Do our votes even matter anymore?

[ohio herd]

I just read this online. I was thinking that if this is true then that is not right IMO.The Dems are cheating for Hillary and then I was thinking about the GOP saying we will steal the nomination from Trump at the convention cause we don't like him why even vote? Seems that the Elites pick and choose who we end up with anymore.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...argely-back-clinton-sanders-article-1.2581729

 

[herdit44]

if you live in wv, especially no.

 

[herdfan429]

I just read this online. I was thinking that if this is true then that is not right IMO. and then I was thinking about the GOP saying we will steal the nomination from Trump at the convention cause we don't like him why even vote? Seems that the Elites pick and choose who we end up with anymore.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/pol...argely-back-clinton-sanders-article-1.2581729

If trump doesn't get the required number of delegates to win nomination how would it be stealing nomination from him?

 

[i am herdman]

If trump doesn't get the required number of delegates to win nomination how would it be stealing nomination from him?

Because of the will of the people in the party.

The Republican establishment would rather lose the election to Clinton than let Trump be the nominee.

 

[Walden Pond]

So really, they're just voting for Hillary. Picking anybody other than Trump or Cruz should he miraculously get more delegates before the convention is admitting that they're really Democrats who wanted Hillary all along.

They wanted to trot out Jeb Bush to play nice and gladhand Hillary to the White House while he pretended to somewhat oppose her.

 

[herdfan429]

Because of the will of the people in the party.

The Republican establishment would rather lose the election to Clinton than let Trump be the nominee.

Except everyone knew going in that I order to win the nomination the candidate would need to have 1237 votes. You are basically telling the founders to screw off since they created a republic instead of direct democracy.

 

[ohio herd]

If trump doesn't get the required number of delegates to win nomination how would it be stealing nomination from him?

so lets say after the entire establishment works to defeat him he ends up a few votes short. Lets say they choose Cruz or Kasich who he defeats soundly.Why is the Gov of Ohio still in the race? He can not win. All he may do is pull a few votes from Trump. Or they send a Paul Ryan instead. I'll tell you this I didn't vote for Trump in the primary. But if they pull this I will vote for the Dems. I am sick and tired of these snots trying to determine outcomes.

 

[ohio herd]

Except everyone knew going in that I order to win the nomination the candidate would need to have 1237 votes. You are basically telling the founders to screw off since they created a republic instead of direct democracy.

the founders did not come up with that the GOP did.Go ahead split the vote and let Hilliary in BRILLIANT!!!!! #GOPDUMBESTPARTYEVER

 

[Walden Pond]

Damn straight. If the GOP is now about giving shit to losers, then I no longer support it. Handing things to people who didn't earn them is Democrat politics.

If our only choice is between Democrats and Democrats pretending to be something else, might as well vote for Democrats or say to hell with the whole thing.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

The Constitution gives no instruction on parties choosing their nominee.

I don't know why people are pissed. It is their own fault if they do not understand the rules.

 

[andy4theherd]

Except everyone knew going in that I order to win the nomination the candidate would need to have 1237 votes. You are basically telling the founders to screw off since they created a republic instead of direct democracy.

the founding fathers had nothing to do with the current Primary system and would likely be disgusted by it...

"The United States Constitution has never specified the process; political parties have developed their own procedures over time."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary

 

[herdfan429]

so lets say after the entire establishment works to defeat him he ends up a few votes short. Lets say they choose Cruz or Kasich who he defeats soundly.Why is the Gov of Ohio still in the race? He can not win. All he may do is pull a few votes from Trump. Or they send a Paul Ryan instead. I'll tell you this I didn't vote for Trump in the primary. But if they pull this I will vote for the Dems. I am sick and tired of these snots trying to determine outcomes.

You're bitching about the GOP primary have you paid any attention to the democrats way of doing things? Hillary had the nomination wrapped before the primary even started because of "super delegates". But please vote for Hillary. Maybe you and herdman can join her campaign.

 

[herdfan429]

the founding fathers had nothing to do with the current Primary system and would likely be disgusted by it...

"The United States Constitution has never specified the process; political parties have developed their own procedures over time."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_primary

My statement about the founding fathers was geared more towards the electoral college and the fact that we the people really don't have a voice anyway and never have

 

[Walden Pond]

I don't know why people are pissed.

Oh yeah, nothing to see here. The GOP with their lame bunch of shitty candidates. We finally get one that's not a stiff and the snobs at headquarters don't like it.

They shouldn't have let him in if they didn't want him to win. Should have known it was like letting a fox loose in the hen house. The rest of the GOP candidates are hens. Weak, pathetic hens for Hillary to pluck on that stage. They're automatic byes for the bitch.

 

[andy4theherd]

My statement about the founding fathers was geared more towards the electoral college and the fact that we the people really don't have a voice anyway and never have

one of the main arguments against a "popular vote" is recounting in a close election (see Bush vs Gore in Florida mess and multiply that times several million). in this day and age of super technology why is it beyond our reach to implement a national online vote? the majority of people file their taxes online... why note vote that way? I imagine the money saved in killing off the current system would be more than enough to build a bullet proof system. would be interesting to see how the nation as a whole changed by going with a popular vote...

 

[Walden Pond]

I can imagine ISIS hacking into it and electing the San Bernadino shooter's long lost sidekick. NBC News has a big fancy picture of Al Shabaab Malawacki Taliban III smiling with big bold print 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

 

[andy4theherd]

I can imagine ISIS hacking into it and electing the San Bernadino shooter's long lost sidekick. NBC News has a big fancy picture of Al Shabaab Malawacki Taliban III smiling with big bold print 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

how would that be any different than our current Pres?

 

[ohio herd]

You're bitching about the GOP primary have you paid any attention to the democrats way of doing things? Hillary had the nomination wrapped before the primary even started because of "super delegates". But please vote for Hillary. Maybe you and herdman can join her campaign.

If you read my link you would know that I said they were even worse

 

[herdfan429]

If you read my link you would know that I said they were even worse

Yet you would support that system. Yeah that makes a ton of sense

 

[trailherd]

one of the main arguments against a "popular vote" is recounting in a close election (see Bush vs Gore in Florida mess and multiply that times several million). in this day and age of super technology why is it beyond our reach to implement a national online vote? the majority of people file their taxes online... why note vote that way? I imagine the money saved in killing off the current system would be more than enough to build a bullet proof system. would be interesting to see how the nation as a whole changed by going with a popular vote...

The electoral college was not designed as a convenience against recounting. It was designed as an intentional Constitutional limitation on direct democracy. The main arguments for it was to allow the electors to decide against those that they believed were unqualified instead of allowing the popular vote to determine the Presidency. It doesn't really work that way anymore.

What the Republican party is talking about doing in its nomination process is similar in form to how our Republic was designed.

 

[wisemaniac]

The GOP not listening to those who vote Republican isn't anything new. In fact, it's the reason Trump has risen in popularity. It's a giant middle finger to a party that for years has talked conservative but acted liberal, gotten involved in social issues they shouldn't have, & sold out its members hoping illegal immigrants will become the blacks of our party. If the people supporting Trump feel like the nomination was unfairly awarded to someone else, you can kiss the GOP goodbye.

 

[herdfan429]

It's not a bad thing for the parties to be shaken up every now and then. And you can vote for trump until the cows come home but at the end of the day it's about winning elections and trump has about as good a shot at winning elections as extras "employees" do of getting a raise

 

[GreenDuke]

The Constitution gives no instruction on parties choosing their nominee.

I don't know why people are pissed. It is their own fault if they do not understand the rules.

I agree, lot of Americans are getting a civics lesson this election season. Many folks are paying attention, maybe for the first time.

 

[i am herdman]

Except everyone knew going in that I order to win the nomination the candidate would need to have 1237 votes. You are basically telling the founders to screw off since they created a republic instead of direct democracy.

The founders? The RNC elite are not the founders of the country and didn't set the rules of the RNC or DNC. The DNC has the super delegates to ensure they get who they want.

I don't think you have the right reference.

If the RNC is stupid enough to let a guy get more votes than another guy but pull out their own guy then they are beyond idiots because they will destroy their party.

 

[i am herdman]

My statement about the founding fathers was geared more towards the electoral college and the fact that we the people really don't have a voice anyway and never have

Well, yes we do. The key is to win the big states for POTUS.

The House of Representatives was set up to be the great equalizer and in the Senate each state is equal in terms of Senators.

 

[i am herdman]

The GOP not listening to those who vote Republican isn't anything new. In fact, it's the reason Trump has risen in popularity. It's a giant middle finger to a party that for years has talked conservative but acted liberal, gotten involved in social issues they shouldn't have, & sold out its members hoping illegal immigrants will become the blacks of our party. If the people supporting Trump feel like the nomination was unfairly awarded to someone else, you can kiss the GOP goodbye.

Bingo. They can kiss my a** if they do that.

 

[Walden Pond]

That's right. All these people on here talking civics, history, founding fathers, etc. are elitist snobs who think us dumb rednecks don't count.

You only count in this country if you agree to the Democrat fairy tale utopian welfare pot melting pot bullshit. These Rubio lovers on here just wanted a candidate to kiss Hillary's ass on her way in. They vote Republican just to go eat at some fancy restaurant or something.

 

[extragreen]

You're bitching about the GOP primary have you paid any attention to the democrats way of doing things? Hillary had the nomination wrapped before the primary even started because of "super delegates". But please vote for Hillary. Maybe you and herdman can join her campaign.

Super delegates have never determined a democratic primary.

 

[extragreen]

Oh yeah, nothing to see here. The GOP with their lame bunch of shitty candidates. We finally get one that's not a stiff and the snobs at headquarters don't like it.

They shouldn't have let him in if they didn't want him to win. Should have known it was like letting a fox loose in the hen house. The rest of the GOP candidates are hens. Weak, pathetic hens for Hillary to pluck on that stage. They're automatic byes for the bitch.

trump is no fox in the hen house. He's just a turkey with money.

 

[extragreen]

how would that be any different than our current Pres?

Perhaps not being muslim and not being a terrorist. Plus he's been elected over your last 2 big dogs you voted for.

 

[extragreen]

It's not a bad thing for the parties to be shaken up every now and then. And you can vote for trump until the cows come home but at the end of the day it's about winning elections and trump has about as good a shot at winning elections as extras "employees" do of getting a raise

Or as good a shot as your family getting out of the basement.

 

[extragreen]

That's right. All these people on here talking civics, history, founding fathers, etc. are elitist snobs who think us dumb rednecks don't count.

You only count in this country if you agree to the Democrat fairy tale utopian welfare pot melting pot bullshit. These Rubio lovers on here just wanted a candidate to kiss Hillary's ass on her way in. They vote Republican just to go eat at some fancy restaurant or something.

Yet, you vote for an elitist snob who counts on his voters being dumb rednecks.

 

[herdfan429]

Or as good a shot as your family getting out of the basement.

I treat my family much better than you treat your part employee brother

 

[wisemaniac]

Bingo. They can kiss my a** if they do that.

I don't think everyone who is supporting Bernie over Hillary is a skinny-jeans wearing, unemployed hipster who cries because people make fun of their face piercings. But I do think the majority of his supporters worship at the foot of government & they see Hillary as a terribly corrupt & distrustful entity who has been using them for decades to advance her own interests, which are mainly attainable through America's political structure. He's rising because against her, he is Bizarro-Hillary.

But Trump's rise isn't against one person, it's against every other mo-fo on the stage (with the exception of Carson) who have railed against, but ultimately supported, the left in this country. I don't think everyone supporting Trump agrees with him. I would be shocked if those supporting him even agree with him 50%. But he's the best way voters on the right have to show their anger with the party. The left showing up & getting into these violent & insane protests at his speeches doesn't hurt him. And the more they happen, the more free press he gets out of it. His supporters are pissed at the GOP right now - they're not fans of Hillary but she's not the target at the moment. If it gets to the point he can focus solely on her, expect him to get even more free press cause it's gonna be a shitshow.

The GOP establishment seems to be treating Trump as a school yard bully who happened to find a sport coat. They don't give a shit why the other kids are drawn to him, they figure he's a once-every- 30 year problem & they just want him to go away.

 

[ohio herd]

Yet you would support that system. Yeah that makes a ton of sense

No I wouldn't , what is wrong with you? I was trying to make a simple point. Let me try again. The Democrats are cheating outright. The GOP may not be cheating but they are trying to usurp what is taking place at the polls to get the establishment candidate. I just want a fair election to take place at all levels. What don't you get? I can't stand HC or BS. I was just trying to make a point that many of us are going to be ticked off if the GOP tries to undermine the will of the voters. Now do you get it?

 

[raleighherdfan]

It's not a bad thing for the parties to be shaken up every now and then. And you can vote for trump until the cows come home but at the end of the day it's about winning elections and trump has about as good a shot at winning elections as extras "employees" do of getting a raise

I understand what you are saying here. The issue I have is that the RNC in elections past, virtually guaranteed a potential Trump like candidate at some point because of their incompetence. What this election has shown is that the RNC really is not conservative at all (seeing as how they also ostracized Cruz), despite what Dems claim. For the RNC, Its about maintaining their own power structure and they are more than willing to lose another presidential election as long as they can keep certain names and faces in the Washington club. IMO, the ONLY shot repubs had at a chance to win a national, based on all the other candidates that came forward in the Repub primaries, was run a character like Trump.

With that said, Trump had a great opportunity to explain the disaster of leadership over the last 8 years. He has failed to do that and failed to lay out a specific reason to actually get people to vote for him. He could just as easily dictated the media cycle talking about Obama/Hillary incompetence as he has Cruz's wife, but chose not to. That opens up a whole new line of discussion that cant be covered easily.

 

[i am herdman]

I don't think everyone who is supporting Bernie over Hillary is a skinny-jeans wearing, unemployed hipster who cries because people make fun of their face piercings. But I do think the majority of his supporters worship at the foot of government & they see Hillary as a terribly corrupt & distrustful entity who has been using them for decades to advance her own interests, which are mainly attainable through America's political structure. He's rising because against her, he is Bizarro-Hillary.

But Trump's rise isn't against one person, it's against every other mo-fo on the stage (with the exception of Carson) who have railed against, but ultimately supported, the left in this country. I don't think everyone supporting Trump agrees with him. I would be shocked if those supporting him even agree with him 50%. But he's the best way voters on the right have to show their anger with the party. The left showing up & getting into these violent & insane protests at his speeches doesn't hurt him. And the more they happen, the more free press he gets out of it. His supporters are pissed at the GOP right now - they're not fans of Hillary but she's not the target at the moment. If it gets to the point he can focus solely on her, expect him to get even more free press cause it's gonna be a shitshow.

The GOP establishment seems to be treating Trump as a school yard bully who happened to find a sport coat. They don't give a shit why the other kids are drawn to him, they figure he's a once-every- 30 year problem & they just want him to go away.

YOu are correct. I don't give a damn about Hillary right now. I want the GOP to take notice. That is the biggest prize to me.

And, if he could beat her it would be icing on the cake. But, first we have to fire the GOP establishment.

 

[extragreen]

I treat my family much better than you treat your part employee brother

Let them out of the basement so I can ask them.

 

[Walden Pond]

Yet, you vote for an elitist snob who counts on his voters being dumb rednecks.

Who do you think would be a better GOP candidate?

 

[Walden Pond]

And, if he could beat her it would be icing on the cake. But, first we have to fire the GOP establishment.

That's right. Hell, if we're gonna lose at least go down swinging. If I go watch the Reds play the Dodgers this year and the Reds decide to lay their bats on the field and take a nap instead of at least try to play, then they can go to hell. I'm not supporting that. It's not the American way.