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MARSHALL77

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UCF is off this weekend - add them and the AAC needs a 12th member....falls on deaf ears.

However - keep in mind the $$$ these schools have behind them , not playing in crumbling facilities nor when it comes to baseball traveling over 100 miles round trip to play a home game. What a shame when the AAC began to bring in more and more schools we were not in a position to move with the bulk of CUSA - anticipate Rice to be the next one to move from CUSA to the AAC. Great cities / great venues..oh what could have been with the right leadership in our athletic department.
 
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UCF is off this weekend - add them and the AAC needs a 12th member....falls on deaf ears.

However - keep in mind the $$$ these schools have behind them , not playing in crumbling facilities nor when it comes to baseball traveling over 100 miles round trip to play a home game. What a shame when the AAC began to bring in more and more schools we were not in a position to move with the bulk of CUSA - anticipate Rice to be the next one to move from CUSA to the AAC. Great cities / great venues..oh what could have been with the right leadership in our athletic department.

I've always been lukewarm on just how good the AAC is in football (yes it's better than CUSA) but in basketball there's no denying it's a very, very good league. UCONN and Memphis are down this year and the league is still 7th in RPI.
 
North Texas! On TV? Really 77. You will have to be satisfied watching live in the HC if you can make it. Hopefully a Herd win heading into the CUSA tournament.
 
Guys, why wait till Saturday? Right now watching a grudge match between two long time rivals, MAC teams Akron and Kent, on ESPN, the Deuce!! Been playing since something 1915-16, well over 100 meetings. Game before full house of 6000+ in Kent, OH- - -Billed as probably one of, if not the most, heated rivalries among all Mid-Major schools. Both teams have tough inside post play and defense, something not seen at the CAM. Oh, and tonight's game will probably draw a larger TV audience than all the HERD's televised games combined on the American Joke Network, and the BE-in or BE-out Networks, or whatever they are called!!!
 
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UCF is off this weekend - add them and the AAC needs a 12th member....falls on deaf ears.

However - keep in mind the $$$ these schools have behind them , not playing in crumbling facilities nor when it comes to baseball traveling over 100 miles round trip to play a home game. What a shame when the AAC began to bring in more and more schools we were not in a position to move with the bulk of CUSA - anticipate Rice to be the next one to move from CUSA to the AAC. Great cities / great venues..oh what could have been with the right leadership in our athletic department.


77...don't overlook CHARLOTTE leaving CUSA soon
. They have documented academic offerings and great facilities; $$$$$$$ in the bank; located in one of America's great cities; an international airport (Douglas) and soon they will have the largested student enrollment in North Carolina. A few folks on this forum made fun of Charlotte when they were granted an invitation to join CUSA...even some said their football sucked. Let me remind them...The 49ers defeated The HERD in Huntington last year (2016)....year two in Div. 1.

My prayers are Marshall will continue "to do more with less" and our loyal fans will play a major role of us being invited to a conference with teams located closer to West Virginia.

HerdZilla22 (Sweeney) in cold Charlotte
 
Interesting point as to how healthy the AAC is - Cincy is spending $60 million plus to renovate their existing hoops arena - $60 million to renovate not build a new one but "spruce" up the old one.

We can not compete with anyone in the AAC when it comes to finances and that is why people need to realize exactly who and what we have become. We had shot back when we moved from the ranks of 1-AA , then Boise ran away with the idea , we lagged behind made a bum decision or two ( AD and BP quitting then hiring Snyder ) never recouped from that then compounded the problem with the hiring of the current AD and a guy who would make a great coordinator but not there when it comes to being the head man (Holliday).

Smartest and most economical move Marshall could make - petition the So. Con for reinstatement . then again you have a few very well off ($$$) schools there , maybe we should consider Division 2..lol.
 
Don't laugh to soon 77. A huge question facing Marshall athletics - how long can we go on financially at this level with shrinking fan support not to mention shrinking population in Huntington and an shrinking local economy. Lot of businesses that once supported the Herd are gone. I see some tough times ahead.
 
Marshall77, its not just the AAC. Look in our conference, where North Texas spent about sixty million or so to build their new, Appogee, football stadium. Smaller than the Joan, but much more modern, greater and better fan amenities, facilities, etc. Same with Akron in the MAC with their new Infocision Stadium costing about $65 million overall. These schools spent more on football stadiums alone than it cost MU originally to build both Edwards Stadium AND the Henderson Center together, about $52-55 million.

Another example: in the "lowly" Colonial Conference, and playing in a lower level of football, FCS, James Madison has nevertheless spent something like $25-30 million to expand and upgrade Bridgeforth Stadium along I-81 in Harrisonburg. Again, about the same amount originally spent on Marshall Stadium. Same applies back in CUSA, where Western KY spent roughly the same amount on its Houchins football stadium! Back to JMU, check the school's website and see their presentation/plans for an $80 million, 8500 seat new Convocation Center and state of the art practice facility for its basketball programs!! And back at MU, we can't find enough money to upgrade and refurbish the embarrassing rest room facilities, or lack thereof, at both the Cam and the Joan!! Oh, and don't even mention our inability to find a couple hundred thousand dollars to put lights in our softball facility, which apparently were supposed to have been installed "shortly" about 5 years or so ago!!!
 
Marshall and money are like oil and water - does not mix.

Olde - your points are points I have made ( some of them) for years and then been criticized for either not being a "true fan" or having an agenda regarding the demise of Marshall athletics.

We built the football stadium , added boxes but fail to be able to adequately maintain not just the appearance but the facility as a whole and maintaining it is just as important as originally building it , especially at a school that often refers to itself as a pauper.

Hoops arena - renovate , good lord anywhere else that fire trap would have been torn down years ago , but not at Marshall , we get one shot at building something and then once if begins to show wear and tear ...we PATCH everything - Lighting / Sound system / floor / seating / concessions / rest rooms -- deplorable but yet in the minds of far too many who have no clue as to what it takes $$$ to keep things in check we are the Great Marshall..all bow down , bullpuckies , we are a joke , nothing close in reality to what too many THINK we are.

At some point you have to realize just what you are and Marshall is ( athletically) not a the football power ( for our size and previous division) we once were , we faced overall better competition as a AA School , the MAC / CUSA , not and never factors on the national scene regarding football or if per chance a team has a one in a hundred years season its a one time deal ( like 99) no history / tradition / continued being in the national spotlight.

Same for hoops - We had more going for us back in the days of the So. Con battles with UTC , Furman , Davidson than we do today and previously in the MAC.

Someday more will come to realize what I have known for years and years , nice school , decent academics , POOR when it comes to money to operate not only programs but facilities / in the wrong conference ( MAC and CUSA) needs to return the football to the ranks of 1-AA due to our year in and year out financial problems ( it would take 3-4 years to be on the level of those who compete annually for the 1-AA title , doubt that then obviously many do not pay attention to 1-aa programs and games)

AGAIN - you are what you are not what you think you are , wish you were , time for Marshall to stop dreaming about things that are not going to happen and find a niche and stick with it. All we have accomplished over the years has been a wasteful expenditure of $$ for what ? so the baseball program can travel 100+ miles to play a home game - patch the Cam and its a mess , the Joan vs adding boxes needed and needs some serious maintenance.

The experiment has been costly and is / has really failed - Boise moved on , we went in reverse as well as wasted so much of what little money we have its almost sinful - Stop the insanity and work to develop a plan to be successful at the level as well as conference we belong in which many here realize but will not say.
 
This is about the worst thread ever.

Fact is MU bled money during I-AA. I-AA is a money losing proposition. The black hole of I-AA is why the so-called group of 5 have to remain right where they are. I-AA is a money pit. The more you win, the more you pay. And nobody cares.

"Patch the Cam". With what? The state is broke, the school is broke, the town is beyond broke.

"Build a baseball park". See above.
 
Another thing not being mentioned, most of the schools outside the AAC that's being discussed here: What is the budget, what percentage of it is from subsidy? what would MU's be if we used the same subsidy..................its all about perspective. I guess it was a good timing when the stadium etc was built, even to get what we currently have would cost what the others schools recently gave for theirs......
 
That is simply incorrect.

MU receives $5M in the university budget, uses $2.5M in tuition waivers and $4.5M in student fees for $11.8M. I assume you call this a "loss". It is properly called an "investment".

After you consider the money donated by former athletes, the tuition, fees and room and borad paid by partial scholarships and walk-ons, and the payment by the AD to Housing, bookstore, and other student fees for full scholarships, the "loss" (investment) is $4.8M, of which all but $300K is the student fee.

If you want to assume students will be OK with continuing to pay $4.8M in fees to watch I-AA or Div II sports, then you have "saved" a whopping $300K. If not, then the savings is less.

The material is on the finance office's website.
 
MU receives $5M in the university budget, uses $2.5M in tuition waivers and $4.5M in student fees for $11.8M. I assume you call this a "loss". It is properly called an "investment".

Arright, I'll be your Huckleberry here and see if I can't untangle your logic....

Direct Institutional Support AKA Straight Cash Homey - $5 million. This is $5,000,000 the university gives to the athletic department to pay AD salaries, facilities, etc. At this point, Marshall University no longer has that $5,000,000. -$5,000,000

Tuition Wavers - $2.5 million. This is $2.5 million in student costs that the university absorbs so the athletic department does not have to pay it. All of those costs still exist so, so at this point, Marshall University no longer has that $2,500,000. -$7,500,000

Student Fees - $4.5 million. Oh, thank heavens - our poor cash-strapped institution doesn't have to pay this part. Our 13,000 students do though, to the tune of $356 a head for season tickets to all Marshall sporting events (including baseball!) that less than a third of our students ever actually use (based on student sections in football and basketball). Fret not, though, because if there's anything I know about modern college students, its that they're fine with college costing more! Marshall gets to keep its money! -$7,500,000

So now we're all dick-deep in debt to the tune of about $12 million, but that's okay, because its an investment, right? That means revenue is going to come in and offset all this, and by your statement, we'll only have about a $300,000 loss. Here comes $3.5 million in ticket sales, we'll just give that back to SPENT IT. Oh, crap....well, we have $3.7 million in donations from well-heeled Alumni SPENT IT. Uhm...$5.8 million in licensing and SPENT IT.

Marshall's athletic department doesn't have a savings account. It doesn't write checks back to the school. Every penny that comes in as revenue goes right back out as an expense, and at the end of the year they aim for a $0 balance, ready to start the whole cycle anew. Sure, there was $12 million in there that didn't come from people paying for things they wanted, but those parties just need to be told this is an investment, and someday there will be a return.

Probably wouldn't hold my breath though; since 2005, the commercial side of Marshall's revenue (the part where people are willingly paying money) has increased by over $5.6 million. So that meant the subsidy went down, right? Nope, it increased by $5 million.

Truth is, this is our version of the "WVU turns a profit" Mountaineer fan. You use some shady math, squint a little so you don't see the numbers, and convince yourself that certain multi-million-dollar expenditures just originate from the ether and don't need to appear on the balance sheet. Modern collegiate athletic system is run on someone else's dime, and if it were held to the same Capitalist standard as freaking minor league baseball, half the "franchises" in the NCAA would go out of business yesterday.

For more info:

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
 
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1
Intercollegiate Athletics at Marshall University
April 2016
Prepared by Departments of Institutional Research and Planning, Athletics,
Finance and University Communications
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Introduction
Believing intercollegiate athletics is an important part of the college experience for all students and that some
level of institutional support is appropriate, Marshall University’s Board of Governors last year reaffirmed a set
of Institutional Priorities that included establishing and maintaining a competitive Division I athletic program
with high academic standards for student-athletes. [Source: Meeting minutes, Marshall University Board of Governors, April 29, 2015]
President Jerome A. Gilbert has made a commitment to budget transparency and to maintaining an open
dialogue with all stakeholders, and this white paper has been prepared at his direction. President Gilbert has
pledged to work with the Department of Athletics to stabilize its budget.
This document is intended to start a discussion with the campus community by: 1) establishing transparency
regarding the university’s budget for athletic programs; 2) comparing the level of institutional support for
athletic programs at Marshall with peer institutions; and 3) answering some of the most-frequently asked
questions about funding intercollegiate athletics at Marshall University.
The Bottom Line
Q. What is Marshall’s annual budget for athletics? What are the sources of funding?
A. As reported to Conference USA, Marshall’s 2015-16 budget for intercollegiate athletics totals $27.2 million.
The sources of funds include $15.4 million in self-generated revenue from private donations, marketing and
media rights, bowl game revenues, parking and concessions, ticket sales, private suite rentals and Conference
USA income. The remaining $11.8 million of the budget is institutional support, including student auxiliary fees
and tuition waivers. As show in Chart A, this compares favorably among the 14 Conference USA peer
institutions.
Chart A - Department of Athletics budget and comparison with C-USA (FY2016)
SOURCE OF FUNDS Marshall Budget
for Athletics
Conference USA
Average Budget
(14 institutions)
Marshall’s Rank in
Conference USA
(out of 14 institutions)
Self-Generated Dollars $15.4M (57%) $11.6M (43%) 3rd best/highest
Institutional Support $11.8M (43%) $15.6M (57%) 4th best/lowest
Total Athletics Budget $27.2M (100%) $27.2M (100%)
[Source: Conference USA Budget Survey FY2016]
Q. What is the university’s net investment in athletics?
A. As shown in Chart B, below, the net investment Marshall makes in intercollegiate athletics each year is
approximately $4.8 million, or $0.3 million minus the student auxiliary fees that pay for student tickets to
athletic events, etc.

2
Chart B – Marshall University’s net investment in athletics (FY2015-16)
Institutional allocation to Department of Athletics $5M
Tuition waivers for student-athletes $2.3M
Student auxiliary fees $4.5M
Total Institutional Support = $11.8M
Payments from Department of Athletics back to institution for scholarships (Chart C) ($3M)
Payments by student-athletes directly to institution for tuition, housing, board (Chart D) ($4M)
Net Investment (with student auxiliary fees*) = $4.8M
Net Investment (minus student auxiliary fees) = $0.3M
*Student tickets for athletic events, etc.
Breakdown: The Department of Athletics returns approximately $3 million/year in scholarship
payments to the university’s general coffers (Chart C). In addition, current and former student-
athletes—including walk-ons and those who have exhausted their eligibility and/or stay on for graduate
studies—directly pay the university approximately $4 million/year for tuition, room and board, exclusive
of any financial aid awarded the student (Chart D).
Chart C - Payments from Department of Athletics back to institution for scholarships (2014-15)
Tuition Housing Board Total
Athletic Funds $1,267,926 $ 92,497 $123,805 $1,484,229
Institutional Funds $ 791,365 $411,456 $307,248 $1,510,069
Total $2,059,292 $503,953 $431,053 $2,994,298
[Source: Marshall University Department of Athletics]
Chart D - Payments by current and former student-athletes directly to institution
(Fall 2014-Summer 2015)
Sport Tuition Housing Board Grand Totals
Athletic Managers $ 164,107.61 $ 62,724.40 $ 42,513.33 $ 269,345.34
Baseball 234,930.15 75,377.00 40,695.00 351,002.15
Cheerleading 243,754.64 71,963.45 41,914.00 357,632.09
Football 306,843.99 112,259.89 66,310.51 485,414.39
Former Athletes* 1,003,584.10 37,744.15 26,610.25 1,067,938.50
Men's Basketball 25,992.50 18,405.49 8,279.50 52,677.49
Men's Golf 54,851.50 31,637.00 19,209.00 105,697.50
Men's Track & XC 54,886.74 25,187.32 11,429.00 91,503.06
Men's Soccer 153,553.32 61,477.15 31,226.00 246,256.47
Softball 70,465.09 42,800.00 23,462.00 136,727.09
Swimming 122,980.45 58,262.54 39,154.20 220,397.19
Volleyball 23,447.00 11,269.00 7,659.45 42,375.45
Women's Basketball - 50.00 - 50.00
Women's Golf 28,966.75 17,344.00 7,261.75 53,572.50
Women's Soccer 98,981.00 65,327.50 37,798.00 202,106.50
Women's Tennis 711.00 235.00 300.00 1,246.00
Women's Track & XC 163,635.30 108,045.31 44,894.44 316,575.05
Totals $ 2,751,691.14 $ 800,109.20 $ 448,716.43 $ 4,000,516.77
*Includes students on partial scholarships and non-scholarship student-athletes (walk-ons). Excludes any institutional financial aid awarded
the students. [Source: Marshall University Office of Institutional Research]

3
Other FAQs
Q. How were Marshall’s new athletics facilities funded?
A. Marshall has opened a number of athletics facilities since 2013, including the Hoops Family Field at the
Veterans Memorial Soccer Complex and the Chris Cline Athletic Complex (Indoor Athletic Facility/Jeff Small
Track, Buck Harless Student-Athlete Academic Center, Marshall Sports Medicine Institute and Chad Pennington
Athletic Hall of Fame). These facilities were funded entirely by $30 million in private donations raised through
the Vision Campaign and facilities fees collected from ticket sales for football and men’s basketball.
Q. What are “cost of attendance” allowances and how are they provided?
A. Upon advice from the university’s legal counsel and in line with other Conference USA institutions, Marshall
this year began providing scholarship student-athletes “cost of attendance” allowances. These allowances are
intended to cover some of the miscellaneous costs of attending school, including transportation, meals,
toiletries and other living expenses. The cost to Marshall to provide the allowances is approximately
$450,000/year and is covered entirely from private donations and allocations from the NCAA and Conference
USA.
Q. How are salaries for athletics staff and coaches funded?
A. Some Department of Athletics staff members are paid from the institutional allocation. All coaches and the
remaining staff are paid from other Department of Athletics accounts.
Q. How much has the Department of Athletics contributed to closing the university’s budget gap this year?
A. As shown in Chart E, the Department of Athletics contributed $300,000 of the $2.6 million needed to close
the FY2015-16 budget gap.
Chart E - FY2016 $2.6M gap closure items
INTO additional revenue 100,000
Athletics transfer 300,000
Pharmacy transfer 500,000
Rapid Response Team net revenue 290,380
E-course transfer 350,000
Academic vacancy savings/delayed hiring 418,813
Direct Expenditures reductions 91,369
Institutional vacancy savings/contingency balances 589,889
Total 2,640,451 [Source: Marshall University Department of Finance and Budget Work Group, March 29, 2016]

4
Q. What is the profile of Marshall’s student-athletes?
A. Student-athletes make up nearly 7% of Marshall’s full-time, undergraduate student body. As shown in Chart
F below, they are enrolled in every college of the university.
Chart F - Enrollment of Marshall Student-Athletes by College (Fall 2015)
Student-Athletes* Total FT
Undergraduate
MU College Count % of Total Enrollment
College of Arts and Media 13 2.7% 490
College of Business 133 13.1% 1012
College of Education 34 3.6% 953
College of Health Professions 175 8.4% 2094
College of Info Tech and Engr 12 2.5% 476
College of Liberal Arts 26 2.8% 916
College of Science 76 5.4% 1413
University College 53 12.7% 418
Board of Regents (RBA) 4 2.5% 158
Grand Total 526 6.6% 7930
*Full-time, undergraduate, degree-seeking students only. “Athletes” includes current and former athletes enrolled
fall 2015. [Source: Marshall University Office of Institutional Research and Planning]
In the classroom, Marshall’s student-athletes stack up favorably with non-athletes.
Specifically:
• In fall 2015, 11 of 14 sports teams had term GPAs of 3.0 or higher. The other three teams had term
GPAs of at least 2.5.
• More than half of Marshall’s student-athletes have a cumulative GPA of 3.0 or higher.
• Last year, Thundering Herd tennis and outdoor track and field teams academically were in the top
10% nationally in their sports, with perfect 1000 scores in the multi-year measurements. Eight Herd
programs posted perfect single-year scores of 1000 in the retention measurement, with two others
at 986. Eleven programs had perfect scores in eligibility/graduation. [Source: 2013-14 NCAA Division I Academic
Progress Rate report]
Student-athletes contribute substantially to the diversity of the student body at Marshall. In fall 2015, student-
athletes made up approximately 18% of the university’s black, undergraduate student population and about
13% of Marshall’s total non-white, undergraduate student population. [Source: Marshall University Office of Institutional
Research and Planning]
 
That is simply incorrect.

MU receives $5M in the university budget, uses $2.5M in tuition waivers and $4.5M in student fees for $11.8M. I assume you call this a "loss". It is properly called an "investment".

After you consider the money donated by former athletes, the tuition, fees and room and borad paid by partial scholarships and walk-ons, and the payment by the AD to Housing, bookstore, and other student fees for full scholarships, the "loss" (investment) is $4.8M, of which all but $300K is the student fee.

If you want to assume students will be OK with continuing to pay $4.8M in fees to watch I-AA or Div II sports, then you have "saved" a whopping $300K. If not, then the savings is less.

The material is on the finance office's website.
Robbing Peter to pay Paul is hardly an investment.
 
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Payments by student-athletes directly to institution for tuition, housing, board (Chart D) ($4M)

According to this, Marshall makes more money from kids paying to play sports at Marshall than it does from people paying money to see those athletes play.
 
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Robbing Peter to pay Paul is hardly an investment.

It is, if you want to have athletics. I do. Apparently you do not.

Despite what the talking heads left liberals at ESPN spew out about "exploited athletes" and all of that ho-ha, college athletics, when you do all the math and consider all the sports you have to offer by NCAA rules and Title IX, is not a big money maker for all but the most elite schools, and that only when you do the accounting trick that most schools do of taking facilities, facility maintance, athlete health care, and most of the travel, off-budget (which is where WVU's delusional lie of being "self-supporting" comes from).

According the the Washington Post, of the 52 public schools in the so-called "power 5" in 2014, 32 lost money. Including names like Auburn, Ole Miss, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Maryland, UCLA, Arizona, WVU,and EVERY ACC team. Rutgers lost $1 per second. And the total profit of ALL so-called "power 5" programs added together was less than Ohio State makes from patents it owns via hard science research. That is the reality. And remember even this is based on taking facilities and the rest off-budget.

So, if you want sports, you have to accept that it COSTS MONEY. Marshall loses money at it. So does WVU, so does Concord, so does all but the top 20 to 30 elite schools.

BTW, last year North Dakota State, the elite school of I-AA, lost (invested) $2.2M of state money and $2.2M in student fees in being about what Marshall was, 20 years ago.

I want athletics. If you don't there are plenty of other things for you to do.
 
It is, if you want to have athletics. I do. Apparently you do not.

Despite what the talking heads left liberals at ESPN spew out about "exploited athletes" and all of that ho-ha, college athletics, when you do all the math and consider all the sports you have to offer by NCAA rules and Title IX, is not a big money maker for all but the most elite schools, and that only when you do the accounting trick that most schools do of taking facilities, facility maintance, athlete health care, and most of the travel, off-budget (which is where WVU's delusional lie of being "self-supporting" comes from).

According the the Washington Post, of the 52 public schools in the so-called "power 5" in 2014, 32 lost money. Including names like Auburn, Ole Miss, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Illinois, Purdue, Maryland, UCLA, Arizona, WVU,and EVERY ACC team. Rutgers lost $1 per second. And the total profit of ALL so-called "power 5" programs added together was less than Ohio State makes from patents it owns via hard science research. That is the reality. And remember even this is based on taking facilities and the rest off-budget.

So, if you want sports, you have to accept that it COSTS MONEY. Marshall loses money at it. So does WVU, so does Concord, so does all but the top 20 to 30 elite schools.

BTW, last year North Dakota State, the elite school of I-AA, lost (invested) $2.2M of state money and $2.2M in student fees in being about what Marshall was, 20 years ago.

I want athletics. If you don't there are plenty of other things for you to do.

Nice straw man debate Sam. I never said that I wasn't interested in athletics or didn't want athletics. I just said robbing Peter to pay Paul was not an investment.

Your long-winded response finally got to my point. Marshall loses money on athletics (along with all of the other P5 schools you mentioned). Again, I repeat, that can hardly be classified as an investment.

What you omitted was that many Division I schools are spending tremendous sums of monies on upgrading facilities and using future TV revenues as collateral and/or payment. Because of those expenditures, balance sheets show a net loss for the fy. Spending money on capital expenditures is what I call an "investment."

Robbing Peter to pay Paul to minimize the losses accrued by the athletic department is not, in my opinion, an "investment." It is a cost of doing business and one that the Marshall BOG has been willing to do forever. But feel free continuing to refer to it as an investment if it makes you feel better.
 
As noted, most every state university carries facilities off-budget, so the cost of said facilities do not show up in the discussion of athletic budgets in the first place.
 
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