Well your not wrong. They may not have been the issue last night (they didn't do that great though in the first half pass protection and absent in run blocking), when a young QB is forced into his situation of trying to win on his arm and the defense knowing its coming, doesn't really help him that much. He did get pressured in the first half and all of the two games before, hence the anxiousness you could see when he would just throw the ball away when not under pressure. Just what I am seeing when looking at the 4 games we have played. That anxiousness can lead to those bad mechanics in a young QB.
Green
- Thread starter Marine03
- Start date
If this team has a quarterback issue and no viable alternative, who is responsible? This is Doc's team and Doc's recruits. And ONLY Doc's recruits. The fact is that we have had a revolving door at too many positions from year to year, meaning no quality, experienced depth because of departures of players with remaining eligibility. Look at this year's 4th year seniors. About 70 percent of their fellow recruits from the class of incoming recruits in 2015 were all LONG GONE well before this season started!!
Chucko??? If someone plays as shitty as Green played they should put someone else in, not continue playing someone who has absolutely no rhythm
I just don’t like him throwing on the run, period. Run out of bounds or throw it out of bounds......
I'll just say this, through the first 4 games of his college career Green has more yards, more yards per attempt, and a higher efficiency rating than either Cato or Litton. Our passing offense is ranked in the top 35 (34th). Cato's freshman year we were 72nd and Litton's freshman year we were 57th. As a matter of fact, with Litton we were never better than 56th in any of his three years.
If you guys remember, Legg protected Cato and Litton as freshmen and we relied much more on the running game. Green is being asked to carry the offense, mainly because our line can't effectively run block. If you also remember, Cato was also very hesitant to run his freshman (and sophomore) year. I think it's because they want to prove they are pass first, or they are coached that way. I don't think it has anything to do with being afraid to run, and Green will get a better feel for when he should take off as he sees more film on himself and better recognizes situations. Just as a reminder, the kid has played 4 games in college.
If you guys remember, Legg protected Cato and Litton as freshmen and we relied much more on the running game. Green is being asked to carry the offense, mainly because our line can't effectively run block. If you also remember, Cato was also very hesitant to run his freshman (and sophomore) year. I think it's because they want to prove they are pass first, or they are coached that way. I don't think it has anything to do with being afraid to run, and Green will get a better feel for when he should take off as he sees more film on himself and better recognizes situations. Just as a reminder, the kid has played 4 games in college.
The last thing needed on a message board is a reasoned and thought out post.
Stop it.
Let's look a little deeper.
Litton first 4 games:
Norfolk - 24-31-270 4-0
Very good game against a very bad FCS team at home. Win.
Kent State - 14-36-151 2-2
Very bad game against a bad FBS team on the road. Completed about 40% of his passes. We won in double overtime, only got to overtime due to a Reeves KOR for TD.
ODU - 21-35-212 2-0
A win against a fairly poor ODU team at home. Solid game, but not spectacular.
USM - 11-21-163 2-1
Another win against a pretty good USM team that year. Defense held USM to 10, Litton was unimpressive in this game and not asked to do much, with only 11 completions.
Four game totals - 70-123-796 10-3 57% completion. 4-0 record
Green first 4:
Miami - 24-37-272 2-0
Good debut against a bad FBS on the road. Win
EKU - 23-39-278 3-1
Solid performance against a decent FCS at home. Win
NCST - 22-43-270 1-2
Tough outing against a P5 with the #9 scoring defense nationally. Loss
WKU - 18-39-288 2-3
Rough outing on the road, big 98 yard drive to get the lead in the 4th on last possession. Win.
Four game totals - 87-138-1,108 8-6 55% completion. 3-1 record
The two biggest differences are that Green has thrown more picks, even though 3 of the 6 weren't on him they still count, and Green has played a tougher schedule. Norfolk, Kent and ODU were all really bad in 2015. EKU, Miami and WKU are bad, but better as a group than those teams were. NCST is better than USM was in 2015.
We are also more vertical in the passing game. Chase was given a pretty steady diet of short, safe throws where Green is going intermediate and long more. That's why, even though he has a slightly lower completion percentage, he is averaging over 7 yards per attempt while Chase averaged 6.4 through 4 games in 2015.
The bottom line to this is that Green is playing every bit as well as Chase did starting out. Give him some time.
Litton first 4 games:
Norfolk - 24-31-270 4-0
Very good game against a very bad FCS team at home. Win.
Kent State - 14-36-151 2-2
Very bad game against a bad FBS team on the road. Completed about 40% of his passes. We won in double overtime, only got to overtime due to a Reeves KOR for TD.
ODU - 21-35-212 2-0
A win against a fairly poor ODU team at home. Solid game, but not spectacular.
USM - 11-21-163 2-1
Another win against a pretty good USM team that year. Defense held USM to 10, Litton was unimpressive in this game and not asked to do much, with only 11 completions.
Four game totals - 70-123-796 10-3 57% completion. 4-0 record
Green first 4:
Miami - 24-37-272 2-0
Good debut against a bad FBS on the road. Win
EKU - 23-39-278 3-1
Solid performance against a decent FCS at home. Win
NCST - 22-43-270 1-2
Tough outing against a P5 with the #9 scoring defense nationally. Loss
WKU - 18-39-288 2-3
Rough outing on the road, big 98 yard drive to get the lead in the 4th on last possession. Win.
Four game totals - 87-138-1,108 8-6 55% completion. 3-1 record
The two biggest differences are that Green has thrown more picks, even though 3 of the 6 weren't on him they still count, and Green has played a tougher schedule. Norfolk, Kent and ODU were all really bad in 2015. EKU, Miami and WKU are bad, but better as a group than those teams were. NCST is better than USM was in 2015.
We are also more vertical in the passing game. Chase was given a pretty steady diet of short, safe throws where Green is going intermediate and long more. That's why, even though he has a slightly lower completion percentage, he is averaging over 7 yards per attempt while Chase averaged 6.4 through 4 games in 2015.
The bottom line to this is that Green is playing every bit as well as Chase did starting out. Give him some time.
Im not as concerned about the numbers as the trajectory of Greens play and development... Miami Oh - Good, EKU - Meh, NCSU - Not good (albeit a very good opponent), WKU - Awful (against a terrible team).
Everybody keeps saying this, but nobody saying it knows if Thomson is even able to go in anything but an emergency. They also don't know if he's any better than Green. If he is better than Green and healthy, do you think Doc is not playing him because he doesn't want to have the best chance to win? That would seem like an odd choice to me.
1. Young and taking a beating two games in a row!
2. Greens mechanics need work no doubt!
3. He is abnormally calm for being 20 I can see that!
4. Needs to run option more to get into the flow and take the pressure of the Oline.
5. Cody being gone has made a definite difference for the Oline blocking scheme and running the FB.
Gaines needs to stop pussy footing on blocks and WR’s need to block also.
2. Greens mechanics need work no doubt!
3. He is abnormally calm for being 20 I can see that!
4. Needs to run option more to get into the flow and take the pressure of the Oline.
5. Cody being gone has made a definite difference for the Oline blocking scheme and running the FB.
Gaines needs to stop pussy footing on blocks and WR’s need to block also.
Best QB in the state behind Will Grier is Tyson Bagent. I spoke to someone in Shepherd's athletic program that came from a D1 school in the last few weeks that said they are shocked Tyson slipped past the D1 schools but they could not be happier. He did say that at this point Tyson could with out a doubt play at the MAC, CUSA, or AAC level. It will be interesting to see if and when he transfers out.
The kid is number one in the country in passing yards per game as a true freshman
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How would you rank the in-state collegian QBs? Honest question, since I've only seen two of the many play.
Good stuff, Banker.
My biggest issue with Green is that I think his mechanics and below average footwork will always cause him to run hot and cold in the accuracy department. He also has shown little to no touch. Everything seems to be a rocket whether it's a screen or a seam route.
Let's also keep in mind he has our best receiver in quite some time to throw to in Trye Brady. Not a criticism, but I think it's something to remember when comparing him to other QBs.
TBH, I don’t watch other in-state schools play. I have no use for them.
Well obviously the blame goes to the staff for -
1. Not having a dedicated QB coach.
2. Not vetting Thomson better to assure his shoulder was indeed 100%
3. Other than Cato, Doc has not had a QB recruit who came in and got better as he got older. Litton is deabtable. I thought Chase played better as a freshmen than he did as a Junior.
Doc has sucked at recruiting QB's. jmo.
I know that's Cramsey's title, but is he really a QB coach? Why does IG still throw off his back foot? That's an easy fix for a sailing high throw. Just like a pitcher releasing the ball too high - it's gonna go high.
This thread needs to be stickied for the next four years.
I got a buddy of mine that spent the entirety of 2011 telling me Cato was garbage, and I kept saying, "Nah, he's going to be just fine." Every time he'd throw an incompletion, pick, or take a sack, he'd look over at me and glare like it was my fault and say, "AJ Graham should be out there."
Saturday he was like, "This kid is no Cato."
I said, "Yes he is, and you're still you."
I got a buddy of mine that spent the entirety of 2011 telling me Cato was garbage, and I kept saying, "Nah, he's going to be just fine." Every time he'd throw an incompletion, pick, or take a sack, he'd look over at me and glare like it was my fault and say, "AJ Graham should be out there."
Saturday he was like, "This kid is no Cato."
I said, "Yes he is, and you're still you."
I will say the jury is still out on if Green is the QB of the future. Teams have film on Green now which is one main reason he is not "progressing" as some say. Miami had no film on him and could not game plan. Green has NFL talent at the wideout spots, and an oline back that was pretty good last year, so its not like he does not have skill around him.
nope, don't even know him, but Doc should have made the effort. I thought it may have been a mistake in Jan but I really know now that Doc should have taken him. I know Doc's ego wont allow him to admit he made a mistake, but knowing what Green's skill level looks like, Doc needed a QB in the last recruiting cycle.
He did lead us to a 90 yard game winning drive at WKU. Agree with Banker.
Just stop. This is the dumbest argument this board has ever seen, and for whatever reason you will not let it go. The kid wasn't even the best QB in the state of WV last year, much less worthy of a D-I scholarship. If you don't realize that there's a dramatic difference from D-I and D-II then it's not worth trying to explain to you.
This just in: WVU fans think WVU's quarterback is best in state, followed by a D-II QB from a school near WVU, whom they say is good enough to start in Marshall's conference because its so bad, and Marshall's so bad, and Marshall sucks.
So hard to type this with my blown mind laying in pieces around me.
So hard to type this with my blown mind laying in pieces around me.
Is that why one P5 conference school has already called to say, "if you want to transfer out make sure you give us a call?" Look, Tyson is 17 years old and not sure he would see better competition at a prep school. so, if he was at a prep school would he be getting bigger looks right now? My guess is yes.
As I said, the Shepherd guy I spoke to worked a long time at a D1 school and he feels Tyson was over looked by the MAC, AAU, and CUSA schools. He has not reason to lie. Now he did say he thought he was not ready for a P5 school
What I seen was a young QB who hadn’t played very well for what ever reason throughout most of the game.
BUT, when it came down to crunch time, down 17-13, probably last chance drive; i seen a emotional hungry QB getting into a rhythm, in a hurry for the next play call,leading his team for WIN!!
That's the “IT” factor that can’t be tought!!!
BUT, when it came down to crunch time, down 17-13, probably last chance drive; i seen a emotional hungry QB getting into a rhythm, in a hurry for the next play call,leading his team for WIN!!
That's the “IT” factor that can’t be tought!!!
Are we talking about the same Bagent kid who lost the game against Notre Dame College (College, not the University of) by throwing three interceptions?
In fairness, I just asked a coach who played them earlier this year about the kid. Last year, he was a coach at a Sun Belt school. He said Bagent is "the real deal" and that he would be the best QB on the roster at his school last year (a Sun Belt school). Seeing that the Sun Belt has been ranked higher than C-USA every week of the season so far, it gives the annoying guy some credibility.
In fairness, I just asked a coach who played them earlier this year about the kid. Last year, he was a coach at a Sun Belt school. He said Bagent is "the real deal" and that he would be the best QB on the roster at his school last year (a Sun Belt school). Seeing that the Sun Belt has been ranked higher than C-USA every week of the season so far, it gives the annoying guy some credibility.
I have zero doubt Bagent is good but something just doesn't add up with the kid.
How in the world was he completely overlooked by every FCS and FBS program in the area despite playing on the best team in the state alongside multiple kids who received division one offers?
I think some of it actually has to do with Martinsburg totally dominating their competition. When you're playing on a team filled with stars, particularly at the QB position, you can sometimes get overlooked. Folks watch, and come away with the feeling that even @oldeherd could do well at the QB position. If you've ever watched them play, their line dominates, and their receivers are always open, so it's sometimes hard to look all that great at quarterback when everybody knows you're 8 or 9 touchdowns better than the opponent.
And there in lies the subject for the day. We dont know why he slipped between the cracks but he did. One thing is he has grown since last year, put on good weight and got taller, but the thing everyone didn't do was give Tyson credit for his work ethic. That is what is getting him all the production. He is always in the film room, weight room, or out throwing extra with his wideouts to get his timing down. He is a 4.0 student, and the rumor is he gave a killer pre-season "Remember The Titans" type speech to the entire team that had upper classman ready to run thru a brick wall for this freshman(off the charts leadership skills like Chad).
Good points, but something people didn't realize is Tyrson was at times calling his own plays at the line. Getting all those wideouts in the right places to get the ball to the right player depending on the defense. The coach at Martinsburg is still in shock he is at Shepherd.
How did Coach Donnan find
Troy Brown
Chad Pennington
Coach Donnan could beat the bushes, recruit ing places overlooked by other coaches. He could recognize raw talent and develop it!!!
Troy Brown
Chad Pennington
Coach Donnan could beat the bushes, recruit ing places overlooked by other coaches. He could recognize raw talent and develop it!!!
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