And another thing
- Thread starter GK4Herd
- Start date
No, look at history. You are a history teacher. What empire or nation such as the US has ever made it?
We are young as a country that is riddled in debt and it is only going to get worse as we cater to the influx of immigration and dead beats. Plus, we are trying to support half of the world in one way or another. Throw in the destruction of the middle class and loss of an industrial base that produces goods and we are hosed.
I just don't see how we make it. Hopefully, the clock gets milked long enough to let me ride it out. Hopefully for my son as well.
We are young as a country that is riddled in debt and it is only going to get worse as we cater to the influx of immigration and dead beats. Plus, we are trying to support half of the world in one way or another. Throw in the destruction of the middle class and loss of an industrial base that produces goods and we are hosed.
I just don't see how we make it. Hopefully, the clock gets milked long enough to let me ride it out. Hopefully for my son as well.
I don't teach history but I read a lot about it. There is no comparison of the opportunities, standard of living, and access to make whatever you want out of your life today compared to any time in our history. I'm sure there was plenty of hand wringing when we moved from an agrarian to industrial based economy. But we not only survived we prospered. We'll do the same as we move away from an industrial based economy. We quite simply live in the greatest nation during a time that affords us the greatest access to the highest standard of living ever in the history of the world. To believe otherwise is to willfully forgo any semblance of logical thought in order to sate a need to be outraged.
And do your kids a favor. Don't convince them that they live during a time where they have to "ride it out". Convince them that they have all the tools necessary to make what they want out of life. Standing around decrying some mythical fall from grace because our government made a decision about something that doesn't even affect us if we don't poke our nose in it only serves to throw self imposed roadblocks in front of ourselves.
Hell, from reading your posts over the years it appears you've done quite well for yourself. Have your kids focus on that success story. But for crying out loud, don't expect everyone else to join in the self imposed outrage.
And do your kids a favor. Don't convince them that they live during a time where they have to "ride it out". Convince them that they have all the tools necessary to make what they want out of life. Standing around decrying some mythical fall from grace because our government made a decision about something that doesn't even affect us if we don't poke our nose in it only serves to throw self imposed roadblocks in front of ourselves.
Hell, from reading your posts over the years it appears you've done quite well for yourself. Have your kids focus on that success story. But for crying out loud, don't expect everyone else to join in the self imposed outrage.
Rod Dreher is a senior editor and blogger at The American Conservative.
Voting Republican and other failed culture war strategies are not going to save us now
No, the sky is not falling — not yet, anyway — but with the Supreme Court ruling constitutionalizing same-sex marriage, the ground under our feet has shifted tectonically.
It is hard to overstate the significance of the Obergefelldecision — and the seriousness of the challenges it presents to orthodox Christians and other social conservatives. Voting Republican and other failed culture war strategies are not going to save us now.
Discerning the meaning of the present moment requires sobriety, precisely because its radicalism requires of conservatives a realistic sense of how weak our position is in post-Christian America.
The alarm that the four dissenting justices sounded in their minority opinions is chilling. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Antonin Scalia were particularly scathing in pointing out the philosophical and historical groundlessness of the majority’s opinion. Justice Scalia even called the decision “a threat to democracy,” and denounced it, shockingly, in the language of revolution.
It is now clear that for this Court, extremism in the pursuit of the Sexual Revolution’s goals is no vice. True, the majority opinion nodded and smiled in the direction of the First Amendment, in an attempt to calm the fears of those worried about religious liberty. But when a Supreme Court majority is willing to invent rights out of nothing, it is impossible to have faith that the First Amendment will offer any but the barest protection to religious dissenters from gay rights orthodoxy.
Indeed, Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito explicitly warned religious traditionalists that this decision leaves them vulnerable. Alito warns that Obergefell “will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy,” and will be used to oppress the faithful “by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent.”
The warning to conservatives from the four dissenters could hardly be clearer or stronger. So where does that leave us?
For one, we have to accept that we really are living in a culturally post-Christian nation. The fundamental norms Christians have long been able to depend on no longer exist. To be frank, the court majority may impose on the rest of the nation a view widely shared by elites, but it is also a view shared by a majority of Americans. There will be no widespread popular resistance to Obergefell. This is the new normal.
For another, LGBT activists and their fellow travelers really will be coming after social conservatives. The Supreme Court has now, in constitutional doctrine, said that homosexuality is equivalent to race. The next goal of activists will be a long-term campaign to remove tax-exempt status from dissenting religious institutions. The more immediate goal will be the shunning and persecution of dissenters within civil society. After today, all religious conservatives are Brendan Eich, the former CEO of Mozilla who was chased out of that company for supporting California’s Proposition 8.
Third, the Court majority wrote that gays and lesbians do not want to change the institution of marriage, but rather want to benefit from it. This is hard to believe, given more recent writing from gay activists like Dan Savage expressing a desire to loosen the strictures of monogamy in all marriages. Besides, if marriage can be redefined according to what we desire — that is, if there is no essential nature to marriage, or to gender — then there are no boundaries on marriage. Marriage inevitably loses its power.
In that sense, social and religious conservatives must recognize that theObergefell decision did not come from nowhere. It is the logical result of the Sexual Revolution, which valorized erotic liberty. It has been widely and correctly observed that heterosexuals began to devalue marriage long before same-sex marriage became an issue. The individualism at the heart of contemporary American culture is at the core of Obergefell — and at the core of modern American life.
This is profoundly incompatible with orthodox Christianity. But this is the world we live in today.
One can certainly understand the joy that LGBT Americans and their supporters feel today. But orthodox Christians must understand that things are going to get much more difficult for us. We are going to have to learn how to live as exiles in our own country. We are going to have to learn how to live with at least a mild form of persecution. And we are going to have to change the way we practice our faith and teach it to our children, to build resilient communities.
It is time for what I call the Benedict Option. In his 1982 book After Virtue,the eminent philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre likened the current age to the fall of ancient Rome. He pointed to Benedict of Nursia, a pious young Christian who left the chaos of Rome to go to the woods to pray, as an example for us. We who want to live by the traditional virtues, MacIntyre said, have to pioneer new ways of doing so in community. We await, he said “a new — and doubtless very different — St. Benedict.”
Throughout the early Middle Ages, Benedict’s communities formed monasteries, and kept the light of faith burning through the surrounding cultural darkness. Eventually, the Benedictine monks helped refound civilization.
I believe that orthodox Christians today are called to be those new and very different St. Benedicts. How do we take the Benedict Option, and build resilient communities within our condition of internal exile, and under increasingly hostile conditions? I don’t know. But we had better figure this out together, and soon, while there is time.
Last fall, I spoke with the prior of the Benedictine monastery in Nursia, and told him about the Benedict Option. So many Christians, he told me, have no clue how far things have decayed in our aggressively secularizing world. The future for Christians will be within the Benedict Option, the monk said, or it won’t be at all.
Obergefell is a sign of the times, for those with eyes to see. This isn’t the view of wild-eyed prophets wearing animal skins and shouting in the desert. It is the view of four Supreme Court justices, in effect declaring from the bench the decline and fall of the traditional American social, political, and legal order.
We live in interesting times.
Voting Republican and other failed culture war strategies are not going to save us now
No, the sky is not falling — not yet, anyway — but with the Supreme Court ruling constitutionalizing same-sex marriage, the ground under our feet has shifted tectonically.
It is hard to overstate the significance of the Obergefelldecision — and the seriousness of the challenges it presents to orthodox Christians and other social conservatives. Voting Republican and other failed culture war strategies are not going to save us now.
Discerning the meaning of the present moment requires sobriety, precisely because its radicalism requires of conservatives a realistic sense of how weak our position is in post-Christian America.
The alarm that the four dissenting justices sounded in their minority opinions is chilling. Chief Justice John Roberts and Justice Antonin Scalia were particularly scathing in pointing out the philosophical and historical groundlessness of the majority’s opinion. Justice Scalia even called the decision “a threat to democracy,” and denounced it, shockingly, in the language of revolution.
It is now clear that for this Court, extremism in the pursuit of the Sexual Revolution’s goals is no vice. True, the majority opinion nodded and smiled in the direction of the First Amendment, in an attempt to calm the fears of those worried about religious liberty. But when a Supreme Court majority is willing to invent rights out of nothing, it is impossible to have faith that the First Amendment will offer any but the barest protection to religious dissenters from gay rights orthodoxy.
Indeed, Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Samuel Alito explicitly warned religious traditionalists that this decision leaves them vulnerable. Alito warns that Obergefell “will be used to vilify Americans who are unwilling to assent to the new orthodoxy,” and will be used to oppress the faithful “by those who are determined to stamp out every vestige of dissent.”
The warning to conservatives from the four dissenters could hardly be clearer or stronger. So where does that leave us?
For one, we have to accept that we really are living in a culturally post-Christian nation. The fundamental norms Christians have long been able to depend on no longer exist. To be frank, the court majority may impose on the rest of the nation a view widely shared by elites, but it is also a view shared by a majority of Americans. There will be no widespread popular resistance to Obergefell. This is the new normal.
For another, LGBT activists and their fellow travelers really will be coming after social conservatives. The Supreme Court has now, in constitutional doctrine, said that homosexuality is equivalent to race. The next goal of activists will be a long-term campaign to remove tax-exempt status from dissenting religious institutions. The more immediate goal will be the shunning and persecution of dissenters within civil society. After today, all religious conservatives are Brendan Eich, the former CEO of Mozilla who was chased out of that company for supporting California’s Proposition 8.
Third, the Court majority wrote that gays and lesbians do not want to change the institution of marriage, but rather want to benefit from it. This is hard to believe, given more recent writing from gay activists like Dan Savage expressing a desire to loosen the strictures of monogamy in all marriages. Besides, if marriage can be redefined according to what we desire — that is, if there is no essential nature to marriage, or to gender — then there are no boundaries on marriage. Marriage inevitably loses its power.
In that sense, social and religious conservatives must recognize that theObergefell decision did not come from nowhere. It is the logical result of the Sexual Revolution, which valorized erotic liberty. It has been widely and correctly observed that heterosexuals began to devalue marriage long before same-sex marriage became an issue. The individualism at the heart of contemporary American culture is at the core of Obergefell — and at the core of modern American life.
This is profoundly incompatible with orthodox Christianity. But this is the world we live in today.
One can certainly understand the joy that LGBT Americans and their supporters feel today. But orthodox Christians must understand that things are going to get much more difficult for us. We are going to have to learn how to live as exiles in our own country. We are going to have to learn how to live with at least a mild form of persecution. And we are going to have to change the way we practice our faith and teach it to our children, to build resilient communities.
It is time for what I call the Benedict Option. In his 1982 book After Virtue,the eminent philosopher Alasdair MacIntyre likened the current age to the fall of ancient Rome. He pointed to Benedict of Nursia, a pious young Christian who left the chaos of Rome to go to the woods to pray, as an example for us. We who want to live by the traditional virtues, MacIntyre said, have to pioneer new ways of doing so in community. We await, he said “a new — and doubtless very different — St. Benedict.”
Throughout the early Middle Ages, Benedict’s communities formed monasteries, and kept the light of faith burning through the surrounding cultural darkness. Eventually, the Benedictine monks helped refound civilization.
I believe that orthodox Christians today are called to be those new and very different St. Benedicts. How do we take the Benedict Option, and build resilient communities within our condition of internal exile, and under increasingly hostile conditions? I don’t know. But we had better figure this out together, and soon, while there is time.
Last fall, I spoke with the prior of the Benedictine monastery in Nursia, and told him about the Benedict Option. So many Christians, he told me, have no clue how far things have decayed in our aggressively secularizing world. The future for Christians will be within the Benedict Option, the monk said, or it won’t be at all.
Obergefell is a sign of the times, for those with eyes to see. This isn’t the view of wild-eyed prophets wearing animal skins and shouting in the desert. It is the view of four Supreme Court justices, in effect declaring from the bench the decline and fall of the traditional American social, political, and legal order.
We live in interesting times.
It is not mythical at all. We do live in good times. So good in fact many people have their head buried in the sand.
How many people actually serve the country anymore? Well, you have heard of the 1% right? How many kids you know willing to serve the country? Well, let somebody elses kid go do it. Look at what we all spend on now? Clothes, food, excess, sports, tv;s, etc. Frankly, this country is spoiled rotten. We are pampered.
We simply can't pay for it anymore. Look at the bloated government and those who receive some type of handout.
I bet you could shut the lights out in Huntington for a week and it would like Beirut.
I firmly believe this country is on a downward spiral. Multiculturalism. No vested in interest. Corrupt politicians. Corrupt businesses controlling politicians. Letting a few pay for it all. Destruction of the middle class. Corporate sellouts.
I never,ever thought I would say it but we are on a track to self destruction. I will tell my son that. This is not the America that was great nor the one we grew up in.
Don't ever think anything is too big to fail, including this country.
You started all of your rants due to the recent Supreme Court decision. None of your laundry list of complaints in your last post has anything to do with that. I'm not going to debate an issue that jumps from one subject to another to another. But I will say this...in my opinion you aren't helping your kids by telling them they are living in a country heading down the road to destruction. All you do is give them some intangible excuse for failure. In my opinion you tell them that even though there might be obstacles, those obstacles are nowhere near as insurmountable as they are in other countries. (And they aren't) I tell mine that the type of country they have and the life they get is the one they make for themselves.
You're in sales. You're good at it. There's no way you can be as successful as you've been and take the attitude that you have. Sales is a no excuse business. Sh** happens, red tape, administrative incompetence, etc...yet you overcame all of that. I'd bet you my house that you've looked poorly upon those who washed out of your business that left blaming everyone but themselves. Yet here you are starting thread after thread of "sky is falling" posts. I personally don't think you buy into your own rhetoric. I think what it's really about is how you feel when you express rage.
Take my "Herdmanian Rant" thread for example.
You're in sales. You're good at it. There's no way you can be as successful as you've been and take the attitude that you have. Sales is a no excuse business. Sh** happens, red tape, administrative incompetence, etc...yet you overcame all of that. I'd bet you my house that you've looked poorly upon those who washed out of your business that left blaming everyone but themselves. Yet here you are starting thread after thread of "sky is falling" posts. I personally don't think you buy into your own rhetoric. I think what it's really about is how you feel when you express rage.
Take my "Herdmanian Rant" thread for example.
I don't think the country will fail. It could, but my thought is at some point good men will eventually stand up and say enough is enough.
At our current rate, I think we are are heading into deep trouble as a nation.
At our current rate, I think we are are heading into deep trouble as a nation.
