WV Economy

[-CarlHungus-]

Let me preface this with the fact that I don't live in WV anymore. And I know as a born-and-raised in WV guy, that we don't like advice from outsiders....

But I've recently taken a good look at moving back to the state. The economic picture just seemed so ugly though. It seems like it's time for radical thinking.

I don't see great options for a turn around, but a couple of reasonable (in my mind) options exist to help things turn around:

1. Legalize pot. I've never touched the stuff, but I don't think it's all that dangerous. From what I read, it seems the climate in WV is ripe for good pot production. WVU and/or Marshall should then offer a degree in marijuana agriculture - make this place the expert for how to grow this stuff. In 10-15 years there will be more states that have legalized it than not, so get ahead of the trend (imagine that, WV) and be a leader in a huge untapped market. UC Davis has a master's brewers program, so some precedent is there. Make it happen.

2. Invest in fiber internet (Chattanooga, TN has done this, so again there is precedent) in a place like Fayetteville and go all in on making it a white hipster outdoor vacation haven. There is room for another Asheville, NC - it is becoming fairly expensive there from what I hear. Give the hipsters fast internet, good coffee, organic food with your built in arguably greatest views/forest/river/mountains on the east coast and I think you have something here.

To me, these two are no brainers. Other things I've thought may have a chance to help if well thought out:

- Merit-based scholarships for out of state students with stipulations about staying in the state. College costs are spiraling out of control, so the appeal of a cheap(er) college degree to good out of state students that have some sort of stipulation (ie, if you stay in state for 5 years after your degree and your W-2 income is from a WV address then your tuition is X% forgiven).


I would love to hear some other discussion about this.

 

[extragreen]

I don't know anything about the fiber internet stuff, but the rest sounds good. Speaking from personal experience there was some great stuff grown here back in the 70s.

 

[Walden Pond]

But I've recently taken a good look at moving back to the state. The economic picture just seemed so ugly though.

Well, the choice is either pretty scenery or a pretty economy.

WV is the woods. The hills.

If you want money, you must provide a service to lots of people. There aren't lots of people in WV. To get more people in WV would require chopping down the trees and moving mountains. That's not economically pretty either. Trees and mountains are already chopped and moved in other places. Places with pretty economies.

 

[Herd Fever]

It's Obama fault

 

[-CarlHungus-]

It's Obama fault

There's a lot of blame to go around. Obama using the EPA certainly was not helpful, but WV has not been proactive enough to diversify the economy to weather this storm. They should have seen this coming though.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Let me preface this with the fact that I don't live in WV anymore. And I know as a born-and-raised in WV guy, that we don't like advice from outsiders....

This may be the single largest issue when it comes WV digging itself out of the shit.

Culturally the state has always been resistant to those that actually have ideas from the outside. "Fear of an outsider" (unless its a carpetbagger like Rockefeller) & the personal "Greed that demands getting what they can instantly, and hoarding what you have from another".

WV is a culture of negativity. The state's motto should start with "Yeah, but...." because anyone I've ever talked with about making change, starting a business, thinking and planning with growth in mind, starts their rebuttal of why something cant happen there with "Yeah, but.."

 

[-CarlHungus-]

This may be the single largest issue when it comes WV digging itself out of the shit.

Culturally the state has always been resistant to those that actually have ideas from the outside. "Fear of an outsider" (unless its a carpetbagger like Rockefeller) & the personal "Greed that demands getting what they can instantly, and hoarding what you have from another".

WV is a culture of negativity. The state's motto should start with "Yeah, but...." because anyone I've ever talked with about making change, starting a business, thinking and planning with growth in mind, starts their rebuttal of why something cant happen there with "Yeah, but.."

Agree. It's Appalachian fatalism. Within the history you can understand why it's pervasive, but to move forward you've got to do something...anything other than what is happening now.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Wv is not going to turn into full blown San Fran or Asheville or whatever with new ideas...it's very possible to keep you Appalachian values or culture yet still move forward.

Crafts, blue grass, hunting, hiking, living "out the holler" etc can absolutely co exist and even thrive when you sprinkle in some fast internet, craft coffee, pot, farm to table restaurants, and aggressive marketing of your natural resource tourism.

 

[GreenDuke]

Agree. It's Appalachian fatalism. Within the history you can understand why it's pervasive, but to move forward you've got to do something...anything other than what is happening now.

I advised, but didn't push, my children to get out and never look back and they did. That's not for everybody but it was for them.

 

[trailherd]

Wv is not going to turn into full blown San Fran or Asheville or whatever with new ideas...it's very possible to keep you Appalachian values or culture yet still move forward.

Crafts, blue grass, hunting, hiking, living "out the holler" etc can absolutely co exist and even thrive when you sprinkle in some fast internet, craft coffee, pot, farm to table restaurants, and aggressive marketing of your natural resource tourism.

Outside of the pot, all of that is happening in WV. WV has topography problems that can't be masked by simple window dressing.

It impacts transportation infrastructure. It impacts manufacturing infrastructure. It impacts distribution. Outside of the eastern panhandle, we are a natural resources economy, not because of lack of leadership, but because that is the most valuable use of the land, and other uses are too expensive to compete well with what other states can offer.

Call it appalachian fatalism, but a relatively free economy is going to use its resources in the most efficient way. WV can't make itself into something it is not. It must come naturally.

 

[HerdFan76]

High speed internet is already in the works but the cable providers in the state are challenging it. I agree with getting the Fayetteville area more attention, it could be a mini Colorado Springs if developed properly. Obama had a plan to pump some money into the economically challenged areas affected by coal mines shutting down. The last I heard the money has been set aside for the program but hasn't dropped yet. I'm not sure what the hold up is but state politicians aren't happy with the delay and are calling BS on the administration.

The realist in me says nothing will ever change.

 

[raleighherdfan]

The Asheville "vibe" would be easy to duplicate throughout parts of WV. Music, Arts, outdoor tourism. etc. There are pockets of it now but still not completely embraced as real opportunity for larger change. I fully understand that "hospitality" sector cant turn an entire economy by itself, but the energy and openness it creates does change attitudes in a better direction.

Unfortunately the historical culture not only promotes keeping growth and prosperity ideas out....but also seeks to destroy and be skeptical of those that choose to stay and achieve "too much" of what others don't have.

These compounded challenges are no better displayed than when one sees the endless acrimonious bullshit between the states two largest universities. It's a microcosm of what has been repeated for generations throughout the culture of the state.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Outside of the pot, all of that is happening in WV. WV has topography problems that can't be masked by simple window dressing.

Call it appalachian fatalism, but a relatively free economy is going to use its resources in the most efficient way. WV can't make itself into something it is not. It must come naturally.

Wv doesn't seem to have the luxury to wait for some revenue to just come naturally. You've got to get outside of the comfort zone and start thinking radically. Whatever is happening now is not efficient. Unless you want things to get worse you're going to have to slightly transform into something you are not. What you are now is a severely declining economy.

The best natural resource is the New/Gauley. The Gualey is no exaggeration a world class rafting river. You can build around that somehow.

Put fiber internet in Fayetteville and get wvu or Marshall to help spear head a web development or advertising think tank there. Get that "vibe" going like Raleigh says. Foster that culture of getting people to move to a place that is cheap cost of living, aesthetically pleasing, great outdoor sports, and like minded creatives that want to be a part of a growing, creative, productive place starting up in an area that was once considered dead.


Radical thinking.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

I want an ad campaign where a guy gets out of bed, has a coffee at the local shop, goes into his office where he has a nice view of the mountains and a bad ass looking computer. He does some fancy artsy computer work there, then ducks out early and is kayaking, then ends his day with a locally grown doobie before bed.

Make it happen.

 

[extragreen]

I want an ad campaign where a guy gets out of bed, has a coffee at the local shop, goes into his office where he has a nice view of the mountains and a bad ass looking computer. He does some fancy artsy computer work there, then ducks out early and is kayaking, then ends his day with a locally grown doobie before bed.

Make it happen.

Don't forget the hot chick in the ad. C'mon.

 

[raleighherdfan]

It impacts transportation infrastructure. It impacts manufacturing infrastructure. It impacts distribution. Outside of the eastern panhandle, we are a natural resources economy, not because of lack of leadership, but because that is the most valuable use of the land, and other uses are too expensive to compete well with what other states can offer

"Yeah but..............."


Fact is, at various points throughout WV History much of what you point to was in a position to be overcome. The natural resource component of the WV economy (which is happily being killed off) aligned perfectly with the needs of large manufacturers that could have located in the state. The Ohio Valley region alone (from Huntington to Wheeling) afforded the space and land necessary for transportation and manufacturing infrastructure growth. It still does!!!!

It most certainly was and is the lack of leadership and poor vision that squanders those opportunities. Part of the "cultural" issues in play are exacerbated by the State sponsored "protectionism" of union labor and other politically motivated fear and greed which helps to keep WV where it is.

 

[raleighherdfan]

I want an ad campaign where a guy gets out of bed, has a coffee at the local shop, goes into his office where he has a nice view of the mountains and a bad ass looking computer. He does some fancy artsy computer work there, then ducks out early and is kayaking, then ends his day with a locally grown doobie before bed.

Make it happen.

That's pretty good Carl. Great idea.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Don't forget the hot chick in the ad. C'mon.

Yeah - before going kayaking he calls up a girl that's in a similar looking office environment. They decide to duck out and kayak together.

She's kind of hippy looking but cute. She definitely shaves her pits but she's got a granola vibe to her.

They share the doobie on the roof of his apartment together.

 

[trailherd]

Wv doesn't seem to have the luxury to wait for some revenue to just come naturally. You've got to get outside of the comfort zone and start thinking radically. Whatever is happening now is not efficient. Unless you want things to get worse you're going to have to slightly transform into something you are not. What you are now is a severely declining economy.

The best natural resource is the New/Gauley. The Gualey is no exaggeration a world class rafting river. You can build around that somehow.

Put fiber internet in Fayetteville and get wvu or Marshall to help spear head a web development or advertising think tank there. Get that "vibe" going like Raleigh says. Foster that culture of getting people to move to a place that is cheap cost of living, aesthetically pleasing, great outdoor sports, and like minded creatives that want to be a part of a growing, creative, productive place starting up in an area that was once considered dead.


Radical thinking.

Fair enough, but it is exactly what is happening in WV right now. We built transportation infrastructure through some of our most scenic areas (see Rt. 19 and 48.) We deregulated to allow relocalization (craft breweries, craft distilleries, farm wineries, and farm to table (see raw milk bill this past year)). We have expanded fiber (Kanawha county getting a huge investment in the last few months and local EDA's looking at providing loans for similar projects statewide). I am just not sure re-localization will see the type of economic boom that many states saw with the Tech explosion.

The US is an economy transforming to something no one has ever seen before. I agree that the state (as well as the nation) needs to think radically while we tackle severely declining unemployment, but I'm just not buying into re-localization as that solution. Maybe you are right.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Fair enough, but it is exactly what is happening in WV right now. We built transportation infrastructure through some of our most scenic areas (see Rt. 19 and 48.) We deregulated to allow relocalization (craft breweries, craft distilleries, farm wineries, and farm to table (see raw milk bill this past year)). We have expanded fiber (Kanawha county getting a huge investment in the last few months and local EDA's looking at providing loans for similar projects statewide). I am just not sure re-localization will see the type of economic boom that many states saw with the Tech explosion.

The US is an economy transforming to something no one has ever seen before. I agree that the state (as well as the nation) needs to think radically while we tackle severely declining unemployment, but I'm just not buying into re-localization as that solution. Maybe you are right.

I'm far from an expert on any of this, so I may be way off.

From afar - for what it's worth - it seems like pot and Fayetteville are the low hanging fruit.

The other stuff you mentioned helps a lot too i think

 

[trailherd]

My post was meant to say severely declining employment (see labor participation over the last two decades in particular) not severely declining unemployment.

 

[GK4Herd]

I don't know why all you carpetbaggers are stickin' yer nose inner bizness but I can damn guarantee yer we ain't gettin none of that evil weed in West By God!

 

[extragreen]

I don't know why all you carpetbaggers are stickin' yer nose inner bizness but I can damn guarantee yer we ain't gettin none of that evil weed in West By God!

Too late. Way too late.

 

[extragreen]

Yeah - before going kayaking he calls up a girl that's in a similar looking office environment. They decide to duck out and kayak together.

She's kind of hippy looking but cute. She definitely shaves her pits but she's got a granola vibe to her.

They share the doobie on the roof of his apartment together.

Now you're talking.

 

[Walden Pond]

WV is not all that attractive even as a weekend getaway.

Not easily accessible, hotels are more expensive. Might as well just go well, pretty much anywhere else. Better roads, better accommodations in every other state. WV is only good if you've got family from there that you actually like.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

WV is not all that attractive even as a weekend getaway.

You would be wrong. WV is already very popular with people in the DC/NOVA area.

I agree on the weed. It would be great for tourism and drawing in young talent. I personally know a few young, talented folks who have moved to Colorado so they can smoke weed and enjoy nature. These are not dumb people, either; they are talented and well paid.

 

[Walden Pond]

Oh OK, no problems in WV then. Hell, I couldn't care less anyway now.

Spent Saturday driving around mostly in Indiana. Pleasantly surprised. I enjoyed it. Even Indy itself is an easy pass through on the interstate. I-74 out to Illinois though, that was heaven. Lots of wide open space, not lots of people. Can't beat that.

 

[Always The Herd]

Trailherd said: "
WV has topography problems that can't be masked by simple window dressing.
It impacts transportation infrastructure. It impacts manufacturing infrastructure. It impacts distribution"
~
~
Well, I live in Beckley and we "do have" the infrastructure for transportation, manufacturing & distribution capabilities.........BUT
I do not see or hear of any companies beating the doors down to set up shop here........Now what is the problem?
We have I64, I77 & US19 and within an hour of I79. One can be in any of the eastern US major metropolitan areas in 4-6 hours........now can I hear a "Yeah but" from any of you educated idiots as to why nothing is "happening"?

 

[Herd Fever]

Making weed legal in WV would probably help with the opioids epidemic in the state also but we all know filling the prisons is big business in WV

 

[trailherd]

Trailherd said: "
WV has topography problems that can't be masked by simple window dressing.
It impacts transportation infrastructure. It impacts manufacturing infrastructure. It impacts distribution"
~
~
Well, I live in Beckley and we "do have" the infrastructure for transportation, manufacturing & distribution capabilities.........BUT
I do not see or hear of any companies beating the doors down to set up shop here........Now what is the problem?
We have I64, I77 & US19 and within an hour of I79. One can be in any of the eastern US major metropolitan areas in 4-6 hours........now can I hear a "Yeah but" from any of you educated idiots as to why nothing is "happening"?

Beckley might have the worst topography of any interstate convenient location in the state. Is this a serious question?

 

[GreenDuke]

Trailherd said: "
WV has topography problems that can't be masked by simple window dressing.
It impacts transportation infrastructure. It impacts manufacturing infrastructure. It impacts distribution"
~
~
Well, I live in Beckley and we "do have" the infrastructure for transportation, manufacturing & distribution capabilities.........BUT
I do not see or hear of any companies beating the doors down to set up shop here........Now what is the problem?
We have I64, I77 & US19 and within an hour of I79. One can be in any of the eastern US major metropolitan areas in 4-6 hours........now can I hear a "Yeah but" from any of you educated idiots as to why nothing is "happening"?

Nick Joe funded a lot of poured concrete around Beckley, sadly those interstates and connectors sit empty.

 

[i am herdman]

Hate to say it but my advice to young people in the area would be: Get out.

See the world, the country, get exposed to something different, and don't get caught up in going to the 13th grade at Marshall. Be introduced to many opportunities and more importantly competition that you don't see there. It will drive you. If you want to settle for something less, stay there. At least for awhile get out and go back later if you want to. But, don't settle for something less. Don't limit yourself!

 

[Walden Pond]

If it would have been a culture of happy cheap hicks loving the simple life, I'd have stayed and now would have to go back. But everybody's just miserable that they can't have this, can't have that, can't do this, can't do that. They cry on TV when the plant closes. Act like another job is out of the question. They can't go on without depending on some out of towner with a key.

It's about now that I'm appreciating the freaks and snobs around here. At least they just go get whatever it is they want instead of sit around talking about how they can't do it.

 

[Always The Herd]

Trailherd......obviously you do not know the Beckley area very well. There are plenty of sites unknown to the casual passer-thru.

 

[pj(HN)]

There is also the problem of the stranded labor throughout southern WV. Once the coal is gone... We need to aggressively re-educated and re-locate those that are willing... I would rather pay for someone to get new job training and even pay for them to relocate closer to the job market then to continue to pay them to sit on their front porch and get addicted to opium's...

 

[raleighherdfan]

Trailherd said: "
WV has topography problems that can't be masked by simple window dressing.
It impacts transportation infrastructure. It impacts manufacturing infrastructure. It impacts distribution"
~
~
Well, I live in Beckley and we "do have" the infrastructure for transportation, manufacturing & distribution capabilities.........BUT
I do not see or hear of any companies beating the doors down to set up shop here........Now what is the problem?
We have I64, I77 & US19 and within an hour of I79. One can be in any of the eastern US major metropolitan areas in 4-6 hours........now can I hear a "Yeah but" from any of you educated idiots as to why nothing is "happening"?

Are you trying to say that's all that is needed? The "yeah but" list is endless. At the end of the day, it requires multiple efforts and multiple leadership from multiple interests. It takes a mentality of growth and progress (fiscally and socially), combined with a desire of risk taking that most of the WV culture refuses to embrace, or actively seeks to destroy if one gets too far ahead. I think that is the over riding point that was being made in this thread. WV would be so lucky if a few more educated ("idiots") actually decided to stick around in the state.

 

[i am herdman]

There is also the problem of the stranded labor throughout southern WV. Once the coal is gone... We need to aggressively re-educated and re-locate those that are willing... I would rather pay for someone to get new job training and even pay for them to relocate closer to the job market then to continue to pay them to sit on their front porch and get addicted to opium's...

Where are you going to send them? Charlotte? Columbus? Texas?

You can move to them to Huntington or Charleston but there is not shi* for them there either.

 

[Walden Pond]

WV would be so lucky if a few more educated ("idiots") actually decided to stick around in the state.

Somehow have to keep them from ever finding out that the bigger and better is somewhere else. Even as a cheapskate bastard who lives like a hillbilly, I can't imagine moving back now. Only to die. There's nowhere to work. Nothing to do. Once you take a drive in the mountains, that's it.

Look at the people. They just sit around doing nothing, smoking, getting fat and talking about how they're flat broke after they spent $12 on a bag of chalupas at Taco Bell they hogged on the way home.

 

[extragreen]

Funny stuff. The people not living here are doing the whining.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Funny stuff. The people not living here are doing the whining.

Leave it to Greed to prove one of the original posts in this thread.