Beating someone with a pulse thread

[ohio herd]

Once again I hear how bad we are based on who we have played. So I decided to give you guys some hard numbers to look at. I will compare the 1998 and 1999 season to this year 2018

1999 regular season
Clemson 6-5 w
Bowling Green 5-6 w
Temple 2-9 w
Miami Ohio 7-4 w
Toledo 6-5 w
Buffalo 0-11 w
NIU 5-6 w
Kent 2-9 w
wmu 7-5 w
Ohio 5-6 w
We had 1 win over FCS Liberty

1998 regular season
Akron 4-7 w
South Carolina 1-10 w
Eastern Mich 3-8 w
Miami of Ohio 10-1 w
Ohio 5-6 w
Kent 0-11 w
Ball State 1-10 w
Central Mich 6-5 w
Bowling Green 5-6 L
we had 2 wins over FCS schools Troy and a near loss (29-27) to Wofford

2018 regular season
Miami of Ohio 6-6 w
NC State 8-3 L
WKU 3-9 w
MTSU 8-4 L
ODU 4-8 w
Fl Atlantic 5-7 w
USM 6-5 L
UNCC 5-7 w
UTSA 3-9 w
FIU 8-4 w
We beat EKU which is FCS

If you look at these three seasons you will see that 2 of the best teams we ever fielded with a Heisman Trophy Finalist -QB didn't exactly play a "murderers row" schedule either. So lighten up fellows. We play who we have on the schedule. I personally don't see much difference between the 3 years in question with the obvious other 2 seasons we had a better record.

 

[Herd-nificent]

You make some good points....especially to "lighten up" and enjoy team.

 

[GreenDuke]

Once again I hear how bad we are based on who we have played. So I decided to give you guys some hard numbers to look at. I will compare the 1998 and 1999 season to this year 2018

1999 regular season
Clemson 6-5 w
Bowling Green 5-6 w
Temple 2-9 w
Miami Ohio 7-4 w
Toledo 6-5 w
Buffalo 0-11 w
NIU 5-6 w
Kent 2-9 w
wmu 7-5 w
Ohio 5-6 w
We had 1 win over FCS Liberty

1998 regular season
Akron 4-7 w
South Carolina 1-10 w
Eastern Mich 3-8 w
Miami of Ohio 10-1 w
Ohio 5-6 w
Kent 0-11 w
Ball State 1-10 w
Central Mich 6-5 w
Bowling Green 5-6 L
we had 2 wins over FCS schools Troy and a near loss (29-27) to Wofford

2018 regular season
Miami of Ohio 6-6 w
NC State 8-3 L
WKU 3-9 w
MTSU 8-4 L
ODU 4-8 w
Fl Atlantic 5-7 w
USM 6-5 L
UNCC 5-7 w
UTSA 3-9 w
FIU 8-4 w
We beat EKU which is FCS

If you look at these three seasons you will see that 2 of the best teams we ever fielded with a Heisman Trophy Finalist -QB didn't exactly play a "murderers row" schedule either. So lighten up fellows. We play who we have on the schedule. I personally don't see much difference between the 3 years in question with the obvious other 2 seasons we had a better record.

Does anyone think MU has ever played a “murderers row” schedule.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Does anyone think MU has ever played a “murderers row” schedule.

No, but past schedules do get romanticized a lot.

 

[i am herdman]

No, but past schedules do get romanticized a lot.

Not really the schedules. Those teams were good, really good. `1999 should not even be in a comparison to 2018.

 

[ohio herd]

Not really the schedules. Those teams were good, really good. `1999 should not even be in a comparison to 2018.

Nobody is comparing the two teams. Read the post again. The point is simple, They beat up on plenty of bad teams too. And you prove the point. In spite of the teams they played, we realize that both the 98/99 teams were really good. Is this year on the same level? Of course not. However, the claim we aren't legit because we didn't beat a bunch of good teams doesn't stand up when you look at the numbers.

 

[GreenDuke]

No, but past schedules do get romanticized a lot.

It seems to me that sometimes Marshall’s place in the landscape of college football gets romanticized. That’s what fans do and it’s all good. Makes things more fun, I say keep it going.

 

[i am herdman]

Nobody is comparing the two teams. Read the post again. The point is simple, They beat up on plenty of bad teams too. And you prove the point. In spite of the teams they played, we realize that both the 98/99 teams were really good. Is this year on the same level? Of course not. However, the claim we aren't legit because we didn't beat a bunch of good teams doesn't stand up when you look at the numbers.

we are not legit because we are not a very good or even great team right now. We are a mediocre team. We have a good defense and a putrid offense.

 

[31Herd55]

we are not legit because we are not a very good or even great team right now. We are a mediocre team. We have a good defense and a putrid offense.

But, but, but...we had 9 returning starters on that putrid offense...we only had 2 new guys to break.

Next man up, you know...only 2 men needed to step up under the watchful eye of Doc.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Is this a joke?

In 1999, Marshall beat 4 teams that finished with winning records. That includes an ACC school with a winning record.

In 1998, Marshall beat 2 teams that finished with winning records, one of which was a team that won every other single game they played including against an ACC team with a winning record.

In 2018, Marshall beat 1 team that finished with a winning record.

In those years, Marshall was not just finishing with a much better record, but it was doing it against better teams.

 

[i am herdman]

Is this a joke?

In 1999, Marshall beat 4 teams that finished with winning records. That includes an ACC school with a winning record.

In 1998, Marshall beat 2 teams that finished with winning records, one of which was a team that won every other single game they played including against an ACC team with a winning record.

In 2018, Marshall beat 1 team that finished with a winning record.

In those years, Marshall was not just finishing with a much better record, but it was doing it against better teams.

Not to mention guys like Chad Pennington, Doug Chapman, etc. God Bless, Byron Leftwich was our back up QB that year.

I think that team had 9 guys(seniors) go to NFL camps? Not to mention the depth chart.

That team was insanely good on both sides of the ball.

Good Lord, where do people come up with this stuff?

 

[Bankerreturns]

The other thing not mentioned, even if I give you that the schedules were similar, why ignore that we went 25-1 in 98-99. In 1999 we scored 35 points per game and gave up less than 11. Yes, similar crappy schedule, but we destroyed almost everyone. Now we gut out wins thanks to blocked punts against the same crappy teams. Why don't you post game scores next to those schedules and see if you start noticing more of a difference.

 

[ohio herd]

Put any spin on it you want but the facts speak for themselves. Since many on here worship the Sagrin ratings I will list them for you. The 2018 version ranks our schedule as the 119 most difficult. The Sagrin for 1999 listed us at 111. The Sagrin for 1998 listed us at 118. I did not say this team is better than those teams. I am saying that we play no less difficult schedule now than we did then.

 

[Sean Hammond]

Put any spin on it you want but the facts speak for themselves. Since many on here worship the Sagrin ratings I will list them for you. The 2018 version ranks our schedule as the 119 most difficult. The Sagrin for 1999 listed us at 111. The Sagrin for 1998 listed us at 118. I did not say this team is better than those teams. I am saying that we play no less difficult schedule now than we did then.

Nobody cares about who we play. We care about losing to who we’re playing. Like Banker said, we went 25-1 in the years you’re comparing this season’s schedule to. Nobody was complaining in 2014 because we were kicking ass. And I bet the schedule was worse then. Yeah, the WKU stung, but that was a hell of a fun year.

You’re missing the point about schedules. It’s not who we’re playing. It’s the fact we aren’t dominating who we’re playing.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Put any spin on it you want but the facts speak for themselves. Since many on here worship the Sagrin ratings I will list them for you. The 2018 version ranks our schedule as the 119 most difficult. The Sagrin for 1999 listed us at 111. The Sagrin for 1998 listed us at 118. I did not say this team is better than those teams. I am saying that we play no less difficult schedule now than we did then.

Try using some logic, please.

Pretend that the 1999 team played the teams ranked #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #116, #117, #118, #119, and #120.

That would put their average opponent rank (not schedule rank, but average opponent rank) as 60.5.

Now, pretend the 2018 team played the #56, #57, #58, #59, #60, #61, #62, #63, #64, and #65 ranked teams.

That would also put their average opponent rank as 60.5.

Which schedule is harder to have a good record against? Clearly, the first one is harder. You get five, what should be, guaranteed wins. But you also get, what should be, guaranteed losses.

Now, look at the second schedule. You face no good teams: all average teams. If you're simply a good but not great team, you should go at least 7-3 with that schedule even accounting for some weeks you lay an egg.

That's the same with the differences in schedules between the teams you listed and the 2018 teams. Marshall beat one decent team this year (FIU) compared with them beating multiple decent teams the other years.

 

[ohio herd]

Nobody cares about who we play. We care about losing to who we’re playing. Like Banker said, we went 25-1 in the years you’re comparing this season’s schedule to. Nobody was complaining in 2014 because we were kicking ass. And I bet the schedule was worse then. Yeah, the WKU stung, but that was a hell of a fun year.

You’re missing the point about schedules. It’s not who we’re playing. It’s the fact we aren’t dominating who we’re playing.

we didn't totally dominate everyone every game then either, look it up. Like the 2 point win over 3 win FCS Wofford in 98? Or maybe the 3 point win over Eastern Mich (3-9) that same yr in 98.Maybe you were referring to the domination of 5-6 Ohio that year when we won by 7. Or were you talking about the 9 point blow out of 4 win Akron? All I am saying is 8-3 counts.For the record plenty of people on here complained about our schedule in 2014. I wasn't one of them.

 

[ohio herd]

Try using some logic, please.

Pretend that the 1999 team played the teams ranked #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #116, #117, #118, #119, and #120.

That would put their average opponent rank (not schedule rank, but average opponent rank) as 60.5.

Now, pretend the 2018 team played the #56, #57, #58, #59, #60, #61, #62, #63, #64, and #65 ranked teams.

That would also put their average opponent rank as 60.5.

Which schedule is harder to have a good record against? Clearly, the first one is harder. You get five, what should be, guaranteed wins. But you also get, what should be, guaranteed losses.

Now, look at the second schedule. You face no good teams: all average teams. If you're simply a good but not great team, you should go at least 7-3 with that schedule even accounting for some weeks you lay an egg.

That's the same with the differences in schedules between the teams you listed and the 2018 teams. Marshall beat one decent team this year (FIU) compared with them beating multiple decent teams the other years.

Good Lord, I listed for you the Sagrin rankings and all you can do is come up with that? And for the third time I am not comparing this team with either of those teams. I am saying that an 8-3 record against this schedule carries no less weight than a 10-1 back then

 

[i am herdman]

we didn't totally dominate everyone every game then either, look it up. Like the 2 point win over 3 win FCS Wofford in 98? Or maybe the 3 point win over Eastern Mich (3-9) that same yr in 98.Maybe you were referring to the domination of 5-6 Ohio that year when we won by 7. Or were you talking about the 9 point blow out of 4 win Akron? All I am saying is 8-3 counts.For the record plenty of people on here complained about our schedule in 2014. I wasn't one of them.

8 and 3 doesn't count when you scatch the icing off the cake. We finished 2nd in the division and were eliminated for a championship in October because of a loss on our home field. We also lost another conference game on the road and were not competitive with NC State at home. We are underachieving and not winning championships. And, this is not the first time either. Look at our record the last 3 seasons. What it is it?

Good gravy, what do you fail to understand here? In 98 and 99(years you are talking about) we lost one game. Won two championships. Had a Top 10 ranking.

 

[ohio herd]

8 and 3 doesn't count when you scatch the icing off the cake. We finished 2nd in the division and were eliminated for a championship in October because of a loss on our home field. We also lost another conference game on the road and were not competitive with NC State at home. We are underachieving and not winning championships. And, this is not the first time either. Look at our record the last 3 seasons. What it is it?

Good gravy, what do you fail to understand here? In 98 and 99(years you are talking about) we lost one game. Won two championships. Had a Top 10 ranking.

Why can't you read better? I never compared the talent of this team to either of those teams. What I did was show that those teams beat a bunch of teams with "no pulse" as well. None of us question the talent on those teams, me included. Why is that simple premise so hard for you to understand? I say 8-3 is not diminished because of our schedule no more than a 10-1 season against an identical SOS in 98.

 

[i am herdman]

Why can't you read better? I never compared the talent of this team to either of those teams. What I did was show that those teams beat a bunch of teams with "no pulse" as well. None of us question the talent on those teams, me included. Why is that simple premise so hard for you to understand? I say 8-3 is not diminished because of our schedule no more than a 10-1 season against an identical SOS in 98.

The problem is we are not even winning our division.

 

[Bankerreturns]

Why can't you read better? I never compared the talent of this team to either of those teams. What I did was show that those teams beat a bunch of teams with "no pulse" as well. None of us question the talent on those teams, me included. Why is that simple premise so hard for you to understand? I say 8-3 is not diminished because of our schedule no more than a 10-1 season against an identical SOS in 98.

It's diminished by the fact we aren't 10-1. If we had gone 8-3 in 1998 we would have been mad at losing three games with a crap schedule. Don't know how you are missing that point. We aren't comparing the teams, we are comparing the results given the same schedule. We lost 200% more games against the same schedule. Also, the fact that we are worse against the same crap schedule in year 22 of being FBS than we were in year 2 of being FBS is telling as to the direction of the program.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Snyder actually played more difficult schedules, both in OOC and conference.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Good Lord, I listed for you the Sagrin rankings and all you can do is come up with that? And for the third time I am not comparing this team with either of those teams. I am saying that an 8-3 record against this schedule carries no less weight than a 10-1 back then

First, you keep typing "Sagrin." It is "Sagarin." If you can't spell it, it probably means you don't understand it, so you shouldn't use it.

Second, your last comment is absurd. Your own argument is that the schedule strength of those years is fairly equal. Yet you then go on to claim that going 8-3 is no worse than going 10-1 against a similar schedule strength? There's a huge difference there.

You wouldn't hear a peep from people on this board if Marshall had gone 10-1 against their schedule this year.

 

[pdbailey]

But, but, but...we had 9 returning starters on that putrid offense...we only had 2 new guys to break.

Next man up, you know...only 2 men needed to step up under the watchful eye of Doc.

Well, we lost our best OL player in game 4, our top 2 RBs only played a little over half of our games, and we had two QBs that had less FBS experience than our 3rd string QB Morrell. The offense was never going to be prolific with those issues popping up. If those guys had stayed healthy and Litton had returned for his SR year we would likely be playing for the conference title at home on Saturday. Hell, if Green hadn't gotten injured against WKU we would likely be doing it as well. That is what is frustrating about this team. The talent is there and the performances were close to the best in the conference, but we came up short due to key injuries. Let's see how we finish the season before we condemn this team.

 

[i am herdman]

Well, we lost our best OL player in game 4, our top 2 RBs only played a little over half of our games, and we had two QBs that had less FBS experience than our 3rd string QB Morrell. The offense was never going to be prolific with those issues popping up. If those guys had stayed healthy and Litton had returned for his SR year we would likely be playing for the conference title at home on Saturday. Hell, if Green hadn't gotten injured against WKU we would likely be doing it as well. That is what is frustrating about this team. The talent is there and the performances were close to the best in the conference, but we came up short due to key injuries. Let's see how we finish the season before we condemn this team.

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[31Herd55]

Keep telling yourself that.

It just doesn't seem fair that we are the only team that ever gets players injured...conspiracy!!!

 

[Herdon2]

But.....if we had played a better schedule we would have done well. This team with a better schedule does worse. That's the difference.

 

[Sash19]

Chase was a mental straitjacket. No damn way he would lead a team to a conference title.

 

[Marine03]

Difference is we won those

Once again I hear how bad we are based on who we have played. So I decided to give you guys some hard numbers to look at. I will compare the 1998 and 1999 season to this year 2018

1999 regular season
Clemson 6-5 w
Bowling Green 5-6 w
Temple 2-9 w
Miami Ohio 7-4 w
Toledo 6-5 w
Buffalo 0-11 w
NIU 5-6 w
Kent 2-9 w
wmu 7-5 w
Ohio 5-6 w
We had 1 win over FCS Liberty

1998 regular season
Akron 4-7 w
South Carolina 1-10 w
Eastern Mich 3-8 w
Miami of Ohio 10-1 w
Ohio 5-6 w
Kent 0-11 w
Ball State 1-10 w
Central Mich 6-5 w
Bowling Green 5-6 L
we had 2 wins over FCS schools Troy and a near loss (29-27) to Wofford

2018 regular season
Miami of Ohio 6-6 w
NC State 8-3 L
WKU 3-9 w
MTSU 8-4 L
ODU 4-8 w
Fl Atlantic 5-7 w
USM 6-5 L
UNCC 5-7 w
UTSA 3-9 w
FIU 8-4 w
We beat EKU which is FCS

If you look at these three seasons you will see that 2 of the best teams we ever fielded with a Heisman Trophy Finalist -QB didn't exactly play a "murderers row" schedule either. So lighten up fellows. We play who we have on the schedule. I personally don't see much difference between the 3 years in question with the obvious other 2 seasons we had a better record.

They didn’t play a murderers row schedule, but what they did do is win, nearly every game they played.

 

[caliherd]

What a silly comparison. Against a crap schedule in a crap conference just like the 2018 team had. The 1998 and 1999 Herd teams had a combined record of 21-1. They also won the East division both years of the MAC and the MAC championship games and overall MAC titles. So add 2 more wins, and both years they dominated their bowl competition to add 2 more wins.

So they had a 25-1 record, 2 conference championships, 2 bowl wins, 3 wins over BCS conference teams (it wasn’t the P5 at the time) and 2 of those wins were on the road and 1 heisman finalist. So tell me again how the 2018 team and those teams are remotely the same?

 

[ohio herd]

What a silly comparison. Against a crap schedule in a crap conference just like the 2018 team had. The 1998 and 1999 Herd teams had a combined record of 21-1. They also won the East division both years of the MAC and the MAC championship games and overall MAC titles. So add 2 more wins, and both years they dominated their bowl competition to add 2 more wins.

So they had a 25-1 record, 2 conference championships, 2 bowl wins, 3 wins over BCS conference teams (it wasn’t the P5 at the time) and 2 of those wins were on the road and 1 heisman finalist. So tell me again how the 201
8 team and those teams are remotely the same?[/QUOT

Good lord I never compared the teams. I compared the SOS. Sad you guys can'r figure that out.

 

[caliherd]

What we are saying is this. Yes those teams played crap schedules. The point is they won those crap schedules and won crap conference championships.
When you are 8-4 and the majority of the teams you play are ranked in the 100s you get criticism for being 8-4.