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Buying furniture

GK4Herd

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Aug 5, 2001
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So...my wife and I decided to replace our living room furniture and the few weeks prior to Christmas we would go into various furniture stores in the area. I have a personal routine I use when buying things like this. I spend a lot of time just browsing various stores and researching online before I make a decision. So my early visits to these stores are more browsing. I’m not an impulsive buyer. So there’s a period of time when a salesperson approaches me that I am very honest...I tell them I’m just exploring and I’m not ready to buy.

Most sales people honor that and just tell me if I have any questions just ask. But not the sales people at Lazy Boy. In the two times I went into the store I made it clear that I was just looking, but my wife and I were hounded the entire time we were there. No matter how many times I said we were just looking, if I stopped at a couch or sat in a chair on the showroom floor the salesperson (first visit a man, second a woman) would swoop in and begin their sales pitch. It was irritating to say the least.

Now I’ve been in sales. I understand the culture and pressure that comes in many sales environments. But for the life of me this completely turned me off. I may very well have purchased something there, but I ended up buying elsewhere because I was so turned off by the experience. Is that normal in the furniture business or just a part of the Lazy Boy culture? I’ve grown to expect it at car dealerships, but I wasn’t expecting that experience trying to buy living room furniture.
 
You're just turning into an old codger.

Probably yell at kids to get off your lawn too?

The worst experience I had was at a dealership once. I never even took a test drive, but was wanting to know more about a new model. I thought I was going to have to walk back to wherever he had my driver's license and steal it back, just so I could leave. The salesman pressured me into going ahead and letting him copy that and leave my keys, just in case I changed my mind and wanted to test drive the car. When I was about to lose my shit, he said, "ok, just give me a second so I can explain to my manager..." I then could overhear him telling the guy he tried everything and I'm just not interested. I left feeling sorry for the sales guy that he had such an aggressive boss.
 
You're just turning into an old codger.

Probably yell at kids to get off your lawn too?

The worst experience I had was at a dealership once. I never even took a test drive, but was wanting to know more about a new model. I thought I was going to have to walk back to wherever he had my driver's license and steal it back, just so I could leave. The salesman pressured me into going ahead and letting him copy that and leave my keys, just in case I changed my mind and wanted to test drive the car. When I was about to lose my shit, he said, "ok, just give me a second so I can explain to my manager..." I then could overhear him telling the guy he tried everything and I'm just not interested. I left feeling sorry for the sales guy that he had such an aggressive boss.

Toxic sales environments are way too common. I can't imagine any environment like that being long term successful.

And nah...kids are welcome on my lawn.
 
You're just turning into an old codger.

Probably yell at kids to get off your lawn too?

The worst experience I had was at a dealership once. I never even took a test drive, but was wanting to know more about a new model. I thought I was going to have to walk back to wherever he had my driver's license and steal it back, just so I could leave. The salesman pressured me into going ahead and letting him copy that and leave my keys, just in case I changed my mind and wanted to test drive the car. When I was about to lose my shit, he said, "ok, just give me a second so I can explain to my manager..." I then could overhear him telling the guy he tried everything and I'm just not interested. I left feeling sorry for the sales guy that he had such an aggressive boss.

By any chance was this a Kia dealership? In my experience they are the absolute worst about that exact trick. And fvck no you cannot have my keys, unless we agree I am going to trade in...which I rarely have done.

When it comes to buying a car, I am either the easiest person to deal with or the hardest asshole on Earth. It's their choice. Don't play games with me, I know all of them. And the internet has changed everything, you can check dozens of dealers, get their best price, and there is no need to haggle on site with anyone. But some will still try, especially the fvcking F&I guy, who is already pissed I have cash or my own financing.

And yeah, I feel sorry for salespersons working in such atmospheres. Long term it is not a good strategy, they burn through salespersons like firewood in a cold winter, but there are enough dummies and suckers for it to be profitable.
 
Is that normal in the furniture business or just a part of the Lazy Boy culture? I’ve grown to expect it at car dealerships, but I wasn’t expecting that experience trying to buy living room furniture.

That kind of atmosphere annoys me and makes me uncomfortable. I have not ran into it in furniture stores, so maybe Lazy Boy just has a hard-core culture.
 
Toxic sales environments are way too common. I can't imagine any environment like that being long term successful.
Anytime I walk in a store where I suspect they work on commission, I expect them to introduce themselves and give their sales pitch - after that I always ask for a card. You may have no intention of purchasing from them (although if they spend the time to help, it's good karma) but I've found that it generally signals to other salespeople to back off.
 
Anytime I walk in a store where I suspect they work on commission, I expect them to introduce themselves and give their sales pitch - after that I always ask for a card. You may have no intention of purchasing from them (although if they spend the time to help, it's good karma) but I've found that it generally signals to other salespeople to back off.


I’ve done the same with a business card. I never begrudge an introduction. In fact, if I have a good experience and the sales person honors my request to allow me to just look with no pressure, I’ll make sure if I do decide to buy from that store or dealership that I buy from the rep that made the initial contact. I just have a process that I go through when I buy something. I look at numerous places and gather information. But when I am ready to buy I go buy. My mind is made up.

As far as car dealerships are concerned, the age of the internet has changed the process. It is increasingly more difficult to fleece individuals on cost. Sites like TruCar allows you to get multiple bids from different dealers before you leave the house and gives you a point of leverage to work between dealerships. The real ripoff comes in the financing and warranty and service packages they push after you’ve decided to buy. That’s where the “commission “ is made. I’ve helped my youngest two daughters buy their cars in the last few years. The real work is in the finance office where the finance guy tries to convince you to add on a million different things. They only quote monthly payments and try to hide the cost by extending the months of financing. Nope.
 
The real ripoff comes in the financing and warranty and service packages they push after you’ve decided to buy. That’s where the “commission “ is made. I’ve helped my youngest two daughters buy their cars in the last few years. The real work is in the finance office where the finance guy tries to convince you to add on a million different things. They only quote monthly payments and try to hide the cost by extending the months of financing. Nope.
I love how they also do it after it took them two hours to print off your paperwork. Next time I buy a car, I am thinking about giving them one opportunity to process the paper work after they pitch the extended warranty, if they decide to continue pushing the warranty, I will waste the same amount of their time by asking every single question imaginable about the coverage the various packages offer.
 
The real ripoff comes in the financing and warranty and service packages they push after you’ve decided to buy. That’s where the “commission “ is made. I’ve helped my youngest two daughters buy their cars in the last few years. The real work is in the finance office where the finance guy tries to convince you to add on a million different things. They only quote monthly payments and try to hide the cost by extending the months of financing. Nope.

The F&I guy....they will put the screws to you.
 
The F&I guy....they will put the screws to you.


The first place that I went to buy the Maserati . . . I ended up leaving because of the finance situation.

I was given a really low rate (1.85%) by a local credit union. This credit union happens to lead the state in car loans and is second in home mortgage loans. In other words, it's a huge loaner that any car merchant is aware of.

The first Maserati I wanted was at a dealership in Dallas. After test driving, having the issues found with it fixed, etc., their sales guy told me that they didn't work with my particular credit union. When I asked why, I was told it's because it takes them too long to get the money to the dealership. Then, I spoke to the finance guy. He confirmed that they didn't work with that credit union, but said he had really competitive rates for his in-house financing (which weren't competitive at all). When I questioned why they didn't work with the state's biggest credit union, he told me it was because the credit union wanted them to fill out a huge packet of information that he didn't have the time or need to do. I then contacted my credit union's loan department at their corporate office to get their take. They told me that their "preferred dealership" paperwork, which only is two pages long, is very easy and fast to complete. Further, that car dealership had already completed all of the paperwork, so they didn't have any more work to do.

I then contacted the finance guy with that info. He went on to explain that their dealership sells X amount of cars per week, almost all of them online, so they don't have to work with a credit union or bank if it's too much work for them. I then called out the sales person for telling me the reason was that the credit union took too much time to get the dealership the money. The credit union told me that was impossible- banking requirements make sure the money is sent within a certain time, so at most, it would be an extra 24 hours longer the dealership would receive their money compared with any other bank.

Regardless of the contrasting reasons the dealership tried telling me, the credit union quickly shot it down. It was simply the case of the finance guy thinking I wanted the car so much that I would pay an additional 1.05% financing through them so that they could make more money.
 
The F&I guy....they will put the screws to you.

The last new car we purchased was just a couple years ago. Wouldn't have done brand new, but this was a helluva deal. Anyways, this dickhead who puts the final paperwork together started his song and dance with trying to scare me into buying an additional warranty. I told that motherfvker no at least 20 times before he dropped it and moved on. He even plopped an ECU on his desk that he keeps in a drawer and said, "this isn't normal wear and tear and it's also not covered under warranty..." Then he proceeded to state the cost. I told him "if the damn ECU went bad, I would expect it to be covered in some manner by the dealer or you'll be buying the piece of shit back based on the lemon law...now let's proceed so I can get the hell out of here."
 
Trade ins are another way to hide cost as well. I started telling the sales person up front that I didn’t have a trade in and make them quote me terms. Then I tell them I have a trade in after all. This creates a ton of dissonance because now they have to now state the real value they will give for your car or restate their terms. I had a finance guy once tell me I could get more for my car if I accepted different (higher) financing. What? How does the financing I choose alter the value of my trade in?

I buy Toyotas and almost always get 0%. Of course the cost is built into the price of the vehicle when they offer you the lower financing. The bottom line is none of this would be an issue if you could order directly from the factory. I read that the dealership lobby pays more money through donations to various political groups than the automakers themselves. This is why most states do not allow manufacturers to cut out the dealers. That causes a 30% bump in pricing going on memory.
 
I buy Toyotas and almost always get 0%. Of course the cost is built into the price of the vehicle when they offer you the lower financing. The bottom line is none of this would be an issue if you could order directly from the factory. I read that the dealership lobby pays more money through donations to various political groups than the automakers themselves. This is why most states do not allow manufacturers to cut out the dealers. That causes a 30% bump in pricing going on memory.

That has been a big legal battle in Texas. I believe it is illegal in six states to have a company owned (manufacturer) sell directly to consumers. Elon Musk tried doing that over the last decade as part of his original plan.

Since Tesla is both the manufacturer and seller of Teslas, they aren't able to sell in Texas as they do elsewhere. It's been a battle they have been fighting for years, as Texas is one of those few states that don't allow it.
 
The last new car we purchased was just a couple years ago. Wouldn't have done brand new, but this was a helluva deal. Anyways, this dickhead who puts the final paperwork together started his song and dance with trying to scare me into buying an additional warranty. I told that motherfvker no at least 20 times before he dropped it and moved on. He even plopped an ECU on his desk that he keeps in a drawer and said, "this isn't normal wear and tear and it's also not covered under warranty..." Then he proceeded to state the cost. I told him "if the damn ECU went bad, I would expect it to be covered in some manner by the dealer or you'll be buying the piece of shit back based on the lemon law...now let's proceed so I can get the hell out of here."

The ECU not covered by the warranty? What a liar! I would have walked out on general principle.

I tell these guys upfront, "If it isn't free, I don't want it. If you have to give me your pitch go ahead and do it, but I'll just be saying no." Of course they still give you the pitch.

When my girlfriend bought her new Jeep last year, I handled most of the crap for her (researched rebates, checked inventories, played the dealers against each other, etc.) so I went with her to finalize the sale on the one she wanted. I decided to be a prick with the F&I WOMAN (that's rare!). It was kind of a weird deal anyways, she just finalized her divorce and wanted to build some credit in her name only, she only financed $5k of the price and just wrote a check for the balance, so they were not making shit off the finance end. This broad is trying to sell us every warranty and service under the moon, for the extra $x per payment. So I had her give the actual total price of each offer (which she dutifully provided, God bless her), and rebuttaled her each time: "Don't you think that's pretty high when Carmax offers that service plan for less?" "Does that sound as outrageous to you as it does to me?" "Are you aware the same warranty is $x directly from FCA? Goddamn, that's $500 less!" (yes, I researched it). It's all bullshit, you might as well have some fun with them. At least she had a nice rack.
 
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BUY older furniture and redo it. I have been doing a lot of that. Most of our furniture is all antiques. I'm not to get near that furniture with paint. Good hobby working on older furniture. I love working with wood.
 
BUY older furniture and redo it. I have been doing a lot of that. Most of our furniture is all antiques. I'm not to get near that furniture with paint. Good hobby working on older furniture. I love working with wood.
We do the same thing, except we don't want to refinish all of it, unless it looks bad. I've seen pictures of your hot wife showing some of the refinished furniture. If my wife don't put out today, I'm going to do my own wood work.
 
I once got approached in a furniture store by a salesman named "Dollar Bill." That is honestly what his name tag and business card said.

Anyway...as a banker and a seller of financial products and services, my approach has always been to create long term relationships with my clients. I have never and will never be pushy with our products and services, and I truly try to meet the needs of my clients while making money for the bank. I've always found that a more laid back approach, as opposed to an 'in your face' or 'pushy' approach has always bode well for me. I want my clients to get to know me, trust me, and think of me whenever they need anything banking related, regardless of whether or not it's in my direct line of work. I work very hard at fostering relationships, and I have thus far had a very successful career. I can't stand pushy people, no matter what line of work.
 
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The single most important part in selling is listening. I am always flabbergasted how many people in top positions don't understand that. It doesn't matter what you're selling - a couch, a car, financial services, a recruit on where he should go to school. The single most important thing for a salesman to do is listen.

A dozen years ago, I was a new partner in a company. I would have meetings with execs at the headquarters of big companies including Gannett/USA Today, Marriott, Mars Inc., Hilton, etc. for what would possibly be contracts for multi-years and multi-millions of dollars. The majority owner always wanted to go with me, and the meetings would quickly turn to shit as he dominated them by simply talking about our company and what we provide. Being new there, it was a tough issue to bring up, so I had to go to another partner who had been there a decade to have him run interference when I would have big meetings.

The majority owner took no time to find common ground/break the ice. He took no time to probe or ask questions as to why the company was interested in looking at a new vendor. Clearly, they took the meeting for some reason: their vendor was too expensive, wasn't fulfilling their obligation, didn't have the best technology, simply wanting to have a backup vendor in emergencies, etc. This is all pertinent information you have to discover in order to properly sell. That majority owner would simply ramble on about all of the things we provide, many times the customer's current vendor already provided or they had no interest in.

I've watched the same thing happen with coaches recruiting kids. They entirely skip the part about listening and finding out what the recruit deems most important. The coach tries being best friends with the recruit, joking with him, and then telling him about everything the school/program can offer that recruit. But all of that is meaningless if you haven't listened to what is important to the recruit - selling a kid on warm weather year round means shit if the kid loves skiing; selling the kid on the school having a huge enrollment and tons of diversity if the kid is from a small high school and is sure he wants a small campus; selling a kid on how hot the girls on campus are if he doesn't have much of a desire to date or has a serious, long-term girlfriend who is coming to school with him. I see it every damn year, multiple times, and I always question how head coaches aren't wise enough to understand this and have a course for his coaches (but many times, the head coaches are just as guilty of doing it).

1) Find a common interest/break the ice: If you're selling financial services and a guy walks in with a Marshall shirt, start talking to him about the Herd. Let him know about the last game you went to or give him some good-natured ribbing if you're a wvu fan.

2) Find out why the customer is looking for financial services. Listen to what they are looking for. Find out why they are looking. At first, most people won't completely open up about why they are looking. They have a current bank but will claim to just want to see what else is out there or if they can get a lower interest rate. In reality, it's usually far more than that. After listening and asking some probing questions, they start to open up. They will tell you about how their bank takes two days to get their direct deposit into their account. Since they get paid on Mondays, that means they don't get their money in their account until Wednesdays. Since their mortgage is automatically drafted from their account every other Wednesday, it means sometimes it is debited hours before their direct deposit hits, which means they end up getting insufficient funds fees. Even at this point, you still mostly stay quiet. Knowing the bank takes two days to get the direct deposit in the guy's account, you realize that bank probably doesn't have great technology, so you ask about their app and if they offer mobile check deposits, etc. The guy states they don't offer online check deposits, so he has to take them to the bank to deposit them. He then opens up about how one time, he put the check in the deposit slot while the bank was closed, and the check ended up getting suck in the after hours deposit box. Quickly, the guy who claimed that he was just shopping around or looking for a better interest rate has revealed some issues with his current bank.

3) At this point, you see that he has "wounds" that his bank has caused. Without making it obvious, you start to poke these wounds to make them bigger. His direct deposit takes two days to hit his account? "Ouch, that shouldn't happen like that." Show empathy by talking about how getting hit with just one insufficient fee per month due to the bank taking so long adds up to $400/year and over $7000 over a decade if he were to simply take that lost money and invest it properly (in a service you coincidentally have, which you will reveal later). Show understanding how you would be annoyed if you had to drive to/from the bank each time just to deposit a check. After a long day at work, the last thing you want to do is have to drive ten minutes in traffic to the bank, get out of your car in the cold weather, then fight traffic again to get back to where you were going. Poke the wound. The amount of time and gas going to the bank is a pain in the ass, not to mention the chance the check gets lost/stuck in the drawer. The customer will frequently then to begin more issues with his bank after you start to show empathy for his situation. You've poked the wounds enough that they are now bleeding, gaping holes.

4) At this time, you take the opportunity to tell him how much you love working at your bank, because it's such an easy job. Your bank has invested $15 million in new technology over the last two years. As a result, your system makes direct deposits available within 24 hours for the first six months of that direct deposit. Then, after that, the direct deposits are available immediately. "It's your money, why should you have to wait for it, right?" Instead of losing $400/year in insufficient funds fees, he'd do much better putting that $400 in XYZ funds. Explain that you've done that with 20% of your wife's paychecks, and it has yielded X% of returns.

Part of that technology investment also allows customers to deposit checks from the free mobile app. No more wasted trips to the bank after hours just to make a deposit. Go straight home to your family after work - don't spend 20+ minutes going to the bank just to deposit a check.

Even though you can't offer him a better interest rate than he is getting, you will still save him $400/year in insufficient funds, earn him $7000 by taking that throwaway money and investing it just like you do with your wife's money, and save him a lot of time by providing free mobile banking that his current bank doesn't have.

Even if his first priority for coming to your bank was to get a lower interest rate, you still saved him time and money without being able to fulfill his original goal.

5) Ask for his business, and tell him why starting immediately is beneficial to him ("Don't risk another insufficient fee, I can do your direct deposit paperwork right here in less than 90 seconds"; "If you sign up by the close of business tomorrow, we also have a promotion for a free $100 into your account").

1) Break the ice/build the relationship/find common ground
2) Listen and ask questions to find out why the person is really there; probe without probing
3) Use that information to be able to poke the wound
4) Come full circle by telling him how you/your company can resolve those issues for him and provide benefits that he doesn't currently get
5) Ask for his business.

It's a tried-and-true sales cycle that anyone who comes in contact with customers should be trained on.
 
Furniture shopping is for the women to do
Go pick it and I will pay for it. I am NOT going through the selection process. As long as I have a chair and a tv I don't care about anything else. When the woman has it picked out call me and I will go pay for it. Until then dont bother me with it.
 
Furniture shopping is for the women to do
Go pick it and I will pay for it. I am NOT going through the selection process. As long as I have a chair and a tv I don't care about anything else. When the woman has it picked out call me and I will go pay for it. Until then dont bother me with it.
Damned skippy Herdman. The time or two my bride got me to go into those places I served as her "reverse barometer"....screw that. Years ago, I decided to send her out and wrote the checks. It saves time, aggravation as well as a marriage.
 
Furniture shopping is for the women to do
Go pick it and I will pay for it. I am NOT going through the selection process. As long as I have a chair and a tv I don't care about anything else. When the woman has it picked out call me and I will go pay for it. Until then dont bother me with it.

This is a terrible idea, and how one ends up with a dainty couch. No way.
 
5) Ask for his business, and tell him why starting immediately is beneficial to him ("Don't risk another insufficient fee, I can do your direct deposit paperwork right here in less than 90 seconds"; "If you sign up by the close of business tomorrow, we also have a promotion for a free $100 into your account").

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You are correct that listening is 100% the key to sales. If I am buying and the salesman isn't listening, I walk out.
 
Some sales environments are just toxic. After teaching school for eight years I decided to enter the insurance business. I was hired by a man that was professional and treated people respectfully. About 8 months in my company demutualized. This totally changed the environment of the company. I was promoted to sales manager after a year and was in line to get my own agency at the time. The company sent some hand picked people out of our regional office to come into the agency. The man that hired me was demoted and this idiot from Pittsburgh came in and ran the agency like a bully. I had already accepted an offer to take an agency in Ohio (Wooster) so I was just biding my time till the company negotiated my relocation package.

I know the Glengarry Glen Ross memes seem like caricatures of a toxic sales environment but this was literally what it was like. I could tell a thousand stories. But the most satisfying thing I ever witnessed was a standing Friday sales meeting where all the agents gathered to report their numbers and if they missed the numbers would be embarrassed and ridiculed in front of the entire agency. You could triple your objective for ten straight weeks, but if you missed it once you weren’t exempt from the public stockades. Now there was this sales manager brought in by the new district manager that was literally treated like a slave. He was required to be in the office at 7am and wasn’t allowed to go home till 10 pm at night...Saturday included.

Here’s the kicker. The District Manager was building a house in Woods and Irons subdivision in Teays Valley and he lived in the apartment with the sales manager until his house was complete and he could move his family in.This guy would literally go sit in a restaurant or bar every night and couldn’t even go to his own apartment till 10 or he’d get blasted. The district manager would brag about it to everyone like it was a joke and said he was too loyal to quit.

Well...one Friday in the weekly sales meeting he wasn’t there. There was this large white board in the front of the conference room that had wood doors that closed to cover it. This is where the weekly numbers were recorded. When the meeting started the District Manager asked if anyone knew where his whipping boy was and when no one replied he shrugged his shoulders and went to open the wood doors of the white board to start the meeting. When he opened it in large letters was...If You Want Loyalty, Get a Dog...I Quit!

He turned bright red and stomped out of the meeting kicking trash cans and slammed his office door. It was one of the most uplifting things I ever experienced. I was out of there a few weeks later, but kept in contact with some guys in the agency. It set records his first year and blew up the next. He left disgraced and divorced.
 
That's classic GK. I am sales and I have heard all the mantra, always be closing, etc. Some of his cheesy enough to make you laugh and some to make you gag. When they start that shit, I just hold the phone out or just laugh internally.

One of the best one's I ever witnessed(not as good as GK's) was this sales we had that would say I want you to do this. Only takes an hour. I want you to do this and that will only take 10 mins. Do this report and it will only take you 30 mins. Update this data base, only takes an hour or two. Oh and sell more because you suck even though we had a great year according to the speech this morning.. He kept on doing that one time at a sales meeting. This seasoned crusty rep looks up over his glasses from the back of the room and says, "I added all this stuff up. To get this done is this a normal human 24 hour day or a Dave(the manager's name) Day?" The manager's face turned red as his thermometer went to about 108 internally. Snapped his pencil.

Sales has changed a lot through the years. Now the customers are more educated than ever thanks to the internet, social media, etc. Plus, the companies want all this reporting and computer work updating data bases and forecasting. And, there is no freaking escape from it ever with the cell phones, email, and texting. Just all the damn time. You can never escape it, even on vacation.
 
Technology has changed things. It can work in your favor as well. I put in a biometric time clock system with my employees and I get instant text message notification when they check in and out. It allows me to monitor employee hours instantly. I can migrate the hours to Intuit for payroll without having to drive to both locations to pick up time cards. It’s cut out some abuses as well. I have ten cameras at each location that I can view from my iPhone in real time and also playback up to 6 months. I use a document camera app to send things requiring a signature to vendors. I can take care of things and still work another job. So I agree, you’re always tethered to your work, but it can simplify things as well.
 
Technology has changed things. It can work in your favor as well. I put in a biometric time clock system with my employees and I get instant text message notification when they check in and out. It allows me to monitor employee hours instantly. I can migrate the hours to Intuit for payroll without having to drive to both locations to pick up time cards. It’s cut out some abuses as well. I have ten cameras at each location that I can view from my iPhone in real time and also playback up to 6 months. I use a document camera app to send things requiring a signature to vendors. I can take care of things and still work another job. So I agree, you’re always tethered to your work, but it can simplify things as well.

Good grief man. You have to do all that just to keep your sales reps in line? I worked in sales/marketing for about a year and that was enough for me. I had a sales tracking software that I was supposed to record all my sales calls - these were a huge waste, because our management wanted to see a topic, who you spoke to, blah, blah. I mean, that was important for your cold calls, but once you were established, sales calls were really just to drop off some kind of treat and continue trying to form a relationship with the individuals.

The thing I hated most was having someone breathing down my neck all the time. All managers loved you when you got lucky and would land a bunch of referrals, but then started accusing you of just not trying at all when you didn't maintain those numbers. The fact is, I had some months when I didn't work nearly as hard, yet my numbers were high and the total opposite during other months. I was at the mercy of the ebb and flow of the market, really.
 
The single most important part in selling is listening. I am always flabbergasted how many people in top positions don't understand that. It doesn't matter what you're selling - a couch, a car, financial services, a recruit on where he should go to school. The single most important thing for a salesman to do is listen.

A dozen years ago, I was a new partner in a company. I would have meetings with execs at the headquarters of big companies including Gannett/USA Today, Marriott, Mars Inc., Hilton, etc. for what would possibly be contracts for multi-years and multi-millions of dollars. The majority owner always wanted to go with me, and the meetings would quickly turn to shit as he dominated them by simply talking about our company and what we provide. Being new there, it was a tough issue to bring up, so I had to go to another partner who had been there a decade to have him run interference when I would have big meetings.

The majority owner took no time to find common ground/break the ice. He took no time to probe or ask questions as to why the company was interested in looking at a new vendor. Clearly, they took the meeting for some reason: their vendor was too expensive, wasn't fulfilling their obligation, didn't have the best technology, simply wanting to have a backup vendor in emergencies, etc. This is all pertinent information you have to discover in order to properly sell. That majority owner would simply ramble on about all of the things we provide, many times the customer's current vendor already provided or they had no interest in.

I've watched the same thing happen with coaches recruiting kids. They entirely skip the part about listening and finding out what the recruit deems most important. The coach tries being best friends with the recruit, joking with him, and then telling him about everything the school/program can offer that recruit. But all of that is meaningless if you haven't listened to what is important to the recruit - selling a kid on warm weather year round means shit if the kid loves skiing; selling the kid on the school having a huge enrollment and tons of diversity if the kid is from a small high school and is sure he wants a small campus; selling a kid on how hot the girls on campus are if he doesn't have much of a desire to date or has a serious, long-term girlfriend who is coming to school with him. I see it every damn year, multiple times, and I always question how head coaches aren't wise enough to understand this and have a course for his coaches (but many times, the head coaches are just as guilty of doing it).

1) Find a common interest/break the ice: If you're selling financial services and a guy walks in with a Marshall shirt, start talking to him about the Herd. Let him know about the last game you went to or give him some good-natured ribbing if you're a wvu fan.

2) Find out why the customer is looking for financial services. Listen to what they are looking for. Find out why they are looking. At first, most people won't completely open up about why they are looking. They have a current bank but will claim to just want to see what else is out there or if they can get a lower interest rate. In reality, it's usually far more than that. After listening and asking some probing questions, they start to open up. They will tell you about how their bank takes two days to get their direct deposit into their account. Since they get paid on Mondays, that means they don't get their money in their account until Wednesdays. Since their mortgage is automatically drafted from their account every other Wednesday, it means sometimes it is debited hours before their direct deposit hits, which means they end up getting insufficient funds fees. Even at this point, you still mostly stay quiet. Knowing the bank takes two days to get the direct deposit in the guy's account, you realize that bank probably doesn't have great technology, so you ask about their app and if they offer mobile check deposits, etc. The guy states they don't offer online check deposits, so he has to take them to the bank to deposit them. He then opens up about how one time, he put the check in the deposit slot while the bank was closed, and the check ended up getting suck in the after hours deposit box. Quickly, the guy who claimed that he was just shopping around or looking for a better interest rate has revealed some issues with his current bank.

3) At this point, you see that he has "wounds" that his bank has caused. Without making it obvious, you start to poke these wounds to make them bigger. His direct deposit takes two days to hit his account? "Ouch, that shouldn't happen like that." Show empathy by talking about how getting hit with just one insufficient fee per month due to the bank taking so long adds up to $400/year and over $7000 over a decade if he were to simply take that lost money and invest it properly (in a service you coincidentally have, which you will reveal later). Show understanding how you would be annoyed if you had to drive to/from the bank each time just to deposit a check. After a long day at work, the last thing you want to do is have to drive ten minutes in traffic to the bank, get out of your car in the cold weather, then fight traffic again to get back to where you were going. Poke the wound. The amount of time and gas going to the bank is a pain in the ass, not to mention the chance the check gets lost/stuck in the drawer. The customer will frequently then to begin more issues with his bank after you start to show empathy for his situation. You've poked the wounds enough that they are now bleeding, gaping holes.

4) At this time, you take the opportunity to tell him how much you love working at your bank, because it's such an easy job. Your bank has invested $15 million in new technology over the last two years. As a result, your system makes direct deposits available within 24 hours for the first six months of that direct deposit. Then, after that, the direct deposits are available immediately. "It's your money, why should you have to wait for it, right?" Instead of losing $400/year in insufficient funds fees, he'd do much better putting that $400 in XYZ funds. Explain that you've done that with 20% of your wife's paychecks, and it has yielded X% of returns.

Part of that technology investment also allows customers to deposit checks from the free mobile app. No more wasted trips to the bank after hours just to make a deposit. Go straight home to your family after work - don't spend 20+ minutes going to the bank just to deposit a check.

Even though you can't offer him a better interest rate than he is getting, you will still save him $400/year in insufficient funds, earn him $7000 by taking that throwaway money and investing it just like you do with your wife's money, and save him a lot of time by providing free mobile banking that his current bank doesn't have.

Even if his first priority for coming to your bank was to get a lower interest rate, you still saved him time and money without being able to fulfill his original goal.

5) Ask for his business, and tell him why starting immediately is beneficial to him ("Don't risk another insufficient fee, I can do your direct deposit paperwork right here in less than 90 seconds"; "If you sign up by the close of business tomorrow, we also have a promotion for a free $100 into your account").

1) Break the ice/build the relationship/find common ground
2) Listen and ask questions to find out why the person is really there; probe without probing
3) Use that information to be able to poke the wound
4) Come full circle by telling him how you/your company can resolve those issues for him and provide benefits that he doesn't currently get
5) Ask for his business.

It's a tried-and-true sales cycle that anyone who comes in contact with customers should be trained on.
serious question: are you on adderall? i only ask because you appear to think everything you post in detail, and a couple people i work with would write diatribe after diatribe on shit they actually do have a clue about, but may not necessarily be a professional at, sort of like you, and they're both on it.

i need to get a script. if you don't, you should . . . unless it would have the opposite affect on you, which is possible, i think. if the same, imagine the thoughts that constantly go through your mind, channeling all of that activity into a streamlined process, then multiplying all the activity by ten, only to be able to get 10 times more things done that you currently do.
 
GK, you might like this one. I had a job interview one time. I was already at my job, so this job interview had to be for something really special to make me leave. It was totally outside of my field that I am in now, so I was thinking this better be perfect for me to leave. It was still sales, but something new. I did the fist interview and it was all good and the manager was cool and I did well.

They called me for a second interview with the District Manager. I was still going back and forth about leaving the known and I was doing well. But, I thought it never hurts to go listen. So, I meet them at a restaurant for the interview. Well, it was like good cop bad cop. The District Manager was a pure ass. He was trying to rattle me which is fine, but he was a just an ass you could tell. No way I could work for that guy. He was arrogant and just had that look. He smarted off a time or two. Finally, I was like pal, I don't need you.

About 45 minutes in he said, why don't we take a break. We all get up go to the restroom and he goes to the counter to order. He said while you are on the break really think about if you would like to work for us. I went to the bathroom. Walked about the back door. Got in my car. Watched them sit back down. I sat in the car and watched them looking for me. Sent the guy a text and said, "No thanks, have a good day." Drove off.
 
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Good grief man. You have to do all that just to keep your sales reps in line? I worked in sales/marketing for about a year and that was enough for me. I had a sales tracking software that I was supposed to record all my sales calls - these were a huge waste, because our management wanted to see a topic, who you spoke to, blah, blah. I mean, that was important for your cold calls, but once you were established, sales calls were really just to drop off some kind of treat and continue trying to form a relationship with the individuals.

The thing I hated most was having someone breathing down my neck all the time. All managers loved you when you got lucky and would land a bunch of referrals, but then started accusing you of just not trying at all when you didn't maintain those numbers. The fact is, I had some months when I didn't work nearly as hard, yet my numbers were high and the total opposite during other months. I was at the mercy of the ebb and flow of the market, really.
They are doing that too us now. Biggest waste of time ever. Would you rather have us out selling or putting shit in a computer than nobody will ever use and half of it or more is made up just to do it.
 
GK, you might like this one. I had a job interview one time. I was already at my job, so this job interview had to be for something really special to make me leave. It was totally outside of my field that I am in now, so I was thinking this better be perfect for me to leave. It was still sales, but something new. I did the fist interview and it was all good and the manager was cool and I did well.

They called me for a second interview with the District Manager. I was still going back and forth about leaving the known and I was doing well. But, I thought it never hurts to go listen. So, I meet them at a restaurant for the interview. Well, it was like good cop bad cop. The District Manager was a pure ass. He was trying to rattle me which is fine, but he was a just an ass you could tell. No way I could work for that guy. He was arrogant and just had that look. He smarted off a time or two. Finally, I was like pal, I don't need you.

About 45 minutes in he said, why don't we take a break. We all get up go to the restroom and he goes to the counter to order. He said why you are on the break really think about if you would like to work for us. I went to the bathroom. Walked about the back door. Got in my car. Watched them sit back down. I sat in the car and watched them looking for me. Sent the guy a text and said, "No thanks, have a good day." Drove off.
Great story bro.... snore
 
GK, you might like this one. I had a job interview one time. I was already at my job, so this job interview had to be for something really special to make me leave. It was totally outside of my field that I am in now, so I was thinking this better be perfect for me to leave. It was still sales, but something new. I did the fist interview and it was all good and the manager was cool and I did well.

They called me for a second interview with the District Manager. I was still going back and forth about leaving the known and I was doing well. But, I thought it never hurts to go listen. So, I meet them at a restaurant for the interview. Well, it was like good cop bad cop. The District Manager was a pure ass. He was trying to rattle me which is fine, but he was a just an ass you could tell. No way I could work for that guy. He was arrogant and just had that look. He smarted off a time or two. Finally, I was like pal, I don't need you.

About 45 minutes in he said, why don't we take a break. We all get up go to the restroom and he goes to the counter to order. He said why you are on the break really think about if you would like to work for us. I went to the bathroom. Walked about the back door. Got in my car. Watched them sit back down. I sat in the car and watched them looking for me. Sent the guy a text and said, "No thanks, have a good day." Drove off.

It wasn't a formal interview, but I had a P&C district guy give me a pitch in a restaurant once about how much money I could make if I came to work for him. My company wasn't a player in the property and casualty field and I had been strictly financials at that point. He said that if I would come to work for him, that in a few years I could make...and he quoted me this number. It was literally half of what I was making. I thanked him for his interest, but said I couldn't afford a pay cut. It embarrassed both of us.
 
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