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California's single-payer health care boondoggle is back and worse than ever...Those lovely Democrat policies....

30CAT

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May 29, 2001
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Remember, they are also paying for healthcare of illegal foreign nationals. Any board bleaters ready to explain how Democrat policies are so great and why aren't their bleaters flocking to the Democrat holy land, California?

Karl Marx could have been forecasting the future of California when he said that history repeats itself – first as tragedy, then as farce.

The tragedy is a state budget of $225.9 billion this year, with a budget deficit equivalent to nearly one-third of that figure – $73 billion, according to the latest estimate from the state Legislative Analyst's Office.

The farce is California state Assemblyman Ash Kalra, a Democrat, re-introducing legislation to ban private health insurance and force all Californians into a single, publicly run health plan – at a cost estimated at $391 billion a year the last time he brought it forward, in 2021.

This fixation on single-payer health care is not just unrealistic. It's sadistic, given that single-payer forces people to wait in long lines for subpar treatment, in large part because low government payments result in persistent shortages of doctors.

Look at Britain's National Health Service. British junior doctors have gone on strike 10 times since March 2023. They're paid a pittance to keep a lid on costs.

The strikes have only delayed treatments and made waiting times worse. Since December 2022, more than 1.2 million appointments have been canceled thanks to a severe shortage of doctors, nurses and paramedics.

Roughly 6.3 million people were on waiting lists for more than 7.6 million treatments in England as of the end of December. That's more than 10% of the population. Ghastly stories abound of patients waiting years for critical treatment, or stuffed in hospital hallways until a bed frees up, or watching their fellow patients die in waiting rooms.

To escape these horrors, around one in eight Brits pay for private health care outside the public NHS.

Our neighbors in Canada face similar woes under their single-payer health care system. According to research from the Fraser Institute, a Vancouver think tank, Canadians face a median wait of nearly 28 weeks for care from a specialist following referral by a general practitioner.

In Canada, private insurance is illegal – unlike in the United Kingdom. So Canadians must leave the country if they want timelier care. A 2019 report from SecondStreet.org, a Canadian think tank, found that Canadians made more than 200,000 trips abroad to seek medical care in 2017.

Are Californians ready to wait seven months for crucial treatments? Or will they leave the state and pay out of pocket for care more quickly?

Kalra calls his latest bid for single-payer – officially dubbed AB 2200, the California Guaranteed Health Care for All Act – an improvement on his previous efforts. It's hard to see how.

He proposes to pass the bill, then ask the federal government for a waiver to divert all the money it delivers to the state for the likes of Medicare and Medicaid into a new "CalCare" health plan.

There's no plan for how to come up with the rest of the money needed to pay for it. But given the estimated cost of previous single-payer plans, it could require doubling the state's tax take.

This is, to be blunt, unlikely. The last time single-payer advocates came knocking in Sacramento, they were counting on Gov. Gavin Newsom going along with them to fulfill campaign promises. Staring down a record budget deficit, the governor is highly unlikely to back a wholesale single-payer system.

In fact, it's unclear how he'll come up with the $2.6 billion a year he's committed for state-funded coverage for illegal immigrants through Medi-Cal, the state's Medicaid program.

Even many California Democrats recognize that single-payer is a pipe dream. "I'm just stating the obvious, that's always been the concern about single-payer -- the cost," Assembly Speaker Robert Rivas said last month.

Fiscal reality may be the death knell for single-payer in California this year. But it's safe to assume that the state's progressives – not to mention the California Nurses Association, which has been a driving force behind AB 2200 and its predecessors – will resurrect the idea again and again.

Patients should take note of how government-run systems in other countries delay and deny care – and make clear that they won't stand for such tragedies or farces here.
 
My sister in law went about a month in February unable to keep food down. She then went to a doctor and they diagnosed she needed gall bladder surgery. Got that done. Still can't keep food down. Told her they need endoscopy? Called to schedule appointment and was told the first opening they had was June.
 
My sister in law went about a month in February unable to keep food down. She then went to a doctor and they diagnosed she needed gall bladder surgery. Got that done. Still can't keep food down. Told her they need endoscopy? Called to schedule appointment and was told the first opening they had was June.
Good luck with that in Canada or England.

By the way, is she on Medicare by any chance?
 
Good luck with that in Canada or England.
My sister in law went about a month in February unable to keep food down. She then went to a doctor and they diagnosed she needed gall bladder surgery. Got that done. Still can't keep food down. Told her they need endoscopy? Called to schedule appointment and was told the first opening they had was June.

^^^4 months

By the way, is she on Medicare by any chance?
No.
 
My sister in law went about a month in February unable to keep food down. She then went to a doctor and they diagnosed she needed gall bladder surgery. Got that done. Still can't keep food down. Told her they need endoscopy? Called to schedule appointment and was told the first opening they had was June.

^^^4 months


No.
Is she on Obama care product?

What insurance does she have and where does she live? There is something about your assertion that needs explored. Please tell us more.
 
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Is she on Obama care product?
No.
What insurance does she have
Either through her employer (an insurance company) or through her husband, retired heavy machine operator.
and where does she live?
Wayne County
There is something about your assertion that needs explored.
Yeah, you don't like the fact that it's not as rosy in U.S. healthcare as you want us to believe.
 
No.

Either through her employer (an insurance company) or through her husband, retired heavy machine operator.

Wayne County

Yeah, you don't like the fact that it's not as rosy in U.S. healthcare as you want us to believe.
I’ve never claimed it’s rosy. Hell no it’s not rosy. What she’s experiencing is what I’ve claimed on here for years would be a growing problem and getting worse. You and others have spent more time typing “idiot” than actually listening to what my 25+ years of healthcare experience was pointing out.

She’s in WV where the healthcare market has been constrained by consolidating medical facilities and doc buyouts by these facilities. All driven by (rural) healthcare’s dependence on Medicare &Medicaid dollars and Federal grant funded care (university run facilities).

There is NO competition in the market there. Every player in Htgn healthcare market has bellied up to the bar for guaranteed Medicare and Medicaid $$. Combined with the limited commercial payor market and you have a perfect storm for less services despite the demand.

If you’re being truthful about her being on commercial insurance it sounds like there simply isn’t enough providers in that market to do what she needs. Again….all driven by the Federally funded system that eventually crowds out payor and provider competition. This is what you wanted and what you’re getting.
 
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@extragreen

she needs to call around to any GI docs in the area and ask for something sooner.

in a competitive market, a good private practice should be able to work her in quickly. I can get an endoscopy where i'm at in days because there are multiple GI groups, some of which are independent, some employed by the hospital. In my experience, independent groups move faster.

DO NOT just rely on the PCP to schedule with a specialist. Be your own advocate, start calling.
 
I’ve never claimed it’s rosy. Hell no it’s not rosy. What she’s experiencing is what I’ve claimed on here for years would be a growing problem and getting worse. You and others have spent more time typing “idiot” than actually listening to what my 25+ years of healthcare experience was pointing out.

She’s in WV where the healthcare market has been constrained by consolidating medical facilities and doc buyouts by these facilities. All driven by (rural) healthcare’s dependence on Medicare &Medicaid dollars and Federal grant funded care (university run facilities).

There is NO competition in the market there. Every player in Htgn healthcare market has bellied up to the bar for guaranteed Medicare and Medicaid $$. Combined with the limited commercial payor market and you have a perfect storm for less services despite the demand.

If you’re being truthful about her being on commercial insurance it sounds like there simply isn’t enough providers in that market to do what she needs. Again….all driven by the Federally funded system that eventually crowds out payor and provider competition. This is what you wanted and what you’re getting.

Bingo.

With no competition there's zero incentive to give good customer service/speed things a long.
 
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I’ve never claimed it’s rosy. Hell no it’s not rosy. What she’s experiencing is what I’ve claimed on here for years would be a growing problem and getting worse. You and others have spent more time typing “idiot” than actually listening to what my 25+ years of healthcare experience was pointing out.

She’s in WV where the healthcare market has been constrained by consolidating medical facilities and doc buyouts by these facilities. All driven by (rural) healthcare’s dependence on Medicare &Medicaid dollars and Federal grant funded care (university run facilities).

There is NO competition in the market there. Every player in Htgn healthcare market has bellied up to the bar for guaranteed Medicare and Medicaid $$. Combined with the limited commercial payor market and you have a perfect storm for less services despite the demand.

If you’re being truthful about her being on commercial insurance it sounds like there simply isn’t enough providers in that market to do what she needs. Again….all driven by the Federally funded system that eventually crowds out payor and provider competition. This is what you wanted and what you’re getting.
This is excuse making^^^. Many nations have lower wait times than the U.S.
 
This is excuse making^^^. Many nations have lower wait times than the U.S.
You are comparing your anecdotal experience in Wayne freaking County to other "nations"? Doc Hungus directly refuted your assertion saying he can get it done in days. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Hungus practicing somewhere in the US? Additionally, he completely agreed with Raleigh's explanation of what is causing your delay. But god forbid you believe two individuals that are directly involved with the industry.
 
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@extragreen

she needs to call around to any GI docs in the area and ask for something sooner.

in a competitive market, a good private practice should be able to work her in quickly. I can get an endoscopy where i'm at in days because there are multiple GI groups, some of which are independent, some employed by the hospital. In my experience, independent groups move faster.

DO NOT just rely on the PCP to schedule with a specialist. Be your own advocate, start calling.
I had cousins that fled California last year and moved to NC, Raleigh area. They couldn’t believe how fast they were able to schedule and manage their new group of providers for their care. What would take months to schedule in SoCal, they could get in weeks or days here.

COMPETITION. Both in facilities, provider groups and payor mix.
 
If OP wrote that himself, I'm the King of Spain.

Another farce would be thinking someone introducing a bill means it will pass. Didn't some dip shit legislator in WV introduce a bill to ban Barbie? California might be liberal, but I'd wager the insurance industry greases plenty of palms out there too.
 
California healthcare is controlled largely by two entities. Kaiser Permanente and Govt (Medicare & Medicaid$).

Any surprise the two are working together to take over markets around the country to expand their form of coverage??
 
I had cousins that fled California last year and moved to NC, Raleigh area. They couldn’t believe how fast they were able to schedule and manage their new group of providers for their care. What would take months to schedule in SoCal, they could get in weeks or days here.

COMPETITION. Both in facilities, provider groups and payor mix.
Before I saw your next post I was about to ask whether it was Kaiser.

They can do quality care, but it has to be on their terms. I've had mixed experiences with them. Their footprint is growing.
===

Us healthcare is a mess and there are bad actors from doctors, admins, hospital systems, insurances, etc.

I don't know the answer but single payor I just can't get behind.

I'm sympathetic to rural folks trying to get specialist care - it's a disaster. Post obama care I swear it got worse, everything was to be funneled into big metro health systems and that's just not feasible for many rural people with family support in their own communities.
 
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There are always trade offs....I still contend this trope has merit.....

Pick two of three priorities: fast, inexpensive, and high quality. It's very hard (do able but hard) to do all three well.
 
You are comparing your anecdotal experience in Wayne freaking County to other "nations"? Doc Hungus directly refuted your assertion saying he can get it done in days. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Hungus practicing somewhere in the US? Additionally, he completely agreed with Raleigh's explanation of what is causing your delay. But god forbid you believe two individuals that are directly involved with the industry.
I don't often take the word of cons and you're one of them. Idiots like you don't take into consideration that doctors and nurses can get appointments faster than the public can.
 
Is this policy, or just what capitalism tends to do? Allocate resources towards the strongest demand, only the big that swallows the small survives.
When regulations take hold, it's the big that have the financial backing to do it. This is just another Crony Capitalist example, which isn't capitalism at all. It's govt mandated monopolies so the market can be squeezed further, encouraged by the larger systems (both University and independent systems). I told you years ago, this was going to become the norm when the final nail of ObummerCare was signed into place. I told you it was going to accelerate these deals. It has. The first stage of "single payor" has been laid and this is but a small taste of more to come. Now you wonder why???

And hospital CEO's of all sizes championed ObummerCare at the time. Why? Because they wanted their systems to being on record as to supporting CMS (medicare) monopoly driven reimbursement $$ policy. The little guys slit their own throat, thinking that reimbursement for them would be continuing. One of the hospital "leaders" tried telling me this would all be ok, despite my counter: "why would the govt take away funding from our rural care system? Rural care is necessary." Five years later his system was bankrupt and begging NC state legislature members to have UNC Health buy him to keep the doors open and lights on. This is happening all over the country.

The regulation, both on federal and many state policies, limits real competition in healthcare. It perpetuates hospital mismanagement-incompetence and lack of price transparency to the public. Despite what the nuts at NYT tell us, the only thing keeping healthcare prices from seeing hyper inflationary pressures are the commercial payors negotiating prices for their paying members. Govt-Medicare reimbursement is so low to the providers that those "losses" on care are ultimately passed on through to commercial payor contracts. Without real insurance, like commercial payors funding the system, delivery of healthcare in this country would implode in months.
 
I don't often take the word of cons and you're one of them. Idiots like you don't take into consideration that doctors and nurses can get appointments faster than the public can.
No more evidence is needed in knowing you have no idea what you're talking about.^^^

By the way, shorter wait times for which procedures exactly?
 
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My sister in law went about a month in February unable to keep food down. She then went to a doctor and they diagnosed she needed gall bladder surgery. Got that done. Still can't keep food down. Told her they need endoscopy? Called to schedule appointment and was told the first opening they had was June.
In West Virginia/Tri State? The reason I ask is I know I have relatives and the healthcare is bad in terms of wait time . Can't get appointments. Long waits. Seems to be a shortage there. They tell me wait times and I am like what?

That wouldn't happen where I live. I bet she could get one within days at most.

As Doc Hungus, said I would not sit around and wait. Hammer the phone and she will get in somewhere. Oh, and maybe not just wait for one in Huntington. Look around.
 
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No more evidence is needed in knowing you have no idea what you're talking about.^^^

By the way, shorter wait times for which procedures exactly?
You are always and forever unwilling to find fault with the "capitalist" system. It's "always the government's fault". It's always the fault of the swamp, fbi, cia, doj, irs, all while you and the orange jesus sheep favor a stupid, lying, treasonous candidate that is the biggest national security risk the U.S. has. Not to mention the lying cowards in Congress that know that what I say about him is true, but choose allegiance to trump over this country. Summary: you're a stupid liar.
 
Post obama care I swear it got worse
I don't suppose that would have anything to do with the fact that the percentage of Americans with health insurance skyrocketed from 83.7% to 92.1% from 2010 to 2017 when the aca began, resulting in 41 million more people insured in those 7 years. Sounds like supply side failure again.
 
You are always and forever unwilling to find fault with the "capitalist" system. It's "always the government's fault". It's always the fault of the swamp, fbi, cia, doj, irs, all while you and the orange jesus sheep favor a stupid, lying, treasonous candidate that is the biggest national security risk the U.S. has. Not to mention the lying cowards in Congress that know that what I say about him is true, but choose allegiance to trump over this country. Summary: you're a stupid liar.
IMO, a true capitalist system, not the crony capitalist system the govt has helped to turn a lot of it into, is the ultimate equalizer. Capitalist competition rarely has proven to be a bad thing for consumers of products or services, including healthcare. Monopolies, company developed or govt legislatively created, (which healthcare is turning into) prevents the betterment of the masses.

Your ilk demands "equality" and "fairness" but support the very govt that ensures inequality and unfairness exists through well intentioned misguided govt policies and political deals resulting in political elites becoming worth hundreds of millions on 185K salaries and the average guy left locked into average or worse. You mindlessly ramble about orange jesus, but hypocritically support lifelong politicians like Pelosi and Biden who enriched themselves and their families by the hundreds of millions in the crony system they helped to create with your help. You conveniently remain silent to that.

Frankly, DJT has not much to do with this specific healthcare conversation we were having. There wasn't really a reason for you to introduce him to this thread. Your OMB derangement continues to reinforce why attempting to have a conversation with you is a complete waste of time. Especially when anyone with specific knowledge and experience of the subject tries to engage.

Summary: You continue to show you're an uneducated imbecile and a democrat rube who wants ruled over and walked on by the elite political class. Hoping for the crumbs they drop to you in whatever miserable, entitled, existence you have left. When all else fails in a conversation and your ignorant assertions on the topic demonstrate your own delusional fallacy...you're simply left with: BUTT TRUMP.
 
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I don't suppose that would have anything to do with the fact that the percentage of Americans with health insurance skyrocketed from 83.7% to 92.1% from 2010 to 2017 when the aca began, resulting in 41 million more people insured in those 7 years. Sounds like supply side failure again.
^^unemployed cabinet maker and HS dropout discussing health care^^
 
IMO, a true capitalist system, not the crony capitalist system the govt has helped to turn a lot of it into, is the ultimate equalizer. Capitalist competition rarely has proven to be a bad thing for consumers of products or services, including healthcare. Monopolies, company developed or govt legislatively created, (which healthcare is turning into) prevents the betterment of the masses.

Your ilk demands "equality" and "fairness" but support the very govt that ensures inequality and unfairness exists through well intentioned misguided govt policies and political deals resulting in political elites becoming worth hundreds of millions on 185K salaries and the average guy left locked into average or worse. You mindlessly ramble about orange jesus, but hypocritically support lifelong politicians like Pelosi and Biden who enriched themselves and their families by the hundreds of millions in the crony system they helped to create with your help. You conveniently remain silent to that.

Frankly, DJT has not much to do with this specific healthcare conversation we were having. There wasn't really a reason for you to introduce him to this thread. Your OMB derangement continues to reinforce why attempting to have a conversation with you is a complete waste of time. Especially when anyone with specific knowledge and experience of the subject tries to engage.

Summary: You continue to show you're an uneducated imbecile and a democrat rube who wants ruled over and walked on by the elite political class. Hoping for the crumbs they drop to you in whatever miserable, entitled, existence you have left. When all else fails in a conversation and your ignorant assertions on the topic demonstrate your own delusional fallacy...you're simply left with: BUTT TRUMP.
mic-drop-obama.gif
 
IMO, a true capitalist system, not the crony capitalist system the govt has helped to turn a lot of it into, is the ultimate equalizer. Capitalist competition rarely has proven to be a bad thing for consumers of products or services, including healthcare. Monopolies, company developed or govt legislatively created, (which healthcare is turning into) prevents the betterment of the masses.

Your ilk demands "equality" and "fairness" but support the very govt that ensures inequality and unfairness exists through well intentioned misguided govt policies and political deals resulting in political elites becoming worth hundreds of millions on 185K salaries and the average guy left locked into average or worse. You mindlessly ramble about orange jesus, but hypocritically support lifelong politicians like Pelosi and Biden who enriched themselves and their families by the hundreds of millions in the crony system they helped to create with your help. You conveniently remain silent to that.

Frankly, DJT has not much to do with this specific healthcare conversation we were having. There wasn't really a reason for you to introduce him to this thread. Your OMB derangement continues to reinforce why attempting to have a conversation with you is a complete waste of time. Especially when anyone with specific knowledge and experience of the subject tries to engage.

Summary: You continue to show you're an uneducated imbecile and a democrat rube who wants ruled over and walked on by the elite political class. Hoping for the crumbs they drop to you in whatever miserable, entitled, existence you have left. When all else fails in a conversation and your ignorant assertions on the topic demonstrate your own delusional fallacy...you're simply left with: BUTT TRUMP.
You're an idiot and a liar.
 
I don't suppose that would have anything to do with the fact that the percentage of Americans with health insurance skyrocketed from 83.7% to 92.1% from 2010 to 2017 when the aca began, resulting in 41 million more people insured in those 7 years. Sounds like supply side failure again.
So you admit that Obamacare was an insurance coverage bill and not a healthcare bill
 
If OP wrote that himself, I'm the King of Spain.
Didn't claim to write it.

On a side note, there would likely be at least some less wait time, if we weren't paying for the healthcare of illegal foreign nationals.

Democrat policies suck.
 
I don't often take the word of cons and you're one of them. Idiots like you don't take into consideration that doctors and nurses can get appointments faster than the public can.
This is why almost everyone both laughs at and feels sorry for you. If you think that Hungus was implying he personally could get an appointment quicker - for himself - well, you are special.
 
This is why almost everyone both laughs at and feels sorry for you. If you think that Hungus was implying he personally could get an appointment quicker - for himself - well, you are special.
You're an idiot under all circumstances. I laugh at you half wits who can't figure out why it got more difficult to get an appointment when 41 million more people were able to receive healthcare coverage in a 7 year stretch. moron.
 
You're an idiot under all circumstances. I laugh at you half wits who can't figure out why it got more difficult to get an appointment when 41 million more people were able to receive healthcare coverage in a 7 year stretch.

Yes, you really are an idiot. This is just laughable. By the way, you made another claim you were never able to provide evidence for: Lower wait times for which procedures specifically?
 
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