Which one is better?

[RhinoD]

I've been on herdnation since the beginning and I have never "ignored" anyone, because at the end of the day no matter how absurd an argument is, we are all Marshall fans at heart... But I don't know how much more of this I want to waste my life reading.

I might just pony up for the premium board, if someone can verify for me that Sam doesn't post over there.

 

[caliherd]

I've been on herdnation since the beginning and I have never "ignored" anyone, because at the end of the day no matter how absurd an argument is, we are all Marshall fans at heart... But I don't know how much more of this I want to waste my life reading.

I might just pony up for the premium board, if someone can verify for me that Sam doesn't post over there.

He doesn’t

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I've been on herdnation since the beginning and I have never "ignored" anyone, because at the end of the day no matter how absurd an argument is, we are all Marshall fans at heart... But I don't know how much more of this I want to waste my life reading.

I might just pony up for the premium board, if someone can verify for me that Sam doesn't post over there.

I can't recall ever seeing him over there.

 

[muthed]

Wrong. By “championship” do you mean conference, or national? Either way, of the 130 I-A teams, probably 100, maybe 110, have zero shot at the national championship. Certainly many don’t even have a shot at their conference. You think UK or Vandy is EVER going to win the SEC? WVU or Oklahoma St. the Big 12? Purdue or Indiana or Rutgers the Big 10? Any of three fourths of the ACC? Nah.

Because the goal in football is, for most schools, to go to a bowl and win that bowl.

MU, one of the smallest public schools in I-A, is already awesome just by being I-A. Lots of schools bigger and with better situations cower in I-AA or below. And we consistently go to bowl, win most of the time, and are in the upper half of I-A all the time. Just existing at this level is over-achieving.

Now on to basketball. Wrong. Making the tournament is not the “ultimate goal”. UK happy with that? Duke? Louisville? But even below that, you think Dayton would be happy to get a participation trophy AKA banner? WVU? Ohio State? Wichita? San Diego St? Gonzaga? No, the goal is to win for the blue bloods, but even at the mid-major level, the goal should be to win at least a game, and sometimes more. That is why people watch the games. If just making it was the “ultimate goal” then they wouldn’t even play the games.

But more importantly there are 350 Div I basketball programs. Plenty of schools far smaller than MU, far less resources, far worse situations. Of course, MU is Div I in basketball. It is supposed to be? We should be in the Mountain East with Concord and Fairmont?



You are absolutely right. There are only 20 to 30 teams that have even a shot at the national championship. If that is all you think about, then MU sports are just not for you. If you are Catholic, become a Notre Dame fan. If not, pick one. Clemson, Alabama, Auburn, or go for a long shot like Texas A&M or Florida. MU football is just not for you. Having a good record and going to a bowl is not for you. Move on.

But in basketball you are happy, every 30 years, to wear the dark jerseys for one game, or one time actually 2, in some basketball tournament where everybody has a “chance” but the same 10 teams always actually win. That satisfies you.

So, being an average to a little larger than average sized school in a group of 350 plus schools and once in a generation playing in the just under 20% of those that “have a chance” is fine. Being one of the smallest public schools in a group of 130 and, every year, being in the top 45 or so % of those, and most years, being in the upper half of those is not interesting to you. Got it.

This isn’t for you . Move on.

8-5 is not a good record and going to the bowls we go to (same one 3 out of the last 5) is not indicative of success. Birmingham, Boca, Bahamas are not good destinations for our fans.

 

[HerdyGurdyMan]

Certainly many don’t even have a shot at their conference. You think UK or Vandy is EVER going to win the SEC? WVU or Oklahoma St. the Big 12?

Oklahoma St won the Big 12 football championship in 2011. They were 12-1 that year. Only loss was in double overtime. Wouldn't surprise me if they could pull something like that off again. It would be a once in a dozen year thing though. They also finished 2nd in 2015 and 2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Oklahoma_State_Cowboys_football_team

 

[The Real SamC]

8-5 is not a good record and going to the bowls we go to (same one 3 out of the last 5) is not indicative of success. Birmingham, Boca, Bahamas are not good destinations for our fans.

But, playing, once in a generation, in some place like San Diego, and staying home the other 29 years, is?

 

[johns1124]

Preach homie ^

Still waiting to the source of the MU-Shocker matchup. The viewership! I looked and could not find it. Apparently, you did can you provide?

 

[johns1124]

8-5 is not a good record and going to the bowls we go to (same one 3 out of the last 5) is not indicative of success. Birmingham, Boca, Bahamas are not good destinations for our fans.

Most "Local Fans" cannot afford to go across the street, so take that for what it is. I agree the Bowl tie-ins for CUSA for the most part are lack luster. So in YOUR opinion what would be a good destination for our fans?

 

[HerdyGurdyMan]

Still waiting to the source of the MU-Shocker matchup. The viewership! I looked and could not find it. Apparently, you did can you provide?

In the first post on this thread on a Shocker forum it says:
Marshall - 3/16/18, 12:30 PM, TNT - 1.22M Viewers

However, the guy doesn't indicate his source.
https://shockernet.net/forum/wichit...en-s-basketball/1089357-2017-18-tv-viewership

 

[caliherd]

Still waiting to the source of the MU-Shocker matchup. The viewership! I looked and could not find it. Apparently, you did can you provide?[/QUOTE

Johns here is the tv ratings for the bowl game

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bl...n-least-watched-ucf-bowl-game-on-espn-ratings

 

[johns1124]

I know here from 2018.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/12/college-football-bowl-ratings-st-pete-frisco/

We have 1.78 Million for USF and MU

Al I'm seeing for last year is 1.12 for UCF (better comp.), but it seems that Bowl viewing for all games were down this year.
I still can't find proof of the MU-Shocker game.

 

[muthed]

But, playing, once in a generation, in some place like San Diego, and staying home the other 29 years, is?

About 20% of eligible teams go to the ncaa bball tournament. About 60% of eligible teams go bowling. You do understand it's harder to get a ticket to the dance, don't you?

 

[muthed]

Most "Local Fans" cannot afford to go across the street, so take that for what it is. I agree the Bowl tie-ins for CUSA for the most part are lack luster. So in YOUR opinion what would be a good destination for our fans?

Anyplace besides where this conference is relegated to.

 

[muthed]

That certainly is a painful video.

 

[The Real SamC]

Anyplace besides where this conference is relegated to.

Quick, pick which one we are “relegated” to:

- Fenway (new), Military, Hawaii, Armed Forces, Cure, Boca Raton, Frisco, Birmingham, Gasparilla, First Responder, Myrtle Beach (new). New Mexico.

- Bahamas, Lending Tree, Famous Idaho Potato, Camellia, Quick Lane.

- Arizona, Armed Forces, Bahamas, Boca Raton, First Responder, Frisco, Hawaii, Independence, Myrtle Beach (new), New Mexico, New Orleans, Gasparilla.

- Hawaii, Famous Idaho Potato, New Mexico, Arizona, Cheez-it, San Francisco.

- Arizona, Camellia, Cure, Frisco, Lending Tree, New Orleans.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

About 20% of eligible teams go to the ncaa bball tournament. About 60% of eligible teams go bowling. You do understand it's harder to get a ticket to the dance, don't you?

Careful, muthed - Sam doesn't like it when you start spewing accurate info on here......

 

[RhinoD]

Still waiting to the source of the MU-Shocker matchup. The viewership! I looked and could not find it. Apparently, you did can you provide?

As herdygurdyman pointed out above...

https://shockernet.net/forum/wichit...en-s-basketball/1089357-2017-18-tv-viewership

The person who created that thread was using sportsmediawatch.com to post the viewership of all televised Shocker games... Here is the link to the original article on that site with the ratings for the tournament games the day we beat Wichita State... Google is your friend.

https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2018/03/ncaa-tournament-ratings-umbc-uva-tnt/

 

[The Real SamC]

Careful, muthed - Sam doesn't like it when you start spewing accurate info on here......

Only slightly. There are well over 350 Division I programs. 68 to to basketball tournament. 80 bowl slots. Of course, there are only 130 football programs in the elite I-A, of which MU is one of the smallest public members. That means 220 cower in I-AA or don’t even play football at all. MU, elite by even existing. Over achieving.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

8-5 and getting crushed in a bowl. No division or league title. Overachieving! Hell, we should be grateful we even have a football team.

 

[johns1124]

About 20% of eligible teams go to the ncaa bball tournament. About 60% of eligible teams go bowling. You do understand it's harder to get a ticket to the dance, don't you?

You can't distinguish all bowls as equivalent to the NCAA Tourny. About 50% of basketball teams go to a tourny too when you factor in the lessor tournaments.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Well...

As I have said before, this board doesn't seem to know what they want.
The fact this is a debate shows that.
Winning conference championships seems to be their belief for a measure of coaching success...why this is? I don't know but ok

If Marshall football has a single blemish on their record, fans STILL complain because MU should win every single game (see literally anything referencing 2014 and "well WKU beat us! Forget the conference title!!! We suck").

With the original question being asked, and applying what I just said, basketball would be better and more successful simply because they won the tournament.
Given Dan's popularity, it wouldn't matter who or what happened during the regular season.
Of course, Doc needs to cure cancer along with winning by 100 pts every game and never yielding a score to gain any popularity or at least acceptance that it was a good season (and many fans would complain he didn't find the cure to Diabetes and could've scored 121 pts per game). If Marshall happened to catch and defeat someone like Penn State or Notre Dame in a NY6 Bowl, fans would say, "Oh, I'm happy...but let's face it, we didn't beat Bama."

One thing the NCAA tournament provides over the football season, is building a storyline.
MU may have had a better narrative if it were any other year, but they happened to be buried under UMBC and Loyola having ridiculous games in the tournament.

Football doesn't get any of that unless they're on the radar early.
You're sort of lost amongst the programs who literally scrape trying to get TV time. I don't blame anyone specifically about that...this season saw multiple teams have amazing seasons in the G5 but hardly any of them got notoriety minus Memphis.
Football could win a NY6 Bowl and say, "We have done as much as we are legally alllowed. We have won as much as possible. Take it or leave it." Nobody's going to change their minds anytime soon about the CFP format.

So in short,

Records matter more in football and championships matter more in basketball.

Board "logic" = "If you don't win a championship, you suck as a coach and have failed miserably."

Basketball winning the conference is more of the achievement amidst this little gathering of complainers.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Well...

As I have said before, this board doesn't seem to know what they want.
The fact this is a debate shows that.
Winning conference championships seems to be their belief for a measure of coaching success...why this is? I don't know but ok

If Marshall football has a single blemish on their record, fans STILL complain because MU should win every single game (see literally anything referencing 2014 and "well WKU beat us! Forget the conference title!!! We suck").

With the original question being asked, and applying what I just said, basketball would be better and more successful simply because they won the tournament.
Given Dan's popularity, it wouldn't matter who or what happened during the regular season.
Of course, Doc needs to cure cancer along with winning by 100 pts every game and never yielding a score to gain any popularity or at least acceptance that it was a good season (and many fans would complain he didn't find the cure to Diabetes and could've scored 121 pts per game). If Marshall happened to catch and defeat someone like Penn State or Notre Dame in a NY6 Bowl, fans would say, "Oh, I'm happy...but let's face it, we didn't beat Bama."

One thing the NCAA tournament provides over the football season, is building a storyline.
MU may have had a better narrative if it were any other year, but they happened to be buried under UMBC and Loyola having ridiculous games in the tournament.

Football doesn't get any of that unless they're on the radar early.
You're sort of lost amongst the programs who literally scrape trying to get TV time. I don't blame anyone specifically about that...this season saw multiple teams have amazing seasons in the G5 but hardly any of them got notoriety minus Memphis.
Football could win a NY6 Bowl and say, "We have done as much as we are legally alllowed. We have won as much as possible. Take it or leave it." Nobody's going to change their minds anytime soon about the CFP format.

So in short,

Records matter more in football and championships matter more in basketball.

Board "logic" = "If you don't win a championship, you suck as a coach and have failed miserably."

Basketball winning the conference is more of the achievement amidst this little gathering of complainers.

I asked Sam and he didn't reply. I'll ask you. In all seriousness, what would you define as a successful/good season in football and in basketball.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Winning conference championships seems to be their belief for a measure of coaching success...why this is? I don't know but ok

Are you serious??? With this line of thinking why do we keep score or W/L records.

The goal is to be the best team and the best team is the champion. There is no other measure by which that is measured.

noun
noun: champion; plural noun: champions

1. 1.
   a person who has defeated or surpassed all rivals in a competition, especially in sports.

noun
noun: championship; plural noun: championships

1. 1.
   a contest for the position of champion in a sport, often involving a series of games or matches.
   • the position or title of winner in a contest or sport.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Are you serious??? With this line of thinking why do we keep score or W/L records.

The goal is to be the best team and the best team is the champion. There is no other measure by which that is measured.

noun
noun: champion; plural noun: champions

1. 1.
   a person who has defeated or surpassed all rivals in a competition, especially in sports.

noun
noun: championship; plural noun: championships

1. 1.
   a contest for the position of champion in a sport, often involving a series of games or matches.
   • the position or title of winner in a contest or sport.

Considering this is now a 2 page discussion on something that should be straight forward, says not everyone really would want to always see it as such.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Considering this is now a 2 page discussion on something that should be straight forward, says not everyone really would want to always see it as such.

Those that do not see championships as an adequate measure of success accept mediocrity. The participation trophy crowd.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Maybe it's time for some to move on. Winning, being your best, and competition isn't for them.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I asked Sam and he didn't reply. I'll ask you. In all seriousness, what would you define as a successful/good season in football and in basketball.

Its subjective.
A good season in basketball is Dan just being the head coach. People actively find ways to remain optimistic amidst what anyone outside of MU would consider a pretty bad season. Dan could rip a wet fart during a presser to describe his thoughts on MU's fanbase and people would try to collect it in a jar and save it for their caves.
As it has been said, the opposite exists for Doc and people find ways to remain pessimistic amidst what anyone outside of MU would consider an "okay" season.
Yet both seem to have the same patterns of losing...lack of coaching, lack of preparedness, lack of effective players, and lack of discipline.

I usually measure football in a 3 tier approach, it helps compensate for disaster and (as I have said multiple times) Doc's absolute brainfart loss in season.
Must win 8 games.
Should win 10 games.
Could win 11 games.
Football was a major letdown no doubt. Given what the team had to do in order to get to a position for the conference championship, I wouldn't call it a complete bust either.

As for basketball? Admittedly, I don't follow it as closely. But given what has been said about the head coach and the team, as well as the pre-season hype, its probably about the same as it is with football.
The exception being a conference title can erase a bad basketball record but a conference title won't erase a bad football record (see complainers on here STILL referencing WKU in 2014) or a loss for that matter.
But I'll just say, the bar with Dan is high, and should be.
Record-wise? Well does that matter in basketball? How many teams have 7-8 losses by season's end and miss out? Especially G5? Its an increasing number. I think MTSU was really screwed one year on that. Also, St. Mary's was too a few years back.
The conference tournament carries more weight so as I said, making decent runs in the tournament like semi-finals routinely and winning it every 4 years would be my successful season.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Those that do not see championships as an adequate measure of success accept mediocrity. The participation trophy crowd.

Same with a CIT trophy?

 

[CarolinaHerdzilla]

And if you ask the same fans who beat Wich St in the first round on the 2018 Tournament, no one has a clue or gives a shit. So no Marshall Basketball is not a household name.

Now back to the original question. I have looked for the Neilson Ratings for our game vs. Wich St and cannot find them. I will bet anything our viewership
for USF Bowl and UCF last year surpassed the Friday game in San Diego. If I remember right the Gasprilla Bowl vs USF had slightly over 1 million views. I would be hard pressed to think a First Round afternoon matchup would surpass that.

WRONG johns1124.......All followers of The HERD Hoops plus a lot of people who know BB on a national scale know DANG well that Marshall defeated the WS Shockers---a team that went to the Final Four a couple years before Coach Dan´ś guys knocked off GREG MARSHALLś team!

Not many fans outside of WV knew The HERD was taken to the She Shed their next game by Huggy Bears Mountaineers.

You do know that Greg coached at Marshall before he landed the Winthrop (Rock Hill, SC) head job.

HerdZilla22 in Charlotte