People that are asking Israel to hold back are ludicrous.

[i am herdman]

You don't let terrorist go into your country and do what they did. This wasn't just some attack on military targets. They killed women, childre, raped, beheaded infants, and shot elderly people where they were sitting. They killed families eating breakfat together. They burned people alive. This wasn't attack on a ship or a tank or a military base somwhere. It was a barbaric terrorist attack. Guess what? Backed by Iran.

So, at some point you confont evil and you take it on. Also, guess what? We are going to get drug into it by choice or not.

 

[30CAT]

Guess what? Backed by Iran.

"Pedo-Joe and I approve!" - @extragreen

 

[extragreen]

They killed women, childre, raped, beheaded infants, and shot elderly people where they were sitting. They killed families eating breakfat together. They burned people alive.

^^^This is an atrocity when done by terrorists. Not so much when Russians did it. Like I said, maybe Israel should give some land to hamas and sign a peace treaty.

 

[extragreen]

"Pedo-Joe and I approve!" - @extragreen

You're a lying idiot.

 

[i am herdman]

^^^This is an atrocity when done by terrorists. Not so much when Russians did it. Like I said, maybe Israel should give some land to hamas and sign a peace treaty.

I never said Ukraine should hold back...plus the situations are different. Not the same type of event.

 

[HerdandHokies]

You don't let terrorist go into your country and do what they did. This wasn't just some attack on military targets. They killed women, childre, raped, beheaded infants, and shot elderly people where they were sitting. They killed families eating breakfat together. They burned people alive. This wasn't attack on a ship or a tank or a military base somwhere. It was a barbaric terrorist attack. Guess what? Backed by Iran.

So, at some point you confont evil and you take it on. Also, guess what? We are going to get drug into it by choice or not.

Were one so inclined they could take most of the things you’ve said Hamas did (and Hamas did do those things, or enough of them that I won’t quibble) and accuse Israel of the same, and be right. And Israel, being the state that claims and controls Gaza, has a responsibility to try and not kill a bunch of civilians living in territory that they control.

The problem is much larger than anything to do with the attack a few weeks ago, or the response to it now. It’s bigger than Hamas. The question is: what happens to the Palestinians? You can’t fix any of this without fixing that. You can go in and kill every member of Hamas and you’ll just have that many new members tomorrow. Because as long as you have a huge group of people living in what amounts to an open-air prison you’re going to have a hotbed of extremists.

We’ve seen what Israel does if you don’t have an armed resistance. It’s called the West Bank. They come and bulldoze your houses and move you into an increasingly small, progressively worse (in terms of fertility, resources, etc) area, and put up their own villages on top of your old ones. West Bank could be negotiated with but Israel doesn’t, which undercuts their moral superiority over Hamas quite a bit.

So what do you do? I sure don’t have an answer. “Move everybody to Jordan” sure doesn’t seem like a viable answer. There are 5 million people who don’t want to move, and Jordan only has 10 million people so integration would be practically impossible. “Create their own country” would work in the long term, but they can’t agree on lines. The West Bank is a crisscrossed disaster of settlements and there may be no untangling it now. “Let Israel genocide them” is ****ing horrific.

My point is that all the arguing over what it’s ok to bomb and what it isn’t, and what sort of response is justified and what isn’t, all doesn’t really matter in the big picture. They’re horrific human tragedies but deciding one way or the other doesn’t really get us any closer to whatever the final solution will be.

Damn, there’s a phrase I’ve heard before.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

It all seems sort of hopeless. I just don’t see a great answer.

Related ….the US wasn’t interested in peace in Ukraine it seems , so I have zero faith anyone can navigate this Middle East stuff either.

 

[i am herdman]

Were one so inclined they could take most of the things you’ve said Hamas did (and Hamas did do those things, or enough of them that I won’t quibble) and accuse Israel of the same, and be right. And Israel, being the state that claims and controls Gaza, has a responsibility to try and not kill a bunch of civilians living in territory that they control.

The problem is much larger than anything to do with the attack a few weeks ago, or the response to it now. It’s bigger than Hamas. The question is: what happens to the Palestinians? You can’t fix any of this without fixing that. You can go in and kill every member of Hamas and you’ll just have that many new members tomorrow. Because as long as you have a huge group of people living in what amounts to an open-air prison you’re going to have a hotbed of extremists.

We’ve seen what Israel does if you don’t have an armed resistance. It’s called the West Bank. They come and bulldoze your houses and move you into an increasingly small, progressively worse (in terms of fertility, resources, etc) area, and put up their own villages on top of your old ones. West Bank could be negotiated with but Israel doesn’t, which undercuts their moral superiority over Hamas quite a bit.

So what do you do? I sure don’t have an answer. “Move everybody to Jordan” sure doesn’t seem like a viable answer. There are 5 million people who don’t want to move, and Jordan only has 10 million people so integration would be practically impossible. “Create their own country” would work in the long term, but they can’t agree on lines. The West Bank is a crisscrossed disaster of settlements and there may be no untangling it now. “Let Israel genocide them” is ****ing horrific.

My point is that all the arguing over what it’s ok to bomb and what it isn’t, and what sort of response is justified and what isn’t, all doesn’t really matter in the big picture. They’re horrific human tragedies but deciding one way or the other doesn’t really get us any closer to whatever the final solution will be.

Damn, there’s a phrase I’ve heard before.

Well part of it is we are being baited. Iran wants Israel out of that region. Not just because they are Jews but, Israel is the balance of power there. With Israel being gone, Iran would geogrpahically control the region and the flow of oil and assets. That is the big picture. The Saudi's and Iranians really don't like each other. If Israel were gone then, Iran would be the biggest power from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea.

This is why things are on alert. Hamas needs to go. But, if Hezbollah joins to the North(backed from Iran) then we have issues and Israel has bigger issues. Throw in Al Qeada and other groups and here we go, like I said GWOT 2. We are like this close to it happening. But, there are bigger implications because Iran, Russia, and China have a threesome of convenience.

This is major shit. We don't want in Israel's conflict with Hamas, but there is a bigger picture. There is no strategic deal with us and the Gaza strip. There is with Israel fighting a 3 or 4 front war. Why? What I mentioned above, Iran and power in the region.

 

[HerdandHokies]

Well part of it is we are being baited. Iran wants Israel out of that region. Not just because they are Jews but, Israel is the balance of power there. With Israel being gone, Iran would geogrpahically control the region and the flow of oil and assets. That is the big picture. The Saudi's and Iranians really don't like each other. If Israel were gone then, Iran would be the biggest power from the Mediterranean to the Red Sea.

This is why things are on alert. Hamas needs to go. But, if Hezbollah joins to the North(backed from Iran) then we have issues and Israel has bigger issues. Throw in Al Qeada and other groups and here we go, like I said GWOT 2. We are like this close to it happening. But, there are bigger implications because Iran, Russia, and China have a threesome of convenience.

This is major shit. We don't want in Israel's conflict with Hamas, but there is a bigger picture. There is no strategic deal with us and the Gaza strip. There is with Israel fighting a 3 or 4 front war. Why? What I mentioned above, Iran and power in the region.

Israel leaving is even more unrealistic than moving the Palestinians to Jordan. I’m not an expert but what I heard a lot of is that Israeli relations with the other powers in the region were actually stabilizing some, which may be what prompted Hamas to launch their attack when they did.

 

[extragreen]

I never said Ukraine should hold back...plus the situations are different. Not the same type of event.

Fact is you're a stupid lying hypocrite, trumptard and oath breaker.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

Israel leaving is even more unrealistic than moving the Palestinians to Jordan. I’m not an expert but what I heard a lot of is that Israeli relations with the other powers in the region were actually stabilizing some, which may be what prompted Hamas to launch their attack when they did.

That’s my understanding as well. Combined with some Israel in-house constitutional issues and the holiday.

 

[i am herdman]

Fact is you're a stupid lying hypocrite, trumptard and oath breaker.

Ukraine is free to unleash whatever they got on Russia.

 

[extragreen]

Ukraine is free to unleash whatever they got on Russia.

You suggested Ukraine give up land and sign a peace treaty, you stupid lying oaf.

 

[30CAT]

You suggested Ukraine give up land and sign a peace treaty, you stupid lying oaf.

You suggested that Trump had bad policies, but you have yet to name any. You want to talk lies? You're one of, if not the biggest liars on this board. All derived from hatred for one person.

"Whoever hates disguises himself with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart"

 

[i am herdman]

You suggested Ukraine give up land and sign a peace treaty, you stupid lying oaf.

Suggested, yes. To save their country. Thry are going to have no fighting age males left. They are losing generations of people. Give up thr Russian speaking portions of their country which are historically in question anyway in order to stop being slaughtered.

But you act like a 6th grade educated idiot. The situation in Israel ans Ukraine are not comparable.

 

[extragreen]

You suggested that Trump had bad policies, but you have yet to name any. You want to talk lies? You're one of, if not the biggest liars on this board. All derived from hatred for one person.

"Whoever hates disguises himself with his lips and harbors deceit in his heart"

TidyCAT is a lying idiot.

 

[extragreen]

You suggested Ukraine give up land and sign a peace treaty, you stupid lying oaf.

Suggested, yes.

^^^
You're an lying idiot oath breaker hypocrite.

 

[i am herdman]

^^^
You're an lying idiot oath breaker hypocrite.

I stated I did suggest it. Why are there no peace deals on the table?

 

[19MU88]

^^^
You're an lying idiot oath breaker hypocrite.

^^draft dodger supports war mongers^^

 

[30CAT]

^^^
You're an lying idiot oath breaker hypocrite.

The audacity you have to be calling anyone a hypocrite is immeasurable. If anything, you're the definition of a hypocrite.

 

[extragreen]

I stated I did suggest it. Why are there no peace deals on the table between Israel and hamas??

 

[extragreen]

^^draft dodger supports war mongers^^

You're a lying idiot.

How's that Georgia thing going for you??

 

[extragreen]

The audacity you have to be calling anyone a hypocrite is immeasurable. If anything, you're the definition of a hypocrite.

You're a lying idiot hypocrite.

 

[i am herdman]

Why do you think Israel's situation and Ukraine's situation are the same?

Furthermore, it is reported the Obama God is saying Israel should restrain and reports the Mush admin are doing the same.

But, again, greed is acting like a simpleton. Ukraine's situation and Israel's are two different things. One was a terrorist attack. The other was a nation attacking another nation and two standing arrmies fighting each other in a major land war. But, hey simpleton keep drawing those black and white comarisons.

 

[extragreen]

Why do you think Israel's situation and Ukraine's situation are the same?

Furthermore, it is reported the Obama God is saying Israel should restrain and reports the Mush admin are doing the same.

But, again, greed is acting like a simpleton. Ukraine's situation and Israel's are two different things. One was a terrorist attack. The other was a nation attacking another nation and two standing arrmies fighting each other in a major land war. But, hey simpleton keep drawing those black and white comarisons.

If your daughter is raped and killed by a russian instead of a hamas member, does that make her less dead? Would that make it any easier on you? You lying idiot trumptard hypcrite oath breaker.

 

[i am herdman]

If your daughter is raped and killed by a russian instead of a hamas member, does that make her less dead? Would that make it any easier on you? You lying idiot trumptard hypcrite oath breaker.

you are a dense idiot. I never said Ukraine does not have a right to defend itself.

I don't like the Russians. I really don't like terrorists either.

You live in such a small minded bubble. You probably didn't even know where Ukraine was a few years ago and never cared about them until you were told you needed to and you wanted to virtue signal. Hey, let's go to war in African too. Let's take on China. Let's go into take on N Koread right now.

Oh, the Yankees burned Atlanta to the ground and Columbia SC. They raped and pillaged also. Burnt entire cities to the ground. Should that hatchet be buried?

Here is the reality summed up. The world has become less stable and more dangerous under the pure idiot in the White House. Remember when the pur idiot said the war on terror was over? Well guess what? Turn the news on.

 

[extragreen]

you are a dense idiot. I never said Ukraine does not have a right to defend itself.

I don't like the Russians. I really don't like terrorists either.

You live in such a small minded bubble. You probably didn't even know where Ukraine was a few years ago and never cared about them until you were told you needed to and you wanted to virtue signal. Hey, let's go to war in African too. Let's take on China. Let's go into take on N Koread right now.

Oh, the Yankees burned Atlanta to the ground and Columbia SC. They raped and pillaged also. Burnt entire cities to the ground.

If your daughter is raped and killed by a russian instead of a hamas member, does that make her less dead? Would that make it any easier on you? You lying idiot trumptard hypcrite oath breaker.

 

[-CarlHungus-]

 

[i am herdman]

If your daughter is raped and killed by a russian instead of a hamas member, does that make her less dead? Would that make it any easier on you? You lying idiot trumptard hypcrite oath breaker.

Would you stand up and fight or let someone else do it? Do you care about the Afghan women being tortured by the taliban? How about the allies we left there that were executed? Want to see some video of it?

 

[30CAT]

Hey, let's go to war in African too. Let's take on China. Let's go into take on N Koread right now.

With Pedo-Joe at the helm, we aren't too far off from that. I don't know that it would include Africa though.

 

[i am herdman]

View embedded media

what i saw yesterday was a war footing from the US Senate. 97-0 vote.

We are in a seriously dangerous position right now.

 

[i am herdman]

With Pedo-Joe at the helm, we aren't too far off from that. I don't know that is would include Africa though.

hahaha, the American people have no idea. We are running more mission sets there than anywhere else. has been a hotspot for years. It is near the top of the list. We have a LOTTTT going on there. Research and fine out. You would be surprised what is going on there. It is a major hotspot. Lots of terrorist cells there. Also, lots of resources. Horn of Africa vital to international trade. China, Russia, etc. in there big time. It is going to be a big time area of interest for years and it was during the GWOT big time.

 

[GeauxHerd]

Why do you think Israel's situation and Ukraine's situation are the same?

Furthermore, it is reported the Obama God is saying Israel should restrain and reports the Mush admin are doing the same.

But, again, greed is acting like a simpleton. Ukraine's situation and Israel's are two different things. One was a terrorist attack. The other was a nation attacking another nation and two standing arrmies fighting each other in a major land war. But, hey simpleton keep drawing those black and white comarisons.

Exactly. Ukraine and Russia are both sovereign countries engaged in conflict because diplomacy disputes. Hamas is not a country and is engaged in terrorist activities against a sovereign country

 

[30CAT]

If your daughter is raped and killed by a russian instead of a hamas member, does that make her less dead? Would that make it any easier on you? You lying idiot trumptard hypcrite oath breaker.

Unlike Israel, Ukraine is not a NATO member.

 

[GeauxHerd]

Unlike Israel, Ukraine is not a NATO member.

NONE of this started until Obammy really started pushing for Ukraine nato membership along with supporting coup in Ukraine. It was after that that the Russians moved into crimea.

 

[SamSwimmer]

what i saw yesterday was a war footing from the US Senate. 97-0 vote.

We are in a seriously dangerous position right now.

Most of the guys I know still serving are now in command roles of some sort. When I check in with them just to get their thoughts, they're all saying to expect major conflict with Iran. There are defense systems being moved into place in the Israel/Palestine region (THAAD being one) that only make sense if you're expecting to defend against far more sophisticated weapons.

 

[SamSwimmer]

NONE of this started until Obammy really started pushing for Ukraine nato membership along with supporting coup in Ukraine. It was after that that the Russians moved into crimea.

The wiki-cables practically laying everything out - including the ramifications if they continue their expansion, are out there. Williams Burns, who Biden elevated to the lead gig at the CIA, is specifically named in them. If intelligence predicts an outcome based on proposed actions, you know it's almost certain your actions will prompt said outcome, & do the actions regardless, the reaction is hardly unprovoked. If anything, you're getting the reaction you expected & therefore wanted.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Were one so inclined they could take most of the things you’ve said Hamas did (and Hamas did do those things, or enough of them that I won’t quibble) and accuse Israel of the same, and be right. And Israel, being the state that claims and controls Gaza, has a responsibility to try and not kill a bunch of civilians living in territory that they control.

The problem is much larger than anything to do with the attack a few weeks ago, or the response to it now. It’s bigger than Hamas. The question is: what happens to the Palestinians? You can’t fix any of this without fixing that. You can go in and kill every member of Hamas and you’ll just have that many new members tomorrow. Because as long as you have a huge group of people living in what amounts to an open-air prison you’re going to have a hotbed of extremists.

We’ve seen what Israel does if you don’t have an armed resistance. It’s called the West Bank. They come and bulldoze your houses and move you into an increasingly small, progressively worse (in terms of fertility, resources, etc) area, and put up their own villages on top of your old ones. West Bank could be negotiated with but Israel doesn’t, which undercuts their moral superiority over Hamas quite a bit.

So what do you do? I sure don’t have an answer. “Move everybody to Jordan” sure doesn’t seem like a viable answer. There are 5 million people who don’t want to move, and Jordan only has 10 million people so integration would be practically impossible. “Create their own country” would work in the long term, but they can’t agree on lines. The West Bank is a crisscrossed disaster of settlements and there may be no untangling it now. “Let Israel genocide them” is ****ing horrific.

My point is that all the arguing over what it’s ok to bomb and what it isn’t, and what sort of response is justified and what isn’t, all doesn’t really matter in the big picture. They’re horrific human tragedies but deciding one way or the other doesn’t really get us any closer to whatever the final solution will be.

Damn, there’s a phrase I’ve heard before.

Reality is always complicated.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Unlike Israel, Ukraine is not a NATO member.

 

[30CAT]

Idiots threw rocks at a hornets' nest and now are crying because they are getting stung. I hope Israel crushes Hamas and anyone who tries to prevent them from doing it.