Conference Rankings
- Thread starter riflearm2
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What rankings are you referencing and what do you consider to be the best for college football? Legitimately asking.
Real time RPI (admittedly I only ever reference that for basketball) has us ahead of the MAC: http://realtimerpi.com/college_football/ncaaf_conf_Men.html
Sagarin has C-USA West as the worst division in FBS but has C-USA East ahead of the MAC East and Sun Belt West. Don't see a combined division/conference ranking: http://sagarin.com/sports/cfsend.htm
I would assume ESPN's power rankings are useful but I can't find an updated list that includes G5s.
Not defending C-USA. It's a very bad league. Just wondering who has us miles behind the other bad FBS leagues.
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Here is what Massey has us at:
https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
They have us ahead of the MAC. I'm not bragging about that either, but it is what it is for now.
https://www.masseyratings.com/cf/compare.htm
They have us ahead of the MAC. I'm not bragging about that either, but it is what it is for now.
Sagarin, which I have used religiously for more than a decade. If you take its scores from C-USA East/West and MAC East/West, then average them, you'll see the MAC is far ahead.
Yeah, that has C-USA .07 better than the MAC. Want to know how meaningless .07 is in that ranking? The next best conference is the Sun Belt. It is 2.80 higher.
Oh thank god, I was afraid there wasn't going to be any bad news this morning.
@The Real SamC
Rifle would like to share something with you...
Currently, C-USA is ranked as the worst conference in FBS . . . and it isn't close.
If that stands through bowl season, it will be the third time in the last four years that Conference USA finished last.
Rifle would like to share something with you...
Currently, C-USA is ranked as the worst conference in FBS . . . and it isn't close.
If that stands through bowl season, it will be the third time in the last four years that Conference USA finished last.
Awesome.
By all means, coming off a five game winning streak, the most recent one being over a team that is STILL receiving votes for the Top 25.
Let's jump on and rip on the conference we play in.
Honest question rifle, and you and I have never had issues as far as I know, but what was the point of the post you made. Why rip on it. Why not take a look at where it was a month ago and see if it is higher now than it was, etc.
Not understanding the negativity, you played here. You are an alum from here.
I think your last two threads have been this one, and then one on questioning why we are charging what we are charging to build a new baseball facility, another sport in which you played while here at Marshall.
Who cares why, who cares what others are doing. If this works, and it will, then why not rip on the other schools for not charging enough?
Again, just questions. Would be interested to hear honest answers instead of some 10,000 word essay that talks down to me, that I am not going to read anyway.
Thanks and GO HERD
By all means, coming off a five game winning streak, the most recent one being over a team that is STILL receiving votes for the Top 25.
Let's jump on and rip on the conference we play in.
Honest question rifle, and you and I have never had issues as far as I know, but what was the point of the post you made. Why rip on it. Why not take a look at where it was a month ago and see if it is higher now than it was, etc.
Not understanding the negativity, you played here. You are an alum from here.
I think your last two threads have been this one, and then one on questioning why we are charging what we are charging to build a new baseball facility, another sport in which you played while here at Marshall.
Who cares why, who cares what others are doing. If this works, and it will, then why not rip on the other schools for not charging enough?
Again, just questions. Would be interested to hear honest answers instead of some 10,000 word essay that talks down to me, that I am not going to read anyway.
Thanks and GO HERD
Where was it a month ago? It was ahead of the MAC and much closer to the Sun Belt than it is now. In other words, the conference's ranking got even worse over the last month.
What was the point? It was to show that Marshall has one championship in a decade in a very bad conference; no championships from 2015-2019 in a conference that will most likely be the worst in the country in three of the last four years. The point is to show just how much we have fallen . . . and the most concerning part of that is the number of fans and administrators who accept it and actually support failure in the worst conference in the country.
Who cares why and what others are doing? I do. This administration has a history of alienating former letter winners. Now, by trying to gouge your former players with this locker sponsorship - something that is 5X the cost of a far better product (FBS locker sponsorship for the lifetime plus more than just your name) - this administration is showing just how out of touch with reality they are and alienating letter winners even more.
Baseball alums, rightfully so, have a sore spot regarding the lies they were told by Marshall. Now, instead of trying to mend that wound, this administration is poking that scab to start bleeding again by gouging them for an unbelievably high price for what they are offering. It's bad business all of the way around.
Care to see the Facebook group chat with nine former Marshall baseball players and their reaction to $5000 for five years considering what other similar programs offer for less money? It's not pretty, and I understand why.
I answered your questions, so how about mine:
1) Why that stadium design? What benefits does it provide other than you may be able to watch more of the action while getting a hot dog (baseball allows breaks in between innings, which provides a reasonable amount of time to go the bathroom or get a hot dog without missing much action)?
2) How does Marshall justify $5000 for five years when bigger programs/sports are offering a much better product for less?
1. Why the stadium design? I am not sure. I know that it seems to be similar to Power Park in Charleston in the way it spreads down the lines. I do not like Power Park primarily because there is no "grandstand" type of effect behind home plate. From the drawings it appears that this one does in fact have some sort of grandstand. Am I wrong? But even still, any field is better than what you had while here, is it not? Or the others that have come since you were gone.
2. Knock on it IF it doesnt work. If it works, and the funding is there to build the field, then why complain. Like someone in that thread mentioned, those teams already had their fields, right? Maybe they did that for their alums after the field was done, and it was done to build an addition, locker room, etc, which is much cheaper than building the entire thing.
2. Knock on it IF it doesnt work. If it works, and the funding is there to build the field, then why complain. Like someone in that thread mentioned, those teams already had their fields, right? Maybe they did that for their alums after the field was done, and it was done to build an addition, locker room, etc, which is much cheaper than building the entire thing.
True and it is sad that a football team that dominated a MAC that was better at that time than CUSA is now. We most likely will play and hopefully win the title this year, but we are a long way from dominating this very bad league. The old SoCon was probably as good as CUSA is now with less scholarships.
The last line of this post is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.
I havent said much to you, or replied to you much as you talk about bball, and about how next year this, and next year that. And the "stick with them," as they get it together, and they played well against Notre Dame etc.
There seems to be a double standard with you, and some others where "Danny" gets a pass, I guess because he is nice to you guys or something, not sure.
I am not going to let you drive a wedge between the two sports like seems to be you, and OUR Bball coaches goal at times.
Its rather sickening.
But to compare the old Southern Conference to what the CUSA is today?
And now you are already saying if we win this conference, its basically no big deal because it is a "bad conference." It is OUR conference man..period. You werent acting like this when we were winning a bad MAC back in the day.
The bulk of your posts now a days are sad, and very hypocritical, but that line is just about as false as saying I am tall, skinny, and have a full head of hair.
of course I know the SoCon isn't better but this league is terrible in football, Obviously soccer is it's best sport followed by baseball. Basketball is also better than football league but obviously not where we would like it to be.
The BIGGEST difference in Danny and Doc is personality and his exciting style of play. Everything is open and above board with him. Ask him any question you want and get a straight answer. No coach speak. I, for one, find that very refreshing. In listing to soccer coach Grassie I can see that he is also like D'Antoni in saying what he believes. We also see that to some extent from Waggs and Tony Kemper. Why don't we see that the our #1 revenue sports head coach? If we did, the stadium would most likely not be having these awful attendance numbers week in and week out.
First, I watch a LOT of sports on TV, from C-USA TV to ESPN+, Stadium on Facebook, CBSSBN on Facebook, I'm a nut at it. It is kind of my "thing". And I can tell you that C-USA is not a worse league in football than the MAC and SunBelt. The difference is they are available on ESPN's three major networks and C-USA is not. If you think all these ratings are actually from folks watching the teams play, I'm pretty sure you're wrong. As for Basketball, MTSU got slaughtered by Coastal Carolina last night, 20 some points, and Presbyterian gave Notre Dame a much better game than we did. And Robert Morris got beat by Toledo worse than we did, so our win over them isn't real impressive either. I'm not knocking basketball, actually love it and will be driving three hours this afternoon to see the game, merely just posting some facts about things. And finally, I don't know Riflearm, I can / might guess who he is. But I do get the feeling that at some point in the last several years, he's had his feelings hurt from someone at MU. If that is truly the case, that is a shame; but maybe it is time to get over it.
The old SoCon was pretty solid. Just look at the top 3 teams: Marshall, Georgia Southern, App State. Hell, even the 2019 SoCon had The Citadel beat Georgia Tech(albeit a bad Tech team, but let’s face it, we beat a bad Purdue team and thumped our chest). Furman this season blew a 2 TD lead against VT and ended up losing by 7...and neither Furman nor The Citadel won the SoCon this year.
Not really sure how you can even say the bball is better in this league than football. Its a one bid league. No other way to quantify it at this point.
As for the rest of your post about wanting Doc to have more personality. That baffles me. Who cares. He shows emotion, both on and off the field. He LOVES YOUR University with every ounce of his being. Why that is not enough for someone like you confuses me.
And lets see how the excitement level of bball is this year, because it is a different team, with different skill sets. We are going to win a lot of games by scoring in the 60's and low 70's. Why? Because Dan will be adjusting to his talent, like Doc has been this year.
I look forward to see how you view that come late February. Seeing how many times I read, "he is doing what it takes to win games."
As for the rest of your post about wanting Doc to have more personality. That baffles me. Who cares. He shows emotion, both on and off the field. He LOVES YOUR University with every ounce of his being. Why that is not enough for someone like you confuses me.
And lets see how the excitement level of bball is this year, because it is a different team, with different skill sets. We are going to win a lot of games by scoring in the 60's and low 70's. Why? Because Dan will be adjusting to his talent, like Doc has been this year.
I look forward to see how you view that come late February. Seeing how many times I read, "he is doing what it takes to win games."
And CUSA football goes to what major or even mediocre bowl games? CUSA bowl games are generally done by Dec. 22.
YOU and the other apologists are the ones trying to drive a wedge between football and basketball. If someone who enjoys the basketball team says something critical about John or the football team you immediately jump in with “not fair, double standard, Danny always gets a pass.”
Something “working” doesn’t mean it didn’t cause damage. The stadium reseating is a prime example. It, in theory, raised more money for the vision campaign. It also alienated a lot of long term fans, some of which no longer come to games or only attend select games instead of religiously purchasing season tickets.
Ok, that is driving a wedge? Explain to me how it is not a double standard.
Doc wins a game by scoring 20 points and being boring, and he is a boring coach.
BBall wins a game over Robert Morris scoring far fewer points than we are used to and he is adjusting.
I agree he is adjusting. I want a coach that will coach what they have. IT seems that both do that quite well.
I defend both programs to everyone. Why should I be defending it to our own fans is what makes no sense.
The EXACT same comments that I get labelled an "apologist" for on football, is ok on bball.
It is, for the most part, Bball fans that have a problem rooting for both coaches right now. You cant find many football fans that do not cheer unconditionally for bball as well.
And that sucks that that happened. But if it didnt, we wouldnt be where we are now facility wise. "fans" who left because their feelings were hurt over having to move a row or two, may not have been as big a fan as they thought. And I dont thing "a lot" of fans turned out to be a very large number.
By RPI rankings as of today. CUSA is 19th out of 32 basketball D1 conferences. Football is 10th out of 10. Actually 11th because the Independents are ahead of us as well.
Yes, that is what’s driving the wedge. There’s no double standard because they are being judged on entertainment value. John’s performance being similar to Dan’s doesn’t mean it provides the same entertainment/fans experience. Nobody is obligated to be happy with John just because they are happy with Dan or vice versa.
Real Time RPI has us ahead of the MAC in football.
And I'm sorry, but I don't think being ranked ahead of basketball conferences like the SWAC, Atlantic Sun and the Southland should be something we crow about. If there was an FBS/FCS split in D1 basketball those conferences would assuredly be FCS.
Including ALL D1 football conferences, CUSA is ranked 10th out of 24. Again, should we crow about being ranked ahead of a conference like the Pioneer in football (where they play without scholarships, i believe)? Of course not.
I'm not defending C-USA basketball or C-USA football - I think both leagues stink. Just pointing out that trying to make an argument that one is better than the other is kind of silly.
There were other ways to do it. Why didn’t they try a voluntary auction? Seat incumbents are incentivized because they can raise money for the program without writing a check, prizes(autographed football, helmet, etc) for seat batches that sell over a certain price(or by price ranking), both seller and buyer get points for the selling price etc. The seller could even bid and or win their seats back. This way no one is forced to move from their longtime game day home and the people that are moved feel good about it because they volunteered and know they helped the program.
I mean who cares. Really. It's not like we can all collectively just decide to move conferences. CUSA sucks. We all know it. Let's stop dwelling on it. We're not going anywhere. Some of you all get so worked up over this matter like you can influence the situation if you complain about it enough.
So let me get this straight: you watch a lot of games, so you know what conference is the best out of C-USA, the MAC, and the Sun Belt. It is impossible to watch even a quarter of all of the games of each conference, as many overlap and are on at the same time, but you know since you "watch a lot of games."
Yet a system that takes into account every single game in college football - Sagarin, Massey, RPI, etc. - without any bias, doesn't know.
Got it.
And the rankings that have been posted in here have absolutely no relevance to what channel/outlet the games are broadcast on. Sagarin doesn't care if a game is on ABC or isn't anywhere to be seen.
If anyone here really things that Sunbelt conference football is better than C-USA football, you're simply not watching enough of their games. The same holds true for the MAC.
Using averages to rank conferences is like all use of statistics, they tell no information about mean, mode, or median. They show no impact for outliers, etc. Just watch the games, you'l form your own opinions. Quit finding statistics they don't represent the actual play of the games.
Using averages to rank conferences is like all use of statistics, they tell no information about mean, mode, or median. They show no impact for outliers, etc. Just watch the games, you'l form your own opinions. Quit finding statistics they don't represent the actual play of the games.
Wrong. Sagarin has rankings of the conferences using central mean, simple average, and tri-mean, and a "win 50%" statistical ranking.
You're out of your mind. The Sun Belt is substantially better than C-USA this year, and it isn't even close.
The two best teams in both conferences are in the Sun Belt. Three of the four worst teams are in C-USA. For C-USA to even come close to matching the Sun Belt, it would need to have a far superior middle pack of teams.
Just dont' agree, have you seen USA; we have no one as bad as USA; I'd also say that about Coastal Carolina. And I'm not even sure Appy State is any better than LaTech or us; we won't know until we play.
Coastal stomped our conference champ last season, and this season they have as many P5 wins as our entire conference...ONE. https://goccusports.com/sports/football/schedule/2019
Now that we are playing “bigs” basketball and slowing it down, wonder if that will drive fans away, especially if we don’t win and do well in the league. That’s a concern I have.
USA is awful. That's why I said that the Sun Belt has one out of the four worst teams between the two conferences. So if there are four awful teams between the conferences and one is in the Sun Belt, how many does that leave in C-USA?
USA is bad, but they aren't as bad as ODU or UTEP.
USA actually was able to dominate a bad FCS team. ODU's only win came on a late TD in the 4th to beat Norfolk State. That Coastal team you claimed was worse than anyone in C-USA? They beat Norfolk State 46-7.
UTEP's lone win was by 2 points on a 4th quarter field goal against a bad FCS team. They have lost every other game, except for one, by double digits. USA showed they are far superior to a bad FCS (UTEP didn't show that) and have actually been competitive in some of their FBS games; they lost in 2OTs against an FBS, lost by 2 points against another FBS, were competitive against their P5 opponent.
Again, USA is bad, but claiming they are worse than ODU or UTEP? Not a chance.
Your claim about USA being worse than anything in C-USA is wrong.
But then you made an even more foolish claim by saying that CCU is worse than anything in C-USA.
ODU: 1-9 with their only win being a late 24-21 win over Norfolk State.
CCU: 4-6 which includes a 46-7 win against that same Norfolk State.
Besides Coastal's 4 wins, one being against a P5, they also lost in 3OT to Georgia Southern and lost by 1 point to Arkansas State. Already, they have a far superior record than ODU, but they could very easily be 6-4 right now.
And you think Coastal is worse than anything C-USA has? Stop.
Coastal is better than at least four C-USA teams.
But let's look at Sagarin (again, his system doesn't base rankings on what network a game is on). According to Sagarin, C-USA has seven of the worst nine teams between the two conferences.
And your claim that Appalachian State isn't better than Marshall? Again, stop. App State is 9-1 with wins at North Carolina and at South Carolina. That's the same South Carolina team that beat Georgia, Kentucky, etc.
And Louisiana is better, too.
I can put my dog in front of 12 televisions all day running non-stop football games, but it wouldn't mean he knows what he's barking about when it comes to football.
So now you're calling me a dog. Wow, very powerful and persuasive. We don't, and apparently won't, play these teams so we'll never know. My opinion hasn't changed, and apparently your's has either. But I don't think you're a dog, something else maybe, but not an animal.
I bleed green through and through and through.
I am telling you the Sunbelt is better if football. It is not close this year. If we went into the Sunbelt we would have to STEP up our program and that is no joke.
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