The G5

[MU42]

There are two arguments to this debate IMO. One is that we should go to the conference with the more recognizable names like ECU, Houston, UConn, etc. and give up the NQ. The other side is that without NQ, we can't compete and should stay the big fish in the small pond.

In my personal opinion if Cincy or UConn get the invite to the ACC or Big 12 we need to be ready to go to the AAC as a replacement. We will have competition though from UMass, ODU, Charlotte and other market only schools, but we are a strong winning program like ECU so we will have a shot.

 

[Herd Insider]

2002- 2009 to be exact.

 

[dshoe123]

Great idea. But remember when the league was formed, they chose Tulane and SMU over us.

We weren't in the conversation and they were......

 

[dshoe123]

Obviously, something is wrong with your set if you saw that "only" 3 out of 10 people that bothered to come to the game were for the visiting team. I can link you to dozens of pictures of Memphis games (Houston games, Tulane games, Tulsa games and certainly Temple games, heck, pretty much every one of these AMERICANS!!!!!!!!!!!! excepting ECU where the people are mostly dressed as empty seats. You know that. Have you seen Tulane's new "stadium" ?

And, yes, this is 100% about ESPN. Fact is ESPN (which recently signed a contract to include WWE results in SportsCenter as if they were real) ignores CUSA, because it does not have a contract with us. Because the fanless teams of THE AMERICAN (and the MAC) can afford to take their money and play, pretty much before nobody, on random weeknights. Playing on random weeknights is the price the mid-majors have to pay to get on ESPN. Conference USA, at least the better part of it, cannot afford to do that, because playing on weeknights over and over is a program killer for teams that have fans. When nobody is going to come anyway, it doesn't matter, and "nobody comes anyway" is THE AMERICAN!!!!!'s motto. This is about ESPN. Marshall had a nice run with ESPN. We were Boise before Boise was Boise. If not for KO Marcum we still might be. We have moved on. We are in a league that has no real relationship with ESPN. We have found our own way to a set of networks that provide us with TV coverage without the need to play on Tuesdays.

As to tirades and all of that, YOU say this isn't about Marshall. It isn't about ESPN. It just about talking up THE AMERICAN!!!!!!!! because one team beat, probably the #4 team (behind LSU, Bama, and TAMU) in an SEC division, once. Before "only" 3 out of 10 fans of the visiting team.

If its not about Marshall, then why is it here, on the Marshall board?

Sam, you are out of control on this topic....in virtually every area. ESPN has no agenda on the things you think they do, period. I've been in the meetings, you are simply wrong. And while Ole Miss had a great crowd there most of one endzone and part of one side, Memphis had the predominant numbers. Your bias on this topic colors your reason.

 

[ohio herd]

I am still at a loss for why we need to worry about the AAC. The path to a NYD6 spot is the top prize. None of the G5 will sniff a playoff bid. Now, we just need to keep putting up w's and all of this will take care of itself. Last year we finished ranked and it will take a few more years of this to bring us back to the national spotlight.

 

[dshoe123]

I am still at a loss for why we need to worry about the AAC. The path to a NYD6 spot is the top prize. None of the G5 will sniff a playoff bid. Now, we just need to keep putting up w's and all of this will take care of itself. Last year we finished ranked and it will take a few more years of this to bring us back to the national spotlight.

Was meant to be a discussion on the balance of power in G5 shifting from MWC to AAC. Certainly this will change from year to year. But any mention of the American sends SamC into a rage for some reason.

 

[ohio herd]

Was meant to be a discussion on the balance of power in G5 shifting from MWC to AAC. Certainly this will change from year to year.

I agree 100% and hope it shifts to C-USA someday. In the meantime all we can do is win and hope for the best. IMO

 

[andy4theherd]

I am still at a loss for why we need to worry about the AAC. The path to a NYD6 spot is the top prize. None of the G5 will sniff a playoff bid. Now, we just need to keep putting up w's and all of this will take care of itself. Last year we finished ranked and it will take a few more years of this to bring us back to the national spotlight.

that is true of the current format, but it is almost a certainty that the playoff will be expanded as soon as the current contract ends. the Big 12 being left out last year practically assured expansion.

 

[Herd Fever]

We really need an East/West Split in the G5

East - AAC

NORTH
MARSHALL
ECU
TEMPLE
CINCY
NAVY
UCONN
WKU
MTSU

SOUTH
Southern Miss
Memphis
Tulane
Louisiana Tech
UCF
USF
TULSA
SMU

West - Mountain West

Mountain
Houston
UTEP
Rice
UTSA
New Mexico
Colorado State
Air Force
Wyoming

Pacific
Boise
Utah State
Nevada
UNLV
San Jose State
San Diego State
Fresno State
Hawaii

This would clearly make the AAC and Mountain West the strongest 2 of the G5 conferences. And in turn would demand more TV money and exposure.

CUSA could look like this

East
ODU
UNCC
Appy State
Georgia Southern
FAU
FIU
Georgia State
UAB

West
South Alabama
Troy
Arkansas State
ULL
ULM
North Texas
Texas State
New Mexico State

MAC stays the same even possibly adding teams like Delaware, Youngstown State, and James Madison and the Sun Belt goes extinct

MAC - East

Ohio
Kent State
Akron
Youngstown State
James Madison
UMASS
Delaware
Buffalo
Miami(OH)

MAC West
Northern Illinois
Ball State
CMU
WMU
EMU
Toledo
Bowling Green
EKU

 

[HerdFan73]

I don't know why everybody is so convinced we'd have such better attendance in the AAC. I mean, that was our conference 4 years ago.

 

[portico]

So the AAC has three ranked teams,excellent coverage on ESPN, have recent article calling them a P6 league and the conference has good basketball. What is not to like?

Conf USA has Marshall, La Tech and WKU. Good schools in a bad league with a TV contract that is uncertain at best going forward.

What logic says the AAC is not the stronger conference? With the AAC tv contract alone,the conference will continue to pull away from the pack.

As Herd Insider so ably wrote,perception is everything and if CUSA has a better year next year than the AAC,the press will simply write that the AAC is having a down year,not fully giving credit to CUSA like they should.

UCONN
CINCY
ECU
MEMPHIS
UCF
USF
HOUSTON
SMU
These teams form a branding strategy that CUSA simply cannot compete with. CUSA needs the weaker teams in the league to get better fast if the conference wants to be relevant outside of its 3 best teams.

 

[The Real SamC]

ESPN has no agenda on the things you think they do, period. I've been in the meetings, you are simply wrong.

Nice picture of a few idiots running on a field.

And?

But to argue that ESPN (which, remember is paid to and will cover pro wrestling on SportsCenter as if it was real) does not shade its coverage towards the stuff it owns and ignores the things it does not is ridiculous beyond all comment.

But you were at a meeting. So they had a meeting about whether or not to cover sports "fair and balanced" or not, and invited you to it.

But don't let facts and logic interfere with the totally non-Marshall thread you started on a Marshall board about a conference Marshall turned down (oh, so wisely, $7M for NOTHING) joining, when then next realignment will not be for another 14 years. ESPN's mid-major had a team that ONCE beat the #4 team in an SEC division. Fox's CUSA has not. Point for you and ESPN. Nothing like a gracious winner.

And always remember

 

[pintcan]

The Big 12 is a better conf than the old Big East by a mile. The pouties made the jump. So how has that worked for them on the field? All the hoorah about playing with the big boys would mean absolutely nothing to me if we were an also ran most of the time. In the AAC we would be facing stiffer competition without the benefit of NQs. Notice I didn't say we couldn't win...just that a conf title would be tougher to come by. Now back to CUSA. You will see here in a few weeks we haven't gotten too big athletically for MT and WKU. Rice will have their moments. So why not schedule up in the OOC, keep the intrance and exit money and stay where our chances for the access bowl are better. If Hamrick contacts Cincy and UCF and is told no he needs to make that public. He is saying some better news about to be announced about scheduling. Last but decidedly not least.....THEY DONT WANT US. I don't kiss up to people who give me the cold shoulder. Just show them what they passed on. Doc doing a pretty good job of that. Hope they like those resulys they are getting with SMU and Tulane. LOL. Entrance not intrance..above lol.

 

[beefcake0520]

I don't know why everybody is so convinced we'd have such better attendance in the AAC. I mean, that was our conference 4 years ago.

I was going to say the same thing.... Only team(s) that might make a little difference is Navy and Cincy.

 

[ohio herd]

I know DSHOE has connections with ESPN and is football savvy. However, on this one you need to take the blinders off. For example, when we played Southern Miss on a Friday night I had to dig deep into the ESPN web site to find the score even posted. There was only one other game played that night. Of course it was on ESPN but for goodness sakes to ignore and bury our score is childish. I personally feel the same way about ESPN as I do Wal Mart. I can't stand it but do use it from time to time in spite of my disdain because it is about the only thing available where I live to get what I need.The love they have for all things SEC football is now hard to deny with the SEC/ESPN network. I am so happy that the SEC string of NC has been broken. The AAC may be currently a slight step up from C-USA and they may be having a good year. However, the difference in football is not that big. Furthermore, even if it was huge the P5 Cartel is going to do all they can to keep the money flowing to them. ESPN caters to the P5 cartel and gives scant coverage or attention to any G5. They call schools with 30,000 students small because they are G5 and refer to schools with less than 8,000 as large because of the P5 tag. For the record, I am pulling for FOX Sports to knock them off of there perch. They said it couldn't be done in Pro Football but they did it.Hope they can put a dent in them. And while we are on this rant look at Cato. How is it that he was shunned so bad last year in Heisman coverage? I mean he had better numbers than Leftwich who they followed. The difference is the ESPN contract plain and simple!

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Last year, CUSA had a good year, this year its AAC. The MAC is having a solid year as well. If any league is scratching its head, its the MWC. The flagship is not doing well, after that it's not that great at all. jmo
Face facts, CUSA is a bad league for the most part. We can either do our part, carry the banner and hopefully make it better; or try to go to the AAC and lose our props; which I don't think would hurt us as much as some do. But, we have to have the money to make the jump and even more money to keep pace with the AAC schools. I think that's why we will never make the jump, even if the chance comes.

 

[pintcan]

I think right now without G Thompson and C Tindal we would be hurting...both props and several others like Huskey, Dillon, McManus etc..not to mention facing tougher teams. Its not rocket science.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

So in essence we are admitting we can't win without props? If that's the case, lets not even talk about moving up, we're already defeated.

 

[pintcan]

JUCOs...prep school players....NQs. Mostly no diff. I'm not gonna cook on one burner if I have four available. If we won 28 games in the AAC without the benefit over a four yr period we prob could win 32 or more in CUSA in the same time." where winning is everything and nothing else matters"

And usually I don't bring up the part about a rule barring NQs reminds me of snootiness at least if not down right immoral. They're saying a lot of kids need some help but we're only gonna help these. Not those. Strikes me wrong.

 

[Rakeem_Cato]

Herd Insider, I agree that perception is reality and that we need to play tougher opponents in the future, but I would also argue that Kirk Herbstreet didn't do his job well. His job is to provide somewhat accurate analysis and insight for college football, it's not very accurate to compare Eastern Michigan and Marshall. I don't give a sh*t how bad our schedule is.

 

[pdbailey]

Great idea. But remember when the league was formed, they chose Tulane and SMU over us.

I would like to add that ODU and Charlotte would also be ahead of us in the queue as well. They suck now, but they both have everything the AAC looked for when they picked Tulane and SMU.

 

[pdbailey]

Herd Insider, I agree that perception is reality and that we need to play tougher opponents in the future, but I would also argue that Kirk Herbstreet didn't do his job well. His job is to provide somewhat accurate analysis and insight for college football, it's not very accurate to compare Eastern Michigan and Marshall. I don't give a sh*t how bad our schedule is.

I agree, we are 6-1 this year, went 13-1 last year and annihilated ESPN's other poster child NIU, and went 10-4 in 2013 with a dominating win over a decent MD team. If you look at the 2nd half of 2013 to now, we are 26-3. This year hasn't been pretty due to all of the injuries our team has suffered, but so far we have found a way to win, and I have a feeling we will finish strong this year. We have two tough road games, but you always have a chance when you have strong defense and special teams units, so you never know.

 

[Herd Fever]

I would like to add that ODU and Charlotte would also be ahead of us in the queue as well. They suck now, but they both have everything the AAC looked for when they picked Tulane and SMU.

Tulane and SMU have the benefit of being in the same conference as most of the schools for a long time and Tulane, SMU, and Tulsa presidents are best friends, have said such and has said it was important for them to stay together.

Just quit it with the ODU and UNCC talk PD, you have been sucking them for years now. They suck, their programs suck, and they wont get an invite to the AAC. They have their market schools they now need to improve the competition something CUSA didn't do

 

[beefcake0520]

Unless the money is that much better in the AAC, I just don't think we would make the jump unless Southern Miss made it too. Its not a high enough jump like it was when we went from the MAC to CUSA in terms of finances. Now that could change, it will be interesting to see the TV dollars this time around with CUSA. The conference really needed to showcase this year and I don't think we have done that very well.

 

[cincyherdfan]

Nice picture of a few idiots running on a field.

And?

But to argue that ESPN (which, remember is paid to and will cover pro wrestling on SportsCenter as if it was real) does not shade its coverage towards the stuff it owns and ignores the things it does not is ridiculous beyond all comment.

But you were at a meeting. So they had a meeting about whether or not to cover sports "fair and balanced" or not, and invited you to it.

But don't let facts and logic interfere with the totally non-Marshall thread you started on a Marshall board about a conference Marshall turned down (oh, so wisely, $7M for NOTHING) joining, when then next realignment will not be for another 14 years. ESPN's mid-major had a team that ONCE beat the #4 team in an SEC division. Fox's CUSA has not. Point for you and ESPN. Nothing like a gracious winner.

And always remember

View embedded media

Too bad this picture at Temple is when they were playing Little Miami back when Temple was in the MAC.

 

[Herd Fever]

Unless the money is that much better in the AAC, I just don't think we would make the jump unless Southern Miss made it too. Its not a high enough jump like it was when we went from the MAC to CUSA in terms of finances. Now that could change, it will be interesting to see the TV dollars this time around with CUSA. The conference really needed to showcase this year and I don't think we have done that very well.

Its not about the money, its about the exposure and last year proved it. CUSA gets no respect

 

[exHerdSID]

Trying to figure out which is a better conference just has too many angles to it. Top team vs. top team? Top two or three? Worst vs. worst, City vs. city, TV market vs TV market?

While both the AAC and CUSA have good team, they also have bad teams. To me the primary difference may be in potential. The CUSA has some markets and teams where if they continue to grow, and their teams can be reasonably successful, they can build a following. FAU has 30,000 students enrolled somewhere. We outnumbered them, last Saturday, but if they were coming off a 13-1 championship season I am sure they'd have a lot more.

I will admit it. I worry more about how the Herd will do the next game and over the season than which league is better or which one we should be in. Just compete, win, enjoy.

 

[Herd Fever]

I am just looking forward to another 13-1 conference and bowl championship season.

Sooner or later if we keep winning and if we by chance steal an access spot, the AAC cant ignore us for too long and realize the money they are missing out on by not moving to a 16 team conference and moving up Marshall, WKU, MTSU, and Southern Miss

 

[dshoe123]

But to argue that ESPN (which, remember is paid to and will cover pro wrestling on SportsCenter as if it was real) does not shade its coverage towards the stuff it owns and ignores the things it does not is ridiculous beyond all comment.

But you were at a meeting. So they had a meeting about whether or not to cover sports "fair and balanced" or not, and invited you to it.

But don't let facts and logic interfere with the totally non-Marshall thread you started on a Marshall board about a conference Marshall turned down (oh, so wisely, $7M for NOTHING) joining, when then next realignment will not be for another 14 years. ESPN's mid-major had a team that ONCE beat the #4 team in an SEC division. Fox's CUSA has not. Point for you and ESPN. Nothing like a gracious winner.

Sam, you have lost all touch with reality and civility! Your statements are so over the top and based on nothing more than your own bias!! Pitiful and pathetic. You can't seem to enter into a discourse on these topics without throwing around biased assumptions about things of which you have NO knowledge whatsoever, only conclusions you draw from a biased analysis of suppositions that you claim to be fact! SAD indeed!!!

We had numerous meetings at ESPN about the responsibility of the News and information department about NOT doing exactly what you are suggesting, programming and promotions of course have different rules not governed by the responsibility of a news organization! They (programming and promotions) are entertainment and driven by ratings. And by the way, I wasn't "invited" to attend it was part of my responsibility as a Sr Administrator and officer of the Company with a legal fiduciary responsibility to the stockholder as an officer. But I no longer work for ESPN, so I am totally objective about them, just much more knowledgeable about them than most.

Where in the world did you ever get the idea that Marshall turned down this league??? See, you make this stuff up and throw it out as fact, but I assume you have convinced yourself and to you that appears to be all that matters..... You post a pic of USF playing in a pro stadium focused on the visitors side...... How many games at Rice or many other G5 schools look just like that......

This discussion has completely run its course..... You have lost all reason and have NO objectivity whatsoever. Feel bad for you that you don't seem to be able to get outside your own emotions and have an intelligent objective discussion on this topic. It's a shame too, because most of your other posts are quite enlightening and well thought out.

 

[pdbailey]

Tulane and SMU have the benefit of being in the same conference as most of the schools for a long time and Tulane, SMU, and Tulsa presidents are best friends, have said such and has said it was important for them to stay together.

Just quit it with the ODU and UNCC talk PD, you have been sucking them for years now. They suck, their programs suck, and they wont get an invite to the AAC. They have their market schools they now need to improve the competition something CUSA didn't do

I actually hate ODU and believe their HC is full of crap, but the fact remains they have an athletic budget that is 1.5 times the size of ours, which makes them comparable to the AAC schools. They also are in a large metro area where they are a highly thought of school. They have an AD that has major connections that has allowed them to get home games with P5 schools even though they are a start up. They are in the process of building a new 35-40K stadium, and probably have 100 times the donor money available than us. The only places we are ahead of them right now is our name recognition nationally, our practice facility and stadium, and on the field in football.

 

[Herd Fever]

I actually hate ODU and believe their HC is full of crap, but the fact remains they have an athletic budget that is 1.5 times the size of ours, which makes them comparable to the AAC schools. They also are in a large metro area where they are a highly thought of school. They have an AD that has major connections that has allowed them to get home games with P5 schools even though they are a start up. They are in the process of building a new 35-40K stadium, and probably have 100 times the donor money available than us. The only places we are ahead of them right now is our name recognition nationally, our practice facility and stadium, and on the field in football.

Your last sentence is the only things that should matter. Hell we still out recruit them in their own backyard

 

[dshoe123]

I actually hate ODU and believe their HC is full of crap, but the fact remains they have an athletic budget that is 1.5 times the size of ours, which makes them comparable to the AAC schools. They also are in a large metro area where they are a highly thought of school. They have an AD that has major connections that has allowed them to get home games with P5 schools even though they are a start up. They are in the process of building a new 35-40K stadium, and probably have 100 times the donor money available than us. The only places we are ahead of them right now is our name recognition nationally, our practice facility and stadium, and on the field in football.

They are actually NOT in the process of building a new stadium, but they are in the process of planning to build anew stadium. I was with Wood Selig and their President several weeks ago and they have lots of issues to resolve before they can ever break ground. That said, they are optimistic that they will get it done.

 

[Herdmeister]

They are actually NOT in the process of building a new stadium, but they are in the process of planning to build anew stadium. I was with Wood Selig and their President several weeks ago and they have lots of issues to resolve before they can ever break ground. That said, they are optimistic that they will get it done.

I actually enjoyed the trip there last year. I liked their fans and their coach couldn't say enough good things about us in both his pre-game and post game remarks. He is using us as an example of where they strive to be. I'm glad they're in the league.

 

[exHerdSID]

I view JMU being as good as an addition as has been ODU. Harrisonburg is not a big market but for the past 20 years JMU has been cranking out a lot of grads that end up in NoVa, DC and Richmond. I would guess that the numbers for JMU would be a lot stronger in those markets for ODU. JMU was a competitive admission school for that time, too. ODU, pre-football, was always viewed as more like VCU. JMU is building a new arena, too. They won't say publically but many suspect they might have been able to, but didn't want to go SunBelt. Biggest drawback is the airport and heavy I81 traffic. VaBeach is, was and will for a long time still be a fractured UVA-VT-UNC-even ECU market. As we all know, the problem with conference addition right now is that it just reduces the revenue share for the current members. And unless something drastic happens, the next round of negotiations aren't looking like they will lead to higher bids/ more revenue. I'll defer to Dan on this topic but as ESPN has exhibited, cost cutting seems to be more in vogue today.

 

[dshoe123]

I actually enjoyed the trip there last year. I liked their fans and their coach couldn't say enough good things about us in both his pre-game and post game remarks. He is using us as an example of where they strive to be. I'm glad they're in the league.

I think ODU was a great addition!!!!

 

[dshoe123]

I actually enjoyed the trip there last year. I liked their fans and their coach couldn't say enough good things about us in both his pre-game and post game remarks. He is using us as an example of where they strive to be. I'm glad they're in the league.

I think ODU was a great addition!!!!

I view JMU being as good as an addition as has been ODU. Harrisonburg is not a big market but for the past 20 years JMU has been cranking out a lot of grads that end up in NoVa, DC and Richmond. I would guess that the numbers for JMU would be a lot stronger in those markets for ODU. JMU was a competitive admission school for that time, too. ODU, pre-football, was always viewed as more like VCU. JMU is building a new arena, too. They won't say publically but many suspect they might have been able to, but didn't want to go SunBelt. Biggest drawback is the airport and heavy I81 traffic. VaBeach is, was and will for a long time still be a fractured UVA-VT-UNC-even ECU market. As we all know, the problem with conference addition right now is that it just reduces the revenue share for the current members. And unless something drastic happens, the next round of negotiations aren't looking like they will lead to higher bids/ more revenue. I'll defer to Dan on this topic but as ESPN has exhibited, cost cutting seems to be more in vogue today.

it's a pretty safe bet that you won't see more revenue!!!!

 

[exHerdSID]

I like ODU for the same reasons as FIU, FAU. Nice potential, nice recruiting areas. Alums, transportation, etc.
Yes, only opportunities for revenue will be on a school-by-school basis, need to create new opportunities rather than relying on old models of donation and game admission. As our mutual friend has been doing for a few schools now.

 

[dshoe123]

I actually enjoyed the trip there last year. I liked their fans and their coach couldn't say enough good things about us in both his pre-game and post game remarks. He is using us as an example of where they strive to be. I'm glad they're in the league.

I think ODU was a great addition!!!!

I view JMU being as good as an addition as has been ODU. Harrisonburg is not a big market but for the past 20 years JMU has been cranking out a lot of grads that end up in NoVa, DC and Richmond. I would guess that the numbers for JMU would be a lot stronger in those markets for ODU. JMU was a competitive admission school for that time, too. ODU, pre-football, was always viewed as more like VCU. JMU is building a new arena, too. They won't say publically but many suspect they might have been able to, but didn't want to go SunBelt. Biggest drawback is the airport and heavy I81 traffic. VaBeach is, was and will for a long time still be a fractured UVA-VT-UNC-even ECU market. As we all know, the problem with conference addition right now is that it just reduces the revenue share for the current members. And unless something drastic happens, the next round of negotiations aren't looking like they will lead to higher bids/ more revenue. I'll defer to Dan on this topic but as ESPN has exhibited, cost cutting seems to be more in vogue today.

it's a pretty safe bet that you won't see more revenue!!!!

I like ODU for the same reasons as FIU, FAU. Nice potential, nice recruiting areas. Alums, transportation, etc.
Yes, only opportunities for revenue will be on a school-by-school basis, need to create new opportunities rather than relying on old models of donation and game admission. As our mutual friend has been doing for a few schools now.

He has done a really good job for them!!!!

 

[WV_Celt]

Shoe, shut up already.

 

[andy4theherd]

the fact that we are talking about how ODU and possibly JMU would make our conference better tells you a lot about our conference....................