What will fracking do for West Virginia?
- Thread starter Walden Pond
- Start date
They get pissed when their 401K tanks too.
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Wow! Do you guys read? And by read, I mean something other than the headlines of your local newspaper.
I'm guessing you consider yourselves progressive because you switched from Fox News to CNN.
Maybe you're still pissed because you think the Tobacco Companies got a raw deal or better yet you think the Financial Crisis of 2008 was just a "correction" of the markets.
You probably blame the ongoing Mortgage Crisis on "Those" people who had no business getting mortgages in the first place.
Trust me, I'm no environmentalist crackpot or anti-corporation. I just think we/they can minimize the impact we have on the environment for the generations to come. In the giant shell game between the Gas/Oil/Coal Industry and the environmentalists, the general population, you & I, are caught in the middle. Environmental groups scream recycle, drive fuel efficient cars, turn down the thermostat 2 degrees, etc. and Gas/Oil/Coal scream yeah, yeah, yeah, it's on you. While important, (And everyone should try to do their part) our behavior is a very small part in the battle against CO2 emissions, Climate Change, and overall preservation of the planet.
I just jumped in on this post because someone started the discussion.
I'm much more concerned and interested in the issues with our Financial Markets. Thanks to the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999 we are going on 15 years of Investment Banks/Wall Street running amuck. If you think B of A, Chase, Citi, etc. have your financial well being as their best interest, you haven't been paying attention. If you do a little research, you'll discover that their behavior isn't capitalistic, it's actually anti-capitalistic and anti-free market.
Anyway, discussions like this are great.....I might learn something, maybe you will too.
They're even more important on a day like today......Get out and vote!
If it's such a small part, why waste our time inconveniencing ourselves for it?
People want to alleviate guilt or something. I don't feel guilty for being born. I
may wish I hadn't been, but by someone else's doing I'm here and I'm a person.
People are dirty. We pollute. I'm not going to apologize for that.
United States of Apologies is what we've become, weak and ripe for the taking over
by somebody stronger, tougher and unapologetic.
Cars and their emissions are a significant issue. I only say "small part" in regards to our individual impact in comparison to Corporations.
We don't need to feel guilty for living but we need to do a better job of holding corporations accountable. I'm certainly not against profits but how much profit is enough? Can Exxon Mobil squeak by on $300 Billion vs $500 Billion in revenue?
We don't need to feel guilty for living but we need to do a better job of holding corporations accountable. I'm certainly not against profits but how much profit is enough? Can Exxon Mobil squeak by on $300 Billion vs $500 Billion in revenue?
How much safer, how much cleaner and how much more does it cost?
People have crunched the numbers on all this. Somehow, you don't think the current
standards are suitable.
What's your proposed alternative?
Without a good answer to this, it sounds like you're just bitter about
someone else's success.
People have crunched the numbers on all this. Somehow, you don't think the current
standards are suitable.
What's your proposed alternative?
Without a good answer to this, it sounds like you're just bitter about
someone else's success.
Thanks for playing. My initial thoughts confirmed yet again.
Jealous of success and craving a warm and fuzzy feeling of
sticking it to someone in the name of saving the planet.
For someone who claims to be cocky, this sure reeks of
middle aged embittered soccer mom material.
Jealous of success and craving a warm and fuzzy feeling of
sticking it to someone in the name of saving the planet.
For someone who claims to be cocky, this sure reeks of
middle aged embittered soccer mom material.
Amazing insight Cocky. Actually I don't read the paper, watch Fox news, or CNN for gods sake. If I did, I most likely would repeat verbatim what you just typed. You repeat the clichéd uneducated "evil corporation" responses that I can look up and repeat most any day reading the Huffington Post. It takes no skill or major effort to do so. I might as well read Dherd replies.
If you are concerned about financial markets read some actual history. You seem to know nothing about market history as a whole. If you did you would know that these types of crises happen in markets every so many years (heavily regulated or not). They are not new or limited to just this country. There have been several major panics or "corrections" (your word) since the formation of this country. Some dealt with currency, some dealt with debt, some dealt with commodity crisis, some dealt with overall economic stagnation, some dealt with international markets.
Ironically, people such as yourself would actually cry at an even higher level if "free markets" truly existed. Learn something here: "Free markets" aren't regulated. Free markets are not fully transparent. Free markets aren't fair to the small guy. Free markets allow for no holds barred, unbridled, take no prisoner, crush the weak, capitalism. Free markets would most likely not have given a compassionate home loan to someone without income because the govt wouldn't have guaranteed the reimbursement. You would know this if you actually knew business and financial history. You have no idea that in one single reply you contradict everything you claim to actually support. And you do it out of ignorance. The very regulation and anti corporate clichés you promote actually result expanding and strengthening the inequalities and causes for such inequalities you continually (mis)represent.
Of course this is why we get the pandering political elites who actually rely on a whole class of misinformed voter on election day. Voters such as yourself don't understand that their demands for govt "protection", from their boogie man of choice, end up corrupting their own utopian dreams of equal outcomes for all.
Feel free to list the other "major" panics throughout our financial history. I'll give you a hint, if you start with October 1989, you're an idiot. Outside of the depression , nothing in history compares to the financial crisis of 2008 both in size and scope. Even 6 years later the impact is still being felt across the country.
Here's another news flash for you Mr. Buffett. These "panics, corrections, and financial crisis" aren't some natural occurring weather event, they are significant events in our financial history caused by greed and corruption.
You are just another "free market fanatic" who's clearly been brainwashed into believing that the term "free market" really means free.
Please feel free to educate us on the benefits of the Libor Fixing scandal or the JP Morgan Chase ties to the Bernie Madoff scandal. How about Chase and Barclays being fined over $400 million dollars for manipulating the delivery of electricity or Goldman Sachs manipulating the price of aluminum.
Sounds like a free capitalist market to me. As long as you're an investment banker.
Here's another news flash for you Mr. Buffett. These "panics, corrections, and financial crisis" aren't some natural occurring weather event, they are significant events in our financial history caused by greed and corruption.
You are just another "free market fanatic" who's clearly been brainwashed into believing that the term "free market" really means free.
Please feel free to educate us on the benefits of the Libor Fixing scandal or the JP Morgan Chase ties to the Bernie Madoff scandal. How about Chase and Barclays being fined over $400 million dollars for manipulating the delivery of electricity or Goldman Sachs manipulating the price of aluminum.
Sounds like a free capitalist market to me. As long as you're an investment banker.
1) The various panics and failures surrounding the collapse of the U.S. Bank in the early 19th Century were worse.
2) The various banking houses, etc... you list all were protected by the Obama Justice department from prosecution.
3) As any business owner will tell you the idea that our current market is "free" is laughable.
This post was edited on 11/4 3:37 PM by wvkeeper(HN)
2) The various banking houses, etc... you list all were protected by the Obama Justice department from prosecution.
3) As any business owner will tell you the idea that our current market is "free" is laughable.
This post was edited on 11/4 3:37 PM by wvkeeper(HN)
1) Relative to the size of the economy, true. No government bailout either.
2) true. Just a continuation of the status quo regardless of the administration. Something that continues today.
3) true. Especially for small business. Not so true in regards to investment banks. They've created their own version of a free market.
2) true. Just a continuation of the status quo regardless of the administration. Something that continues today.
3) true. Especially for small business. Not so true in regards to investment banks. They've created their own version of a free market.
How about we start with 1837, 1857, 1873, 1893....or maybe 1907, or possibly....'29??? Would you also like to open a discussion of financial crises that also pre-dated this period throughout European history in order to understand financial cycles too? Hint: they all involved banks and various businesses and industries.
"Nothing compares in history...." is a complete farce of a statement reiterated by someone who has no real education or experience in the subject because they were most likely born in the 1980s.
Panics, bubbles, booms, busts, bulls, bears...... actually are "natural occurrences" when one has the understanding of the premise that all cycles (whether they be financial/economic.... or the weather) always end up occurring over and over and over again. The simple fact that human beings are involved in financial/economic cycles, makes such happenings as market panics/crashes/depressions/expansions/bull markets, etc.etc........."natural". Have you ever heard the saying "what goes up, must come down."? Fear, greed, are indeed all a part of such natural cycles that will inevitably be repeated. And no amount of legislative, regulative environment will eradicate such emotions which foster the environment for these outcomes.
Of course, the only difference between these historical panics is what naïve, myopic, reactive bureaucratic regulation will be created. Sold to the masses as protection, they end up preventing the common man from actually participating in the recovery from any such down cycle, ultimately widening the gap between haves and have nots by creating more loopholes and derivative markets in which new/old cycles can be repeated.
You continue to prove you have no idea what you are even arguing against. You're left to change the premise of the discussion in an attempt to suggest I support illegal/unethical activity in the current (non) free markets and project some idiotic free market fanatic left wing MSNBC tripe, despite advocating a "free" market system in a previous post. You are embarrassing yourself. I take the "Buffet" comment as a compliment. Despite his being a life long democrat he is a financial genius everyone should try and immolate.............not ignorantly try and use his name as a sarcastic put down.
If you had the slightest understanding of what you are discussing you would be decrying the Crony Capitalist system (produced by political affiliations of all persuasions, not simply the ones you vote against), not simply whining against business and corporations as a whole, and demanding a truly free market system. Of course you cant do that either, because "free" wont guarantee "fairness" or equal outcomes, promised by certain political hacks, for all who step into the arena of business.
This ultimately leaves business owners like myself playing the game that's still available in the system that exists while listening and reading morons suggest that some profits are good and others are bad (demonstrating their hypocritical greed for judging what another should be allowed to earn).
Undermines your own assertion that...... "no other time in history" huh?
No government bailout???? LMAO. Just because there wasn't a term of "TARP" or "QE" during the 1800's economic implosions or panics doesn't mean there were not govt bailouts involved. The creation of US Govt bond and the markets in which they trade were created almost exclusively to help "refund", "bail out", "save", "reimburse", "write-down", "prop up" important failed/failing institutions/banks/businesses linked to the US economy since the country's inception. Virtually the exact same thing that occurred during this last economic crisis, just with new cute, catchy names for the bailout involving the sale of additional debt as an "investment" by the govt.
I would add that the $$$ paid to the banks during this last bailout by the Fed Reserv in order to prop them up during the liquidity crush has been paid back with interest.....but please continue with your misinformed assertions.
I think you misinterpret what I'm saying about regulation and free markets.
1) I'm not advocating true free markets. It'll never happen and I'm fairly certain our economy wouldn't survive a true free market.
2) I'm not advocating additional regulation either. I'd appreciate enforcement of the laws and regulations we already have. (I think you pointed out in a previous post that no one was prosecuted from the 2008 crisis) Although the government did finally hold some accountable during TARP. I think 50+ have gone to jail so far. TARP was a necessary evil to prop up the banks but in the end wasn't used as intended. It saved the banks but didn't improve the plight that the crisis caused. They paid it back but most paid it back by issuing equities based securities.
What I'm really advocating (actually voiced due to utter frustration) is a fair playing field. Chase,Citi, B&A,etc are allowed to play by different set of rules. In 25+ years of running a small business I've tried to do everything right and play within the heavy rules and regulations placed upon the small guy. In reality the "small" guy could include companies with hundreds of employees.
The frustration comes that the playing field will never be level. More regulation, less regulation it's not going to matter, the big boys play by their own set of rules. And it's not getting better.
I've been very lucky. I have a successful business with great employees and good clients. I'm not sure my nearly grown kids are going to be lucky enough to have the same opportunity.
What's great about discussions like this, if you can sort through the BS and you take the time to have an open mind, it gives you different points of view and allows you to step back and think.
One thing venting on boards like this it enables business people to get your frustrations off your chest. Not always in the most coherent way but they're out.
While I'd certainly like more enforcement of the regulations and laws that we do have. In the end, maybe less regulation is what we need in the hopes that it will trickle down to small business. Since the big guys aren't held accountable either way.
Certainly a good night for the discussion.
1) I'm not advocating true free markets. It'll never happen and I'm fairly certain our economy wouldn't survive a true free market.
2) I'm not advocating additional regulation either. I'd appreciate enforcement of the laws and regulations we already have. (I think you pointed out in a previous post that no one was prosecuted from the 2008 crisis) Although the government did finally hold some accountable during TARP. I think 50+ have gone to jail so far. TARP was a necessary evil to prop up the banks but in the end wasn't used as intended. It saved the banks but didn't improve the plight that the crisis caused. They paid it back but most paid it back by issuing equities based securities.
What I'm really advocating (actually voiced due to utter frustration) is a fair playing field. Chase,Citi, B&A,etc are allowed to play by different set of rules. In 25+ years of running a small business I've tried to do everything right and play within the heavy rules and regulations placed upon the small guy. In reality the "small" guy could include companies with hundreds of employees.
The frustration comes that the playing field will never be level. More regulation, less regulation it's not going to matter, the big boys play by their own set of rules. And it's not getting better.
I've been very lucky. I have a successful business with great employees and good clients. I'm not sure my nearly grown kids are going to be lucky enough to have the same opportunity.
What's great about discussions like this, if you can sort through the BS and you take the time to have an open mind, it gives you different points of view and allows you to step back and think.
One thing venting on boards like this it enables business people to get your frustrations off your chest. Not always in the most coherent way but they're out.
While I'd certainly like more enforcement of the regulations and laws that we do have. In the end, maybe less regulation is what we need in the hopes that it will trickle down to small business. Since the big guys aren't held accountable either way.
Certainly a good night for the discussion.
Well according to the results of this Election and the Republicans out to stop the "War on Coal" they better stop all this silly fracking... LOL...
Sometimes I just put my cell phone up to my ear
for a few minutes even though nobody's on there.
They used to say you'd get ear cancer. Here's to hoping.
More likely to get eye cancer from reading this foolishness.
for a few minutes even though nobody's on there.
They used to say you'd get ear cancer. Here's to hoping.
More likely to get eye cancer from reading this foolishness.
Fumbducky, fracking will make me live out the rest of my days very well. I was left with 4 leases in Tyler County and it looks like it will pay off very soon. If they do hit before I retire next year, I wont have a thing to worry about the rest of my life. I will just go out to Greenwood Cemetery just outside of Sistersville and do a jig on my grandmother and grandfathers grave and thank them.
Gonna move to Beverly Hills?
People don't take too kindly to snobs in Hick Town.
Back in Lesage, anybody who ever came into money was looked at as an idiot
who would have never had shit if he had to get it on his own.
This post was edited on 11/9 8:41 PM by Walden Pond
People don't take too kindly to snobs in Hick Town.
Back in Lesage, anybody who ever came into money was looked at as an idiot
who would have never had shit if he had to get it on his own.
This post was edited on 11/9 8:41 PM by Walden Pond
Probably the main road snobs. Route 2 is for the rich.
Big Seven Mile's got some rich people. So does Union Ridge.
Holy shit, Nine Mile was the poorest bunch of hillbillies of 'em all.
We were the lowest. I like the sound of that.
Big Seven Mile's got some rich people. So does Union Ridge.
Holy shit, Nine Mile was the poorest bunch of hillbillies of 'em all.
We were the lowest. I like the sound of that.
