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Fire Doc...

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redsfan5590

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Dec 14, 2010
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Then what? We are now in that "lul-period" between the end of our games and the bowl game and there is not much to talk about outside of basketball (and that's boring).

So I am curious, when we fire Doc who are the head coaching candidates as you all see them? Personally, I think Doc should stay although I will admit if he continues to fire Legg it's going to be his down fall.
 
My only problem with retaining Doc at this time is that there are a lot of really good candidates out there who will be moving around as their head coaches move. Of course it seems to be the issue at this time each year, so maybe missing out on this pool isn't as impactful as it seems to me.

Here's my issue with head coaches in college football: if you can't identify head coaching potential amoung their assistance they aren't getting their jobs done. In Doc's case, only one (Legg) has been considered as head coaching material since he's been here. That speaks volume to me.

Now I've got to add that I believe the reason is we (MU) don't have the funds to pay those up and coming assistants.
 
Some of you guys don't understand that if we lose Doc we will probably be in a worse situation then we are now... keep Doc in the house get rid of legg give new guy a year or two and then start cutting them out.. we absolutely can not afford to lose Doc.. I'd be scared to see who would end up with the job.. let it go.. no reason to get on here and gripe you see what it's done the last 2-3 years
 
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redsfan5590 said:
Then what? We are now in that "lul-period" between the end of our games and the bowl game and there is not much to talk about outside of basketball (and that's boring).

So I am curious, when we fire Doc who are the head coaching candidates as you all see them? Personally, I think Doc should stay although I will admit if he continues to fire Legg it's going to be his down fall.
Click to expand...
Not gonna fire Doc. That is how the buddy system works there apparently.
 
whf2 said:
My only problem with retaining Doc at this time is that there are a lot of really good candidates out there who will be moving around as their head coaches move. Of course it seems to be the issue at this time each year, so maybe missing out on this pool isn't as impactful as it seems to me.

Here's my issue with head coaches in college football: if you can't identify head coaching potential amoung their assistance they aren't getting their jobs done. In Doc's case, only one (Legg) has been considered as head coaching material since he's been here. That speaks volume to me.

Now I've got to add that I believe the reason is we (MU) don't have the funds to pay those up and coming assistants.
Click to expand...

The HC position Legg was interviewed for was the only one we know of for sure happening. How do we not know he hasn't been called by other people and extended an offer?
Maybe he's just happy here. Same with Heater. Maybe both of them are fine with where they are.
You really wanna sit there and tell me if Legg did not try to find another job, he wouldn't actually be hired? Legg's not the best OC in the world, but he is far, far from the worst. He, Doc, Heater, all of them, if they wanted, could easily find work elsewhere. SOMEBODY would hire them.
I just don't think they're wanting to go elsewhere...just because a bigger school calls you, doesn't mean you have to take the job.

The one thing good about Doc is he's not a bad coach and he will give the program some form of stability. If he got fired this year, we would find a younger HC who only thinks about himself, and does just enough for making the next move. It could be a 10 win season, or a 7 win season, he's just gotta show someone bigger, that he can win..just enough to get him out of here...and for the MU program itself, because people complained like crazy already, 7 wins won't cut it, but it will for the ex-HC and whatever bigger program is calling.
I genuinely believe Doc is more about the program than he is himself, which cannot be said about the younger head coaches these days, it's frankly, the opposite.
 
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All4TheHerd said:
The HC position Legg was interviewed for was the only one we know of for sure happening. How do we not know he hasn't been called by other people and extended an offer?
Maybe he's just happy here. Same with Heater. Maybe both of them are fine with where they are.
You really wanna sit there and tell me if Legg did not try to find another job, he wouldn't actually be hired? Legg's not the best OC in the world, but he is far, far from the worst. He, Doc, Heater, all of them, if they wanted, could easily find work elsewhere. SOMEBODY would hire them.
I just don't think they're wanting to go elsewhere...just because a bigger school calls you, doesn't mean you have to take the job.

The one thing good about Doc is he's not a bad coach and he will give the program some form of stability. If he got fired this year, we would find a younger HC who only thinks about himself, and does just enough for making the next move. It could be a 10 win season, or a 7 win season, he's just gotta show someone bigger, that he can win..just enough to get him out of here...and for the MU program itself, because people complained like crazy already, 7 wins won't cut it, but it will for the ex-HC and whatever bigger program is calling.
I genuinely believe Doc is more about the program than he is himself, which cannot be said about the younger head coaches these days, it's frankly, the opposite.
Click to expand...
We already have a HC who thinks only about himself and friends. is satisfied with 7 wins. The coaches should be happy. They're still here. Not looking for a new job. There's a win, win mentality, win just enough No adrenaline flowing here in the program. There is for the players , not faulting the team. But the fan in me or fans as a whole do not get it. Football is entertainment. Plain fact. Nothing to pump us up. Very bland. Players are pumped. But nothing transpired to the field. It's a win , lose. Where did high octave football go?
Obviously, you're a employee or friend or family of the program and it shows. You are privy to info we are not. Your arguments reek of administrative goals. Since you joined a few months ago you insight is keen and sharp. That doesn't happen , per chance. You have an agenda. Doesn't work for me.
 
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Timtnt9 said:
We already have a HC who thinks only about himself and friends. is satisfied with 7 wins. The coaches should be happy. They're still here. Not looking for a new job. There's a win, win mentality, win just enough No adrenaline flowing here in the program. There is for the players , not faulting the team. But the fan in me or fans as a whole do not get it. Football is entertainment. Plain fact. Nothing to pump us up. Very bland. Players are pumped. But nothing transpired to the field. It's a win , lose. Where did high octave football go?
Obviously, you're a employee or friend or family of the program and it shows. You are privy to info we are not. Your arguments reek of administrative goals. Since you joined a few months ago you insight is keen and sharp. That doesn't happen , per chance. You have an agenda. Doesn't work for me.
Click to expand...

Wow tim, with all that you used virtually no facts at all and anything you attempted to pass off as such, is wrong.
No, I don't work for MU. Go ahead and believe that, and even guess where that would be (lol, I do get a kick out of reading such stupidity).
No, I simply am saying something I have seen happen to other programs and with a fanbase such as yourself, which is fickle, at this point, couldn't handle.
Do you really think Doc is happy with 7 wins? Do you honestly think anyone on the team, players and coaches, are happy with it? If so, 7 wins would be all Doc got in his time here. He hasn't, he's gotten more than that.
I really don't know what is dumber, your assumption I am somehow working for MU's AD or you thinking Doc is happy with 7 wins. I mean, you honestly cannot be that dumb to believe yourself.
 
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Id love to see double digit wins next year but let's be honest, it doesn't look good. We have a QB that will be a senior who one would think would have a good grip on the offense and would not be making freshman mistakes with turnovers and bad throws. We have an anemic offensive coordinator who has had a couple great seasons due to Cato and company that made him look great. Changes should be made somewhere. If you really think what you saw on offense this year was progress then you don't know football. Plain and simple, if it weren't for our defense bailing us out and winning a couple games we would be sitting home again this year.
 
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Not going to happen, well documented no $$$$ to buy out contract, so THINK OF SOMETHING NEW TO DISCUSS !!!

This whole thing is like a Ground Hog Day thread....
 
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All4TheHerd said:
7 wins is certainly not the norm for this program, however, given last season's total meltdown, 7 wins is good for this season and this season only.
I expect double digit wins next year.
Click to expand...

5 of 8 years the football team has won 7 or less games, and the average number of wins for a season is 7.5 wins. So how is it not the norm?
 
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Sash19 said:
How dare you speak that way...unless you have your checkbook open and your green blinding glasses on, he that shall not be named doesn't need or respect your thoughts on him and will tell you as such. Carry on....
Click to expand...
The fans(customers) will have the final say.
 
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extragreen said:
5 of 8 years the football team has won 7 or less games, and the average number of wins for a season is 7.5 wins. So how is it not the norm?
Click to expand...

I dismiss the 2 years he had without the players he wanted. But that would push it to 8 wins.
What exactly is the bar then for you? Wins wise?
 
THUNDER8718 said:
Id love to see double digit wins next year but let's be honest, it doesn't look good. We have a QB that will be a senior who one would think would have a good grip on the offense and would not be making freshman mistakes with turnovers and bad throws. We have an anemic offensive coordinator who has had a couple great seasons due to Cato and company that made him look great. Changes should be made somewhere. If you really think what you saw on offense this year was progress then you don't know football. Plain and simple, if it weren't for our defense bailing us out and winning a couple games we would be sitting home again this year.
Click to expand...

Kind of like knowing that the team wouldn't improve on 3 wins, but here they are, in a bowl game against a MWC opponent...
 
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All4TheHerd said:
Kind of like knowing that the team wouldn't improve on 3 wins, but here they are, in a bowl game against a MWC opponent...
Click to expand...
Don't get me wrong, I am glad we are in a bowl game and very happy with the opponent. I think we got one of the best opponents for our conference bowl games. I just don't have faith in Bill Legg. And majority of the fans agree.
 
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THUNDER8718 said:
Don't get me wrong, I am glad we are in a bowl game and very happy with the opponent. I think we got one of the best opponents for our conference bowl games. I just don't have faith in Bill Legg. And majority of the fans agree.
Click to expand...

I can see why fans are concerned, but lets not forget that when Marshall was on the big stage, they did quite well. In fact, I believe it's what made ESPN choose us over UTSA...the time we were on TV or anything ESPN related, we put on an offensive clinic.

Here's my issue.
What do the fans want? Do they want to win or do they want to "be entertained" because at Marshall, it's tough to have both. I agree that Legg has had some flat out terrible schemes, but also the offense HAS clicked at times and in games that were huge. It has looked like a thing of beauty, especially in Cincy and MTSU, both games nobody seemed optimistic about our chances.

I feel if you're going to have an entertaining offense you're also going to be more prone to losing or making errors. Kiffin did real well with his offense but his risk taking and gambling on 4th downs cost him an INT that, had we scored off of it (I don't think we did) then we woulda won that game. The same can be said for many programs, but at the expense of entertaining people its become a norm of sorts.
 
"The fans(customers) will have the final say."

Who are these Fans you keep talking about?
 
All4TheHerd said:
I can see why fans are concerned, but lets not forget that when Marshall was on the big stage, they did quite well. In fact, I believe it's what made ESPN choose us over UTSA...the time we were on TV or anything ESPN related, we put on an offensive clinic.

Here's my issue.
What do the fans want? Do they want to win or do they want to "be entertained" because at Marshall, it's tough to have both. I agree that Legg has had some flat out terrible schemes, but also the offense HAS clicked at times and in games that were huge. It has looked like a thing of beauty, especially in Cincy and MTSU, both games nobody seemed optimistic about our chances.

I feel if you're going to have an entertaining offense you're also going to be more prone to losing or making errors. Kiffin did real well with his offense but his risk taking and gambling on 4th downs cost him an INT that, had we scored off of it (I don't think we did) then we woulda won that game. The same can be said for many programs, but at the expense of entertaining people its become a norm of sorts.
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? First of all we lost to FAU. Almost doesn't count. FAU won the conference championship and I think won 8 games in a row. Year one with Kiffin.

MU played pretty entertaining ball for 20 years and were very successful.

Fans want to win. You can be boring and win. For example, Alabama plays pretty conservative because they have the horses to do so. But, fans do like being mediocre or bad and being boring. That is what we are. 7-5 and boring.
 
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Just to be clear, I like Doc and don’t think we should be thinking of firing him. I started this thread for Those who think we should fire him to be able to flesh out who they think we should hire.

Not surprisingly the Doc haters have presented 0 ideas of a new coach.

This thread is a perfect example of the portion of the fan base: completely negative, with no positive ideas
 
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redsfan5590 said:
Just to be clear, I like Doc and don’t think we should be thinking of firing him. I started this thread for Those who think we should fire him to be able to flesh out who they think we should hire.

Not surprisingly the Doc haters have presented 0 ideas of a new coach.

This thread is a perfect example of the portion of the fan base: completely negative, with no positive ideas
Click to expand...

When you have a positive idea, it gets shot down with negative predictions. It's like MU fans are perpetually depressed...and make no efforts to try to see something positive, then wonder why they're so depressed.
 
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All4TheHerd said:
I can see why fans are concerned, but lets not forget that when Marshall was on the big stage, they did quite well. In fact, I believe it's what made ESPN choose us over UTSA...the time we were on TV or anything ESPN related, we put on an offensive clinic.

Here's my issue.
What do the fans want? Do they want to win or do they want to "be entertained" because at Marshall, it's tough to have both. I agree that Legg has had some flat out terrible schemes, but also the offense HAS clicked at times and in games that were huge. It has looked like a thing of beauty, especially in Cincy and MTSU, both games nobody seemed optimistic about our chances.

I feel if you're going to have an entertaining offense you're also going to be more prone to losing or making errors. Kiffin did real well with his offense but his risk taking and gambling on 4th downs cost him an INT that, had we scored off of it (I don't think we did) then we woulda won that game. The same can be said for many programs, but at the expense of entertaining people its become a norm of sorts.[/QUOTE
Click to expand...
All4TheHerd said:
I can see why fans are concerned, but lets not forget that when Marshall was on the big stage, they did quite well. In fact, I believe it's what made ESPN choose us over UTSA...the time we were on TV or anything ESPN related, we put on an offensive clinic.

Here's my issue.
What do the fans want? Do they want to win or do they want to "be entertained" because at Marshall, it's tough to have both. I agree that Legg has had some flat out terrible schemes, but also the offense HAS clicked at times and in games that were huge. It has looked like a thing of beauty, especially in Cincy and MTSU, both games nobody seemed optimistic about our chances.

I feel if you're going to have an entertaining offense you're also going to be more prone to losing or making errors. Kiffin did real well with his offense but his risk taking and gambling on 4th downs cost him an INT that, had we scored off of it (I don't think we did) then we woulda won that game. The same can be said for many programs, but at the expense of entertaining people its become a norm of sorts.
Click to expand...

I agree with you about ESPN wanting us other than UTSA. And with your question about what the fans want. We can be both winning and entertaining. Im glad you asked this because you made me realize it's easy to have both! We've done it with Cato, Pennington and Leftwitch. Right there is our answer. Although Pennington was good enough to burn defenses with his arm. It's Litton, he obviously does not fit our scheme, he struggles at check downs and EYE balls his receivers we all know this. I don't like Legg but maybe just maybe if we had/have another QB that can fit this system " Green" then it's a very good possibility that we can look great again on offense. For instance, Green is a scrambler and can run. Litton has ran the ball maybe 10 times this year. If teams know our QB is not a threat to run the ball then they have no worry about the QB and can load the box. Especially when our QB makes bad throws and eyes his receivers. I'd love to see another QB in an actual game, hell it can't hurt and maybe we could have some spark on this offense that we've been wanting for a long time. If Cato "the scrambling make anything happen QB" can do it then why not another QB like him!
 
redsfan5590 said:
Just to be clear, I like Doc and don’t think we should be thinking of firing him. I started this thread for Those who think we should fire him to be able to flesh out who they think we should hire.

Not surprisingly the Doc haters have presented 0 ideas of a new coach.

This thread is a perfect example of the portion of the fan base: completely negative, with no positive ideas
Click to expand...
The first step would be to first mandate that Doc mandate serious changes on the staff and philosophy of his game plan. Tell him his program is stagnant, stale, and out dated. Many fans might accept that but if he keeps doing the same thing then he is fate is on him.

Second, would be to set a time line of winning conference championships and state what expectations are. 1 in 8 years sucks. Either we are about winning or we are not.

Reality is it would be financially easier to get rid of Hamrick first. Then, Doc's safety net is gone. Things might take care of themselves then.
 
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I think everything depends on the bowl game. If we do well then Hamrick will come out and say a 8 and 5 season shows improvement and that last season was just a let down. Doc will stay and so will Legg. Litton will also stay the starting quarterback although Doc will stay it's up to spring ball. So get ready for the speech and for everything to stay the same. This will satisfy Hamrick and his special group of Doc supporters.
 
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dennie.heck said:
I think everything depends on the bowl game. If we do well then Hamrick will come out and say a 8 and 5 season shows improvement and that last season was just a let down. Doc will stay and so will Legg. Litton will also stay the starting quarterback although Doc will stay it's up to spring ball. So get ready for the speech and for everything to stay the same. This will satisfy Hamrick and his special group of Doc supporters.
Click to expand...

Well...is 8-5 an improvement from 3-9?
To me, records only tell a portion of the story.
In 2016, Marshall was essentially out of the games in the 2nd half. That spoke alot about just how bad we were.
This season, even with losses, Marshall was never out of the game and at least remained competitive.
Litton not being thrown through a table by his TE, is improvement. The team, being more cohesive in their units, is improvement.
MU beating WKU, is improvement.

Can MU do better? Absolutely. But we can't ignore some of the positives that have happened this season.

But is Hamrick wrong about 8-5 being an improvement?
 
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THUNDER8718 said:
I agree with you about ESPN wanting us other than UTSA. And with your question about what the fans want. We can be both winning and entertaining. Im glad you asked this because you made me realize it's easy to have both! We've done it with Cato, Pennington and Leftwitch. Right there is our answer. Although Pennington was good enough to burn defenses with his arm. It's Litton, he obviously does not fit our scheme, he struggles at check downs and EYE balls his receivers we all know this. I don't like Legg but maybe just maybe if we had/have another QB that can fit this system " Green" then it's a very good possibility that we can look great again on offense. For instance, Green is a scrambler and can run. Litton has ran the ball maybe 10 times this year. If teams know our QB is not a threat to run the ball then they have no worry about the QB and can load the box. Especially when our QB makes bad throws and eyes his receivers. I'd love to see another QB in an actual game, hell it can't hurt and maybe we could have some spark on this offense that we've been wanting for a long time. If Cato "the scrambling make anything happen QB" can do it then why not another QB like him!
Click to expand...

If its Litton not running when he is supposed to, I will 100% support benching him. It also would show Legg isn't as bad as everyone thinks and its just Litton not cooperating. I doubt thats the case but who knows.

Also, the fans would not accept Doc or Legg winning as anything legitimate or genuine at this point. MU isn't going to have anything you listed because people will find ways to not credit such a thing properly.
Its interesting you didn't mention Kueck as the OC for the exciting years. Was it all on the QB? Then again, coaching any of those 3 makes a total idiot look amazingly smart.
If MU does adapt an exciting and winning product, like in 2014, will fans actually admit good things about Doc or just credit it with th QB?
 
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