(WE) Marshall fans believe we should be contending with the top of the G5 right???

[BleedsGreen33]

Well here is recruiting so far between Marshall and the upper teams of the G5.

Cincinnati - Currently ranked 51st with 16 verbals (two 4-stars, eleven 3-stars, zero unranked)
ECU - Currently ranked 53 with 22 verbals (one 4-star, eight 3-stars, two unranked)
UCF - Currently ranked 56th with 17 verbals (eleven 3-stars, zero unranked)
Boise - Currently ranked 72nd with 14 verbals (six 3-stars, zero unranked)
Memphis - Currently ranked 74th with 13 verbals (nine 3-stars, one unranked)

Marshall - Currently ranked 92nd with 16 verbals (two 3-stars, five unranked)

This is why we're getting our doors blown off by Cincy at home with their garbage time starting in the middle of the 3rd quarter. You can give me all the "well if you take the averages across all these other sites" or "we have to find the guys for our system" stuff all you want. That's all homeboarder, green kool-aide chugging postulation. I have facts. NCAA stat rankings, season W/L records, and championships to back up my side of the argument. Sure we have some good players. I'm inevitable going to get replies with the exception to the rule players we have, but they're not championship level good. They're not Top25 level good. If they are then we don't have enough of them or Doc and this staff should be walked directly after the bowl game because that tells me that are incapable of getting max production out of their personnel.

I am sure Doc will close good, but we're still a far cry from the early Doc years when we were finishing in the upper half of the G5 for recruits.

 

[banker6796]

I was on the sidelines for the Cincy game. It was scary how much bigger they were, looked like men against boys.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I was on the sidelines for the Cincy game. It was scary how much bigger they were, looked like men against boys.

I only sit about 17 rows back. It was painfully apparent from there too. Several of our players look like they should be playing D-II or FCS ball. Every Saturday I turn on games and see teams with players that are just jacked. Then you look at some of our guys and they look like they're suited up for a Friday Night HS game. I mean guys like Hodge, Yulee, and Cobb look the part, but several guys look like they are about 160 lbs soaking wet with two rocks in their pockets. It also doesn't help that we run CBs at S, safeties at LB, LBs at DE and DEs at DT either.

 

[whf2]

CBs and WRs are the glaring difference between MU and the top of G5 IMHO.

 

[mlblack16.]

Yeah, and if it wasn't for our abysmal conference, we would be getting pounded more often than we do now.

Could you imagine? It would be the Snyder years all over again. This difference/similarity has been discussed on here before, but there simply is almost no difference between John and Snyder. Place John in C-USA during the same years and get the same poor results.

John's only edge appeared to be his recruiting prowess, but with that now gone, were fvcked.

 

[MarshallSnare]

I don't understand why everyone puts so much trust into the 'star rating' system. Most of our biggest contributors over the last 10 years were 2 star recruits, or even walk-ons.

The real problem is that most of our highest rated recruits either never played a single down for the Herd, or didn't make it past their freshman year.

 

[beefcake0520]

Hartley and sieder( spelling?) Is the biggest reason our recruiting took a hit. For whatever reason we have not recruited at the same level since Hartley left.

 

[trace_94]

What has hurt us significantly is so many of the top recruits per class either never see the field/get kicked off the team or don’t pan out. Think about how great that 2011 class was. Practically every player from it contributed big time, hence why we had that much success from 2013-2015.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I don't understand why everyone puts so much trust into the 'star rating' system. Most of our biggest contributors over the last 10 years were 2 star recruits, or even walk-ons.

The real problem is that most of our highest rated recruits either never played a single down for the Herd, or didn't make it past their freshman year.

While star rankings aren't the be all and end all of they didn't matter at all then the top teams wouldn't be loaded with them.

Pretend all we want. Recruiting rankings correlate with success. You might have a low ranked team pop up every so often, but consistent championship teams recruit at the tops of their leagues.

Being 7th in CUSA isn't going to translate to anything, but more 3rd and 4th place finishes.

 

[Marine03]

Shit coach and now a shit recruiter. Wasn’t this Johns expertise at one time?

 

[Marine03]

While star rankings aren't the be all and end all of they didn't matter at all then the top teams wouldn't be loaded with them.

Pretend all we want. Recruiting rankings correlate with success. You might have a low ranked team pop up every so often, but consistent championship teams recruit at the tops of their leagues.

Being 7th in CUSA isn't going to translate to anything, but more 3rd and 4th place finishes.

Being 1st or 2nd in recruiting in CUSA hasn’t correlated in any success either. Maybe John has a new strategy?

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Being 1st or 2nd in recruiting in CUSA hasn’t correlated in any success either. Maybe John has a new strategy?

It still takes coaching. If you're coach is inept to win with the top classes he darn sure isn't with the 7th.

 

[mlblack16.]

Being 7th in CUSA isn't going to translate to anything, but more 3rd and 4th place finishes.

@Josh Stowers @Aaron Perkins and @The Real SamC

Great news fellas! You 3 jock sniffers will keep your Supa Fan ranking for quite some time.

 

[mlblack16.]

I don't understand why everyone puts so much trust into the 'star rating' system. Most of our biggest contributors over the last 10 years were 2 star recruits, or even walk-ons.

The real problem is that most of our highest rated recruits either never played a single down for the Herd, or didn't make it past their freshman year.

Part of what you're saying is certainly true, but you're making the assumption that John will figure out how to coach up these 2-star players.

 

[Josh Stowers]

@Josh Stowers @Aaron Perkins and @The Real SamC

Great news fellas! You 3 jock sniffers will keep your Supa Fan ranking for quite some time.

If you were half the fan you thought you were, you’d realize a couple things.

1) Marshall only signed 15 kids yesterday and will likely add another 8-10 kids to the mix.

2) Rivals will evaluate the HS kids at the end of the process as well as re-evaluate (and rank correctly) any players (namely JUCO) we request

3) Therefore, these are not the final rankings so you’ll have to wait a couple more months to whine and cry about it

 

[Herdmeister]

I was reading last night on CBS site that presently we have the 11th best class in CUSA and around 120th nationally. There were some FCS schools ahead of us.

 

[mlblack16.]

If you were half the fan you thought you were, you’d realize a couple things.

1) Marshall only signed 15 kids yesterday and will likely add another 8-10 kids to the mix.

2) Rivals will evaluate the HS kids at the end of the process as well as re-evaluate (and rank correctly) any players (namely JUCO) we request

3) Therefore, these are not the final rankings so you’ll have to wait a couple more months to whine and cry about it

You spinning this into something awesome?

Shocker.

 

[Josh Stowers]

You spinning this into something awesome?

Shocker.

How am I spinning anything?

Those are facts.

Marshall wasn’t in a much different position this time last year and ended up with the 2nd best class in the conference.

 

[Herdmeister]

You spinning this into something awesome?

Shocker.

Yep, once we get those next 8-10 in February, we will be rivaling Ohio State and Clemson.
Seriously, will be be better than 11th in CUSA? of course and will we be better than the present 120th? yep. But to spin this as a GREAT recruiting class, no way.

 

[Josh Stowers]

Yep, once we get those next 8-10 in February, we will be rivaling Ohio State and Clemson.
Seriously, will be be better than 11th in CUSA? of course and will we be better than the present 120th? yep. But to spin this as a GREAT recruiting class, no way.

You were referencing 247, a site that doesn’t even have all of our commits listed so don’t talk about recruiting.

Marshall is currently 7th in CUSA and 93rd nationally on Rivals. Since this is a Rivals board, then we’ll use what Rivals says.

Like I said earlier, once the other 8-10 kids are added and our current commits are re-evaluated, we’ll revisit your comments.

And no one used the word “GREAT,” so I don’t know what the hell you were even referencing.

 

[Marine03]

How am I spinning anything?

Those are facts.

Marshall wasn’t in a much different position this time last year and ended up with the 2nd best class in the conference.

2nd best we are good at. Check the standings for proof

 

[muthed]

I was reading last night on CBS site that presently we have the 11th best class in CUSA and around 120th nationally. There were some FCS schools ahead of us.

Hey. Right down there with the basketball ranking, huh Sam.

 

[Herdmeister]

Hey. Right down there with the basketball ranking, huh Sam.

I think 120 out of 130 is a bit different than 120 out of over 330

 

[Marshall Jeff]

I only see 2 kids from Florida.

 

[Herdmeister]

You were referencing 247, a site that doesn’t even have all of our commits listed so don’t talk about recruiting.

Marshall is currently 7th in CUSA and 93rd nationally on Rivals. Since this is a Rivals board, then we’ll use what Rivals says.

Like I said earlier, once the other 8-10 kids are added and our current commits are re-evaluated, we’ll revisit your comments.

And no one used the word “GREAT,” so I don’t know what the hell you were even referencing.

Gotcha. I have no idea about Rivals, I didn't see it when I Googled rankings. Of course we are always #1 or #2 in CUSA and that has led us to many conference titles in the worst football conference in America.
So will all the February signings be 4 star recruits? I hope so.

 

[trace_94]

It still takes coaching. If you're coach is inept to win with the top classes he darn sure isn't with the 7th.

Lack of development at QB is what’s staggering more than anything. Fun fact, in every single FBS conf title we’ve won since ‘97, our QB has never been lower than 2nd in their conference in passer efficiency rating. The highest season we’ve had for passer efficiency rating since Cato was Litton finishing 6th. QB play just has to improve.

 

[Josh Stowers]

I have no idea about Rivals, I didn't see it when I Googled rankings.

You're on a Rivals board.

 

[Herdmeister]

You're on a Rivals board.

I just knew it was Herd Nation

 

[The Real SamC]

Hey. Right down there with the basketball ranking, huh Sam.

You really are bad at reading comprehension.

You are comparing basketball’s NET score, which is a mathematical formula and reflects ON COURT performance with some incomplete opinions about recruiting.

If you want to do apples to apples, OK:

On court/field: MU’s current NET is an abysmal 242nd (out of 353). Most of the teams below MU are obscure HBCU, tiny bus-and-gym league members, and almost all are one-bid conferences. MU current position in the USA Today football ranking is 44th (out of 130). Below MU are such schools as UK, Pitt, UNC, and, WVU.

Recruiting: Josh explains the flaws in this much ado about nothing thread, but you really want to go to basketball recruiting? Really? Really? OK: Class of 18: Last. No Rivals recruits with any stars. Class of 19: tied for “3rd” with most everyone else in this s*** league. WKU is 1st with a 4* and a 3*, UNCC is 2nd with 2 3*, and the Herd is tied for 3rd with most everyone else with one 3*, UTEP and LTU being tied for “last” with a Marshall class of 18 like zero.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

CBs and WRs are the glaring difference between MU and the top of G5 IMHO.

And QB play.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

How am I spinning anything?

Those are facts.

Marshall wasn’t in a much different position this time last year and ended up with the 2nd best class in the conference.

That's the frustrating thing. We have some of the top talent in the league in football every year, yet 1 title in 10 years. Knowing that, it's clearly a coaching/player development issue. That and we get out coached a lot with in game adjustments.

 

[ucfMike]

Peace and greetings.

Just trying to be a voice of reason since we have the same discussions on our board about recruiting rankings all the time.

To be candid, I wouldn't too much stock in how Rivals is ranking players and/or classes. Few (if any) of these 'recruiting experts' would ever be hired by any D1 program as a talent scout or recruiting coordinator based on their abilities to evaluate players. Trust the experience of your coaches and their knowledge of what fits your system. Beyond that, it really comes down to player development, and Marshall has done a damn good job with that over the years (although I'm guessing a few on here might disagree).

When you go back to 2013, with the exception of 2016 (what the hell happened there?!), you guys have either gotten to or have had a legitimate chance to get to 10 wins each year if the ball had bounced differently for a few games. To me that says you're bringing in talent that's at the top of the conference.

Just give these players time to develop and mature their bodies before going all-in on whether or not the rating is worth any salt. Honestly, class rankings are like pre-season rankings - they're full of holes, and no one should give a $hit about them.

Anyway, hoping for a good game next week. It'll be a real treat to play you guys again. Enjoy the holidays!

 

[JudgeDD]

Peace and greetings.

Just trying to be a voice of reason since we have the same discussions on our board about recruiting rankings all the time.

To be candid, I wouldn't too much stock in how Rivals is ranking players and/or classes. Few (if any) of these 'recruiting experts' would ever be hired by any D1 program as a talent scout or recruiting coordinator based on their abilities to evaluate players. Trust the experience of your coaches and their knowledge of what fits your system. Beyond that, it really comes down to player development, and Marshall has done a damn good job with that over the years (although I'm guessing a few on here might disagree).

When you go back to 2013, with the exception of 2016 (what the hell happened there?!), you guys have either gotten to or have had a legitimate chance to get to 10 wins each year if the ball had bounced differently for a few games. To me that says you're bringing in talent that's at the top of the conference.

Just give these players time to develop and mature their bodies before going all-in on whether or not the rating is worth any salt. Honestly, class rankings are like pre-season rankings - they're full of holes, and no one should give a $hit about them.

Anyway, hoping for a good game next week. It'll be a real treat to play you guys again. Enjoy the holidays!

A welcomed voice of reason. Looking forward to Monday's game. Good luck, and happy holidays.

 

[mubaseballking]

And QB play.

As you stated, and the post you referenced, QB, WR, and CB are probably the best examples of the difference between Marshall and the top G5 teams. The drop off at these positions in the last 4 seasons is noticeable to even a blind man.

 

[BisonPa]

Below MU are such schools as UK, Pitt, UNC, and, WVU.

Ratings are always interesting because I doubt Marshall could beat any of those teams on the field.

 

[HerdyGurdyMan]

RIVALS has us at #91
https://n.rivals.com/team_rankings/2020/all-teams/Football

247 SPORTS has us at #121. One spot above Princeton.
https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/CompositeTeamRankings/

 

[muthed]

I think 120 out of 130 is a bit different than 120 out of over 330

I was just equating Sam's 11th ranked preseason bball poll to this 11th ranked recruiting poll.

 

[muthed]

You really are bad at reading comprehension.

You are comparing basketball’s NET score, which is a mathematical formula and reflects ON COURT performance with some incomplete opinions about recruiting.

If you want to do apples to apples, OK:

On court/field: MU’s current NET is an abysmal 242nd (out of 353). Most of the teams below MU are obscure HBCU, tiny bus-and-gym league members, and almost all are one-bid conferences. MU current position in the USA Today football ranking is 44th (out of 130). Below MU are such schools as UK, Pitt, UNC, and, WVU.

Recruiting: Josh explains the flaws in this much ado about nothing thread, but you really want to go to basketball recruiting? Really? Really? OK: Class of 18: Last. No Rivals recruits with any stars. Class of 19: tied for “3rd” with most everyone else in this s*** league. WKU is 1st with a 4* and a 3*, UNCC is 2nd with 2 3*, and the Herd is tied for 3rd with most everyone else with one 3*, UTEP and LTU being tied for “last” with a Marshall class of 18 like zero.

Damn Sam, I'm not into all of your analytics and semantics and other statistics. I'm only asking this... Why is being picked 11th in a preseason basketball poll when the season hasn't even been played yet a dismal ranking, but having the 11th ranked football recruiting class before all the other recruits come in February is an ok ranking?

 

[muthed]

And by the way Sam, after tonight, we'll be halfway to your 10 win threshold, with 20 games left in the regular season.

 

[riflearm2]

Beyond that, it really comes down to player development, and Marshall has done a damn good job with that over the years (although I'm guessing a few on here might disagree).

You'll have to explain that one.

For many years, Doc had the conference's top recruiting class year after year. Yet he was only able to win the conference once with all of those top classes. Now that he is getting classes ranked in the middle of the conference or lower, do you expect the staff to be able to develop less talent to a higher level than they were able to develop high talent?

Me neither.