Imagine if MU were in their situation...with the money, student body, location, and market.
No doubt MU moves up.
Its absolutely insane to me that they aren't better on the football field given what they have.
BG
- Thread starter MichiganHerd
- Start date
Imagine if MU were in their situation...with the money, student body, location, and market.
No doubt MU moves up.
Its absolutely insane to me that they aren't better on the football field given what they have.
I could have sworn they came in here with only 5 wins to that point. My bad.
Correct but for some to pretend that CUSA is somehow better than the MAC is delusional. We both will always struggle for our piece of the pie. At least they have had teams play in a big bowl, us, nah.
Have those bowl games really bolstered anything relating to those programs? WMU was literally underwater at some point.
NIU can't fill their stadium despite being the 2nd best college football team in the state.
I'm not saying a NY6 bowl does nothing or isn't worth it BTW. I'm saying you think those programs would have maintained their success from those seasons.
I'm also not saying CUSA would do any better. If the CUSA commish can remember all the conference member schools, thats an accomplishment.
However, if MU made the NY6? We'd be all over that game and build on it for the future.
The MAC schools don't seem to do that.
You think C-USA wanted ODU so that other conference schools could recruit players from there?
Yeah, I bet UTEP uses the "Hey, Tidewater recruit, come halfway across the country so that you may get to play one time in front of your hometown during your entire career" line to a lot of success.
ODU came into C-USA in 2014, which gives them five years of history in the conference (and overall in FBS). During that span, they have averaged one win fewer per year in C-USA than Marshall.
Marshall has averaged five wins per year in conference games over the last five years. ODU has averaged four wins per year in conference games over the last five years.
Now, remember that Marshall has been playing FBS football for the last 22 years. ODU started playing FBS football when joining C-USA. In other words, Marshall had a huge advantage yet has averaged only one win more per year in C-USA games. That's pathetic.
And while we are at it, let's shoot down some of the myths that many people repeat:
Market and location, within reason, aren't direct major factors in a school's football success. Market is important in getting you in a better conference which can be a big help, but that makes it an indirect benefit.
Location, within reason, is meaningless. Does location help attendance? No. Look at the numerous schools in major cities which struggle with attendance compared to their peers:
-UTSA (7th biggest city in the country in a football-crazed state)
-Vandy (28,000 people with an SEC schedule while in Nashville)
-UTEP (700,000 city population with no professional sports yet average 14,000 fans)
-Tulsa (not a major city but one with 400,000 people at a school which averages 17,000 fans per game)
-Tulane (18,000 people in New Orleans)
-Texas State (25 minutes from a city with 1 million people, 45 minutes from a city with 1.6 million people, a bunch of other decent cities closer than those and average only 13,000 fans even though the enrollment is nearly 40,000)
-TCU (17th largest city in the U.S., 800,000 population, and 20 minutes from another city with 1.4 million people yet average only 42,000 fans with a Big 12 schedule)
-USF
-SMU (19,000 fans in a city with 1.4 million)
-Rice (20,000 fans in a top 5 U.S. city)
-Buffalo
-Charlotte
-Cincinnati
-FIU
-FAU
-Georgia State
-Houston
All of those schools are in very populated areas but get poor attendance. So location isn't a big factor in attendance. And that works in reverse, as areas with much smaller populations (State College, Auburn, Clemson, Blacksburg) have some of the best attendance numbers.
Does location help with recruiting? No, not within reason. Is a kid from Atlanta going to New Mexico State over Georgia Southern? No. But that isn't within reason. Location helps in instances where you're a few hours away from a kid compared with the other school being across the country. But most kids aren't deciding on a school based on one being a few hours longer of a drive. Within reason, location doesn't play a major factor. In fact, I'd be willing to say that the overwhelming majority of FBS players, especially if they are from urban areas, would rather go hours away from home instead of staying local.
So ODU being in Norfolk isn't going to help them get the Tidewater kids. Most kids don't want to go to college ten miles from their high school. And as I discussed, most kids aren't choosing a school based on one being two hours closer than another school, so ODU doesn't have any advantage getting DC kids over a school two hours farther away, like Marshall.
I'm not sure what you think ODU has that makes you surprised they aren't better. Marshall has far superior facilities, far superior history, far superior fan support, superior recruiting advantages, and averages one more conference win per year. Would Marshall welcome a bigger enrollment to match ODU's? Sure. But other than that, I don't see any advantages ODU has that would make you expect them to be better on the field.
Fact is they got their and we haven’t. Hardly anyone other than a top 10 team fills their stadium. We don’t come close. That sucks but it is what it is.
WMU has tanked because their coach was hired by Minnesota.
Great retort. ODU has been playing FBS ball since 2014, average one fewer conference win per year than Marshall in that time, have had far inferior facilities/history, yet you expect them to have done far more. Brilliant.
Yags,
You can't honestly say ODU has underachieved since they have been in 'the worst conference in college football.'
You’re right - I can’t say that they’ve underachieved, because they haven’t underachieved. Do you even know what you’re saying?
ODU has gone 30-31 since moving up to FBS. They have no FBS history, inferior facilities, and one of the smallest coaching budgets in the conference. Any team that makes the jump from FCS, especially after only being around for four years or so at that level, is expected to take their lumps in FBS. They’ve basically played .500 ball since moving up, which is far from underachieving.
Compared to...maybe App State? Who went FBS in 2014 and has dominated their conference with less of what ODU has?
Marshall back in the day, dominated the MAC...and MU didn't have the money nor anything close to what ODU has.
FCS schools have been able to achieve more success than ODU and with, seemingly, less money and resources.
So you hand-select two teams that had immediate success while ignoring all of the others who didn't? But hey, let's play that game. Let's look at the record for the first five years of every team that has jumped from FCS to FBS since you noted (Marshall's jump) and see how they compare to ODU:
Appalachian State: 48-16
Buffalo: 7-50
Charlotte: 14-37
Coastal Carolina: 10-17
FAU: 31-30
FIU: 14-43
GA Southern: 35-27
Georgia State: 17-44
Liberty: 7-8
MTSU: 25-32
South Alabama: 25-38
South Florida: 35-20
Texas State: 22-38
Troy: 28-30
UAB: 26-29
UConn: 23-32
UMass: 10-50
UTSA: 28-33
WKU: 18-42
So since Marshall moved up in 1997, there have been 19 schools (excluding ODU) that have made the jump from FCS to FBS. Of those 19, only four have had a better record (one of which was just by one game). That means 15 have had a worse record than ODU in their first five years of moving up.
In other words, of the 20 teams that have moved up from FCS to FBS since Marshall, ODU would be 5th out of 20 for best record over the first five years (some teams like Charlotte and CCU don't have a full five years yet, but they'd have to have some spectacular years over the next two to even get close to ODU's record).
Now, let's look at the schools that had a better record over their first five years:
Georgia Southern: had been playing FCS football for 30+ years before their jump
App State: had been playing FCS football for 30+ years before their jump
ODU: had been playing FCS for 5 years before their jump
That means ODU has a better record than 15 of the 19 schools who have made the jump. Of the four who have a better record than ODU, one of them is only a difference of one game and two of them had a huge advantage by playing FCS for 25+ years longer in order to establish a foundation of a program.
By no means has ODU underachieved. Going 30-31 in your first five years after a jump from FCS to FBS is far better than the majority of teams do.
Well, at least with a Southern/Mid-Atlantic influence, we'd get some regional recognition, instead of being secondary to just Michigan and THE Ohio State University. How many kids do we recruit from Michigan, Indiana & Illinois?
AAC envy, while wrong, is understandable. MAC envy, on the other hand, is hard to figure. Anybody who takes even a few minutes to look at what the MAC is (empty stadiums, indifferent students, 50 member booster clubs, 90% subsidy rates, ESPN dictated weekday games with zero live gate and TV ratings less than ESPN can get with a 30 4 30 rerun) wants no part of it.
In any event, the next great realignment is coming. As with the last it will start at the top (probably Texas and Oklahoma dumping the Little 8) and trickle down. As it relates to the G5, IMHO:
- MAC: When the ESPN contract, which they got in a very different era in terms of sports media, runs out, they are not getting anything similar. Some schools are willing to continue to soak the students and taxpayers to subsidize "big time" football. Some are not and will move down.
- CUSA & SBC. Yeah, anybody with a map can figure out remixes that make sense. You can do the same with the SEC and ACC. Neither are going to happen. It is what it is. The discussions of "media markets" is laughable. There is a huge difference between being IN and SIGNIFICANT IN a place. Fact is nobody in Tidewater, Virginia cares a whit about ODU, nobody in Charlotte cares about UNCC, etc. (and, of course, the same can be said about every member of the AAC).
- Liberty and BYU. CUSA should add LU yesterday. 1000s of RICH students, followed by its co-religionists on a non-alumni basis, rolling in cash. Same for BYU and the MWC.
In any event, the next great realignment is coming. As with the last it will start at the top (probably Texas and Oklahoma dumping the Little 8) and trickle down. As it relates to the G5, IMHO:
- MAC: When the ESPN contract, which they got in a very different era in terms of sports media, runs out, they are not getting anything similar. Some schools are willing to continue to soak the students and taxpayers to subsidize "big time" football. Some are not and will move down.
- CUSA & SBC. Yeah, anybody with a map can figure out remixes that make sense. You can do the same with the SEC and ACC. Neither are going to happen. It is what it is. The discussions of "media markets" is laughable. There is a huge difference between being IN and SIGNIFICANT IN a place. Fact is nobody in Tidewater, Virginia cares a whit about ODU, nobody in Charlotte cares about UNCC, etc. (and, of course, the same can be said about every member of the AAC).
- Liberty and BYU. CUSA should add LU yesterday. 1000s of RICH students, followed by its co-religionists on a non-alumni basis, rolling in cash. Same for BYU and the MWC.
1- You say when the ESPN contract for the MAC runs out, they won't get something similar. I disagree. There are people who watch MACtion on the weekdays. It may not be ideal for local fans to attend, but it sure as hell is better for the conference than your choice of streaming a game via facebook or fire stick. Get a clue
2- "empty stadiums" in the MAC.... well thank God CUSA is full at all their games..
3- You do realize BYU is a different animal right? Teams that have their own networks are slightly more valuable than Liberty
You need to take off your Marshall blinders and be realistic. But then again, I have seen people tell you that 100 times and you just sit with your thumb up your ass and type with the other hand.
Have you bothered to look at the CUSA attendance figures? Our conference figures dwarf those of the MAC.
C-USA vs. C-USA games averaged 18,000 fans last year.
MAC vs. MAC games averaged 15,000 fans last year.
Considering the differences in market size and the habit of MAC games being scheduled on Tuesday - Thursday nights as opposed to Friday nights/Saturday, I don’t see any dwarfing.
Similar threads
