This is from the free board on Herdfans. It isn't premium and you don't even have to be logged into the site to read it so it is public consumption. I know this post is long, but here is some insight from one of our best players under Doc who. The best part about that whole thread was seeing fans tell a multiple year offensive starter that he didn't know anything he was talking about and then attempt to lecture him on how our offense ran. Whether you agree or disagree with him you have to respect that he gave his insight. I bet had he posted something negative it would have been accepted with open arms. It does confuse me how any explanation that comes from team sources that doesn't follow message board narrative is almost completely dismissed.
I don't fully agree with him as I have heard about the arguments that Doc and Legg had during games that rose to the point of Legg telling Doc just to fire him. Still find this very interesting.
Conversation starts here.
I’m going to try and explain this one last time for all of you daft folks that think Doc had anything to do with coaching and calling offensive plays, and for that matter, defensive plays as well: Doc has 0 say... zero... that means nothing... that means nada... that means if you think he has anything to do with play calling, you’re dead wrong... that means there’s absolutely no shot Doc had anything to do with offensive and defensive play calling... that means the only thing he had a say in or cared to have a say in was special teams... that means Doc had nothing to do with a single play or formation Cramsey called this past season... that means Doc had nothing to do with Lambert’s defensive play calling or formations... that means Doc has never had a say since he was at Marshall (with the exception of going for it a few times on 4th or going for 2)... that means they weren’t handcuffed by Doc... that means Cramsey wasn’t handcuffed by Doc... that means Cramsey $*** the bed down the stretch, without anyone’s help, but his own. If this works out, it’s because Huff is taking Cramsey’s offense in his own direction, and Cramsey is in the dog house until he “gets it.” That means if they come out one day and tell you he was handcuffed by Doc, they’re lying to you because it’s easy for y’all (because of your hatred for Doc) to believe that, and they’ll tell you that Cramsey had everything to do with whatever success they have, if it’s a successful season, to reenforce that, again, because you’ll believe anything that reenforces your sentiments and bias. I’ve personally and directly told some of you (not my opinion; I’ve told you straight facts) that Doc has no say... as soon as the new guy keeps him, it must’ve been Doc’s fault? All because it wouldn’t make sense to y’all? I don’t know how much more straight forward one has to be with y’all for you to understand Doc’s involvement with the offense and defense began and ended with hiring a coordinator. That’s the cold hard facts... your opinions and the way you “rationalize” information doesn’t change that. Mk? I mean I am speaking with adults, right? I’m not speaking with a bunch of children?
I hope it works out and I hope Huff can teach Cramsey a thing or two. He has a lot to learn—dude’s play calling (Cramsey’s, and Cramsey’s alone; not Doc’s) cost us a conference title. Period. That’s not an opinion. I hope he turns it around and I’m optimistic that he will, under Huff. But I’m not going to make up excuses for Cramsey that aren’t even in the least bit viable or possible. Be excited, great. Wonderful. It’s a new chapter and we’re all wanting to see a revamped program that is fun and exciting to watch. We want to win and actually win conference titles... we want to dominate our conference and compete on a national level, competing with the best teams in the country, G5 and especially P5. I get that. We all want that... but you’re lying to yourself if you think Doc had anything at all to do with Cramsey’s offense. I’m telling you it’s literally impossible that you’re right. I would be willing to bet my mortgage, car, and dogs’ lives on it... I’d be willing to bet having kids one day (meaning gambling with whether I can physically have kids one day)... I’d gamble having my eyes cut out or my limbs chopped off if I’m wrong. That’s how sure I am... because I know. I’m not saying this to say it.
If he’s keeping Cramsey, then I support him and I hope he turns it around. I think his system has potential and maybe Huff can provide some much needed direction. This is a great opportunity for Cramsey to redeem himself. However, my optimism doesn’t start crossing over into delusion. Huff keeping Cramsey doesn’t erase or excuse his absolute disaster down the stretch... that doesn’t change Cramsey being absolutely clueless, especially in those last three games. The conference title game was still (regarding play calling) the worst I’ve seen in the Joan, especially considering what type of players Cramsey had on the field for him. HE wasted what should’ve been one of the best teams we’ve ever had at Marshall. For me, Cramsey has to prove that he’s capable... and that doesn’t mean going unbeaten against the bottom of the G5. I wish them well and I’m excited to watch the kids play, and the coaches coach.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:47:20 AM by vanhorn78 »
Quote from: herdorbust on Yesterday at 07:29:16 AM
CVH:
A lot of your veteran offensive coordinators either run their own show, or collab with a head coach that is offensive minded/more offensive minded. Some OC’s are anal about running their own show and won’t take a job unless they get that freedom—Legg was one of these guys. Some head coaches are big on O or D, and the offensive and defensive playbooks will basically be their’s, and the coordinator will be someone that’s a proponent of that system. The different ways that type of thing sorts itself out vary in multiple different ways. Usually a college head coach is real big on offense or defensive. Doc was a big special teams guy. That’s as far as his say went, regarding X’s and O’s, or play calling, and that was seldom in itself. Whoooo... he wants shotgun and under center... I guess that fixes everything, doesn’t it? I guess that just about covers it, right? Give me a break. It depends on play calling, formations, personnel, tendencies, etc. Again, the offense you saw this past season was exclusively Cramsey’s. It was ALL CRAMSEY. Do you understand? You keep talking about Doc... I thought I was clear in the previous message. One more time: Doc had 0 to do with that offensive disaster. You got exclusively Cramsey with not even a dash of Doc. I wish he would’ve handed it off more (“in the shotgun”) instead of trying to force the pass in every game, especially early on. We’d have another conference title.
One more time since you’re struggling... Cramsey’s offense... not Doc’s.
One more time: Doc not having a thing to do with the offense =/=(doesn't equal) Doc’s offense. It equals Doc has 0 say, but is responsible for. One more time: you saw exclusively Tim Cramsey... THE biggest reason we lost the conference title. Yes, Doc brought him on and is responsible... but... Tim. Cramsey. Called. Every. Play. And. Every. Formation. Doc is gone. Cramsey is still here. The only way that (the offense) gets fixed is if Huff and/or Cramsey take this thing in a different direction.
I don't fully agree with him as I have heard about the arguments that Doc and Legg had during games that rose to the point of Legg telling Doc just to fire him. Still find this very interesting.
Conversation starts here.
I’m going to try and explain this one last time for all of you daft folks that think Doc had anything to do with coaching and calling offensive plays, and for that matter, defensive plays as well: Doc has 0 say... zero... that means nothing... that means nada... that means if you think he has anything to do with play calling, you’re dead wrong... that means there’s absolutely no shot Doc had anything to do with offensive and defensive play calling... that means the only thing he had a say in or cared to have a say in was special teams... that means Doc had nothing to do with a single play or formation Cramsey called this past season... that means Doc had nothing to do with Lambert’s defensive play calling or formations... that means Doc has never had a say since he was at Marshall (with the exception of going for it a few times on 4th or going for 2)... that means they weren’t handcuffed by Doc... that means Cramsey wasn’t handcuffed by Doc... that means Cramsey $*** the bed down the stretch, without anyone’s help, but his own. If this works out, it’s because Huff is taking Cramsey’s offense in his own direction, and Cramsey is in the dog house until he “gets it.” That means if they come out one day and tell you he was handcuffed by Doc, they’re lying to you because it’s easy for y’all (because of your hatred for Doc) to believe that, and they’ll tell you that Cramsey had everything to do with whatever success they have, if it’s a successful season, to reenforce that, again, because you’ll believe anything that reenforces your sentiments and bias. I’ve personally and directly told some of you (not my opinion; I’ve told you straight facts) that Doc has no say... as soon as the new guy keeps him, it must’ve been Doc’s fault? All because it wouldn’t make sense to y’all? I don’t know how much more straight forward one has to be with y’all for you to understand Doc’s involvement with the offense and defense began and ended with hiring a coordinator. That’s the cold hard facts... your opinions and the way you “rationalize” information doesn’t change that. Mk? I mean I am speaking with adults, right? I’m not speaking with a bunch of children?
I hope it works out and I hope Huff can teach Cramsey a thing or two. He has a lot to learn—dude’s play calling (Cramsey’s, and Cramsey’s alone; not Doc’s) cost us a conference title. Period. That’s not an opinion. I hope he turns it around and I’m optimistic that he will, under Huff. But I’m not going to make up excuses for Cramsey that aren’t even in the least bit viable or possible. Be excited, great. Wonderful. It’s a new chapter and we’re all wanting to see a revamped program that is fun and exciting to watch. We want to win and actually win conference titles... we want to dominate our conference and compete on a national level, competing with the best teams in the country, G5 and especially P5. I get that. We all want that... but you’re lying to yourself if you think Doc had anything at all to do with Cramsey’s offense. I’m telling you it’s literally impossible that you’re right. I would be willing to bet my mortgage, car, and dogs’ lives on it... I’d be willing to bet having kids one day (meaning gambling with whether I can physically have kids one day)... I’d gamble having my eyes cut out or my limbs chopped off if I’m wrong. That’s how sure I am... because I know. I’m not saying this to say it.
If he’s keeping Cramsey, then I support him and I hope he turns it around. I think his system has potential and maybe Huff can provide some much needed direction. This is a great opportunity for Cramsey to redeem himself. However, my optimism doesn’t start crossing over into delusion. Huff keeping Cramsey doesn’t erase or excuse his absolute disaster down the stretch... that doesn’t change Cramsey being absolutely clueless, especially in those last three games. The conference title game was still (regarding play calling) the worst I’ve seen in the Joan, especially considering what type of players Cramsey had on the field for him. HE wasted what should’ve been one of the best teams we’ve ever had at Marshall. For me, Cramsey has to prove that he’s capable... and that doesn’t mean going unbeaten against the bottom of the G5. I wish them well and I’m excited to watch the kids play, and the coaches coach.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 05:47:20 AM by vanhorn78 »
Quote from: herdorbust on Yesterday at 07:29:16 AM
CVH:
A lot of your veteran offensive coordinators either run their own show, or collab with a head coach that is offensive minded/more offensive minded. Some OC’s are anal about running their own show and won’t take a job unless they get that freedom—Legg was one of these guys. Some head coaches are big on O or D, and the offensive and defensive playbooks will basically be their’s, and the coordinator will be someone that’s a proponent of that system. The different ways that type of thing sorts itself out vary in multiple different ways. Usually a college head coach is real big on offense or defensive. Doc was a big special teams guy. That’s as far as his say went, regarding X’s and O’s, or play calling, and that was seldom in itself. Whoooo... he wants shotgun and under center... I guess that fixes everything, doesn’t it? I guess that just about covers it, right? Give me a break. It depends on play calling, formations, personnel, tendencies, etc. Again, the offense you saw this past season was exclusively Cramsey’s. It was ALL CRAMSEY. Do you understand? You keep talking about Doc... I thought I was clear in the previous message. One more time: Doc had 0 to do with that offensive disaster. You got exclusively Cramsey with not even a dash of Doc. I wish he would’ve handed it off more (“in the shotgun”) instead of trying to force the pass in every game, especially early on. We’d have another conference title.
One more time since you’re struggling... Cramsey’s offense... not Doc’s.
One more time: Doc not having a thing to do with the offense =/=(doesn't equal) Doc’s offense. It equals Doc has 0 say, but is responsible for. One more time: you saw exclusively Tim Cramsey... THE biggest reason we lost the conference title. Yes, Doc brought him on and is responsible... but... Tim. Cramsey. Called. Every. Play. And. Every. Formation. Doc is gone. Cramsey is still here. The only way that (the offense) gets fixed is if Huff and/or Cramsey take this thing in a different direction.
