" means banning guns after all of this time?
 
I am trying to offer ideas on the problem instead of just blurting out, "ban guns"!

There are things they can do to improved safety in schools. They have already done so with things like active shooter drills, refining response techniques, etc.

Nothing is going to be perfect. And yes, there is some cost. But, the schools are soft targets.

Saying ban guns is the emotional easy answer that is really impossible.
Sure it’s a combo of both. Lots of people shouldn’t have guns. And schools should be secured. Imagine how effective that would be.
 
This is one of the reasons you can't have a legitimate discussion about guns. Somebody say "gun regulation" and you always hear "ban guns".
Well when a democrat congressman threatens to nuke people for not turning in their guns how are you supposed to take it
 
Yeah, and don't forget the mini-baseball bats one district gave its teachers, or the bullet-proof backpacks one company is marketing, or closing the lights off in the classroom and pretending nobody is in there during a shooting.

Fvck fixing the problem, we should just come up with comically bad ways to pretend we are mitigating it.



Oh, Chicken Little. Nobody is banning guns. You still think "gun reform" means banning guns after all of this time?

Same as liberals hearing ban abortion.

of course there are those that would ban guns.
 
This post furthers your stupidity:

1) Your initial post provided the chances to be killed in an airplane in any given year and compared it to the chances to be killed by mass shootings in any given lifetime. You have no idea what you are doing.

Here is my post.

The odds of dying in an airplane crash are 1 in 11 million.

The odds of dying in a mass shooting are 1 in 11,000.

If you can find where I said in any given year in that post, I’ll kiss your ass.

The statistic of dying in a plane crash is implied over a lifetime. Likewise, with the odds of dying in a mass shooting. They are human mortality statistics.
 
Same as liberals hearing ban abortion.

What? Banning abortions is a mainstream cry from you deplorables. Banning all guns is on the fringe of liberals. The majority of liberals don't want all guns banned.

:rolleyes:

You just can't help being a dick, can you?

Well, I can, but what fun would that be?

What else do you expect me to say? You said you didn't know any practical ways to reduce mass shootings in places like schools. This is what is so baffling - educated people, tier three or not, can't see that the issue is the plethora of guns and ease of access to them. It's why Herdman and Raoul have avoided my repeated question about the mental healthcare/murder rate/guns question compared with our peer countries.

There are crazies in all of our peer countries. There are mental healthcare deficiencies in all of those countries just like in the U.S. Our cultures and economies are similar. Yet we have an significantly higher murder rate than all of them. The only reasonable difference related is the amount of guns and ease of access we have compared to every single one of them.

Now, tell me, what do you think the issue is? Don't say "gun reform," because that seems to make one a dick.
 
I'm all for it so long as these proposed reforms can be praying implemented and do not violate the Constitution. What gun reforms do you propose? Let's hear your solutions.
 
Yep, let's hear your solutions and how would they stop school shootings. That is the topic.
 
You asked the question. You don't understand the difference between stopping something from occurring and reducing the number of occurrences?
So, you are not just going to answer the question. Typical. You want to argue over something stupid instead of answering the question or being constructive.

Answer it or don't. I don't care.
 
So, you are not just going to answer the question. Typical. You want to argue over something stupid instead of answering the question or being constructive.

Answer it or don't. I don't care.

I won't bother to answer a question when I know you're going to move the goal post.
 
and do not violate the Constitution. What gun reforms do you propose? Let's hear your solutions.

That's the issue: the one I have questioned Raoul on.

Your kind thinks reform any less than removing nukes from people violates the Constitution.

As I have gone over numerous times over the years, the 2nd was made to allow citizens to overthrow a tyrannical government. Based on the weapons the feds have, if you want to support the true intent of the 2nd, you must allow citizens strong enough weapons to overthrow a federal government. That means allowing them nukes, chemical weapons, and all sorts of other fun toys.
 
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That's the issue: the one I have questioned Raoul on.

Your kind thinks reform any less than removing nukes from people violates the Constitution.

As I have gone over numerous times over the years, the 2nd was made to allow citizens to overthrow a tyrannical government. Based on the weapons the feds have, if you want to support the true intent of the 2nd, you must allow citizens strong enough weapons to overthrow a federal government. That means allowing them nukes, chemical weapons, and all sorts of other fun toys.
That's absolutely stupid.
 
That's absolutely stupid.

Exactly. But if you want to argue about your 2nd Amendment right, in order to keep the intention of the writers of it, that's what you have to agree with.

Their intent was to allow citizens to form a strong enough militia to overtake the federal government/army. In order to do that in today's world, they'd need a lot, lot more than their favorite Glock.

So do you still want to argue about your 2nd Amendment rights?
 
Exactly. But if you want to argue about your 2nd Amendment right, in order to keep the irntention of the writers of it, that's what you have to agree with.

Their intent was to allow citizens to form a strong enough militia to overtake the federal government/army. In order to do that in today's world, they'd need a lot, lot more than their favorite Glock.

So do you still want to argue about your 2nd Amendment rights?

I don't have to argue about my 2nd amendment rights. The 2nd Amendment says the right to keep and bear arms. You are trying to say people believe they should have a standing Army or Navy or the ability to take over the world with a stupid gotcha catch all statement.

The Supreme Court has ruled gun ownership is an individual right. The Militia is not the National Guard. The National Guard is under complete power of the federal govt as ruled by the Supreme Court in 1990. The Army National Guard is the third part of the United States Army and the Air National Guard is the third part of the US Air Force. Through Presidential power and by funding the federal govt controls them ultimately. There is a reason they wear US Army or US Air Force on their uniform.

Again, the court as ruled that it is an individual right to own individual fire arms. That is the citizenry of this country.

The states can regulate type of guns(New Yorks laws are very much different than Texas), but they cannot ban gun ownership. Heller vs Washington DC.

That right can include sport, defense, collection, etc. That doesn't mean a standing Army. It is an individual right.

Gun control laws typical don't target criminals. They typically regulate legal ownership by legal citizens.
 
Here ya go, moron.
How is that going to reduce school shootings? They can use another type of firearm. Steal their dad's. They might be over 21. Use a lever action or a pump shotgun. Use a bolt action.

That weirdo up in Connecticut shot his mom in the head while she was sleeping. Took her guns and shot up a school.
 
That's the issue: the one I have questioned Raoul on.

Your kind thinks reform any less than removing nukes from people violates the Constitution.

As I have gone over numerous times over the years, the 2nd was made to allow citizens to overthrow a tyrannical government. Based on the weapons the feds have, if you want to support the true intent of the 2nd, you must allow citizens strong enough weapons to overthrow a federal government. That means allowing them nukes, chemical weapons, and all sorts of other fun toys.

I'm sorry, but was that an answer? I am actually interested in what your proposed reforms are. I didn't see any in that pissy response. Is this what you've resorted to? You've truly earned the Greed 2 nickname.
 
How is that going to reduce school shootings? They can use another type of firearm. Steal their dad's. They might be over 21. Use a lever action or a pump shotgun. Use a bolt action.

That weirdo up in Connecticut shot his mom in the head while she was sleeping. Took her guns and shot up a school.

It might not reduce occurrences, but it might reduce fatalities, which is of major concern to me.
 
I'm sorry, but was that an answer? I am actually interested in what your proposed reforms are. I didn't see any in that pissy response. Is this what you've resorted to? You've truly earned the Greed 2 nickname.

Feel free to look at the other ten times I have listed gun reform specifics over the last year, some of which you've been a part of the discussions.
 
It's why Herdman and Raoul have avoided my repeated question about the mental healthcare/murder rate/guns question compared with our peer countries.

No one has avoided your question. We've pointed out other nations went out and took away damn near all the guns. We know what you want, and that is why I called you, a gun owner, a hypocrite.

I'll say what Ice T said: I'll turn in my guns if I get to go last.
 
Feel free to look at the other ten times I have listed gun reform specifics over the last year, some of which you've been a part of the discussions.

I'm not going to go back and search for your gun control ideas. I don't care enough to do that. If you don't have a legit response, just say so and stop being a b*tch.

BTW, that sentence is just awful. Or maybe I'm just being irrationale.
 
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