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BTN: 5 Things Dienhart Learned at Purdue Practice

Mike Gwinn

I'd rather be fishing.
Feb 26, 2002
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5 things Tom Dienhart learned at Purdue football practice
  • By Tom Dienhart, BTN.com Senior Writer - 13 hours ago
The BTN bus tour continues the trek through Big Ten country. On Wednesday, we reached our 14th and final stop at West Lafayette, Indiana.

Our crew got the chance to watch the Boilermakers practice on Wednesday.

Here are five things I learned after watching the practice...

LINK
 
Good write up. Their O line may give us fits. Birdsong will have to be sharp right out of the gate and that will be tough in his first live action in two years. They'll try to stop the run and make him throw. Their CB's will man up forcing him to find other targets.

I look for this to be a low scoring game due to new faces on both sides for both teams. Not a lock for sure.
 
I dunno, I assume we probably will run it with short passing routes etc until they get a good feel for what Purdue will be doing. If they want to jam 7 or 8 in the box and leave man on man on the outside, let them. They may have two good corners, but there will be 2 or 3 other guys running routes besides the two receivers they are covering. I do think that the score of this game will hinge somewhat on Birdsong but Purdue may have issues stopping the run if last year is of any comparison and the QB that played 7 games for them threw almost as many picks as he did touchdowns. Either way, if we can run, we win, if we cant run until Birdsong opens the defense up it could go either way. But in all seriousness, I don't think that guy wrote a doomsday piece for any of the teams in the B1G, including Indiana.
 
I dunno, I assume we probably will run it with short passing routes etc until they get a good feel for what Purdue will be doing. If they want to jam 7 or 8 in the box and leave man on man on the outside, let them. They may have two good corners, but there will be 2 or 3 other guys running routes besides the two receivers they are covering. I do think that the score of this game will hinge somewhat on Birdsong but Purdue may have issues stopping the run if last year is of any comparison and the QB that played 7 games for them threw almost as many picks as he did touchdowns. Either way, if we can run, we win, if we cant run until Birdsong opens the defense up it could go either way. But in all seriousness, I don't think that guy wrote a doomsday piece for any of the teams in the B1G, including Indiana.
Appleby, the QB, had difficulty late in the year with interceptions. Part of the reason was that Purdue's O-line, particularly the OTs, broke down. The left tackle, Hedelin, wore down in his first year of D1 football (he was a JUCO) and the RT, Prince, had been banged up and his replacement, Cermin, also was banged up. They both needed surgery during the off season. Cermin came back quicker so it was nice to see Prince is now back running with the #1's. In addition, Purdue redshirted Patterson who could be one of the better OGs as a R-Frosh.

Purdue should be better against the run this season in real terms if for no other reason than 5 of the front 7 are back, in better shape and a year older. In terms of statistical performance, they probably weren't as bad as they appeared last season since they had to face as many top backs as they did. Gordon-WI, Abdullah-NE, Langford-MSU, Cobbs-MN & Coleman-IU rushed for nearly 10,000 combined yards last season (not all against Purdue. vbg).
 
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I'll be interested to see how our D-Line matches up with their O-line considering our losses there. Also excited to see Deon-Tay McManus(6'1" 228lbs) match-up with Anthony Brown(5'11" 190lbs).
 
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Appleby took over as starter for the final 7 games. They averaged 36 ppg in his first 3 starts (including Mich St) but only 15 ppg in his last 4 starts (including NW and Indiana).
 
I'll be interested to see how our D-Line matches up with their O-line considering our losses there. Also excited to see Deon-Tay McManus(6'1" 228lbs) match-up with Anthony Brown(5'11" 190lbs).


I don' think we'll win many of those battles. Both O lines will dominate the opponents DL. JMO.
 
I'll be interested to see how our D-Line matches up with their O-line considering our losses there. Also excited to see Deon-Tay McManus(6'1" 228lbs) match-up with Anthony Brown(5'11" 190lbs).
Purdue (and Brown) faced a number of bigger receivers last year and wasn't hurt too much by them. With the young LB corps, they had more trouble with running backs catching passes out of the backfield. While Purdue's national rank of Total Defense was pretty poor (80th), their Pass Efficiency Defense ranking was a much better 53rd. Just pure Passing Yards allowed wasn't bad at 55th.

McManus is a bit of a curiosity to me. A 4* recruit out of HS in 2012 he had offers from just about everyone; apparently went to Prep School (grades, I assume); committed to WVA then flipped over to Marshall. Redshirted as a freshman, he would have been the equivalent of a Junior last year and didn't catch a ball in the first four games but averaged just over 1.86 catches per game for the season. To further complicate things, the NCAA official stat site has him listed as a TE (which I don't think is accurate). Is he an "H" back or ??? A star waiting to emerge or …???
 
McManus was actually a TE to start with us. Didn't see the field early last year because of so much depth at TE and WR.

He eventually switched to WR and even though the stats weren't huge, I'd day he's already emerged. He has a freakish combination of size and speed and caught both touchdowns in the C-USA title game.

He's solidified himself as the #1 WR on the team and I think he has the ability to be the best WR in school history not named Moss.
 
McManus was actually a TE to start with us. Didn't see the field early last year because of so much depth at TE and WR.

He eventually switched to WR and even though the stats weren't huge, I'd day he's already emerged. He has a freakish combination of size and speed and caught both touchdowns in the C-USA title game.

He's solidified himself as the #1 WR on the team and I think he has the ability to be the best WR in school history not named Moss.
Interesting, I would have thought Foster would take over as the #1 receiver replacing Shuler. Why would the coaches have had McManus start as a TE?
 
Last year, we had Shuler, Allen, Wilkins, AJL, and Foster all at receiver. Frohnapfel (drafted by SD) and Yuracek were at TE. So a freshman like McManus had to prove himself. I'd say he started out at TE mainly because of his size. Even when you look at his highlight reel grabs, his body looks too big to be a WR although he has the speed to burn DB's and the hands to make great catches.

Shuler caught 19 passes against you guys in 2012 and was one of our best of all time, but he was a smaller slot guy, as is Foster. We've also heard Foster is in danger of losing that starting job. McManus has turned into an outside threat you have to worry about on the deep ball. With the loss of AJL, he is without a doubt the go-to home run hitter.
 
Last year, we had Shuler, Allen, Wilkins, AJL, and Foster all at receiver. Frohnapfel (drafted by SD) and Yuracek were at TE. So a freshman like McManus had to prove himself. I'd say he started out at TE mainly because of his size. Even when you look at his highlight reel grabs, his body looks too big to be a WR although he has the speed to burn DB's and the hands to make great catches.

Shuler caught 19 passes against you guys in 2012 and was one of our best of all time, but he was a smaller slot guy, as is Foster. We've also heard Foster is in danger of losing that starting job. McManus has turned into an outside threat you have to worry about on the deep ball. With the loss of AJL, he is without a doubt the go-to home run hitter.
Thanks for the background info. Obviously someone Purdue's defense will have to pay attention to.

Just noticed he was ranked #4 in MD coming out of HS. Purdue's starting NG was listed just below him at #7.
 
McManus is more of a possession receiver but he does have good speed. Davonte Allen, on the other side, is 6'2" 200 lbs, but is the burner. We have all been waiting on Allen to have that breakout season but he has been hampered by injuries during his career. Hopefully he can stay healthy this season.

The X factor is going to be the slot position. If Foster starts, he is of the Tommy Shuler mold. If it's Knight, then he brings a different set of capabilities at 6'1 193lbs.

We haven't been a threat much at all to throw to our RBs but we do utilize the TE. SO TE Ryan Yuracheck(6'3" 233lbs) and JR Emmanuel Byrd(6'3" 229lbs) are both athletic pass catchers.
 
Appleby, the QB, had difficulty late in the year with interceptions. Part of the reason was that Purdue's O-line, particularly the OTs, broke down. The left tackle, Hedelin, wore down in his first year of D1 football (he was a JUCO) and the RT, Prince, had been banged up and his replacement, Cermin, also was banged up. They both needed surgery during the off season. Cermin came back quicker so it was nice to see Prince is now back running with the #1's. In addition, Purdue redshirted Patterson who could be one of the better OGs as a R-Frosh.

Purdue should be better against the run this season in real terms if for no other reason than 5 of the front 7 are back, in better shape and a year older. In terms of statistical performance, they probably weren't as bad as they appeared last season since they had to face as many top backs as they did. Gordon-WI, Abdullah-NE, Langford-MSU, Cobbs-MN & Coleman-IU rushed for nearly 10,000 combined yards last season (not all against Purdue. vbg).

I agree, you did go against some good backs last year to skew the numbers, only thing is we feel our back is in the same discussion and your defense should be better with experience, but sometimes its not the kids fault, as we have seen on our side of this, it was the DC that was the problem for us. Both Olines are looking good, I do feel who rushes the ball the best is going to have the upper hand in this game and both QB's have a lot to prove. I believe we have the better receivers but who knows if that will have an effect if the QB has a playbook that is very dumbed down
 
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We've had our share of problems against big WRs (Lippett, 130 yds, MSU) as well as smaller speedy WRs (Dudek, 200 yds, ILL). Our solution was always to pressure and affect the QB. We never actually sacked Cook, but did affect him causing him to fall away from his throws, have happy feet, and resulting in some errant throws including a pick-6. We did get to Lunt several times. Eventually, he was pulled on favor of O'toole for various reasons. Our pass rush is a veritable unknown and looks like your oline is a strength this year.

I'm actually thinking we may have some success in the air against your secondary given our WR depth and Marshalls lack of a pass rush (so far). I think our rushing attack will also be successful.

It all comes down to stopping the herd offense. This will be a big test for the Boilers and a great game to watch.
 
We've had our share of problems against big WRs (Lippett, 130 yds, MSU) as well as smaller speedy WRs (Dudek, 200 yds, ILL). Our solution was always to pressure and affect the QB. We never actually sacked Cook, but did affect him causing him to fall away from his throws, have happy feet, and resulting in some errant throws including a pick-6. We did get to Lunt several times. Eventually, he was pulled on favor of O'toole for various reasons. Our pass rush is a veritable unknown and looks like your oline is a strength this year.

I'm actually thinking we may have some success in the air against your secondary given our WR depth and Marshalls lack of a pass rush (so far). I think our rushing attack will also be successful.

It all comes down to stopping the herd offense. This will be a big test for the Boilers and a great game to watch.
Not being a smart ass, but based on what? We had several starters along the d line that was out for the open scrimmage, a good portion on the ends. We don't know how good our ends will be until we see them at game time, a few have a good amount of experience, they are not scrubs. Your rushing attack will have a harder time than your passing attack, that is something we are actually pretty decent at, middle of the line should be ok and linebackers are not newbies. The ends, well again, will have to prove themselves even though they have experience, just not star power till proven. We did lose a very good db in Roberts, and I will not say we will be the same without him but who we do have has plenty of experience and very proven. Roberts may very well be one of the better lock down corners to come out of Marshall.

I think sometimes we look at the other teams and say "well they lost 4 starters out of the front 7, no way can they be any good now", in reality with how much they rotate, the 2 deep tends to be the same talent wise, with most the questions on the backups to the previous years back ups. Offensively I don't think we will miss too much but Cato was Cato, hopefully Birdsong and Appleby both can settle in a bit this year with strong Olines. Here's to a good game and those who make it to Huntington, you will not find a more hospital place with good people.....mostly.
 
Not being a smart ass, but based on what? We had several starters along the d line that was out for the open scrimmage, a good portion on the ends. We don't know how good our ends will be until we see them at game time, a few have a good amount of experience, they are not scrubs. Your rushing attack will have a harder time than your passing attack, that is something we are actually pretty decent at, middle of the line should be ok and linebackers are not newbies. The ends, well again, will have to prove themselves even though they have experience, just not star power till proven. We did lose a very good db in Roberts, and I will not say we will be the same without him but who we do have has plenty of experience and very proven. Roberts may very well be one of the better lock down corners to come out of Marshall.

I think sometimes we look at the other teams and say "well they lost 4 starters out of the front 7, no way can they be any good now", in reality with how much they rotate, the 2 deep tends to be the same talent wise, with most the questions on the backups to the previous years back ups. Offensively I don't think we will miss too much but Cato was Cato, hopefully Birdsong and Appleby both can settle in a bit this year with strong Olines. Here's to a good game and those who make it to Huntington, you will not find a more hospital place with good people.....mostly.
In regards to the Herd pass rush, I'm going by info provided in the HN Roundtable and from Doug Smock. Both sources question the pass rush, and i dont think they noted starters out of the dline. We've got a good oline too and we'll earn our success on the ground as well as in tge air. Offensively you will be really good, i have no doubt about it. Legg calls a good game and your WR are as talented as proven as anyone. It will be a good matchup and should be a fun game to watch.
 
Not being a smart ass, but based on what? We had several starters along the d line that was out for the open scrimmage, a good portion on the ends. We don't know how good our ends will be until we see them at game time, a few have a good amount of experience, they are not scrubs. Your rushing attack will have a harder time than your passing attack, that is something we are actually pretty decent at, middle of the line should be ok and linebackers are not newbies. The ends, well again, will have to prove themselves even though they have experience, just not star power till proven. We did lose a very good db in Roberts, and I will not say we will be the same without him but who we do have has plenty of experience and very proven. Roberts may very well be one of the better lock down corners to come out of Marshall.

I think sometimes we look at the other teams and say "well they lost 4 starters out of the front 7, no way can they be any good now", in reality with how much they rotate, the 2 deep tends to be the same talent wise, with most the questions on the backups to the previous years back ups. Offensively I don't think we will miss too much but Cato was Cato, hopefully Birdsong and Appleby both can settle in a bit this year with strong Olines. Here's to a good game and those who make it to Huntington, you will not find a more hospital place with good people.....mostly.
I'd probably argue the other way and believe Purdue would (should) have the ability to move the ball on the ground.

First off, there are 3 new starters along the D-Line and, as you mentioned, they did play a fare amount last season as reserves and they might be close in talent but still, there's a reason they weren't the starters last year. Marshall's projected D-line this year represented the #12, 13th, 14th and 21st tacklers from last season. If they were rotating in that much and equally split time, you might expect them to have a little higher numbers. Also, they'll face a Purdue line that should outweigh them by about 32 lbs per man. Purdue's O-line will be similar in terms of size and experience to the Northern Illinois line Marshall faced in last season's bowl game. In that game, UNI's top two running backs averaged over 5 yards per carry.

Marshall also technically returns one starter from last year at LB. McKelvey is also coming off of his surgery year. They too are probably considered a bit undersized and while I'm confident they make up for their size with their speed and quickness, the lack of size can wear a player down over the course of a game. The projected starters represent the #4 and #16 tacklers from last season with McKelvey not playing.

Last season, Marshall's ability to defend the run might be a bit skewed. They ended up ranked 53rd in the nation in rushing defense, which is good but just slightly above average (62.5). However, when you look at the teams they faced, their opponents were below average collectively in running the ball. The best team they faced was UNI at #16 in Rush Offense, from there they faced MTSU (#30) and UAB (#31) but it really dropped off after that. The average Rushing Offense rank for their opponents came in at 71.33.

Now you could compare that to Purdue's Rushing Defense which statistically wasn't as good (Ranked 91st) but the average of Purdue's opponents Rushing Offense rank was 49.55. In fact, Purdue held 8 of their 12 opponents to below or right at their season rushing averages. They just happened to face a lot of good rushing teams.

A second reason why Marshall's Rushing Defense might have looked better was Marshall's offense. As prolific and as sudden as Marshall was in scoring the ball, other teams generally had to abandon the run and become one-dimensional in their offense. I haven't charted all of the games however my suspicion is that teams probably had some success running the ball early in the game and then went away from that as the game progressed.

The third reason, and one which dovetails into the above point, is that with opposing teams having to pass more, it allowed Marshall's defense to really key in with their pass rush and generate a good number of sacks. Of course, unlike the NFL where sack yards are taken away from Pass Yards, the NCAA counts them as rushes, thereby reducing the yardage allowed total for the game. If you'd add back in the 254 yards Marshall got from their 38 sacks, their Rush Defensive rank would drop from 53rd to 78th last season.

So really the key for Purdue will be to establish the run and keep Marshall's offense off the field. Simple. vbg

Anyway, only 8 more days and we can do away with all of the speculation and see what happens on the field.
 
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I can't wait to beat that ass and for these guys to get out of here with this junk. It's fine to be optimistic I guess but this will be no less than a 17 pt Herd victory. Devon Johnson will pound that D early on and then MB and the receivers will shred it up. Anything less than 44-27 I'll be disappointed. I personally think it will be more like 48-17. Just my opinion though.
 
I can't wait to beat that ass and for these guys to get out of here with this junk. It's fine to be optimistic I guess but this will be no less than a 17 pt Herd victory. Devon Johnson will pound that D early on and then MB and the receivers will shred it up. Anything less than 44-27 I'll be disappointed. I personally think it will be more like 48-17. Just my opinion though.
Well, I must say it's hard to argue against that logic.
 
Let's drrive a stern wheel and stay in our lane. Purdue is that super big kid in school that's reserved and to himself. Really don't wann f@"k with him cause you don't know what the outcome will be, however we also know were not taking an ass whoopin from anyone.
 
I can't wait to beat that ass and for these guys to get out of here with this junk. It's fine to be optimistic I guess but this will be no less than a 17 pt Herd victory. Devon Johnson will pound that D early on and then MB and the receivers will shred it up. Anything less than 44-27 I'll be disappointed. I personally think it will be more like 48-17. Just my opinion though.
Dude, do not be rude. These guys have been great. They are not talking smack. They are here having a good football conversation. I have enjoyed reading their insight.
 
I will say that I have really enjoyed the friendly back and forth. Marshall has some great fans! Marshall is a great program, I hope for a great game. Purdue does need a strong showing as they are trying to build a consistent winner. This kind of talk between boards is great and I wish Marshall another great season, but I love me some Boilers.
 
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