Daily News Record (covers JMU): Want realignment answers? First, let's ask the right questions

[Chris McLaughlin]

Interesting piece here.

Couple takeaways:

* Writer claims the SBC told JMU and App State they were were by far the most visible and valuable brands in the Sun Belt.
* If Memphis and Tulane leave the AAC the SBC's leadership is poised to make a push to move the SBC up the G5 food chain.
* ECU is a top target and would listen if the tv money worked out (or dried up with the AAC).
* UTSA, South Florida and UAB mentioned as other SBC expansion targets from the AAC.

METTLEN: Want realignment answers? First, let's ask the right questions

Insert your Monty Python or Mark Twain reference here, but apparently, the Pac-12 wasn’t dead after all.

www.dnronline.com

 

[PeytonwGill]

It’s crazy how far we’ve fallen. 10-15 years ago no one would’ve ever wanted App State or JMU over us.

 

[Herdguy04]

It’s crazy how far we’ve fallen. 10-15 years ago no one would’ve ever wanted App State or JMU over us.

Except MU got selected to join the premiere G5 conference...to add to the brand established by one of the teams you mentioned...🙄🙄🙄

If you really want to just dwell on life 15 years ago, log off of here.

 

[mlblack16.]

Except MU got selected to join the premiere G5 conference...to add to the brand established by one of the teams you mentioned...🙄🙄🙄

If you really want to just dwell on life 15 years ago, log off of here.

So expressing disappointment in not even being on the same level as our conference mates (JMU and App) is dwelling on life 15 years ago?

 

[johns1124]

Interesting piece here.

Couple takeaways:

* Writer claims the SBC told JMU and App State they were were by far the most visible and valuable brands in the Sun Belt.

METTLEN: Want realignment answers? First, let's ask the right questions

Insert your Monty Python or Mark Twain reference here, but apparently, the Pac-12 wasn’t dead after all.

www.dnronline.com

Already having a nice discussion about this on the Sunbelt board. No one, including myself, is buying it.

According to the author:

I'm going to get more in depth on that in another article, but the Sun Belt presented a very detailed report on this with data it got from a third-party firm. The total media value of the conference -- looking at all platforms -- was $892 milllion. Almost a quarter of that was JMU and App, both with valuations more than $100 million. There wasn't another school at more than $73 million.
Which I responded:

Based on? What ESPN value? Potential value? You are not telling me much. All platforms meaning?
I have a hard time seeing that any one media outlet will give JMU,App, or anyone in the Sunbelt 100m a year.

From SI: Notre Dame currently receives around $26 million annually from a combination of its TV revenue from NBC and its ACC agreement.
He is basing it on:

Based on a lot of different factors. Essentially the value of the media exposure generated by each football program and Sun Belt football as a league. There is a formula that factors in viewership of live games, other coverage on TV, coverage online and in print, social media, etc.

 

[herdfan429]

App isn't helping themselves right now on espn. Down 35-7 10 min left in 3rd

 

[PeytonwGill]

Except MU got selected to join the premiere G5 conference...to add to the brand established by one of the teams you mentioned...🙄🙄🙄

If you really want to just dwell on life 15 years ago, log off of here.

15 years ago I was 7 and had no bills, so yes please.

Also, 15 years ago, App State nor JMU were FBS, so being mentioned as lower than them is embarassing

 

[Herdguy04]

So expressing disappointment in not even being on the same level as our conference mates (JMU and App) is dwelling on life 15 years ago?

Ole Gill is crying about how JMU and App State were somehow below MU 15 years ago. He was probably right...15 years ago.

MU was never going to remain on top forever, given the leadership in all facets, the economy of the city/state, and the landscape of college football...it was inevitable MU would bow out. Plenty of teams will not be relevant by their standards in, not even 5 years from now.
He makes it as some sort of catastrophe, I see it as a shift in the dynamics of the sport and college in general.
Can MU come back?
Sure. Just apply it to now and not 15 years ago.

 

[MUMAN3419]

15 years ago I was 7 and had no bills, so yes please.

Also, 15 years ago, App State nor JMU were FBS, so being mentioned as lower than them is embarassing

It does suck. We went from “We play for chips’” to a 6-6 season is unacceptable tweet. If those who built the program and started winning big had NIL it is hard to tell where MU would be.

Those guys didn’t make excuses. They built stadiums, bent the rules and WON. They wouldn’t have been whining and making excuses.


Rant over

 

[PeytonwGill]

It does suck. We went from “We play for chips’” to a 6-6 season is unacceptable tweet. If those who built the program and started winning big had NIL it is hard to tell where MU would be.

Those guys didn’t make excuses. They built stadiums, bent the rules and WON. They wouldn’t have been whining and making excuses.


Rant over

Give me a rule bending coach who makes us win. Who cares what other people think of us. Winning cures all

 

[The Real SamC]

* Writer claims the SBC told JMU and App State they were were by far the most visible and valuable brands in the Sun Belt.

JMU is trying to convert from a I-AA power to a good story in I-A. Something only one school has ever done. Marshall.

Can JMU follow in our footsteps? Sure. But it takes a lot of skill and courage. The main difference is that JMU has a very wealthy state to draw upon for its mega-subsidized sports program.

ASU is a nice school in a pretty part of the country, and is a nice second choice for kids UNC and NCSU turned down. Probably, in lifestyle terms, the best choice. But that is all it is.

* If Memphis and Tulane leave the AAC the SBC's leadership is poised to make a push to move the SBC up the G5 food chain.

Since the SBC is already the top conference in the Group of Six, that will be hard to do. The AAC is a joke.

* ECU is a top target and would listen if the tv money worked out (or dried up with the AAC).

ECU never belonged in the AAC. The AAC is based on a basic lie. Being IN a big city is the same as being SIGNIFICANT IN a big city. This just isn't true, but whatever, ECU isn't in a big city in the first place. It is much more of a fit in the SBC.

But ECU has the worst case of "little brother" I have ever seen. No matter what they do, all their fans can think about is UNC and NCSU. They will never understand that they are never going to get in the ACC, and that 20 or 30 miles from Greenville, the unwashed locals that never darkened the door of any college are going to be wearing baby blue, even if UNC is 3-9 and ECU is 10-2.

* UTSA, South Florida and UAB mentioned as other SBC expansion targets from the AAC

UTSA. Pass. Classic AAC school. In a city. Insignificant in said city.
USF. Same.
UAB. After Auburn and Alabama suck 99.999999% of all the possible college football fandom energy out of the state of Alabama, you really want to fight USA, Jacksonville State, and the HBCUs for the remainder? Pass.

 

[The Real SamC]

MU was never going to remain on top forever, given the leadership in all facets, the economy of the city/state, and the landscape of college football...it was inevitable MU would bow out.

Great excuse making. Winners win. Losers make excuses. MU's rise from ashes to glory was fueled by 100s of people, from great coaches and administrators, to ordinary fans and students that would not let this program die and wanted to see it grow.

It was killed by KO Marcum. There was nothing "inevitable" about any of it. Don't hire Marcum and Snyder and continue to win as before.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Great excuse making. Winners win. Losers make excuses. MU's rise from ashes to glory was fueled by 100s of people, from great coaches and administrators, to ordinary fans and students that would not let this program die and wanted to see it grow.

It was killed by KO Marcum. There was nothing "inevitable" about any of it. Don't hire Marcum and Snyder and continue to win as before.

I'm not mad at the Snyder hire in retrospect. Pruett left us little time and he kinds of read off like Pruett did on his resume. Former player who was the DC for a recent national champion(LB Coach when the title was won).

However giving him an extension without ever posting a winning season was horrible decision. Then our AD going on TV during one of our ESPN games with a list of all-time great coaches that started off slow claiming Snyder was on that same trajectory was asinine.

Marshall's mentality once Marcum took over went from "We Play for Championships" to "We do with what we got."

Somewhere along the line we decided to adopt the mentality of just accepting our lot instead of always being unsatisfied and wanting to get better and be better than everyone else. Listen to the players from the 90s and early 00s talk. They were absolutely offended by the thought of a team believing they could win.

I also partly blame the bowl system. In I-AA play it's win or go home. That was the same in the first years of the MAC. If you wanted to play in a bowl game you had to win your conference. It would have been nice for the 2nd place team to get one too, but the point is you had to push yourself every day and every season. Now 5-7 teams are going in because they have higher APRs. Coaches like Doc can become complacent because they can just fall back on "we made/won a bowl game."

 

[The Real SamC]

I also partly blame the bowl system. In I-AA play it's win or go home. That was the same in the first years of the MAC. If you wanted to play in a bowl game you had to win your conference. It would have been nice for the 2nd place team to get one too, but the point is you had to push yourself every day and every season. Now 5-7 teams are going in because they have higher APRs. Coaches like Doc can become complacent because they can just fall back on "we made/won a bowl game."

And this is why playoffs are such a bad idea. ESPN is the focus of evil in the sports world.

Give me a sheet of notebook paper. I can write down 20 teams and, leaving out the sacrificial lamb Group of Six team, I will have no worse than a 95% accuracy rate in who makes the playoffs. I can write down 10 teams and have every team that will win the national championship. Not for this year. Forever.

For decades teams like, leaving out MU, but places like UK or WVU, have sold their fanbases on going to, or winning, a bowl game as a good season. Now 132 losers, one winner. And, unlike the NFL (sorry Browns fans) where it is cyclical and eventually its your turn to be good, it doesn't work that way at all in college. There are 100 teams, including the MAJORITY of the P4, that will NEVER make the playoffs. Never. Never ever.

Selling "we were 8-4 and won the Gator Bowl" is a much easier sell than "we were 8-4 and missed the playoffs, again".

Evil.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

And this is why playoffs are such a bad idea. ESPN is the focus of evil in the sports world.

Give me a sheet of notebook paper. I can write down 20 teams and, leaving out the sacrificial lamb Group of Six team, I will have no worse than a 95% accuracy rate in who makes the playoffs. I can write down 10 teams and have every team that will win the national championship. Not for this year. Forever.

For decades teams like, leaving out MU, but places like UK or WVU, have sold their fanbases on going to, or winning, a bowl game as a good season. Now 132 losers, one winner. And, unlike the NFL (sorry Browns fans) where it is cyclical and eventually its your turn to be good, it doesn't work that way at all in college. There are 100 teams, including the MAJORITY of the P4, that will NEVER make the playoffs. Never. Never ever.

Selling "we were 8-4 and won the Gator Bowl" is a much easier sell than "we were 8-4 and missed the playoffs, again".

Evil.

Disagree. A true playoff would be best. That's how we did it in I-AA and how every level of football except FBS does it.

No stupid committees. Either we're all playing on the same level or we aren't.

 

[Herdguy04]

Disagree. A true playoff would be best. That's how we did it in I-AA and how every level of football except FBS does it.

No stupid committees. Either we're all playing on the same level or we aren't.

Nobody is on the same level anymore...Even if all conference champions from all FBS conferences got in and that was it, you're still going to have a team loaded with multi-million dollar athletes and coaches, dismantle everyone below them.
You may have a single upset in there, but the majority of the time, the big Power conferences will win it.

 

[Herdguy04]

Give me a sheet of notebook paper. I can write down 20 teams and, leaving out the sacrificial lamb Group of Six team, I will have no worse than a 95% accuracy rate in who makes the playoffs. I can write down 10 teams and have every team that will win the national championship. Not for this year. Forever.

You have a keyboard and an account on here...

Go for it.

 

[Herdguy04]

I'm not mad at the Snyder hire in retrospect. Pruett left us little time and he kinds of read off like Pruett did on his resume. Former player who was the DC for a recent national champion(LB Coach when the title was won).

However giving him an extension without ever posting a winning season was horrible decision. Then our AD going on TV during one of our ESPN games with a list of all-time great coaches that started off slow claiming Snyder was on that same trajectory was asinine.

Marshall's mentality once Marcum took over went from "We Play for Championships" to "We do with what we got."

Somewhere along the line we decided to adopt the mentality of just accepting our lot instead of always being unsatisfied and wanting to get better and be better than everyone else. Listen to the players from the 90s and early 00s talk. They were absolutely offended by the thought of a team believing they could win.

I also partly blame the bowl system. In I-AA play it's win or go home. That was the same in the first years of the MAC. If you wanted to play in a bowl game you had to win your conference. It would have been nice for the 2nd place team to get one too, but the point is you had to push yourself every day and every season. Now 5-7 teams are going in because they have higher APRs. Coaches like Doc can become complacent because they can just fall back on "we made/won a bowl game."

Pruett left MU high and dry. Snyder, as you said, looked like a good hire, but it was evident he wasn't HC material.

The biggest problem was the leadership at MU during that time...even with a terrible football team, MU never marketed itself well with the exposure the movie gave us, which would have been a great time to take advantage of being a relevant thing.

Instead, MU's leadership just expected people to know who MU is, and flock to enroll.

Marcum was an absolute cancer to the AD...he legitimately never saw MU as being anything more than a stepping stone for coaches and didn't buy into the idea that MU could grow.
That was also Snyder's mentality and I think it worsened when he got his extension whereas if he were HC at OSU, he'd have been canned fast.

 

[i am herdman]

Cheating is legal now and we are not very good at it.

 

[ohio herd]

I say Marshall University is on fire right now in a good way. Look at sports facilities. A new baseball stadium, a new softball field for the girls. A new stadium for soccer and a national championship banner hanging up is incredible for us. Of course our basketball and football facilities are average by P4 standards but among our peers I say competitive. We have one of the best leaders from the business world Brad Smith who is leading the school with great vision and is paving the way to a sustainable future for Marshall. New Cyber Security building and Brad Smith facility are only a down payment of what is still yet to come. We are not taking a backseat to anyone in the SBC.

 

[elginherd]

JMU is trying to convert from a I-AA power to a good story in I-A. Something only one school has ever done. Marshall.

Can JMU follow in our footsteps? Sure. But it takes a lot of skill and courage. The main difference is that JMU has a very wealthy state to draw upon for its mega-subsidized sports program.

ASU is a nice school in a pretty part of the country, and is a nice second choice for kids UNC and NCSU turned down. Probably, in lifestyle terms, the best choice. But that is all it is.

Since the SBC is already the top conference in the Group of Six, that will be hard to do. The AAC is a joke.

ECU never belonged in the AAC. The AAC is based on a basic lie. Being IN a big city is the same as being SIGNIFICANT IN a big city. This just isn't true, but whatever, ECU isn't in a big city in the first place. It is much more of a fit in the SBC.

But ECU has the worst case of "little brother" I have ever seen. No matter what they do, all their fans can think about is UNC and NCSU. They will never understand that they are never going to get in the ACC, and that 20 or 30 miles from Greenville, the unwashed locals that never darkened the door of any college are going to be wearing baby blue, even if UNC is 3-9 and ECU is 10-2.

UTSA. Pass. Classic AAC school. In a city. Insignificant in said city.
USF. Same.
UAB. After Auburn and Alabama suck 99.999999% of all the possible college football fandom energy out of the state of Alabama, you really want to fight USA, Jacksonville State, and the HBCUs for the remainder? Pass.

Boise State seemed to do it pretty well...actually a lot better than the Herd did.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Boise State seemed to do it pretty well...actually a lot better than the Herd did.

We can always second guess but if KO would have hired Kueck ( who Pruett reportedly wanted the job to go to) instead of Snyder, we may have rolled a few more years. jmo.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I blame that fat ass kicker from UCF! Matthew McC in the house, it’s all but over….shit.

 

[riflearm2]

JMU is trying to convert from a I-AA power to a good story in I-A. Something only one school has ever done. Marshall.

You are as delusional as that moron who kept saying that Marshall wasn’t going to have a baseball stadium for the next 20 years.

 

[AtlantaHerdFan]

Ole Gill is crying about how JMU and App State were somehow below MU 15 years ago. He was probably right...15 years ago.

MU was never going to remain on top forever, given the leadership in all facets, the economy of the city/state, and the landscape of college football...it was inevitable MU would bow out. Plenty of teams will not be relevant by their standards in, not even 5 years from now.
He makes it as some sort of catastrophe, I see it as a shift in the dynamics of the sport and college in general.
Can MU come back?
Sure. Just apply it to now and not 15 years ago.

well said

 

[riflearm2]

Of course our basketball and football facilities are average by P4 standards.

Average? Marshall’s football and basketball facilities May combine to be the worst in the country compared to P4 schools, which isn’t surprising, considering the money difference.

We have one of the best leaders from the business world Brad Smith

I prefer that my leaders have ethics and succeed the right way.

Cheating is legal now and we are not very good at it.

We should be taught by your wife. She does a stellar job of getting away with it.

l

Give me a sheet of notebook paper. I can write down 20 teams and, leaving out the sacrificial lamb Group of Six team, I will have no worse than a 95% accuracy rate in who makes the playoffs.

You’re a moron.

I can write down 10 teams and have every team that will win the national championship. Not for this year. Forever.

You’re an even bigger moron. Over the past 36 years, there has been 21 different national champions. Over the past dozen years, there has been seven different national champions. Over the past six years, there has been five different national champions.

Sure, I’m just about every year, you can pick 10 teams who you think will win the title that year and have a damn good chance at that team being one of your 10. But stats show that your claim is wildly bogus.

 

[MUMAN3419]

Average? Marshall’s football and basketball facilities May combine to be the worst in the country compared to P4 schools, which isn’t surprising, considering the money difference.


I prefer that my leaders have ethics and succeed the right way.


We should be taught by your wife. She does a stellar job of getting away with it.





You’re a moron.


You’re an even bigger moron. Over the past 36 years, there has been 21 different national champions. Over the past dozen years, there has been seven different national champions. Over the past six years, there has been five different national champions.

Sure, I’m just about every year, you can pick 10 teams who you think will win the title that year and have a damn good chance at that team being one of your 10. But stats show that your claim is wildly bogus.

You got a link about where our facilities “may” rank vs P4 schools?

 

[herdfan429]

We can always second guess but if KO would have hired Kueck ( who Pruett reportedly wanted the job to go to) instead of Snyder, we may have rolled a few more years. jmo.

Pruetts last team was dysfunctional kueck wouldn't have been able to reign them in either

 

[Herdguy04]

We can always second guess but if KO would have hired Kueck ( who Pruett reportedly wanted the job to go to) instead of Snyder, we may have rolled a few more years. jmo.

Given Kueck's inability to call offenses, I doubt he'd have done better.

 

[herdfan06]

Cheating is legal now and we are not very good at it.

Your political posts are supposed to be made over on Pullman Square.

 

[PeytonwGill]

I say Marshall University is on fire right now in a good way. Look at sports facilities. A new baseball stadium, a new softball field for the girls. A new stadium for soccer and a national championship banner hanging up is incredible for us. Of course our basketball and football facilities are average by P4 standards but among our peers I say competitive. We have one of the best leaders from the business world Brad Smith who is leading the school with great vision and is paving the way to a sustainable future for Marshall. New Cyber Security building and Brad Smith facility are only a down payment of what is still yet to come. We are not taking a backseat to anyone in the SBC.

Wait, you mean the two sports that have any chance of generating a profit are the ones that are bad? How does that constitute the whole AD being "on fire"?

 

[riflearm2]

You got a link about where our facilities “may” rank vs P4 schools?

Yeah, the link is common sense and vast experience.

If school A receives $50MM annually for sports and school B received $5 MM, it’s a safe bet that school A can invest in far better facilities and coaching salaries.

It’s not something Marshall should feel shame for. It’s just common sense.

I’ve seen the facilities for 2/3 of the P4 schools, including almost all of the new ones (SMU, Cincinnati, BYU, Houston, UCF), and Marshall doesn’t measure up to them in both sports combined and would probably finish last among just that group, let alone the long established P4s.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Given Kueck's inability to call offenses, I doubt he'd have done better.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. Snyder was totally unprepared to be an HC. The Gibsons dangling money in front of KO got him the job.

 

[ohio herd]

Wait, you mean the two sports that have any chance of generating a profit are the ones that are bad? How does that constitute the whole AD being "on fire"?

For real, I didn’t say that. Try again. I said in comparison to say Ohio State/ Texas they are average. I know you are young but for those of us who have followed Marshall for entire life to finally see a baseball facility for both men /women is huge. Both are first class. With soccer I’m not sure what else you could expect. A national power and a first class facility. The school is being very strategic under the leadership of Brad Smith. One of our online programs was just ranked #3 in the nation. So yes we are on fire!

 

[The Real SamC]

I say Marshall University is on fire right now in a good way. Look at sports facilities. A new baseball stadium,

100% built by Big Jim Justice. We drew an inside straight on that one. The only MU alumni to be governor in living memory, and probably the biggest (no pun intended) sports fan since Lying Joe, is governor at the exact time the US of A federal government gave out billions in C-word money that could be spent on virtually anything. Big Jim was probably the only person that would have built a MU baseball field with it. If just one of those stars doesn't align, no baseball field. Just like the many dozens of "done deal" baseball projects.

Thanks Big Jim.

a new softball field for the girls.

Built in 2008. 16 years ago. I'm sure the 100 or so people that really care about women's softball enjoy it, and its fine. But 16 years ago isn't "new".

A new stadium for soccer and a national championship banner hanging up is incredible for us.

What was the name of the guy who built the field, almost 100% out of state economic development funds, and hired the genius coach?

Mike something or other, right? Whatever happened to him?

Of course our basketball and football facilities are average by P4 standards but among our peers I say competitive.

The football stadium is fine. At 35 years old, it needs some freshening up and repairs, but its fine.

The IPF (again who was the guy that got that built, its right on the tip of my tongue, Mike, umm, umm, Mike something) is as good as anybodys.

The basketball arena, which is 43 years old, had problems from the beginning, due to budget cuts and WVU jealous maneuvers, but, its not worth discussing, as long as a third of the seats are tarped off due to unsaleability. This is a token effort.

We have one of the best leaders from the business world Brad Smith who is leading the school with great vision and is paving the way to a sustainable future for Marshall. New Cyber Security building and Brad Smith facility are only a down payment of what is still yet to come.

You will get no argument from me about Marshall academics. BS is an awesome leader and is doing a great job (which gets much harder when the governor changes). MU's rise to its level from where it was just a few decades ago is truly remarkable, and BS's ideas are tremendous.

That, especially in the era of pay the players, has little to do with football or even basketball.

We are not taking a backseat to anyone in the SBC.

We do not have to, we choose to. We continue to employ CS and CH. We make a token effort at men's basketball.

We employ CS and CH. We make a token effort at men's basketball. All of those things can change and we, yes, could be right at the top of the SBC, which means the top of the Group of Six.

 

[Herdguy04]

100% built by Big Jim Justice

Believes in the existence of C-USA being a formidable conference...

Denies the existence of Alma Mater...

 

[The Real SamC]

Knows history.

Gov. Justice announces $13.8 million to complete new Marshall baseball stadium

Office of the Governor - Jim Justice

governor.wv.gov

 

[19MU88]

Well at least Sam realizes we have baseball stadium.

 

[The Real SamC]

Sure do.

Thanks Big Jim.

Otherwise, we would just be here arguing the same old argument. THIS TIME they really mean it. Until they didn't.

 

[Herdguy04]

Well at least Sam realizes we have baseball stadium.

He just denies it at the same time.