If Doc has inked the #1 class in CUSA for 6 of the past 7 years than why do we only have 1 CUSA Title to show for it?
But why?
- Thread starter Marine03
- Start date
Just stating facts that no one wants to ever answer
Insanity is asking the same question over and over with no or same response.
Insanity is getting excited about recruiting classes that Doc produces knowing the end result is already certain
Starting the some crap over and over again.......accomplishes nothing......Go to the WVU page and maybe they will give you the answer your so long been looking for....
If only the games were played on paper.
Don't develop talent, high turnover, and well x and o leadership from the top, and no standards set for the program the by university for what it expects of the football program. Our football program is underachieving.
Location.Location, Location. Hard when most players never take the field or stay for the first game.
That's true with every school's class. We fans buy the hype. Honestly it's all a dog and pony show full of political garbage. Who played where and played who and attended this camp or that camp. That's why you have 5-star QBs that bust out and walk-ons like Hunter Renfrow or for our purposes Malik Gant that end up being absolute studs.
With all the HS players around the country there is no way they all can be legitimately reviewed and rated. How many different "scouts" for RIVALS, 247, or ESPN have to review thousands of films. Even if it were possible that's a lot of different people giving their opinions that is impossible to not be largely inconsistent.
Doc has done well in recruiting and some could say very well. He and some members of his staff have struggled at times to develop talent and manage personalities. Though I think managing today's athlete's personality is becoming near impossible.
That being said having only two trips and one title in 10 seasons really is sad.
I don't think the turnover is going to get better. We now have a "Transfer Portal". The fact off season transfers has garnered a gimmicky title just shows transfers have become and will continie to be more prevalent.
Stoppppppppp repeatttttting this. It’s a lie and I’ve proven to you it’s a lie again and again. Last chance or you’ll need a third username.
That's not true. There have been publications which have looked at star rankings and what it means in terms of college success and making the NFL. 4 and 5 star high school recruits fare far better in succeeding in college and in making NFL rosters than 2 and 3 star recruits.
That doesn't mean that a 3 star kid can't end up having a better college/pro career than a 5 star kid, but the chances are overwhelmingly in favor of the 5 star kid . . . and that isn't because he went to a certain camp or played at a certain high school, but rather, because he is a better player as the rankings reflect.
A big part of this recruiting "success" is being able to take non-qualifiers. It doesn't matter if these rankings do or don't take into consideration the NQs that Marshall takes. The ability to know you can take them gives you a huge advantage in recruiting kids.
As we know, if a kid doesn't qualify, Marshall has a solid chance of landing him because of their ability to take unlimited NQs. Many other schools don't take a single one or have a very small limit on them. Just as important, there are plenty of kids on the bubble who end up qualifying. Those kids who are on the bubble academically? Many schools stopped recruiting them months ago. Schools that have a policy against taking them or have staffs that don't want to deal with frequent headaches that come along with kids who do awful academically don't want to waste their time recruiting kids who may not be allowed into school. That gives schools like Marshall a huge advantage in that they can keep recruiting you the entire way knowing that they can take you regardless of what happens. It isn't just the ability to take NQs that is a huge advantage; the ability to keep recruiting borderline kids who end up eligible is just as much of an advantage.
It's too bad Marshall couldn't keep this kid in Huntington. Their own city has had some very highly rated offensive lineman over the last few years who Marshall hasn't been able to get. Compare that with fellow G5 schools like Houston who have been able to keep 4 and 5 star kids home:
https://247sports.com/Player/Darnell-Wright-46035563/
Where did you prove it? All I know is 5 players didn't show up last year. What scared them off? Hint, one was 4 star from Miss.
So, five players from an entire class is most?
And FYI, we didn't sign any 4 stars last year. The only kid from MS who we signed actually enrolled during the summer but was too much of a wuss to hang through conditioning so he went back home.
I put that on a staff. How do you supposedly recruit a kid for months/years, spend time at his school talking to coaches, teachers, administrators, and other students, spend significant time getting to know him and his family, do at least one school/home visit, and still not have any red flags that would lead you to believe he'd pack up and leave so early?
Houston and Huntington can’t be compared. But I get what you’re saying.
Fact is we in Huntington have heard from fellow Marshall fans, local and national media and fellow area residents about what a shit hole, dangerous and drug infested city Huntington is, it’s a damn wonder we can get any kids to come here or stay here.
Hell, I am telling my kids to get out.
Perhaps its because its actually a step up from where some of these players are from. Many talk about their homes and seeing some pics on social media, makes Huntington look like McLean by comparison.
Is this supposed to mean that they are willing to sign with the school but the location caused them to not want to eventually come play? Just curious if they knew where the school was BEFORE signing....? Your logic in why it happens makes absolutely zero sense. Players don't sign with schools and then say 'oh I don't want to play in that location' after they sign.
I would think the staff needs to shoulder the majority of the blame. There are some outliers (players) who weren't strong enough mentally to make it work but the lack of championship level success with the stats tossed out fall on player evaluation and player development. Doc has enough experience to know that on paper doesnt equate to on field success but the same results tend to be provided. Each season seems to be defined more about player issues or situations or something more "negative" then positives too often. Not saying that is all on Doc but he is the CEO of the team.
The truth is they tabulate class rank based on two metrics: players and stars. We oversign and take a ton of props, most of whom come in with plenty of stars, so we get both tons of players and tons of stars and always wind up at the top of the rankings.
It's a waste of time making absolute correlations like "recruiting = success" or "budget = success." There are a near-infinite number of factors that go into the final result, a large number of which can be grouped together and called "luck." That can be anything from how the conical end of an oblong ball strikes the ground on a particular play, to a promising young defensive lineman getting killed by a stray bullet at a party. You never know what is going to happen, how things are going to shake out.
It's a waste of time making absolute correlations like "recruiting = success" or "budget = success." There are a near-infinite number of factors that go into the final result, a large number of which can be grouped together and called "luck." That can be anything from how the conical end of an oblong ball strikes the ground on a particular play, to a promising young defensive lineman getting killed by a stray bullet at a party. You never know what is going to happen, how things are going to shake out.
Sort of. Rivals only considers your top 20 rated/ranked players.
This is one of the more logical responses I've seen on this board in a long time.
You spelled “inaccurate” wrong.
Nobody is saying that if you have the #1 ranked class for three straight years, then you will win the conference for three straight years. Nobody is saying that a 5 star kid is always going to end up being a better player than a three star kid.
However, if you ask any coach, they’d much rather have the #1 ranked recruiting class in a conference instead of the #12 class. That’s because far more often than not, those kids who are ranked higher as recruits end up being better players. And more often than not, having higher recruiting classes means a better finish in the conference than having lower recruiting classes.
Meh.
On average, you're probably right, but I don't think you'll get a lot of coaches to openly agree with that.
I wouldn't say that the development of talent is the issue as we have quite a few recruits that developed into outstanding players and we have had several walk-ons do the same. Our main issue has been the extremely high attrition rates we had for the classes prior to 2016 that were lead by Seider and Hartley. Those classes were high on stars but also very high on risk and all of those classes except for the great 2011 class had attrition rates where we lost more than half of the players we signed and also those that enrolled before they completed their eligibility at MU. We were simply losing too much talent in comparison to the classes we signed to be successful at the level of our classes on paper. The 2016-2018 classes have had very good attrition rates so far and that is the reason we now have good depth in the program. The other issue was QB development and recruiting. We simply did not recruit well enough at the position to effectively replace Cato when he completed his 4 years. Our QB depth chart looks much better right now for the future, but Litton was all we had, and while talented, he lacked the intangibles to make us a winner.
Jaquan Webb was originally committed to play football at Ole Miss and was a highly rated 3-star (4-star on ESPN) by most of the recruiting sites. He decommitted from Ole Miss due to the internal issues they had going on there and we were able to get him in for an OV and signed him. My recollection is that he got homesick or didn't like it much in Huntington and decided to go back home to Ole Miss to run track. Note, he is from Oxford, MS and also had a track scholarship offer from Ole Miss.
Our only issue in 2018 was that we didn't have a replacement at QB that was as good as Litton was in 2017, just as Litton wasn't an adequate replacement for Cato from 2015-2017. Green has the potential to get to Cato's level of play, but our offense was inconsistent in 2018 due to the inconsistent play of Green and Thomson. Other than this, our only other problem was a couple of season ending injuries to key players.
Easy. He isn't that good of an actual coach.
Not really sure what the replies mean towards what I originally posted. A kid that gets homesick is part of the mental part I mentioned. That however is small compared to those arrested and/or kicked out of Marshall or never make it to school. As for part 2, a QB issue is a negative in all forms. Not saying negative in terms of an arrest or something tragic, rather a situation that isnt positive.
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Marshall has won more games than any other team in CUSA the past 5 seasons combined. I know some of you only judge greatness by winning a conference championship, but it's not like these players aren't winning games.
So you’re part of the participation trophy generation apparently. Championship banners are the only things that sports teams are judged by and really nothing else.
Big deal. Marshall should be winning more championships in this conference.
These statements are right up there with other things you just never hear:
“Hand me that pipe organ.”, “Please gnaw my arm off.”, and, “This is an AWESOME 14-14 basketball team!”
The winningest Mediocre team in CUSA the last 5 years vs winningest Team of the Ninety’s hummmmmmmm? What would you love being?
And THAT is part of the problem with our fan base. THE NINETY'S, started almost 30 years ago and was mostly against D1AA football teams. I hate to break it to you, but if you are still judging Marshall football against the 1990's, you are going to be disappointed for the rest of your life. That was an anomaly of college football that would be even harder to replicate in today's age.
I've never seen someone complain so much about a program that they claim to support, it's really quite impressive.
Yes it was the 90’s but you missed the most important point .... what would you rather be Mediocre or Winning Championships!
I am never disappointed in Marshall football just in the results. Marshall is a special place and some people do not know how to think Big like a Rick Tolley, Jim Donnan and Bob Prueit! The plane crash was and is a Big deal! As tragic as it was it will always be a Big Deal! So, it is not anymore harder an achievement to winning Championships is it....it only takes a willingness to do it!
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