The arms race continues....
- Thread starter cstolz26
- Start date
Athletic Directors call this an "arms race" because that has a much better ring to it than "taxpayer boondoggle."
Take away the government subsidy from college athletics, the whole system would collapse. Better yet, make the "profitable" schools pay back prior subsidy and see how many ADs retire in the next six months.
Take away the government subsidy from college athletics, the whole system would collapse. Better yet, make the "profitable" schools pay back prior subsidy and see how many ADs retire in the next six months.
Its gonna be very difficult for WVU to keep up. For us, Hammy has to find additional revenue streams and think outside the box. Frankly, we need to entertain more ticket packages for both football and B'ball. A three game ticket package (but not including UL). B'ball a 6 game package, etc.
Get the BG involved with students during their freshmen year. Cultivate those relationships and build on them for the future.
Have concerts in the Joan during the summer. 30K for a band would be awesome. etc. Jmo
Get the BG involved with students during their freshmen year. Cultivate those relationships and build on them for the future.
Have concerts in the Joan during the summer. 30K for a band would be awesome. etc. Jmo
Is that your prediction or just wishful thinking? I was surprised to discover WVU's athletic budget was approaching $100 million. They currently rank No. 31amongst all Division 1 schools. They are never going to approach the top money makING levels of Texas, Texas A&M, Ohio State, Michigan, etc., but I think they are well positioned in relation to the other P5 schools.
I think it'll be a struggle for all the teams in the middle 50% of P5 (which is where WVU is) to keep up with the true blue bloods of college football.
Eventually this TV money bubble is going to pop. It's not sustainable.
Not a knock against WVU. I wish Marshall made 1/2 of what they do.
Prediction. They can't sustain what they are funding unless the B12 continues to get more tv revenue. WVU was blessed to join the B12 so they can suckle at the league teet. Their football will never come close to a league title. B'ball obviously competes well. All other sports - who cares?
Take aways:
- This is an old article. USAT more or less just filed FOIA requests and made no effort to normalize the answers for the 1000s of accounting tricks and legitimate differences between the ways each state and/or school accounts for various expenses. This has been discussed here and elsewhere. It would probably take a team of CPAs months to actually come up with a scientifically legitimate answer, but the subsidy is almost certainly understated across most all schools.
- WVU athletics is NOT SELF-SUPPORTING. The Big Lie of WVU sports, dating back to at least the 1980s IS FALSE. Spamies: deal. When you parrot Crapridi, Vingleberry, Hickman, Hoppy, Cary and the rest of the lapdog media, you are spewing idiocy. When they tell you this lie, they know better and are taking advantage of your lack of intellect.
- TAMU, in the Greatest Conference In The History Of The World, is ahead of Texas. Despite the tremendous natural advantages (named for state, located in an actual city, size, alumni, high $ majors) that Texas has. This is how great the SEC that it has taken TAMU to this level and that quickly. And how great the conference network (SECN, B10N, PAC12N) is and how bad the individual school networks (Longhorn Network) is. The next battle in the Big 2, LIttle 8 is to get Texas to give up and agree to a conference based network.
- The Big 10 just signed a new TV deal. FOR FAR LESS MONEY than it wanted, and for only 6 (it wanted 15) years. The Big 10 was the last of the "power 5" to sign a new TV deal. It is 100% correct to understand that the TV bubble is bursting, if not already burst. EVERY conference, perhaps except the SEC, is looking at LESS money from TV going forward. Memo to all of your THE AMERICAN!!!!!! lovers: The AAC contract runs out in 2020, at which time this random collection of fan-less teams will get the same type of deal that the other "group of 5" leagues have, probably less in that nobody much cares about the schools anyway.
- And? No, I am not going to argue that MU and Alabama are on the same level. MU does have money needs (baseball field, charter flights to every game for every sport, nutritionists, etc) . But there is a top limit after which the return for that next $ is not that much. After you build every type of luxury weight room and IPF, fund flying every team everywhere, hire every type of high end trainer, sports psych, and nutrition guru, and so on, what do you do with that next $ ? The NCAA says you cannot pay the players and limits the level of luxuries you can give them; and it limits the number of coaches. If TAMU suddenly got another $25M, what, with specificity, would it do with it to make its football team better?
- All of the big boy's TV deals are now lined up to expire about the same time (which is also when the NFL's deals expire). Do you really think ESPN and its "competitors" really like the current system all that much? They really want to sell Clemson @ Wake Forest, Ohio State @ Purdue, UCLA @ Oregon State, Alabama @ Vanderbilt, or, yes, Texas @ WVU? Nah. The really top level teams can keep their money by dumping the field fillers in their leagues and creating a "AAA NFL" of 30 or so teams. The rest of us will be in, whatever they call it, Div II.
- There are at least 200 schools that COULD be in a position similar to ours. But they cower in I-AA or Div II or the lowly MAC. We are what we are because of over very special relationship with a very special fan base.
- This is an old article. USAT more or less just filed FOIA requests and made no effort to normalize the answers for the 1000s of accounting tricks and legitimate differences between the ways each state and/or school accounts for various expenses. This has been discussed here and elsewhere. It would probably take a team of CPAs months to actually come up with a scientifically legitimate answer, but the subsidy is almost certainly understated across most all schools.
- WVU athletics is NOT SELF-SUPPORTING. The Big Lie of WVU sports, dating back to at least the 1980s IS FALSE. Spamies: deal. When you parrot Crapridi, Vingleberry, Hickman, Hoppy, Cary and the rest of the lapdog media, you are spewing idiocy. When they tell you this lie, they know better and are taking advantage of your lack of intellect.
- TAMU, in the Greatest Conference In The History Of The World, is ahead of Texas. Despite the tremendous natural advantages (named for state, located in an actual city, size, alumni, high $ majors) that Texas has. This is how great the SEC that it has taken TAMU to this level and that quickly. And how great the conference network (SECN, B10N, PAC12N) is and how bad the individual school networks (Longhorn Network) is. The next battle in the Big 2, LIttle 8 is to get Texas to give up and agree to a conference based network.
- The Big 10 just signed a new TV deal. FOR FAR LESS MONEY than it wanted, and for only 6 (it wanted 15) years. The Big 10 was the last of the "power 5" to sign a new TV deal. It is 100% correct to understand that the TV bubble is bursting, if not already burst. EVERY conference, perhaps except the SEC, is looking at LESS money from TV going forward. Memo to all of your THE AMERICAN!!!!!! lovers: The AAC contract runs out in 2020, at which time this random collection of fan-less teams will get the same type of deal that the other "group of 5" leagues have, probably less in that nobody much cares about the schools anyway.
- And? No, I am not going to argue that MU and Alabama are on the same level. MU does have money needs (baseball field, charter flights to every game for every sport, nutritionists, etc) . But there is a top limit after which the return for that next $ is not that much. After you build every type of luxury weight room and IPF, fund flying every team everywhere, hire every type of high end trainer, sports psych, and nutrition guru, and so on, what do you do with that next $ ? The NCAA says you cannot pay the players and limits the level of luxuries you can give them; and it limits the number of coaches. If TAMU suddenly got another $25M, what, with specificity, would it do with it to make its football team better?
- All of the big boy's TV deals are now lined up to expire about the same time (which is also when the NFL's deals expire). Do you really think ESPN and its "competitors" really like the current system all that much? They really want to sell Clemson @ Wake Forest, Ohio State @ Purdue, UCLA @ Oregon State, Alabama @ Vanderbilt, or, yes, Texas @ WVU? Nah. The really top level teams can keep their money by dumping the field fillers in their leagues and creating a "AAA NFL" of 30 or so teams. The rest of us will be in, whatever they call it, Div II.
- There are at least 200 schools that COULD be in a position similar to ours. But they cower in I-AA or Div II or the lowly MAC. We are what we are because of over very special relationship with a very special fan base.
LOL, LOL, LOL!!!!!
I love it when an eerbilly comes on to post the eerbilly rhetoric that we don't need to play or associate with Marshall since we spend 28,000,000.00 in coaches salaries on drunks that dress and shave terribly on the sideline , whilst Marshall pays two well groomed coaches almost 1/4th of what SNJSSOA pays their coaches!
Look at today's Gazette, it references the same article. We beat U of Maryland with a 90 million dollar budget and U of Conneticut with a 78 million dollar budget. We spent 27 million, who cares what they spent, they LOST!
Dear Eerbillys we don't care what you spend on drunks!
BTW the biggest game on your schedule next year is Marshall v Akron. Holdmyself is DONE, he's out, and if Akron can beat Marshall you can justify hiring a peda-Bowden, if not your going to have to spend more, while we laugh at your stupidity of refusing to see Doc as a HC.
Please go away, your spend stats and LACK of results from those spends are embarrassing to you, not us!!!!!!! Lumberjacked again!
I love it when an eerbilly comes on to post the eerbilly rhetoric that we don't need to play or associate with Marshall since we spend 28,000,000.00 in coaches salaries on drunks that dress and shave terribly on the sideline , whilst Marshall pays two well groomed coaches almost 1/4th of what SNJSSOA pays their coaches!
Look at today's Gazette, it references the same article. We beat U of Maryland with a 90 million dollar budget and U of Conneticut with a 78 million dollar budget. We spent 27 million, who cares what they spent, they LOST!
Dear Eerbillys we don't care what you spend on drunks!
BTW the biggest game on your schedule next year is Marshall v Akron. Holdmyself is DONE, he's out, and if Akron can beat Marshall you can justify hiring a peda-Bowden, if not your going to have to spend more, while we laugh at your stupidity of refusing to see Doc as a HC.
Please go away, your spend stats and LACK of results from those spends are embarrassing to you, not us!!!!!!! Lumberjacked again!
it already "popped"...
ESPN lost 7 million subscribers from 2013 to 2015 and set records the last 3 months of 2015 for loses. Disney shares dropped 6.4% as a result. the ESPN "segment" of Disney lost 6% of operating income and was the only "segment" to lose instead of gain....
once the current TV contracts are up you will see a "new" college football landscape...
ESPN got "fat" by commanding the lion's share of revenue from cable/satellite contracts while being a "requirement" in the base packages. every day thousands of people are "cutting the cord". people are sick of paying $100 a month to watch 5 channels while being forced to pay for the other 95. Sling TV just opened a beta package. you can pay $20 a month for their regular lineup that includes ESPN/ESPN2 or you can pay $20 a month, drop ESPN/ESPN2 and GAIN 6 other channels. most of your big stations are now offering monthly subscriptions. anybody with internet can now get all the HBO channels for $15 a month. there are millions of people in this country that couldn't care less about ESPN, and now they have options to get TV service without footing these ridiculous sports network contracts...
within the next 5-10 years you will be able to directly pay the stations you want for content. that will be the final nail in the "bubble"...
within the next 5-10 years you will be able to directly pay the stations you want for content. that will be the final nail in the "bubble"...
Indeed it has popped and those programs that have truly "sustainable " balance sheets will be the ones that win out in the long run. I think Marshall is in that group, I don't think many P5s maybe in that group.
What will happen? A realignment realignment. BACK to geographies that make sense, conferences built on logistics not TV rights.
From today's Gazette, great stuff from the Ham-Rama himself....
Still, it’s difficult for some, even within the athletic ring, to comprehend.
“It’s hard for me to imagine how any athletic department can spend $87 million,” Hamrick said. “Connecticut made and spent $72 million and we beat them in a bowl game. Maryland is over $92 million and did you see what we did to their [football] team two years ago? With the sports we play WVU, we’re very competitive.
“I just look at some of these schools and wonder. How can Texas spend $100 million?”
Hamrick said the system is broken.
“College athletics are the most unfair competition in the sports world,” he said. “Look around. In the NBA, there’s a salary cap. In Major League baseball, there’s a salary cap. But there’s no cap in college athletics.
“How far can it go? Every time you pick up the newspaper someone is building a Taj Mahal. We’re guilty of it too. We have one of the best indoor practice facilities in the nation. But can we continue that at Marshall? Will we ever have an $80 million budget? Heck no. So we just work hard, hire good people and give our fans good bang for their buck. We win with less.”
Less, however, is more than ever
- See more at: http://www.wvgazettemail.com/article/20160419/GZ02/160419456#sthash.rhwUeud3.dpuf
What will happen? A realignment realignment. BACK to geographies that make sense, conferences built on logistics not TV rights.
From today's Gazette, great stuff from the Ham-Rama himself....
Still, it’s difficult for some, even within the athletic ring, to comprehend.
“It’s hard for me to imagine how any athletic department can spend $87 million,” Hamrick said. “Connecticut made and spent $72 million and we beat them in a bowl game. Maryland is over $92 million and did you see what we did to their [football] team two years ago? With the sports we play WVU, we’re very competitive.
“I just look at some of these schools and wonder. How can Texas spend $100 million?”
Hamrick said the system is broken.
“College athletics are the most unfair competition in the sports world,” he said. “Look around. In the NBA, there’s a salary cap. In Major League baseball, there’s a salary cap. But there’s no cap in college athletics.
“How far can it go? Every time you pick up the newspaper someone is building a Taj Mahal. We’re guilty of it too. We have one of the best indoor practice facilities in the nation. But can we continue that at Marshall? Will we ever have an $80 million budget? Heck no. So we just work hard, hire good people and give our fans good bang for their buck. We win with less.”
Less, however, is more than ever
- See more at: http://www.wvgazettemail.com/article/20160419/GZ02/160419456#sthash.rhwUeud3.dpuf
But yet, Fox is not doing well either. We're screwed either way. Folks are tired of forking over money to watch sports anymore. I am a huge sports fan and as competitive as hell, but I've never paid a dime for special sports package. Not worth it to me.
Chris, I absolutely agree with much of the pointstate you mentioned. WVU has and will never be a true blue blood in football or basketball as it relates to revenues generated. I'm surprised that they have done as well as they have done in the past and agree that Big 12 media rights have played a major role in their rapidly expanding bank account. This has been done without much to crow about on the field of play in football.
However, I do disagree that being in the middle of P5 schools puts them at a disadvantage going forward. With a budget approaching $100 million, they should have enough money to continue infrastructure development and improve the fan experience at their venues. If the bubble pops, do you think that WVU will be the only P5 school affected? If the bubble pops, I think all schools will be adversely affected but I believe that WVU will still remain somewhere in the middle of the pack regarding i revenues generated.
I still believe that one last conference realignment will take place and I think we're headed toward four, 16-team conferences with the Big 12 eventually dissolving. Even still, I think WVU will survive and remain a member of one of the power conferences.
As you know, budgets don't always translate into winning on the field. It's hard to imagine WVU ever competing with Texas or Oklahoma on a regular basis. But I never thought that I would see Baylor and TCU make the strides they have made in the last 5 years. Is that sustainable? I have no idea. They benefit greatly from their locations to many high school prospects in football rich Texas and they are both private schools with apparently a long list of wealthy benefactors.
I just think that it's dangerous to think that WVU cannot sustain its revenue stream among other power conference schools. Now, being a member of the club and winning championships are two totally different conversations.
If winning a national championship along with being a blue blood is the only standard then only a few teams are at that table to begin with. Being in a position to win at the highest level, meaning having a seat at the table any given year is where any honest fan will tell you they want their school to be.
not chris, but a couple notes:
- wvu's budget is pushing $100m largely because of b12 rights, the blue bloods out there don't need tv rights to push budgets that much. wvu brought in $44.3m in donations/ticket sales, texas brought in $107.4m from those two sources, oklahoma over $70m, etc.
- baylor and tcu's budgets are similar i'm betting, but their pool of funds they can reach into when needed are much deeper than wvu's. tcu has spent like close to $750m in the last decade on new facilities, upgrades, etc all from private sources.
WVU makes a lot of money because they're in the Big 12 and the Big 12 has a big television contract. Take that away and revenue goes way, way down. Same goes for 75% of P5s.
Baylor has a $1.2 billion endowment
TCU has a $1.5 billion endowment
WVU has $515 million.....
certainly not the only factor in establishing a successful athletic program but gives you a good idea of how far behind WVU is of the "middle of the pack" Big 12 schools...
TCU has a $1.5 billion endowment
WVU has $515 million.....
certainly not the only factor in establishing a successful athletic program but gives you a good idea of how far behind WVU is of the "middle of the pack" Big 12 schools...
this goes along with my endowment post. take away the TV money and look where the other schools stand compared to WVU.
TU - $25 bil
KU - $1.8 bil
OU - $1.5 bil
TCU - $1.5 bil
BU - $1.2 bil
TTU - $1.2 bil
OSU - $904 mil
ISU - $777 mil
WVU - $515 mil
KSU - $489 mil
LOL, and you'll be surprised when the ACC the B10 and the SEC and the PAC 12 commissioners who all have to give up their posts and money to agree to that realignment say NO?
There's now LESS TV money, and you think they will move in this direction? For what reason? Who wants to give up their power? Your 12 wants to add powerhouse Cincinnati that Marshall outdraws and they're going to increase ratings and revenue?
I see the exact opposite happening. TV revenues decrease again and again, travel costs soar, facility costs soar, local geographic based conferences that will sell well in local TV markets become the reality once again as the economic model that is sustainable. Coaches salaries will also begin to decline to reflect the realities of LESS TV money that was started by Dan Shoemaker!
Again let's face some cold hard facts eerbilly, you HAVENT been successful in the B12, your fan base attendance drops each year, (last sellout was?). You were successful in the BE playing ACC winless BC , UConn beatable by worthless Marshall and that other powerhouse ECU, oh and Pitt another ACC flop. Appears the emporer may hath been wearing no clothes after all????
Nope I see dark days ahead for the Eerbilly Sultans of Swig. CHuggy, Holdme, and the whole darn brewmaster team up there may be headed for disaster of epic proportion.
Bitter? No. A realist yes.
I ask myself over and over and over, WHY if SNJSSofFurnitureArson refuses to play us, why do their fans appear to be so obstinate to not realizing we are wondering why do you feel so compelled to come to a Marshall board to post stats, etc about your school?
We don't Fing CARE!!!!!
We don't need you, we dont want you.
I ask myself over and over and over, WHY if SNJSSofFurnitureArson refuses to play us, why do their fans appear to be so obstinate to not realizing we are wondering why do you feel so compelled to come to a Marshall board to post stats, etc about your school?
We don't Fing CARE!!!!!
We don't need you, we dont want you.
Lol lol lol lol, no not bitter, just asking what is your point eerbilly?
What is your point ?
We don't care, I don't go to,your boards and post yet half of your fans LIVE on our board!!!!!! Continually posting idiot eerbilly logic, like our budget is 78 million and we spend 28 million on drunks alone, and it's supposed to impress us?
No it doesn't impress it further verifies you spend 78 million on 6 wins at an average of 13 million per win, and we spend 28 million on 19 wins at an average of 2.8 million per win. You beat Maryland l we trounced Maryland, you played UCONN we beat UCONN.
Your economic model is not sustainable. Your getting ready to go from a drunk to a cheerleader peder coach from a MAC school. Vingle is already laying the bricks in the paper that it's a good move. Your biggest game next year is Marshall v Akron!!!
Let's be honest , answer me this question , why do you continually post here?
Why? Because your entire platform of self worth is based on making certain you see yourself more worthy than Marshall??? I think it might be so. Agree?
Here's the problem ,we don't Fing CARE!
Line up and Play.
What is your point ?
We don't care, I don't go to,your boards and post yet half of your fans LIVE on our board!!!!!! Continually posting idiot eerbilly logic, like our budget is 78 million and we spend 28 million on drunks alone, and it's supposed to impress us?
No it doesn't impress it further verifies you spend 78 million on 6 wins at an average of 13 million per win, and we spend 28 million on 19 wins at an average of 2.8 million per win. You beat Maryland l we trounced Maryland, you played UCONN we beat UCONN.
Your economic model is not sustainable. Your getting ready to go from a drunk to a cheerleader peder coach from a MAC school. Vingle is already laying the bricks in the paper that it's a good move. Your biggest game next year is Marshall v Akron!!!
Let's be honest , answer me this question , why do you continually post here?
Why? Because your entire platform of self worth is based on making certain you see yourself more worthy than Marshall??? I think it might be so. Agree?
Here's the problem ,we don't Fing CARE!
Line up and Play.
Success in college athletics comes down to two things, and its not money - its the willingness to cheat, and the ability to get away with it.
To make an analogy (not to argue politics) I had a friend who was a strong democrat. His analysis of EVERY election for EVERY office EVERY time was "the democrats will get 100% of the votes". He was analyizing with his heart, not facts and logic.
Fact is WVU offers very little in the next realignment. The same reasons the ACC, SEC, and Big 10 rejected them last time remain, and most get worse every single day.
- WV is the smallest state to have a team in the so called "power 5". In fact, only 3 states have even "group of 5" teams and are smaller, and in two of those the school in question is the only public college in the state.
- WV lost more people in the previous 5 years than any other state. War on coal. This trend is going to continue, no matter who wins the election, or the one after that, or the one after that. And, the actual decline is greater than the raw numbers, as growth in the EP (of people who are a, not natives, and b, not of the pliant intellect to fall for WVU's act) offsets the loss of typical Spamtards in the main part of WV.
- WV's media market is a mess. There is only one full DMA. H-C, and almost 1/3rd of it is in KY or OH (and the region where MU has the most traction). The rest of the state consists of amateur hour stations and lack all four networks, and sell ads to feed stores for $/holler. Almost 25% of the state, including technically Morgantown, gets its TV from out of state, in DMAs where the WV part is trivial compared to the whole, especially in the huge DC market. Moreover the state is split between three baseball loyalities (Reds, Pirates, and Nat/Os) and thus three different and seperatly owned regional sports networks (Fox's FS Ohio, AT&T's ROOT Pittsburgh, and the duo of Comcast's CSN MA and the team owned MASN). Very little to offer.
- WVU has been spectacularly unsuccessful in its move from the mid-major Big East to the Big 12, especially in football, which is what really matters.
- WVU's sports marketing plan had been, for decades, to beat the assorted cupcakes of the old Big East and tell its insualr fan base that this was something. Selling 7-5 or 8-4 as a "great year" , and that is all WVU can ever achieve at that level is a different sell. The seats are starting to empty. It is going to get worse. Year after year after year of being assreamed gets old, especially to a crowd that still ACTUALLY BELIEVES it was a national power back in the day when it owned South Florida and UConn.
- Like most colleges, WVU's corporate donor base has been its state's industries. That means coal. War on coal. And what comes after, which is old folks homes and rehab clinics are not going to donate to WVU sports.
- WVU has open admissions. That is darn near unique among the so called power 5. That really does matter, especially to the Big 10. But even to the ACC and SEC.
- And, to tie those two things together, WVU's marketing plan to students has been pretty simple. Take the state's massive over-funding (from coal taxes) and massively subsidize tuition and thus offer a quasi big time sports experience and a large college experience to C- students from the northeast. War on coal. The state is finally slashing WVU budget. This is just the start. At some point. WVU just will not have the $$ to make itself the ultra bargin it has always been to the drunken sons and daughters of the Garden State.
Fact is, as dumb a move as moving up to the true major level was (the Spamite fan base would have been happy to argue that THE AMERICAN = SEC, just as they always did with the Leastleftovers) WVU was very lucky to get in the 5th of the 5 so called power 5. Nobody else wanted them. And the next realignment is coming, when the TV deals run out again, and when it does, we are all in, no matter what they call it, the second division.
MU knows how to make sports work at the level. WVU? Who knows?
To be closer to your brilliance Sam. I feed off your anger.
says the guy spending all day posting on another team's site.
The total fixation of the Spamite upon Marshall knows no bounds. As yet another year of pointless losing comes to an end, all they have is "But Marshall..." It is sad, really.
Combined, of course, with the internet version of yelling "NO" really loudly when someone points out that their fantasy world is, well, a fantasy. It is all their limited minds can produce.
Combined, of course, with the internet version of yelling "NO" really loudly when someone points out that their fantasy world is, well, a fantasy. It is all their limited minds can produce.
Line up , play ball, act like men.
What do cowards do? Run from a fight , throw names.
I guess that pretty much nails it?
Go away.
What do cowards do? Run from a fight , throw names.
I guess that pretty much nails it?
Go away.
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