The Opiod Crisis and Lawsuits

[Raoul Duke MU]

How do you think most of these people became addicted? Most of them were started at normal doses and a small prescription and became addicted. Many don't just show up at a pill mill one day asking for huge narcotic rx's.

First, this thread is about wholesalers flooding the market with pills by supplying pill mill pharmacies that were fed scripts from pill mill doctors. So yeah, no offense, but its bullshit to blame satisfaction scores for that.

There are certainly a lot of people that got hooked because legit doctors wrote a small pain pill prescription. But that's not what I saw happening when the stuff exploded. It was like someone opened a valve and pills poured out of it. It suddenly became the cool way to get high. In a couple year period of time it went from me having never seen a pain pill outside of someone being prescribed some to me seeing co-workers snorting OC's. It remains the craziest cultural shift I have ever seen evolve. I am convinced it happened because the market was flooded with pills, not because some doctors innocently were too free with writing prescriptions.

 

[ThunderCat98]

There are pill mills and sh*tty, crooked doctors in every strip mall in So. Florida, and a bunch more in Georgia. Couple those with local doctors, and its way more than a handful. A minority? Certainly. But I would wager you're getting well into double digit percentages when looking at "pain management" doctors on a national scale. In fact, it's harder to find a legit pain management doctor than a pill pusher.

 

[marshallisqbu]

First, this thread is about wholesalers flooding the market with pills by supplying pill mill pharmacies that were fed scripts from pill mill doctors. So yeah, no offense, but its bullshit to blame satisfaction scores for that.

There are certainly a lot of people that got hooked because legit doctors wrote a small pain pill prescription. But that's not what I saw happening when the stuff exploded. It was like someone opened a valve and pills poured out of it. It suddenly became the cool way to get high. In a couple year period of time it went from me having never seen a pain pill outside of someone being prescribed some to me seeing co-workers snorting OC's. It remains the craziest cultural shift I have ever seen evolve. I am convinced it happened because the market was flooded with pills, not because some doctors innocently were too free with writing prescriptions.

If it sounded like I was blaming patient satisfaction for the pill mills that wasn't my intent, and I even said their only focus is making money. The market wasn't all the sudden flooded with pills, we created the demand by over prescribing. Part of that over prescribing was due to the "customer is always right" mentality. Part of it is because it is easier to say yes than no. And then some just didn't care or wanted to make money.

Also, When the people addicted in large numbers the market began supplying tons of pills, not the other way around. Simple supply and demand and when the demand went up the pill mills and pharmacies were guilty of fulfilling the supply.

I can't work a shift without a drug overdose and have put many on life support only for them to wake up later and walk out. This is not going away because now that the pills are being shut down people are turning to heroine which is much more deadly. I would rather have them abusing pills.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

If it sounded like I was blaming patient satisfaction for the pill mills that wasn't my intent, and I even said their only focus is making money. The market wasn't all the sudden flooded with pills, we created the demand by over prescribing. Part of that over prescribing was due to the "customer is always right" mentality. Part of it is because it is easier to say yes than no. And then some just didn't care or wanted to make money.

Also, When the people addicted in large numbers the market began supplying tons of pills, not the other way around. Simple supply and demand and when the demand went up the pill mills and pharmacies were guilty of fulfilling the supply.

I can't work a shift without a drug overdose and have put many on life support only for them to wake up later and walk out. This is not going away because now that the pills are being shut down people are turning to heroine which is much more deadly. I would rather have them abusing pills.

I am not really disagreeing with your experience, but I am telling you I saw a whole different side of it. And I disagree with you on the supply and demand, I saw a supply create a demand. Again, maybe because I saw things from a whole different angle. My profession at the time was call center management, so I had this interesting sample size of a couple thousand people of a certain socioeconomic demographic to observe over a decade. It went from occasionally firing someone for being drunk or stoned at work to, and I am not exaggerating, people snorting pills in their cubicles or off the toilet tanks and nodding off, just crazy shit. And it happened fast, a fast cultural shift. I saw enough people ruined that I started following the issue as closely as I could, and still do. Now, did the original over prescribing create the demand a different way? Probably. There were certainly more pills out there, and I am sure people shared what they got, and some people really liked what they tried. But IMHO that isn't what ultimately turned Appalachia into a zombie nation of pillheads. I am convinced it is a manufactured epidemic, and was created by certain pharmaceutical companies and wholesalers to make money.

I think it is interesting we have different opinions because we saw this from totally different perspectives, but we still have a lot to agree on.

And you are 100% correct about heroin and the unintended result of busting the pill mills. Nothing was done to combat addiction, what the hell did the government think would happen? I have driven people hours away from WV just to find an open spot in a treatment center. When an addict decides they are ready to get clean they shouldn't have to go hours away for treatment; can you imagine having a heart attack and being told to keep driving for hours?

As a side argument, what the hell are we doing keeping people on suboxone and methadone for years? That's not real treatment.

 

[MStap]

The Plaintiff lawyers are trying to go after the crooked doctors and pharmacies to defeat diversity as much as anything. The big pharma companies are trying to make themselves be the only defendants to pull the cases from state court to federal court.

 

[marshallisqbu]

I hate methadone. At least with suboxone you can slowly lower the dose and get people off.

We aren't really disagreeing that much. As far as seeing people doing the pills at work and such, I believe you. It is a culture of recklessness that I don't understand but I have never been one to try it. I had a grandmother in her 50's overdose and get in icu and her daughter came to see her, went in bathroom and overdosed almost to death. At some point you just shake your head and move along because it has become so commonplace.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

It is a culture of recklessness that I don't understand but I have never been one to try it.

I understand addiction, but I do not understand the people that tried the strong pain pills for fun and thought that would be a good idea (same with heroin if they are not already an addict). I never touched that stuff because I understand its effects and know it is the devil.

The thing now around here is to shoot up in a public place so if you OD someone will see you and call for help. At that point I no longer understand their addiction, it doesn't even make the least bit of sense.

 

[Walden Pond]

Sitting around doing nothing is what causes all this. That's why I always go places. Not for what's at the end of the road. Just to go. So I'm not sitting doing nothing and going nowhere. That's what lends itself to being a drugged up zombie, alcoholic, eating all day getting fat, and many other habits of the slow and dumb.

Drove out to Iowa yesterday. I-74 through Illinois is really a gem. Lots of sparse prairie. I like to get the hell away from people, and at night you see all these towers in the distance blinking.

It's a visual stimulation that only a weird son of a bitch with the curse of the chicken people can really appreciate. Ranks up there with walking real fast down the dog food aisle and huffing the byproducts.

 

[GK4Herd]

I absolutely love your way with words and language. You have a very unique perspective and interesting way of putting things. It's kind of a self deprecating nihilism thing. You do it well.

 

[GK4Herd]

And you know there's a decay in society when you have to produce ID at Walmart to buy air in a can.

 

[i am herdman]

Sitting around doing nothing is what causes all this. That's why I always go places. Not for what's at the end of the road. Just to go. So I'm not sitting doing nothing and going nowhere. That's what lends itself to being a drugged up zombie, alcoholic, eating all day getting fat, and many other habits of the slow and dumb.

Drove out to Iowa yesterday. I-74 through Illinois is really a gem. Lots of sparse prairie. I like to get the hell away from people, and at night you see all these towers in the distance blinking.

It's a visual stimulation that only a weird son of a bitch with the curse of the chicken people can really appreciate. Ranks up there with walking real fast down the dog food aisle and huffing the byproducts.

I agree

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

I absolutely love your way with words and language. You have a very unique perspective and interesting way of putting things. It's kind of a self deprecating nihilism thing. You do it well.

Yeah, I can't wait to once again hear his perspective on blacks. Lest we forget his comments which were the worst exhibitions of racism ever exhibited on HerdNation over 15+ years? His comments made Marshall77 look like the head of the NAACP. "Blacks should stick to themselves," "whites have no business marrying blacks," "the only thing a white girl would want a black man for is his telephone pole," and his references to blacks being certain animals found in jungles were so refreshing.

Such a unique and interesting way of putting things. It's a shame that Ted Bundy isn't with us anymore. I would love to support his words and perspective on rape and the value of life.

 

[extragreen]

Well, it's eye opening that herdman and walden accuse white americans of sitting around doing nothing. Who'd of thunk it?

 

[GK4Herd]

Yeah, I can't wait to once again hear his perspective on blacks. Lest we forget his comments which were the worst exhibitions of racism ever exhibited on HerdNation over 15+ years? His comments made Marshall77 look like the head of the NAACP. "Blacks should stick to themselves," "whites have no business marrying blacks," "the only thing a white girl would want a black man for is his telephone pole," and his references to blacks being certain animals found in jungles were so refreshing.

Such a unique and interesting way of putting things. It's a shame that Ted Bundy isn't with us anymore. I would love to support his words and perspective on rape and the value of life.

I don't think I've ever met a person who can take things to such a personal level as you do. Everything.

I don't condone his racist comments. His above comments made me laugh. That's all. The relentlessly running people into the ground part I'll leave up to you. I just don't have that kind of hatred for everyone.

 

[extragreen]

I don't think I've ever met a person who can take things to such a personal level as you do. Everything.

I don't condone his racist comments. His above comments made me laugh. That's all. The relentlessly running people into the ground part I'll leave up to you. I just don't have that kind of hatred for everyone.

Perhaps. Maybe it's because you reserve it for a select few.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

I don't condone his racist comments. His above comments made me laugh. That's all.

Your "you have such a unique perspective and interesting way of putting things" comment was not based on just today's post. It was based on the history of Ducky's comments. Many, many of his comments are absolutely disgusting and full of extreme racism and slamming of gays. To claim his views as being "a unique perspective" and an "interesting way of putting things" in the context you said it is acceptance.

When somebody's inner core is that vile, I have no desire to associate with them in a friendly manner, let alone accept their views. I don't count it as a positive character trait that you do associate with them and accept it.

I don't think I've ever met a person who can take things to such a personal level as you do. Everything.

I'm the one taking things to a personal level? Perhaps, if Ducky made those disgusting comments towards your daughters/family members, you would feel differently. But since his comments about blacks and gays doesn't hit home for you, you have no problem letting them go. I'm sure you understand why many historians claim Germans who didn't support the Holocaust, but also didn't act against it, were partially complicit in those evils committed.

I just don't have that kind of hatred for everyone.

This is rich. I am the one allegedly with hatred, yet the guy who espouses hate-speech against blacks and gays just has "a unique perspective" and an "interesting way of putting things."

Some of us just have a spine.

 

[i am herdman]

Your "you have such a unique perspective and interesting way of putting things" comment was not based on just today's post. It was based on the history of Ducky's comments. Many, many of his comments are absolutely disgusting and full of extreme racism and slamming of gays. To claim his views as being "a unique perspective" and an "interesting way of putting things" in the context you said it is acceptance.

When somebody's inner core is that vile, I have no desire to associate with them in a friendly manner, let alone accept their views. I don't count it as a positive character trait that you do associate with them and accept it.




I'm the one taking things to a personal level? Perhaps, if Ducky made those disgusting comments towards your daughters/family members, you would feel differently. But since his comments about blacks and gays doesn't hit home for you, you have no problem letting them go. I'm sure you understand why many historians claim Germans who didn't support the Holocaust, but also didn't act against it, were partially complicit in those evils committed.



This is rich. I am the one allegedly with hatred, yet the guy who espouses hate-speech against blacks and gays just has "a unique perspective" and an "interesting way of putting things."

Some of us just have a spine.

Didn't you make disgusting remarks towards GK's daughter(s)? To her own father?

I never knew you to be such a bitter person. But, you do seem bitter lately.

GK and I have some heated discussions sometimes, but he seems very level headed to me and very intelligent. We "shake hands" at the end of the discussion and move on. That is what I like about GK. I think you are being a little harsh on him.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Didn't you make disgusting remarks towards GK's daughters?

Never once, unless something along the lines of "feel free to introduce them to your favorite HerdNation poster" is considered "disgusting."

 

[i am herdman]

Never once, unless something along the lines of "feel free to introduce them to your favorite HerdNation poster" is considered "disgusting."

Well, thanks for you trying to arrange the meeting between them and me.

That being said, I believe it went further than that.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Well, thanks for you trying to arrange the meeting between them and me.
.

Was just trying to pay you back for that weekend you allowed your wife to have a hall pass. I appreciated it.

That being said, I believe it went further than that.

No, it didn't. And I am sure if it had, he would have no problem speaking up about it here.

 

[Walden Pond]

LOL, hell I'm an old man now. I don't care what whites and blacks do at this point. Ultimately, we will be bred out. It's all right with me. I'd be OK with being the last generation anyway. No interest in a family, that's for sure. I see it as a sucker's game.

 

[GK4Herd]

Thanks herdman...I appreciate the fact that I can argue passionately with you and no one takes it personally. We've spoken off line on this very topic. One of the reasons I take you on sometimes is because I know you'll argue the point, sometimes heatedly and sarcastically, but still walk away from it with a clean slate for another day. Today's discussion on OF was fun.

I do think you might be mistaking rifle's conversations about my daughters. He has joked around but I've always felt it was in good fun and never took offense from it. At least that's how I remember the remarks.

I disagree with how rifle goes about his argument sometimes but it wouldn't accurately depict what was said by him. That being said..,my daughter in reference at the time is almost 32 (too old for rifle by his own admission) and 9 months pregnant. I think she's out of his demographics.

 

[herdfan06]

Thanks herdman...I appreciate the fact that I can argue passionately with you and no one takes it personally. We've spoken off line on this very topic. One of the reasons I take you on sometimes is because I know you'll argue the point, sometimes heatedly and sarcastically, but still walk away from it with a clean slate for another day. Today's discussion on OF was fun.

I do think you might be mistaking rifle's conversations about my daughters. He has joked around but I've always felt it was in good fun and never took offense from it. At least that's how I remember the remarks.

I disagree with how rifle goes about his argument sometimes but it wouldn't accurately depict what was said by him. That being said..,my daughter in reference at the time is almost 32 (too old for rifle by his own admission) and 9 months pregnant. I think she's out of his demographics.

Do you have any daughters that are single and of legal age?

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Thanks herdman...I appreciate the fact that I can argue passionately with you and no one takes it personally. We've spoken off line on this very topic. One of the reasons I take you on sometimes is because I know you'll argue the point, sometimes heatedly and sarcastically, but still walk away from it with a clean slate for another day. Today's discussion on OF was fun.

You post that as if it somehow isn't able to be done by many others, including me, on here. This place survived for 15+ years and has only gone downhill with the choices made by the moderators.

I've had heated arguments for over a decade with Herdman without it getting personal. The most personal it would get is me calling him a "redneck" and him calling me a "yankee." Look at the arguments I have had with Pokey, Big Country, Murox, Keeper, etc. over the years. What you fail to acknowledge, and what I have always maintained, is that I don't make it personal until the other person does first.

Look at the main board over the last month; in numerous posts, I have contributed discussion to the topic. Yet, then, a poster would turn the topic with an attack about personal information on me (Herd Fever multiple times, Herd in the Plains -there isn't a coincidence with that by the way, josh the moderator) out of nowhere. What happens to those people? Not a thing. They get a free pass (paying customers). Yet, if I respond to them with personal attacks, my posts get deleted, and I get a warning. Others have noticed it. Of course, more would notice it if not for my posts being deleted.

Look at the pinned thread above. Sheer hypocrisy by the moderators with the picture I posted. Look at the posts I had deleted in it. I asked a fair question about if those rules applied to both moderators and posters. Each time I asked, it was deleted and I was told to PM a moderator if I had a question. Yet, a WVU poster makes a comment about the moderating in the thread a day later, and his post is kept up and answered by a moderator. I could play this game all day long. Unforunately, if I show the proof with the screenshots, the posts are immediately taken down.

I posted two very worthwhile topics on the main board; one was about NCAA booster violations that a fan is committing and another about the treatment of student-athletes by fans and how it impacts our recruiting. Both were deleted.

Look at the absolute hypocrisy committed by Josh Stoward when he posted personal information about me less than a week after he suspended an account and pinned a warning about doing that. Why was he given a free pass? Anytime that is mentioned, just like the other cases of hypocrisy by moderators, it is immediately deleted.

 

[GK4Herd]

Do you have any daughters that are single and of legal age?

Yes...and before you ask...no.

 

[herdfan06]

Yes...and before you ask...no.

It is because I am a ginger, isn't it?

 

[GK4Herd]

It is because I am a ginger, isn't it?

 

[Walden Pond]

After enduring this evening's hellish hour later of light, it made me glad I went hog wild last night and wasted all that money on gas to drive 800 total miles just for the hell of it.

Now the season of light. I've got 90% tint, not squinting, but still feel the chemicals shifting in my brain. And that's why I don't have and won't get my CCW.

Raleigh's a smart man. I remember him telling either me or greed that our greed makes us poorer. And it does. We're greedy. And it keeps us from having some better things. And in a poor man's loser kind of mentality. A mentality of scarcity, not of abundance. We need to work on it, although I'm sure I'm on the no fly list.

Well, time to blow 5 bucks on a bracket. Just bitching about how it's a waste of money is worth the 5 bucks.

 

[herdfan06]

After enduring this evening's hellish hour later of light, it made me glad I went hog wild last night and wasted all that money on gas to drive 800 total miles just for the hell of it.

Geeze, I hate driving 400 miles.

 

[Walden Pond]

It was about a 14 hour work day really. Resulted in a euphoric feeling. It's tough to get the chance to go all day at something, actually doing it yourself. Not watching others, not talking about it. Actually doing whatever it is.

This is where I start to envy the people who stock groceries in the graveyard shift, but then I realize robots could be doing that. Hell, robots could do my job too. Probably any job. They're all the same. Rules, guidelines. The only difference is in laying on the bullshit. Robots would eliminate it, resulting in a world so boring that most would cry. Hell, they already do.