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1848

i am herdman

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Saw this today. Do they teach this in school?
---------------

In 1848, there was an extraordinary exchange in the US Senate between Senators John Dix of New York and Jefferson Davis of Mississippi. In his speech, Dix had stated that “free blacks would continue to be an inferior cast and simply die out." This was a common theme among Northerners. BTW Fort Dix is named for him!

Upon hearing these remarks, Senator Davis rose to respond: “With surprise and horror I heard this announcement of a policy which seeks, through poverty and degradation, the extinction of a race of human beings domesticated among us. We, sir, stand in such a relation to that people as creates a feeling of kindness and protection. We have attachments which have grown with us from childhood – to the old servant who nursed us in infancy, to the man who was the companion of our childhood, and the not less tender regard for those who have been reared under our protection. To hear their extinction treated as a matter of public policy or of speculative philosophy arouses our sympathy and our indignation.”
 
Scouraged-Back-Private-Gordon-1863-M.Brady_.jpg
 
How about the Dix quote? He still gets a military base named after him.

They don't even teach real history.
I can point to quite a few Robert Byrd quotes, filibusters, & votes - & damn near everything in WV is still named after him. Ironically, dems are trying to whitewash their support for him & his decades of racism.
 
Last edited:
Jesus ****ing christ the whitewashing of Davis’ description of Slavery

Speaking of whitewashing you seem to do a nice job of that regarding the pre- (and post) Civil War racial attitudes of the North...

slavery was immoral plain and simple.

No one is disputing that. Funny that liberals would rather debate 170 years ago rather than acknowledge that it is still occurring today in many parts of the world including the Congo and China...
 
Thank you socialists, unions and the left for pushing against this awful child labor.

Speaking of whitewashing you seem to do a nice job of that regarding the pre- (and post) Civil War racial attitudes of the North...
Not sure when I did that or commented at all on it but I’m sure the vast majority of people in the North were super racist at the time too. I’ve said many times that the North wasn’t going to go fight a war about slavery because it wouldn’t have the support.
 
New York

Working Conditions​

Body
In the nineteenth century, most new immigrants were unskilled laborers. Many found jobs in the factories of New York City, Buffalo, and other cities around the state. Jobs were plentiful in the industrializing American economy, but the low pay, long hours and deplorable conditions fell far short of the immigrants’ expectations.
Young children were forced to forego the opportunity of a free public education so that they could work to help support their families. Much to the dismay of progressive reformers, immigrant parents often forced their children to drop out of school so that they could be put to work in mines, mills, factories and farms.
Factory management insisted on adherence to timecards, a modern and foreign concept to immigrants from rural areas who were more accustomed to keeping pace by the agricultural cycles. Sharing an enclosed work space with other workers, surrounded by loud mechanized equipment, and overseen by demanding management added to the immigrants’ discomfort as they sought the American Dream.
Outside of factories, options for unskilled laborers in the late 19th century included manual labor such as digging sewer and roads, collecting garbage, and working construction. Immigrants also served in New York’s most dangerous occupations, such as firefighting.
Employers took advantage of the most recent immigrants, who were often referred to as “greenhorns.” Businesses often hired them to perform the most menial jobs and paid them less than other workers for “training.” Workers laid off during slow seasons or slack time did not receive any pay while they were out of work. If workers spoke up about their low wages, excessive hours or conditions, they found themselves blacklisted and branded as troublemakers, making it impossible to find employment.
Women who encountered sexual harassment from their supervisors kept silent for fear of losing their jobs. Some women became so desperate that they entered into prostitution or, as it was commonly known, “white slavery.”
Garment workers often worked for piece rates, making a fraction of a cent for each piece of garment they finished sewing, usually by hand. In March 1911, 146 young immigrant women died at the Triangle Shirtwaist Company in New York’s Greenwich Village, exposing the horrendous factory conditions to the nation and prompting public demands for reform.
Following the fire, New York State legislature formed a Factory Investigating Commission in 1912 to investigate workplace conditions. The commission’s six-volume report took three years to complete and resulted in over thirty workplace safety laws that continue to impact workers today. New York State became a leader in the area of industrial safety reform and many of the progressive reformers, including Frances Perkins, who served on the commission, forged careers in politics and government further advance that cause.
Image & Captions:
Item Image:

Women pose in a hop field during harvesting, circa 1880.
Item Caption:
Women pose in a hop field during harvesting, circa 1880, courtesy of Fenimore Art Museum
Late 19th century Otsego and Madison Counties were known for producing “King Crop”: hops for brewing beer. Most of those hops were picked by migrant families in August and September. Employers favored young people, especially girls, for the work because hop picking relied on nimble fingers.

View item information
Item Image:
School Year Repeaters, 1910.
Item Caption:
School Year Repeaters, 1910, courtesy of Library of Congress, Prints & Photographs Division, National Child Labor Committee Collection, [LC-DIG-nclc-00780].
Sarah Saneri, Lucy Martina, Carmelo Castanzo, and Josephine Guercio are all repeating a year of school, having missed 11-13 weeks each while working in canneries and factories. They lived in the crowded, predominantly Italian Canal District of Buffalo. Lucy, 16, and Carmelo, 12, were both born in Italy.
View item information
Item Image:
Time card for 117 hours.
Item Caption:
Time card for 117 hours, courtesy of the New York State Archives
Time card from 1911 for Miss Jennie Hackemans, who worked for 166 hours over two weeks and earned $16.60 for her efforts.

View item information
Item Image:
Malachi Kraham, Chief, Neptune Company #3, 1885.
Item Caption:
Malachi Kraham, Chief, Neptune Company #3, 1885, courtesy of Fenimore Art Museum, Cooperstown, New York. Smith and Telfer Glass Plate Negative Collection. Gift of Arthur J. Telfer. N0226.1951.
Malachi Kraham, born in Ireland in 1844, immigrated to New York in 1859. He and his Irish-born wife Johanna Malloy raised eight children on his income as a grocer, and he served in the Otsego Fire Department as well.

View item information
Item Image:
F. Jacobson and Sons, 77 Cornell Street, Kingston, New York, circa 1920.
Item Caption:
F. Jacobson and Sons, 77 Cornell Street, Kingston, New York, circa 1920, courtesy of Friends of Historic Kingston
Employees at F. Jacobson and Sons work on sewing shirts. The Kingston F. Jacobson and Sons was opened on February 13, 1917. The company had factories in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, and New York.

View item information
Item Image:
Empire Corset Co. Sewing Division, McGraw NY.
Item Caption:
Empire Corset Co. Sewing Division, McGraw NY, courtesy of McGraw Historical Society
The sewing machine division of Empire Corset Co. was mainly staffed by women. McGraw, NY, in Cortland County, was referred to as "Corset City" in 1898.
View item information
Item Image:
Willowvale Bleachery/sewing room, New Hartford, NY.
Item Caption:
Willowvale Bleachery/sewing room, New Hartford, NY, courtesy of New Hartford Public Library
Women pause from production in the Willowvale Bleachery's sewing room in New Hartford, while their male supervisors stand behind the work tables.
View item information
Item Image:
New York’s Worst Fire, 1911.
Item Caption:
New York’s Worst Fire, 1911, courtesy of Columbia University Library
Harper’s Weekly published many photographs from the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, including those of bodies on the street. Frances Perkins kept a copy of this page in her personal files.
View item information
 
New York

Working Conditions​

Body
In the nineteenth century, most new immigrants were unskilled laborers. Many found jobs in the factories of New York City, Buffalo, and other cities around the state. Jobs were plentiful in the industrializing American economy, but the low pay, long hours and deplorable conditions fell far short of the immigrants’ expectations.
Young children were forced to forego the opportunity of a free public education so that they could work to help support their families. Much to the dismay of progressive reformers, immigrant parents often forced their children to drop out of school so that they could be put to work in mines, mills, factories and farms.
Factory management insisted on adherence to timecards, a modern and foreign concept to immigrants from rural areas who were more accustomed to keeping pace by the agricultural cycles. Sharing an enclosed work space with other workers, surrounded by loud mechanized equipment, and overseen by demanding management added to the immigrants’ discomfort as they sought the American Dream.
Outside of factories, options for unskilled laborers in the late 19th century included manual labor such as digging sewer and roads, collecting garbage, and working construction. Immigrants also served in New York’s most dangerous occupations, such as firefighting.
Employers took advantage of the most recent immigrants, who were often referred to as “greenhorns.” Businesses often hired them to perform the most menial jobs and paid them less than other workers for “training.” Workers laid off during slow seasons or slack time did not receive any pay while they were out of work. If workers spoke up about their low wages, excessive hours or conditions, they found themselves blacklisted and branded as troublemakers, making it impossible to find employment.
Women who encountered sexual harassment from their supervisors kept silent for fear of losing their jobs. Some women became so desperate that they entered into prostitution or, as it was commonly known, “white slavery.”
Garment workers often worked for piece rates, making a fraction of a cent for each piece of garment they finished sewing, usually by hand. In March 1911, 146 young immigrant women died at the Triangle Shirtwaist Company in New York’s Greenwich Village, exposing the horrendous factory conditions to the nation and prompting public demands for reform.
Following the fire, New York State legislature formed a Factory Investigating Commission in 1912 to investigate workplace conditions. The commission’s six-volume report took three years to complete and resulted in over thirty workplace safety laws that continue to impact workers today. New York State became a leader in the area of industrial safety reform and many of the progressive reformers, including Frances Perkins, who served on the commission, forged careers in politics and government further advance that cause.
Image & Captions:
Item Image:

Women pose in a hop field during harvesting, circa 1880.
Item Caption:
Women pose in a hop field during harvesting, circa 1880, courtesy of Fenimore Art Museum
Late 19th century Otsego and Madison Counties were known for producing “King Crop”: hops for brewing beer. Most of those hops were picked by migrant families in August and September. Employers favored young people, especially girls, for the work because hop picking relied on nimble fingers.

View item information
Item Image:
School Year Repeaters, 1910.
Item Caption:
School Year Repeaters, 1910, courtesy of Library of Congress, Prints & Photographs Division, National Child Labor Committee Collection, [LC-DIG-nclc-00780].
Sarah Saneri, Lucy Martina, Carmelo Castanzo, and Josephine Guercio are all repeating a year of school, having missed 11-13 weeks each while working in canneries and factories. They lived in the crowded, predominantly Italian Canal District of Buffalo. Lucy, 16, and Carmelo, 12, were both born in Italy.
View item information
Item Image:
Time card for 117 hours.
Item Caption:
Time card for 117 hours, courtesy of the New York State Archives
Time card from 1911 for Miss Jennie Hackemans, who worked for 166 hours over two weeks and earned $16.60 for her efforts.

View item information
Item Image:
Malachi Kraham, Chief, Neptune Company #3, 1885.
Item Caption:
Malachi Kraham, Chief, Neptune Company #3, 1885, courtesy of Fenimore Art Museum, Cooperstown, New York. Smith and Telfer Glass Plate Negative Collection. Gift of Arthur J. Telfer. N0226.1951.
Malachi Kraham, born in Ireland in 1844, immigrated to New York in 1859. He and his Irish-born wife Johanna Malloy raised eight children on his income as a grocer, and he served in the Otsego Fire Department as well.

View item information
Item Image:
F. Jacobson and Sons, 77 Cornell Street, Kingston, New York, circa 1920.
Item Caption:
F. Jacobson and Sons, 77 Cornell Street, Kingston, New York, circa 1920, courtesy of Friends of Historic Kingston
Employees at F. Jacobson and Sons work on sewing shirts. The Kingston F. Jacobson and Sons was opened on February 13, 1917. The company had factories in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, and New York.

View item information
Item Image:
Empire Corset Co. Sewing Division, McGraw NY.
Item Caption:
Empire Corset Co. Sewing Division, McGraw NY, courtesy of McGraw Historical Society
The sewing machine division of Empire Corset Co. was mainly staffed by women. McGraw, NY, in Cortland County, was referred to as "Corset City" in 1898.
View item information
Item Image:
Willowvale Bleachery/sewing room, New Hartford, NY.
Item Caption:
Willowvale Bleachery/sewing room, New Hartford, NY, courtesy of New Hartford Public Library
Women pause from production in the Willowvale Bleachery's sewing room in New Hartford, while their male supervisors stand behind the work tables.
View item information
Item Image:
New York’s Worst Fire, 1911.
Item Caption:
New York’s Worst Fire, 1911, courtesy of Columbia University Library
Harper’s Weekly published many photographs from the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, including those of bodies on the street. Frances Perkins kept a copy of this page in her personal files.
View item information
You thinking posting horrible labor conditions in the early 20th century is some sort of “owning the libs” moment is profoundly confusing
 
You thinking posting horrible labor conditions in the early 20th century is some sort of “owning the libs” moment is profoundly confusing
No. I brought it up because people things are one Sided and they don't teach the totality of anything.
 
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You thinking posting horrible labor conditions in the early 20th century is some sort of “owning the libs” moment is profoundly confusing

Only because you seemed to give 100% of the credit for eliminating it to the libs???
 
Pretty sure that nearly everyone involved on any side of it claimed to be Christian but sure, Christians helped too.

Hmmm... Nearly everyone... Could that have been the impetus and commonality of the desire for reform?
 
New York

Working Conditions​

Body
In the nineteenth century, most new immigrants were unskilled laborers. Many found jobs in the factories of New York City, Buffalo, and other cities around the state. Jobs were plentiful in the industrializing American economy, but the low pay, long hours and deplorable conditions fell far short of the immigrants’ expectations.
Young children were forced to forego the opportunity of a free public education so that they could work to help support their families. Much to the dismay of progressive reformers, immigrant parents often forced their children to drop out of school so that they could be put to work in mines, mills, factories and farms.
Factory management insisted on adherence to timecards, a modern and foreign concept to immigrants from rural areas who were more accustomed to keeping pace by the agricultural cycles. Sharing an enclosed work space with other workers, surrounded by loud mechanized equipment, and overseen by demanding management added to the immigrants’ discomfort as they sought the American Dream.
Outside of factories, options for unskilled laborers in the late 19th century included manual labor such as digging sewer and roads, collecting garbage, and working construction. Immigrants also served in New York’s most dangerous occupations, such as firefighting.
Employers took advantage of the most recent immigrants, who were often referred to as “greenhorns.” Businesses often hired them to perform the most menial jobs and paid them less than other workers for “training.” Workers laid off during slow seasons or slack time did not receive any pay while they were out of work. If workers spoke up about their low wages, excessive hours or conditions, they found themselves blacklisted and branded as troublemakers, making it impossible to find employment.
Women who encountered sexual harassment from their supervisors kept silent for fear of losing their jobs. Some women became so desperate that they entered into prostitution or, as it was commonly known, “white slavery.”
Garment workers often worked for piece rates, making a fraction of a cent for each piece of garment they finished sewing, usually by hand. In March 1911, 146 young immigrant women died at the Triangle Shirtwaist Company in New York’s Greenwich Village, exposing the horrendous factory conditions to the nation and prompting public demands for reform.
Following the fire, New York State legislature formed a Factory Investigating Commission in 1912 to investigate workplace conditions. The commission’s six-volume report took three years to complete and resulted in over thirty workplace safety laws that continue to impact workers today. New York State became a leader in the area of industrial safety reform and many of the progressive reformers, including Frances Perkins, who served on the commission, forged careers in politics and government further advance that cause.
Image & Captions:
Item Image:

Women pose in a hop field during harvesting, circa 1880.
Item Caption:
Women pose in a hop field during harvesting, circa 1880, courtesy of Fenimore Art Museum
Late 19th century Otsego and Madison Counties were known for producing “King Crop”: hops for brewing beer. Most of those hops were picked by migrant families in August and September. Employers favored young people, especially girls, for the work because hop picking relied on nimble fingers.

View item information
Item Image:
School Year Repeaters, 1910.
Item Caption:
School Year Repeaters, 1910, courtesy of Library of Congress, Prints & Photographs Division, National Child Labor Committee Collection, [LC-DIG-nclc-00780].
Sarah Saneri, Lucy Martina, Carmelo Castanzo, and Josephine Guercio are all repeating a year of school, having missed 11-13 weeks each while working in canneries and factories. They lived in the crowded, predominantly Italian Canal District of Buffalo. Lucy, 16, and Carmelo, 12, were both born in Italy.
View item information
Item Image:
Time card for 117 hours.
Item Caption:
Time card for 117 hours, courtesy of the New York State Archives
Time card from 1911 for Miss Jennie Hackemans, who worked for 166 hours over two weeks and earned $16.60 for her efforts.

View item information
Item Image:
Malachi Kraham, Chief, Neptune Company #3, 1885.
Item Caption:
Malachi Kraham, Chief, Neptune Company #3, 1885, courtesy of Fenimore Art Museum, Cooperstown, New York. Smith and Telfer Glass Plate Negative Collection. Gift of Arthur J. Telfer. N0226.1951.
Malachi Kraham, born in Ireland in 1844, immigrated to New York in 1859. He and his Irish-born wife Johanna Malloy raised eight children on his income as a grocer, and he served in the Otsego Fire Department as well.

View item information
Item Image:
F. Jacobson and Sons, 77 Cornell Street, Kingston, New York, circa 1920.
Item Caption:
F. Jacobson and Sons, 77 Cornell Street, Kingston, New York, circa 1920, courtesy of Friends of Historic Kingston
Employees at F. Jacobson and Sons work on sewing shirts. The Kingston F. Jacobson and Sons was opened on February 13, 1917. The company had factories in Delaware, Maryland, New Jersey, and New York.

View item information
Item Image:
Empire Corset Co. Sewing Division, McGraw NY.
Item Caption:
Empire Corset Co. Sewing Division, McGraw NY, courtesy of McGraw Historical Society
The sewing machine division of Empire Corset Co. was mainly staffed by women. McGraw, NY, in Cortland County, was referred to as "Corset City" in 1898.
View item information
Item Image:
Willowvale Bleachery/sewing room, New Hartford, NY.
Item Caption:
Willowvale Bleachery/sewing room, New Hartford, NY, courtesy of New Hartford Public Library
Women pause from production in the Willowvale Bleachery's sewing room in New Hartford, while their male supervisors stand behind the work tables.
View item information
Item Image:
New York’s Worst Fire, 1911.
Item Caption:
New York’s Worst Fire, 1911, courtesy of Columbia University Library
Harper’s Weekly published many photographs from the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, including those of bodies on the street. Frances Perkins kept a copy of this page in her personal files.
View item information
Scouraged-Back-Private-Gordon-1863-M.Brady_.jpg
 
Hmmm... Nearly everyone... Could that have been the impetus and commonality of the desire for reform?
It didn’t seem to motivate the self proclaimed Christians in the south to free the slaves.

No. I brought it up because people things are one Sided and they don't teach the totality of anything.
I disagree that it isn’t taught. I vividly remember reading The Jungle in school, and learning a lot about indentured servitude. You’re tilting at windmills yet again.
 
Yeah, but those Christians were Communists.

Well you don't know the difference between libertarians and liberals so I'm sure you don't know the difference between Christians and communists... Why, you’ve even called me a commie...
 
It didn’t seem to motivate the self proclaimed Christians in the south to free the slaves.

Nor in the North either evidently...

Serious question - you seem to turn every one of these discussions into the moral superiority of the North. Do you believe immigrants in the North were treated better than slaves in the South?
 
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