When you are gifted a housing crisis that results in manufacturing dropping to 11.4M and you bring those jobs back to 12.3M, I call those gains. You don't get to give Trump a pass on Covid, but blame the housing crisis on Obama.
CNN fact-checker says Tampon Tim's claim on Trump economy 'not true,' says manufacturing jobs rose under him
- Thread starter 30CAT
- Start date
So you want to blame Obama for the 2008 housing crash but you don't want to hold Trump accountable for Covid? The crash was the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression. If that's how you see it, no reason to debate it.
At the end of 2016, we had 12.3M manufacturing jobs. At the end of Feb. 2020, before any notion of Covid, we have 12.8M jobs. The gain was 400K. I have openly given Trump credit for that.
By the end of 2020, those numbers had dropped to 12.2M jobs, or a net loss of 161K jobs. At one point in 2020, we were as low as 11.4M jobs.
When Obama left office, there were 12.5 million jobs. He didn't say F it in January and give up on the next 11 months.
i'm not pointing this comment at either side of this argument, specifically: it's insane how far people go out of their way to over look data and skew data in the favor of their political affiliation in an attempt to make themselves feel better about looking down their nose at the other side.
As an independent, I consciously try and remain objective. Admittedly it's hard with Trump but only because i don't believe what he says which means I have no faith he will implement his policies.i'm not pointing this comment at either side of this argument, specifically: it's insane how far people go out of their way to over look data and skew data in the favor of their political affiliation in an attempt to make themselves feel better about looking down their nose at the other side.
There are two areas he's leveraging that I am open minded about.
I am not sure I agree with the level of tariffs he is proposing or have faith he will implement them smartly without crashing our economy, but I do like the idea of incentivizing companies if they bring their manufacturing jobs to America and I like the idea of tax credits or incentives only being applicable to companies employing American workers. With the way the world has evolved, we have folks who need those specific types of jobs, and way too many of the jobs are now in China and India. I think we've evolved as a country enough that we now recognize that we aren't "too good" for that type of employment.
I also liked some his executive actions on the border. I think his rhetoric is ridiculous and I do believe he tanked the border bill just so he could run on it but I also agree that if you are not in this country, we don't have a humanitarian obligation to allow you to enter and if you enter illegally, we need to expedite deporting you.
weird, I'm reading both the comments from Rock and Bcountry and not seeing where they made that claim either. You want to try again?
Then you didn’t take the time to place in to context the data shared, on the post that I responded to.
don't mind him, he's just parroting.
I thought we were running out libiots around here...good to see a new one enter the fray with baldy, cuck, confused and hokies.
it's quite the commitment to ideology to still be on the Biden / Harris train.
If you are referring to me, I've been on this site and this forum for roughly 25 years. I only engage on this particular board sporadically because ninety-five percent of the time it's just a sh*tload of name-calling with almost zero actual productive dialogue.
The border bill was horrible legislation. If normalized letting in millions of otherwise illegal immigrants every year. I suggest you read it if you haven’t. If you have let me know why you think it was a good idea to pass it.
The “killed it to run on it” narrative is simply political. They never talk about the border bills put forth by republicans that the dems killed.
The “killed it to run on it” narrative is simply political. They never talk about the border bills put forth by republicans that the dems killed.
Sure I did. "Context" would tell you the comments were about the manufacturing job #s during the Obama era...NOT a word about the housing crash being Obama's fault. No one blamed Obama for the housing crash. Please link us to the comment that blamed Obama to the housing crash specifically. You've placed this type of conjecture and misstatements in multiple threads now. You seem to be intentionally dishonest.
wasn't there also a lot of other fat in it, funding for ukraine, etc.? this thing of passing bills for a certain thing, i.e. border security, and including other crap in it, i.e. ukraine funding, should be a no go. do a bill on border security, another on ukraine, etc. stop the political bullshit of "you vote for this, you accept that." both sides do it and it's bullshit.
I haven’t done anything other than suggest that Obama did not see any gains in manufacturing jobs under his administration, which he didn’t.
That’s about like Biden bragging that gas prices have finally dropped $.30/gallon after they went up $2/gallon under his administration.
Context is that when he presented job gains and losses, he disregarded the massive drops related to the housing crisis when assessing Obama but didn't include Covid losses when discussing Trump.
Since you are struggling, let me rephrase my comment. "So you want to blame Obama for the job losses associated with the housing crisis but you don't want to blame Trump for the job losses related to Covid?"
Just to be more helpful since you are taking things out of comment, my original comment was a question. Give that some thought.
Fair enough.
Trump did not see any gains in manufacturing jobs under his administration.
That would be a fair argument if we didn't send 65 billion to Ukraine immediately following the border bill tanking.
I agree, though, both sides do it and it is bullshit.
I can't speak to the border bills that Democrats killed but that wouldn't surprise me. Our political system is broken in that both sides choose party over Country.
As far as the bill, it didn't normalize allowing illegals into the country. It gave the DHS authority to completely shut down the border after crossings reached defined levels.
To be clear, I don't think it was a perfect bill but it's a hell of a lot better than we have right now and it was at least a big step forward which is something we've not seen in decades.
You are foolish if you don't believe we need a massive influx of border agents and a dramatic enhancement in border technology. I don't believe in illegal crossings at all and think that those here illegally should be deported. I am also not a huge fan of such lax rules related to asylum.
wait, what? how does funding sent to ukraine after the border bill was tanked somehow diminish the fact that there was a pile of funding included in the border bill for ukraine? hell, if anything, it makes it worse.
at the end of the day, though, as @Rock98Dog indicated above, that bill was bullshit, and the left's cry that trump tanked it to run on it is political horse shit.
expand on this. was it basically saying, "after X number of illegals get in, we'll shut it down."?
EDIT: ahh, never mind. it was 5000 catch and release a day. so, yeah, that's basically what it says: get caught, get released while you await your immigration hearing.
Seriously, you wonder why people are questioning your statements. You're supporting what Rock said here. Who is struggling?
Exactly. Why pass a bill that says “after the first 200,000 every month we will close the border”? Why not just say “close the border” without legalizing in writing that we are going to allow 200,000 immigrants across the border every month? How is that not normalizing crossings?
Clearly I can’t help you. You are in attack mode and can’t flip the switch.
Because as far as I understand it, these are asylum seekers and right now there is no limit and there is no legal mechanism to shutdown the border that won’t be challenged in court. The intent was to try and find some middle ground both sides can agree on. As it’s stood for decades, we get zero progress and a shitload of finger pointing.
Thats why I didn’t consider it a shit bill.
Until each side gives a little, we get nowhere and we still have the same decades old mess.
Again, I don’t disagree with turning away and deporting illegals and I do believe we need more stringent standards for asylum seekers.
Because the rights reasoning for tanking the bill was that funding for Ukraine and Israel was attached. In the bill was 60 billion for Ukraine.
If that was the issue, why bump it to 65 billion and approve it after the fact?
I do still believe Trump tanked it by design. We’ll have to agree to disagree.
You should probably accost him and try fighting him in person like you did the other two times. He may not be wearing his running shoes this time, so you may luck out and get to punch him.
So you thought you would come add another zero? And parrot? Nice going. Listen, we know you think you are really smart but most all of us know that isn't the case.
Thanks for your message board resume. I don't think anyone was really curious how long you've been around, we know it's been a long time.
Heck, and I thought those two might finally find common ground based on idiotology.
Man if you consider that an attack you belong on another board. I've been more than accommodative and asked questions and pointed out your comments that make no sense. If you cant handle it, maybe you dont belong here. We see why you only sporadically visit. You dont offer much.
False.
Pre-Covid
U.S. enjoys best manufacturing jobs growth of the last 30 years
Some food for thought: the U.S. had as many people working in the manufacturing sector in December as it did 69 years ago.
www.marketwatch.com
"Last year, 264,000 new manufacturing jobs were added, representing the highest number of new workers since 1988. As a percent of the total workforce, manufacturing rose for the first time since 1984."
This can be directly traced to Clinton and Barney Frank's lending policies. The liberal NY Times at the timee predicted what would happen which ultimately did happen.
Manufacturing sector employment U.S. 2023 | Statista
This statistic shows the number of private sector manufacturing employees in the United States from 1985 to 2023.
www.statista.com
2008 - 15.1MM
2016 - 14.8MM net loss 300k
2019 pre-Covid - 15.1 net gain 300k
2023 14.9MM - net loss from pre-Covid amounts 200k
Manufacturing jobs recovered during Obama's and Biden's terms from financial downturns. Did Trump merely continue the recovery or did he spur actual job growth with his perceived manufacturing friendly policies?
This article only accounts for his first two years in office.False.
Pre-Covid
U.S. enjoys best manufacturing jobs growth of the last 30 years
Some food for thought: the U.S. had as many people working in the manufacturing sector in December as it did 69 years ago.
"Last year, 264,000 new manufacturing jobs were added, representing the highest number of new workers since 1988. As a percent of the total workforce, manufacturing rose for the first time since 1984."
This can be directly traced to Clinton and Barney Frank's lending policies. The liberal NY Times at the timee predicted what would happen which ultimately did happen.
Manufacturing sector employment U.S. 2023 | Statista
This statistic shows the number of private sector manufacturing employees in the United States from 1985 to 2023.
2008 - 15.1MM
2016 - 14.8MM net loss 300k
2019 pre-Covid - 15.1 net gain 300k
2023 14.9MM - net loss from pre-Covid amounts 200k
Manufacturing jobs recovered during Obama's and Biden's terms from financial downturns. Did Trump merely continue the recovery or did he spur actual job growth with his perceived manufacturing friendly policies?
It’s good we have you to let folks know who should or shouldn’t be here.
I didn’t say I sporadically visit. I visit every day and have for a few decades now.
My comments made perfect sense. You may not agree or have a different perspective or opinion but that doesn’t mean they don’t make sense.
My remark about “attack” mode was in reference to your unwillingness to have a productive conversation so you attack the other person rather than the topic at hand.
In addition to Covid shut-downs beginning in 2020 manufacturing jobs were also affected by chip shortages during this same time and is just now recovering.
Global Chip Shortage: Everything You Need to Know
The global chip shortage had widespread impacts on numerous industries. Find out everything you need to know about the causes and effects.
www.techrepublic.com
"Supply issues continued for over three years, impacting industries such as consumer electronics and artificial intelligence."
Another consideration - how much did government monies stimulate post 2020 manufacturing growth? And what may the effect be as these monies dry up?
Things aren't looking good for automakers right now.
New Car Inventory in 2024: Winners and Losers in October
Looking for the latest information on new car inventory for October 2024? Here are the latest trends in supply and demand.
caredge.com
"After nearly two years of record low inventory, automakers are finally bringing more cars to the U.S. market. New car inventory is rising as we enter October 2024. Inventory now exceeds historical norms, following a few years of shortages."
Hmmm...
Clearly you said this...
Trump did see manufacturing gains during his administration - pre-Covid...
Hmmm... Clearly you said this...
And I said the housing crash was primarily on Bill Clinton and Barney Frank (and should have included George W. Bush to a lesser degree).
Actually Covid was likely worse than the housing bubble. You seem to give credit to Obama for the job recovery which would naturally occur to a degree over time and also give credit to Biden for the post-Covid recovery which would also naturally occur to a degree over time.
I simply compared where the numbers were pre and post housing bubble and pre and post Covid and not attributing the low points to any of the three.
I don't see how any of this warrants your snarky remarks but that's on you and not me. Have a nice weekend.
Yet another post where you can’t be honest. There is definitely a trend here. You going to back track from this one too?
Exactly. Your comment supported the point Rock was making and undercut your own position. Maybe it was poor grammar or simply not being able to express yourself effectively in writing, but that’s exactly what you did.
Unfortunately your concept of productive conversation equates to blindly accepting your inaccurate and intentionally dishonest claims about what others are saying. I’m willing to have an open honest conversation. Doesn’t appear you have after I offered my opinion that contradicted yours.
The issue, once again, is horrendous reading comprehension by you lifelong west virginia educated deplorables.
There is a major distinction between the two things you attempted to argue he said that contradicted each other. In one, he was referring to "engaging" on this board. In the other, he was talking about visiting/reading this board.
Engaging would mean posting on here. Reading is entirely different.
Learn to read.
