Golf

[TwolfHerdfan]

the same can be said about pool. millions play it throughout bars across the country, but very few are actually good at it. does that mean it is a sport? no. it is much more a skill.



some of you guys are mind-blowing. cycling takes a high level of cardiovascular ability, strength (check out a legitimate biker's legs), and balance. it is much less reliant on a skill and much more reliant on athletic ability. golf is much more reliant on a skill and much less on athletic ability.




this seems to be going over your head. sure, anybody can run down the court and pick up a ball and shoot it while jumping, just like anyone can go out and hit a golf ball. the basketball player with no athletic ability is going to struggle getting up and down the court fast enough, struggle with strength boxing out and getting through screens, struggle jumping to get rebounds or get off shots, and struggle with just about every aspect of the game. an unathletic but skilled basketball player would mean somebody who is a strong dribbler and great shooter. but, if he isnt athletic, he wont amount to shit because he cant get free from a defender to get open for a shot, cant get his shot off because he cant jump, cant play defense, and his dribbling ability is meaningless since he isnt fast enough to beat anyone off the dribble. compare that to an unathletic but highly skilled golfer . . . a highly skilled golfer, regardless of his athletic ability, is going to be pretty damn good. why? because it requires far more skill and far less athletic ability than sports.




the first paragraph has nothing to do with golf being a sport other than that you are biased in favor of it.

the second paragraph . . . charles barkley is a highly athletic individual. almost all NBA players are. he is/was a 10 handicap and a pretty strong golfer. many NBA players would make great NFL prospects because both sports require a high level of athletic ability. michael jordan was able to play AA baseball. he, contrary to popular belief, wasnt awful. he wasnt a star, but his athletic ability allowed him to be decent and hit around .225 i believe while doing alright in the field and on the basepaths.

without much practice, would any of those guys (MLB, NBA, NFL) be good at golf? absolutely not. why? because their immense athletic abilities are almost entirely useless in golf, an activity which relies on very little athletic ability.

If Barkley is a 10 handicap, I am Jordan Spieth. As with most threads on this board, its a difference of opinion. What one person thinks requires athletic ability or skill, the other thinks not so much.
I played baseball and was pretty good at it. (Had a tryout with the Mets in 1980 in St. Petersburg). I loved the game but to be honest, it doesn't take much athletic ability. More so, hand/eye coordination. jmo.

Guys like Bo Jackson - the dude was gifted beyond belief to excel at multiple sports.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

Its takes no athletic skill whatsoever. The machine does all the work. Same with horse racing, the animal does all the work. Jockeys are not athletes.

You just described driving on the I-5 in LA! lol!

 

[CockyHerd]

Bottom line......If you don't think golf is a sport or athletic contest, you've never competed at a reasonable high level. Riding in a cart, drinking beer and shooting 95.....You suck and you've never competed over 54 or 72 holes, walking and trying to stay focused for 4-5 hours at a time.

If you don't think NASCAR is a sport or that the drivers are athletes, you've never driven a stock car. Give it a try, Petty Racing Experience gives you the opportunity at a number of actual NASCAR tracks. I promise you'll change your tune.

 

[riflearm2]

you've never competed over 54 or 72 holes, walking and trying to stay focused for 4-5 hours at a time.
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This is a really sad argument.

So, having to walk 4-5 hours at a leisurely pace and stay focused for brief moments of that time constitutes a sport?

Is frisbee golf a sport?

What if I set up chess tables on each hole of a golf course. I would have to walk around for 4-5 hours and stay focused on the chess matches every time I reached a hole. I would make 3-5 plays on each board before moving on to the next hole. Sport?

 

[CockyHerd]

This is a really sad argument.

So, having to walk 4-5 hours at a leisurely pace and stay focused for brief moments of that time constitutes a sport?

Is frisbee golf a sport?

What if I set up chess tables on each hole of a golf course. I would have to walk around for 4-5 hours and stay focused on the chess matches every time I reached a hole. I would make 3-5 plays on each board before moving on to the next hole. Sport?

Just stop.......You have no idea what you are talking about.

I failed to mention staying focused under pressure and hitting a golf ball 325 yards or within 10 feet of the hole from 190 yards. You suck at the sport and have no idea how good these guys are.

Besides, the argument has often been, are golfers and NASCAR Drivers athletes? I personally believe they are but there is no argument that both are sports.

 

[riflearm2]

Rifle, you glossed over the assertion that golf and pitching are similar by making it about baseball in general by discussing hitting, running, etc..

It isn't glossing over it. I explained how that comparison is ludicrous. You're taking the only part of golf which requires physical movement (each swing) and trying to compare it to only one part of baseball. Baseball encompasses so much more physically and athletically than just throwing a ball. Golf doesn't encompass anything more physical than swinging the club.

The level of physical output by a pitcher in 7 innings is not much different than a golfer in 18 holes. The pitcher may run occasionally to cover first or back up a play and repeat their motion 100 or so times. A golfer will walk 4 miles or so, up and down hills, and repeat their motion 70 times or so.

If you truly believe that, there is no reason to discuss this anymore.

But, I'll entertain and enlighten.

An MLB pitcher will throw approximately 100 pitches (not counting warming up each inning) through 7 innings. A PGA golfer may hit the ball approximately 72 times during 18 holes. Already, there is a significant percentage difference between the two. However, a high percentage of those 72 swings come from the short game. Sorry, but putting and the short game are not physically difficult feats of athleticism. Skill? Yes. So, the most physically demanding shots during a PGA round make up what . . . no more than 36 shots? That's barely a third of what an MLB pitcher will throw in 7 innings.

Compare that to throwing pitches in a live game. Every pitch is physically demanding. You can't throw a ball 85 MPH - 100 MPH without a lot of physical exertion.

Almost every single person on this board could go out and play 18 holes/72 shots over a 4-5 hour span. Hell, many of you guys do that every week. How many on this board could go throw 100 pitches as hard as they can over 2 hours? They would be absolutely drained. Everything on them would be sore for days. There is a good chance some would be injured.

Throwing a baseball as a pitcher is far more taxing on the body than swinging a golf club, especially considering half of those swings are in the short game.

Why do you think pitchers have a far higher rate of injury than golfers? The physical toll pitching 100 balls takes is much more than swinging a golf club 72 times, especially since half of those swings are in the short game.

This, like you mentioned, doesn't even factor in the other athletic things a pitcher must do in a game. Further, as I have mentioned, this is simply comparing one single aspect of the sport of baseball with the entire game of golf. There is much more to baseba which requires even more athleticism than we are discussing. There is absolutely no more athleticism needed in golf than what we are discussing- hitting the golf.

I'm sick of refuting numerous comments. I have made many valid points, yet nobody is refuting any of them . . . other athletes being great at other sports, because they take high levels of athleticism . . . but those same athletes will be awful at golf because it relies much more on a skill than athleticism.

 

[riflearm2]

Just stop.......You have no idea what you are talking about.

I failed to mention staying focused under pressure and hitting a golf ball 325 yards or within 10 feet of the hole from 190 yards. You suck at the sport and have no idea how good these guys are.
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Again, a pathetic attempt.

Not being good at golf does not invalidate my argument. I'm not a great speed swimmer, but that doesnt mean I can't identity that sport as taking a good amount of athletic ability.

Your argument now is that golf takes a level of staying focused under high pressure? Is this a joke? Being a porn star takes immense focus while under pressure. Being in the national spelling bee takes a high level of focus while being under pressure. That focus under pressure does not require a single hint of athletic ability. That makes your argument shit.

Hitting a golf ball extremely close to the pin from a far distance is very difficult. I acknowledge that. Not being able to do it doesn't minimize my knowledge of what athleticism is though. Shooting a person in the head from 300 yards away also is very difficult and requires immense focus and skill. That doesn't make a sharpshooter an athlete. It is a very difficult skill which has very little to do with athleticism. The same holds true for golf. It is a very difficult skill which requires a ton of practice to master, but which doesn't require much athletic ability.

You just cannot argue otherwise in a decent manner.

 

[MichiganHerd]

Why do you think pitchers have a far higher rate of injury than golfers?

I would like to address this question, but before doing so, can you state whether Eldrick can be included in the discussion?

 

[CockyHerd]

Now you've totally lost your way.....

As I quoted above:
Sport -

1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.

It's clearly a sport........Everyone is entitled to their own opinion whether they are athletes.

athlete
noun ath·lete \ˈath-ˌlēt, ÷ˈa-thə-ˌlēt\
: a person who is trained in or good at sports, games, or exercises that require physical skill and strength.

According to the above.....Golfers fit the definition.

Besides, you lost all credibility when you said Charles Barkley was/is a 10 Handicap.

 

[CockyHerd]

And to address the crux of your argument.......Davis Love III is an outlier.

At 51 he is the 3rd oldest player ever to win a PGA Tour event.....Clearly not common place.

 

[CockyHerd]

Rifle.....Head over to the "Good Sermon" thread......That's an argument we can agree on and it's crickets over there because none of the Religious Right Wingers want to talk about Churches and the Almighty Dollar.

 

[riflearm2]

I would like to address this question, but before doing so, can you state whether Eldrick can be included in the discussion?

Sure he can. We all know tiger milks injuries whenever he has a bad opening day performance at an event, so feel free to use his injuries (as just one example, so be sure to look at all golf injuries).

Besides, you lost all credibility when you said Charles Barkley was/is a 10 Handicap.

You lost any chance at gaining credibility when you didn't agree with my words. Don't take my word for it, take espn, sports illustrated, golf digest, cybergolf, golf.com, etc. as proof:

http://sports.espn.go.com/golf/news/story?id=3948087

http://www.si.com/extra-mustard/201...know-about-charles-barkley-who-turns-50-today

http://news.cybergolf.com/golf_news/barkley_expounds_on_golf_the_nba_his_swing_issues

http://www.golf.com/ap-news/tigers-coach-seeks-fix-barkleys-golf-swing

 

[CockyHerd]

Key there is......"Once". But since golf is not an athletic sport, I can't imagine how he slipped from a "reported" 10 to a 30+ handicap.

Steph Curry is scratch.......Many Major League pitchers are very good players as the athletic move is very similar to pitching and/or batting. Same with NHL players. Most of the top NFL golfers are/were kickers as the kicking motion is similar to the golf swing.

 

[riflearm2]

Key there is......"Once". But since golf is not an athletic sport, I can't imagine how he slipped from a "reported" 10 to a 30+ handicap.
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No, key there is that I claimed he was a 10 handicap and you mocked that claim . . . twice. Now that many reputable sources support it, you're trying to argue something else.

One of the articles discusses how injuries from basketball/getting old, changing his swing, and not playing as much as he used to hurt his golf game.

As with just about anything, athletic or not, as you get older your capabilities tend to diminish.

Steph Curry is scratch.......Many Major League pitchers are very good players as the athletic move is very similar to pitching and/or batting. Same with NHL players. Most of the top NFL golfers are/were kickers as the kicking motion is similar to the golf swing.

This is just pure bullshit.

Many MLB pitchers are very good golfers because they have time to play all year. As starting MLB pitchers, they pitch once every 5 or 6 days. Spending a few hours in the sun during the day doesn't hurt their performance. They can still get their hour of work in each day pre-game.

If golf is very similar in moves to pitching/batting, as you claimed, why are pitchers far better than hitters at golf? It's because starting pitchers have far more time to practice the skill during the season. Many MLB clubs actually prohibit non-pitchers from playing during the season because it is bad for their baseball swing. It's different mechanics.

This season, Matt Harvey was blasted by mets fans twice for things he put on his Instagram (flying private with some other pitchers to a golf course on an away trip and thanking trump for setting up a game of golf at his course). Check out Matt Harvey's Instagram and see how frequently he golfs on away trips and off days with other pitchers and their bullpen catcher. You don't see MLB position players doing that during the season. That is why pitchers are good golfers; they can practice the skill much more than position players.

NFL kickers supposedly being better at golf than other NFL players has much more to do with other factors than your claim that they use similar mechanics.

NFL kickers are almost entirely white. Youth participation in golf is overwhelmingly white. The rest of the NFL is overwhelmingly black. If white youths play far more often, than white adults will have had more time to play the game. Like in baseball, kickers have far less training needed than position players in the NFL. That allows them more time to practice. Also, bigger, muscle bound athletes have a harder time with a golf and baseball swing. Kickers tend to be smaller in stature/muscles than NFL players.

 

[CockyHerd]

No, key there is that I claimed he was a 10 handicap and you mocked that claim . . . twice. Now that many reputable sources support it, you're trying to argue something else.

One of the articles discusses how injuries from basketball/getting old, changing his swing, and not playing as much as he used to hurt his golf game.

As with just about anything, athletic or not, as you get older your capabilities tend to diminish.



This is just pure bullshit.

Many MLB pitchers are very good golfers because they have time to play all year. As starting MLB pitchers, they pitch once every 5 or 6 days. Spending a few hours in the sun during the day doesn't hurt their performance. They can still get their hour of work in each day pre-game.

If golf is very similar in moves to pitching/batting, as you claimed, why are pitchers far better than hitters at golf? It's because starting pitchers have far more time to practice the skill during the season. Many MLB clubs actually prohibit non-pitchers from playing during the season because it is bad for their baseball swing. It's different mechanics.

This season, Matt Harvey was blasted by mets fans twice for things he put on his Instagram (flying private with some other pitchers to a golf course on an away trip and thanking trump for setting up a game of golf at his course). Check out Matt Harvey's Instagram and see how frequently he golfs on away trips and off days with other pitchers and their bullpen catcher. You don't see MLB position players doing that during the season. That is why pitchers are good golfers; they can practice the skill much more than position players.

NFL kickers supposedly being better at golf than other NFL players has much more to do with other factors than your claim that they use similar mechanics.

NFL kickers are almost entirely white. Youth participation in golf is overwhelmingly white. The rest of the NFL is overwhelmingly black. If white youths play far more often, than white adults will have had more time to play the game. Like in baseball, kickers have far less training needed than position players in the NFL. That allows them more time to practice. Also, bigger, muscle bound athletes have a harder time with a golf and baseball swing. Kickers tend to be smaller in stature/muscles than NFL players.

And what does any of the above have to do with the fact that a golf swing is an athletic move?

Everyone knows that pitchers become better players due to the time they are able to spend on the game. Not a newsflash........It also has a lot to do with athletes understanding of weight transfer in golf.......Same goes for QB's in football. Both throwing motions give the player an understanding of weight transfer and lag. Both key elements in the golf swing. MLB hitters often struggle with golf because of the lack of practice early and the slight but key differences in the swing mechanics. Swinging a baseball bat thousands of times tends to over-ride the golf swing mechanics necessary later.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore.....You're out of your element.

You're a frustrated athlete who can't seem to play the sport. So, you throw up your hands and squeal that it can't possibly be an athletic sport.

 

[riflearm2]

?
You're a frustrated athlete who can't seem to play the sport. So, you throw up your hands and squeal that it can't possibly be an athletic sport.

As has been mentioned, there are plenty of sports I'm not good at. That doesn't diminish the athletic ability to play those sports. By admitting that, your theory is shown to be garbage.

My view on golf has nothing to do with my ability to play it. I'm not good at it because I hardly ever play. If it was a game based on athletic ability instead of skill, I would be pretty good.

Think of a full-court pick-up basketball game. Are you going to pick the 20 year old, 6'5 210 lbs. kid fresh off the boat from Nigeria who has only played basketball for a year or are you going to go with the 55 year old, 5'9 chubby guy who has played pick-up basketball his entire life?

A sane person would go with the 20 year old. Why? His natural athletic ability will trump the other guy's 40 years of experience playing basketball. The 30 year old may not be able to shoot it or dribble, but he will be able to rebounds, get up and down the court, and defend. The 55 year old is much more skilled in basketball, but the sport is more about athletic ability than skills.

Now, take both of those guys and select who you want as your golf pairing. Do you want the 20 year old with great athletic ability but barely any golf experience or the 55 year old with no athletic ability but 40 years of golf experience? You're going to go with the 55 year old immediately. Why? Because golf is a game which requires far more skill than athletic ability. You can be a fat piece of shit with the agility of a sloth and still be a hell of a golfer.

What I've been arguing has been consistent the entire thread. I'm not the one who uses arguments like "it takes a high level of focus under pressure to hit a ball that close to the pin from that distance." True, it does. But, focus under pressure has nothing to do with athleticism. "Yeah, but they walk for 4-5 hours, sometimes even uphill."

 

[banker6796]

Rifle, I'm 50 and can go out this evening and play a 9 inning baseball game. I can also go out today and play 18 holes of golf. I wouldn't do either at a high level, but am functional at both. Yes, a lot of guys play golf, but a lot also play in recreational softball and baseball leagues. Just because regular guys play golf doesn't mean you don't have to exert yourself to do it.

Let's be honest, baseball isn't much of a sport if golf isn't. In a baseball game you spend half the game sitting down. You spend another 2/3rds of the remaining time standing around holding your crotch between pitches. A pitcher throws 3-15 pitches and then goes and sits down for 10 minutes.

You can downplay the physicality of most sports. Rugby guys can make fun of football players, there are very few football players that can last 10 minutes playing Rugby. It's all just opinion.

 

[MichiganHerd]

 

[riflearm2]

Rifle, I'm 50 and can go out this evening and play a 9 inning baseball game. I can also go out today and play 18 holes of golf. I wouldn't do either at a high level, but am functional at both. Yes, a lot of guys play golf, but a lot also play in recreational softball and baseball leagues. Just because regular guys play golf doesn't mean you don't have to exert yourself to do it.

You could also go out and play 4 quarters of football against similarly leveled athletes. What does any of your first paragraph have to do with what I posted? Just because a lot of regular guys go out and play golf doesn't have anything to do with it being a sport or not or it taking athletic ability.

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Let's be honest, baseball isn't much of a sport if golf isn't. In a baseball game you spend half the game sitting down. You spend another 2/3rds of the remaining time standing around holding your crotch between pitches. A pitcher throws 3-15 pitches and then goes and sits down for 10 minutes.
.

That's foolish. Outfielders aren't playing if they don't have above average speed. That takes athletic ability. Middle infielders aren't playing if they aren't quick and agile. That is athletic ability. Starting pitchers aren't playing if they don't have good cardio. That is athletic ability. That doesn't take into consideration everything else (running the base paths, quick hands to turn double plays, arm whip). Simply hitting a baseball takes more athletic ability than golfing, and that still leaves out everything else with the sport.

In my example, why would nobody select the 55 year old in basketball and why would nobody select the 20 year old in golf? It's very clear. The answer is because athletic ability is extremely important in basketball and is extremely unimportant in golf.

 

[i am herdman]

The average pro golfer at the highest level is probably hitting 1,000 balls per day during the parts of the year they practice. Read up on it. They probably also spend 18 holes on the course 3-5 days a week, if not more. Then, they work on the short game.

If you think Jordan Spieth is just hitting 70 balls a day four days a week, then you are kidding yourself. Those guys are insane the way they practice. Ball after ball they hit.

 

[riflearm2]

Herman, that's not what I said. Fvck!

Banker made an estimate about the number of innings a starting pitcher may go. So, I stated the approximate number of pitches thrown during those innings. Of course, those pitchers will also throw pitches in between innings, a ton before a game (both long toss and from a mound), in between starts, etc.

For the sake of the discussion, I didn't count up every single ball thrown; just those in competition. Likewise, I didn't count every single swing a golfer does in a day; just in competition.

Why? Because we are talking about the actual sport - what goes on in the competition to determine if it is a sport or not.

A PGA golfer, in competition each day, approximately makes 72 swings. At least half of those are low impact swings (short game) which are not taxing on the body.

 

[i am herdman]

Herman, that's not what I said. Fvck!

Banker made an estimate about the number of innings a starting pitcher may go. So, I stated the approximate number of pitches thrown during those innings. Of course, those pitchers will also throw pitches in between innings, a ton before a game (both long toss and from a mound), in between starts, etc.

For the sake of the discussion, I didn't count up every single ball thrown; just those in competition. Likewise, I didn't count every single swing a golfer does in a day; just in competition.

Why? Because we are talking about the actual sport - what goes on in the competition to determine if it is a sport or not.

A PGA golfer, in competition each day, approximately makes 72 swings. At least half of those are low impact swings (short game) which are not taxing on the body.

No, the PGA tour golfer will be on the range prior to the round hitting balls and putting. Then, he plays the round. After the round the round they hit balls again(vast majority of the time). Next morning, they repeat.