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I am sorry we had to nuke Japan because they started the war.

i am herdman

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Really?

Thank God Democrats back then(Harry S Truman) had balls and did what they had to do. Thank God they weren't flower children or their flower children offspring.

Can you imagine the men that came back from WW2 had these kids that became flower children and had little flower children? They had to be like Damn we defeated the Nazis and the Japs and this is the thanks we get. A bunch of ungrateful idiots.

I guess Obama who would have done nothing after Pearl Harbor would have like us to just invade main land Japan where we could have lost another 200,000 men and contintued the war for two years more. Oh, and probably would have killed 500,000 more Japs.

This guy can't go soon enough.

Thank you Harry S Truman and the WW2 Generation. The bastards started it and we finished it.
 
my Facebook news feed has been covered with stories about what the Pres should say to the "victims". BBC, Nat Geo, ect. not a mention of what the "victims" should say to the families of those still entombed at the bottom of Pearl Harbor...or those that marched Bataan... or the Chinese, Filipinos, Malays, ect civilians murdered by the THOUSANDS...

how about, "Don't **** with us and we won't destroy you!"


330px-Chinese_killed_by_Japanese_Army_in_a_ditch%2C_Hsuchow.jpg

Soochow, China, 1938. A ditch full of the bodies of Chinese civilians, killed by Japanese soldiers.

Chinese_civilians_to_be_buried_alive.jpg

Chinese prisoners being buried alive.

330px-Japanese_bayonet_practice_with_dead_Chinese_near_Tianjin.jpg

Japanese bayonet practice with dead Chinese near Tianjin.

330px-Japanese_atrocities_imperial_war_museum_K9924.jpg

330px-Japanese_atrocities_imperial_war_museum_K9922.jpg
330px-Japanese_shooting_blindfolded_Sikh_prisoners.jpg
330px-Japanese_atrocities_imperial_war_museum_K9923.jpg

From top to bottom; Japanese soldiers shooting blindfolded Sikh prisoners before bayonetting them. This set of four photographs were found among Japanese records when British troops entered Singapore.
 
my Facebook news feed has been covered with stories about what the Pres should say to the "victims". BBC, Nat Geo, ect. not a mention of what the "victims" should say to the families of those still entombed at the bottom of Pearl Harbor...or those that marched Bataan... or the Chinese, Filipinos, Malays, ect civilians murdered by the THOUSANDS...

how about, "Don't **** with us and we won't destroy you!"


330px-Chinese_killed_by_Japanese_Army_in_a_ditch%2C_Hsuchow.jpg

Soochow, China, 1938. A ditch full of the bodies of Chinese civilians, killed by Japanese soldiers.

Chinese_civilians_to_be_buried_alive.jpg

Chinese prisoners being buried alive.

330px-Japanese_bayonet_practice_with_dead_Chinese_near_Tianjin.jpg

Japanese bayonet practice with dead Chinese near Tianjin.

330px-Japanese_atrocities_imperial_war_museum_K9924.jpg

330px-Japanese_atrocities_imperial_war_museum_K9922.jpg
330px-Japanese_shooting_blindfolded_Sikh_prisoners.jpg
330px-Japanese_atrocities_imperial_war_museum_K9923.jpg

From top to bottom; Japanese soldiers shooting blindfolded Sikh prisoners before bayonetting them. This set of four photographs were found among Japanese records when British troops entered Singapore.

No sense in adding the truth here Andy. Thats not very PC of you.
 
"Rummel’s estimate of 6-million to 10-million dead between 1937 (the Rape of Nanjing) and 1945, may be roughly corollary to the time-frame of the Nazi Holocaust, but it falls far short of the actual numbers killed by the Japanese war machine. If you add, say, 2-million Koreans, 2-million Manchurians, Chinese, Russians, many East European Jews (both Sephardic and Ashkenazi), and others killed by Japan between 1895 and 1937 (conservative figures), the total of Japanese victims is more like 10-million to 14-million. Of these, I would suggest that between 6-million and 8-million were ethnic Chinese, regardless of where they were resident."

War Crimes:
Attacks on Pearl Harbor, Malaya, Singapore, and Hong Kong
Mass killings
Human experimentation and biological warfare
Use of chemical weapons
Torture of prisoners of war
Execution and killing of captured Allied airmen
Cannibalism
Forced labor
Comfort women
Looting
Perfidy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

just imagine, in 50 years or so when we have our first Transgender President he/she can apologize to the Bin Laden family and Al Qaeda for what we did after they brought the towers down...
 
Was this trip a bad idea or par for the course for this prez? I don't know, it's just splitting atoms.
 
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Obama was referring to the innocents who happened to be killed by the a-bombs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and the tragedy of war altogether. He said nothing of the sort regarding better alternatives available at that time in the Summer of 1945 in dealing with Japan.
 
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Thing is we killed more people during the fire bombing raids than we did with the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The fire bombing estimates were in the range of 241,000 - 900,000 actual dead.

The original estimate and planned results were the attacks would kill over 500,000 people, and leave approximately 7 million plus or minus homeless and force 3.5 million to evacuate.

Hiroshima approximately 66,000 people killed / vaporized with the first bomb.

From what I have read we killed 40,000 at Nagasaki on the day we released the second bomb by 1945 the total had risen to approximately 70,000


So..the fire bombing raids were in actuality even more devastating than the two atomic bombs but what you hear the most about is in fact the atomic bombs. As long as they waited to surrender I have always been surprised that we actually held off with dropping the third bomb considering we actually had 12 ready to go.

All I know is this..they started it with Pearl and we finished it , Admiral Yamamoto made the statement after Pearl while all the celebrating was going on that "we have awakened a sleeping giant. They did and paid for it in the end. No other nation in the world was capable of what we accomplished during WW2..defeating two adversaries on two sides of the world. What leaders, what a military.
 
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Obama was referring to the innocents who happened to be killed by the a-bombs in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and the tragedy of war altogether. He said nothing of the sort regarding better alternatives available at that time in the Summer of 1945 in dealing with Japan.

THEY ALL KNOW THAT GLORY, NO, ON SECOND THOUGHT THEY DO NOT.
THEY ARE TO DAMNED LAZEY TO ACTUALLY LISTEN, OR OBTAIN ACTUAL
FACTS AND REASON. IT'S JUST A HELL OF A LOT EASIER TO LISTEN TO
THE LIARS ON TALK RADIO, FOX NEWS, AND HERDMAN.

HERE IS THE FULL TEXT OF OBAMA'S SPEECH. I PASTED IT RATHER THAN
A LINK BECAUSE MOST OF YOU ARE TO DAMNED LAZY TO EVEN FOLLOW
A LINK. SO, OF COURSE YOU ARE ALSO TO DAMNED LAZY AND BUSY BATHING
IN YOUR IGNORANCE TO BOTHER TO READ IT.

SO, I POST IT TO MAKE A POINT. SHOW ME ONE LINE IN THE ENTIRE SPEECH
THAT IS ANYWHERE NEAR AN APOLOGY.

MY BET IS THAT MOST OF YOU WILL AGREE WITH IT - HERDMAN IS ONE OF THE
EXCEPTIONS, HE IS TO BUSY SPOUTING OFF HOW TOUGH HE IS.
SO HERE IT IS DO YOUR WORST.

The following is a transcript of President Obama’s speech in Hiroshima, Japan, as recorded by The New York Times.

Seventy-one years ago, on a bright cloudless morning, death fell from the sky and the world was changed. A flash of light and a wall of fire destroyed a city and demonstrated that mankind possessed the means to destroy itself.

Why do we come to this place, to Hiroshima? We come to ponder a terrible force unleashed in a not-so-distant past. We come to mourn the dead, including over 100,000 Japanese men, women and children, thousands of Koreans, a dozen Americans held prisoner.

Their souls speak to us. They ask us to look inward, to take stock of who we are and what we might become.

It is not the fact of war that sets Hiroshima apart. Artifacts tell us that violent conflict appeared with the very first man. Our early ancestors having learned to make blades from flint and spears from wood used these tools not just for hunting but against their own kind. On every continent, the history of civilization is filled with war, whether driven by scarcity of grain or hunger for gold, compelled by nationalist fervor or religious zeal. Empires have risen and fallen. Peoples have been subjugated and liberated. And at each juncture, innocents have suffered, a countless toll, their names forgotten by time.

The world war that reached its brutal end in Hiroshima and Nagasaki was fought among the wealthiest and most powerful of nations. Their civilizations had given the world great cities and magnificent art. Their thinkers had advanced ideas of justice and harmony and truth. And yet the war grew out of the same base instinct for domination or conquest that had caused conflicts among the simplest tribes, an old pattern amplified by new capabilities and without new constraints.

In the span of a few years, some 60 million people would die. Men, women, children, no different than us. Shot, beaten, marched, bombed, jailed, starved, gassed to death. There are many sites around the world that chronicle this war, memorials that tell stories of courage and heroism, graves and empty camps that echo of unspeakable depravity.

Yet in the image of a mushroom cloud that rose into these skies, we are most starkly reminded of humanity’s core contradiction. How the very spark that marks us as a species, our thoughts, our imagination, our language, our toolmaking, our ability to set ourselves apart from nature and bend it to our will — those very things also give us the capacity for unmatched destruction.

How often does material advancement or social innovation blind us to this truth? How easily we learn to justify violence in the name of some higher cause.

Every great religion promises a pathway to love and peace and righteousness, and yet no religion has been spared from believers who have claimed their faith as a license to kill.

Nations arise telling a story that binds people together in sacrifice and cooperation, allowing for remarkable feats. But those same stories have so often been used to oppress and dehumanize those who are different.

Science allows us to communicate across the seas and fly above the clouds, to cure disease and understand the cosmos, but those same discoveries can be turned into ever more efficient killing machines.

The wars of the modern age teach us this truth. Hiroshima teaches this truth. Technological progress without an equivalent progress in human institutions can doom us. The scientific revolution that led to the splitting of an atom requires a moral revolution as well.

That is why we come to this place. We stand here in the middle of this city and force ourselves to imagine the moment the bomb fell. We force ourselves to feel the dread of children confused by what they see. We listen to a silent cry. We remember all the innocents killed across the arc of that terrible war and the wars that came before and the wars that would follow.

Mere words cannot give voice to such suffering. But we have a shared responsibility to look directly into the eye of history and ask what we must do differently to curb such suffering again.

Some day, the voices of the hibakusha will no longer be with us to bear witness. But the memory of the morning of Aug. 6, 1945, must never fade. That memory allows us to fight complacency. It fuels our moral imagination. It allows us to change.

And since that fateful day, we have made choices that give us hope. The United States and Japan have forged not only an alliance but a friendship that has won far more for our people than we could ever claim through war. The nations of Europe built a union that replaced battlefields with bonds of commerce and democracy. Oppressed people and nations won liberation. An international community established institutions and treaties that work to avoid war and aspire to restrict and roll back and ultimately eliminate the existence of nuclear weapons.

Still, every act of aggression between nations, every act of terror and corruption and cruelty and oppression that we see around the world shows our work is never done. We may not be able to eliminate man’s capacity to do evil, so nations and the alliances that we form must possess the means to defend ourselves. But among those nations like my own that hold nuclear stockpiles, we must have the courage to escape the logic of fear and pursue a world without them.

We may not realize this goal in my lifetime, but persistent effort can roll back the possibility of catastrophe. We can chart a course that leads to the destruction of these stockpiles. We can stop the spread to new nations and secure deadly materials from fanatics.

And yet that is not enough. For we see around the world today how even the crudest rifles and barrel bombs can serve up violence on a terrible scale. We must change our mind-set about war itself. To prevent conflict through diplomacy and strive to end conflicts after they’ve begun. To see our growing interdependence as a cause for peaceful cooperation and not violent competition. To define our nations not by our capacity to destroy but by what we build. And perhaps, above all, we must reimagine our connection to one another as members of one human race.

For this, too, is what makes our species unique. We’re not bound by genetic code to repeat the mistakes of the past. We can learn. We can choose. We can tell our children a different story, one that describes a common humanity, one that makes war less likely and cruelty less easily accepted.

We see these stories in the hibakusha. The woman who forgave a pilot who flew the plane that dropped the atomic bomb because she recognized that what she really hated was war itself. The man who sought out families of Americans killed here because he believed their loss was equal to his own.

My own nation’s story began with simple words: All men are created equal and endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights including life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Realizing that ideal has never been easy, even within our own borders, even among our own citizens. But staying true to that story is worth the effort. It is an ideal to be strived for, an ideal that extends across continents and across oceans. The irreducible worth of every person, the insistence that every life is precious, the radical and necessary notion that we are part of a single human family — that is the story that we all must tell.

That is why we come to Hiroshima. So that we might think of people we love. The first smile from our children in the morning. The gentle touch from a spouse over the kitchen table. The comforting embrace of a parent. We can think of those things and know that those same precious moments took place here, 71 years ago.

Those who died, they are like us. Ordinary people understand this, I think. They do not want more war. They would rather that the wonders of science be focused on improving life and not eliminating it. When the choices made by nations, when the choices made by leaders, reflect this simple wisdom, then the lesson of Hiroshima is done.

The world was forever changed here, but today the children of this city will go through their day in peace. What a precious thing that is. It is worth protecting, and then extending to every child. That is a future we can choose, a future in which Hiroshima and Nagasaki are known not as the dawn of atomic warfare but as the start of our own moral awakening.
 
Well why was Obama the first president to do so?

Even Jimmy Carter knew the japs had it coming.
 
I was having this same discussion with some friends on facebook. This was one of the responses:

I had an assignment in college. Research a topic. Write a paper and then find an opposing view subject matter expert. Interview them and then write the paper again. I chose the subject of dropping the bomb on Japan and read several books and opinions on why this was a horrific thing to do. Being in college and in my early 20's I couldn't believe anyone would approve mass genocide.

Then I interviewed a local well known historian at our college. I will never forget his points of debate and emphasis on the subject. All war is horrible. All sides do despicable things. At the end of the day, like it or not, it's either us or them that dies. The Japanese were fully entrenched and more than willing to die and sacrifice for their country. It would have taken millions of deaths to win a typical ground invasion and possibly even failed despite the collapse of the axis. So when you have the capability to end it all with no American casualties what do you choose? What do you tell the mothers of millions that you refused to use the technology to save your native sons.

Needless to say, I re-wrote my essay with an enlightened and new point of view. Hindsight is 20-20. But during war there is rarely a peaceful ending or the ability to hold hands and sing Kumbaya.
 
More guilt laden speech delivery by the sympathizer and chief. I am eager to have a leader that promotes American greatness again.

Every speech he delivers like this paints another ring around the target on our back.
 
Some of you are blinded by hatred or just stupid. That's a good speech. We should strive for peace. It would be nice if we could banish such weapons...but I believe there is no putting the genie back in the bottle.

Herdman, he is the first because for a long time the entire war was still a sore spot in US-Jap relations. It is important to get that shit all behind us to counter the rise of China.

Never mind that herdman and the rest of you have bought Jap stuff. If you still hold a grudge, put your money where your mouth is.
 
I've never needed to "put it behind me". Considering there are not many in that generation left...what is exactly needed to "put behind"? (Ive never owned a US made car or truck). What exactly does a "winner" of a war need to put behind it????

Frankly I don't give a shit. But let's get real.... The Prez really doesn't either. Just another stop on the apology tour.

This president talked tougher keeping US veterans out of the WW2 memorial a couple years back.
 
in this thread we have a picture of a man that brought down the USSR, and of a man that brought down male and female signage on bathroom doors...

We have in this thread a picture of a man who "brought down the USSR" without firing a shot, and signed a treaty with the commies. Must have been a coward.

And a picture of a man who probably did more to help heal a long time sore with Japan than any previous president.
 
1. THE ONLY THING RONALD REAGAN BROUGHT DOWN WAS
THE AMERICAN MIDDLE CLASS. WHEN HE FIRED THE
AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS HE SIGNALED TO CORP.
IT WAS OPEN SEASON ON THE WORKING CLASS.

2. FINDING NO PLACE IN OBAMA'S SPEECH THAT WAS ANYTHING
APPROACHING AN APOLOGY AND REFUSING TO ACKNOWLEDGE
IT'S INSIGHT AND REASON, CONS SHOW US THEIR COMPASSIONATE
SIDE - IT IS NOW AN ACT OF WEAKNESS TO HELP AN 80 YEAR OLD MAN.

YOU CAN COUNT ON A CONSERVATIVE. WHENEVER YOU THINK THEY
CANNOT SINK ANY LOWER IN THOUGHT OR DEED, THE ALWAYS DO.
 
I've never needed to "put it behind me". Considering there are not many in that generation left...what is exactly needed to "put behind"? (Ive never owned a US made car or truck). What exactly does a "winner" of a war need to put behind it????

Frankly I don't give a shit. But let's get real.... The Prez really doesn't either. Just another stop on the apology tour.

Asians are not like us dumbasses. They don't forget shit. Same with Arabs. Different culture. They worship their ancestors, for fvcks sake.

I see you have also forgotten English. I don't see an apology anywhere in there. Do I believe Obama sincerely believes we would be better off with world peace and no nukes. Of course. Anyone with a half a brain does. Unless you are a Nazi or a Jihadist. Is it theater? Sure. But theater is important in diplomacy. Half of it is intended for the Chinamen, to remind them we are friends with another country they hate. It's all part of the Pacific Pivot, the smartest thing Obama has done.
 
Dear God man.... Most of the Asians I've worked with or met already know if it wasn't for America most of that part of the world would still be living in burned out rice fields. We rebuilt them and refinancied them countless times.

We have to be friends with the japs because we own shit tons of their debt while they circle the world currency drain. China already knows they could walk all over us with this guy in office. They are laughing at his "diplomacy" like an old Seinfeld episode. Russia is too.

Again, what do we have to "put behind us"? We won...something else that culture understands. This is the most ass backwards administration in my lifetime. He cuts and runs out of the part of the world that's actually working to get nuke to use against us, supported "arab springs" (which created 10s of millions of international refugees in crisis), proudly proclaims diplomatic success when a country that chants death to America is handed $150b ("because they promised they wont make a nuke") .....then returns to Japan hat in hand to deliver a guilt laden "no nukes" speech after 75 years???

I never claimed this was an "apology". What It was....was pathetic and weak Since he cant get re-elected here with utopian bullshit, I guess he might as well sell it to some 90 year old Japanese veteran who originally thought America was going to be a pushover. Unfortunately for the 90 year old, it appears he was just 7 decades too early.
 
[QUOTE="extragreen, post: 348573, member: 440

And a picture of a man who probably did more to help heal a long time sore with Japan than any previous president.[/QUOTE]


This must be ****ing comedy hour.

Couldn't get the Arab world to like us as promised so.........crawl back to a country that's already an Allie (we fund and protect) to "heal" them........lmao.
 
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"Arab Spring", as I have explained, was simply an extension of Neoconservative policy. That's YOUR party. The last POTUS to have a realist foreign policy was a Democrat.

What would you do with Iran? Nuke them first? They can no longer enrich shit. If they don't abide by that agreement, by all means fvck 'em. Frankly I think Iran is less of a risk than our Sunni "friends".

Besides it being dirty pool, I don't care if Putin wants to play Peter the Great. You shouldn't care either. In other news, Russia has proposed we make joint air strikes on ISIL. We should take them up on it. Hell, the apparent nominee of YOUR party is cool with Putin.

What is China going to walk over us with? Their one old Soviet sorta aircraft carrier? The one they were killing their test pilots trying to take off from? The one they can't even fly from while fully armed? Look, I fully believe China will step on their dick in the next couple of centuries, but when they do they better have increased their military capabilities by about 2000%.

None of this means I think Obama has done a bang up job on foreign policy, but it's pretty much been status quo except we actually made some inroads with Iran. Do you know why Iran wants a nuke? Because everyone knows Saudi Arabia can call Pakistan and get one...after all, they funded that program.

Back to Japan. They are still bitter, don't kid yourself. They teach propaganda about WWII, they gloss over what they did and teach their kids we made them glow in the dark. Which is fine, as long as they know we can make them glow in the dark again. And they do know this. But we still need them as China's influence grows. It's a nice little gesture that costs us nothing. And shit, I want to visit Hiroshima, why wouldn't Obama want to? I want to see that dude's shadow, the one that got vaporized. That's badass.
 
"You cant blame Obama for anything that occurs after his election, during his 8 years as president, or once he leaves office." said *independents* everywhere.
 
You can apologize without saying I am sorry.

I thought that Obama's statement in the speech about reducing nuclear weapons showed a weakness and a blinding trust in other nations that want to destroy us......just like Reagan was weak.
 
maybe Obama could leave office early and start his apology tour this summer
 
Maybe conservatives should learn that a gesture of respect is not an apology.
 
On this memorial day I would like to take the time to reflect on all the German's who lost their lives due to American weapons during WW2. It is a sad thing that we needed to kill so many. The world is a cruel place, War is tough, they fought hard for what they believed, someone had to win.............wait.............the jews are the largest voting block for Dems......"X" what I just said....better show Japan "respect" first.
 
And yes you did. You said it was another stop on his apology tour. So if he isn't apologizing, how is it an apology tour?


Let's call it a sympathy tour. "Our bad....fvcked you guys up." See, didn't need to say "we are sorry" but the implication is there. Just like you said. "It's theatre". Theatre for what? What's the need for theater if it's not "sorry". I'm sure the Chi coms are shaking in their boots. Japan forgives us now....
 
It is all part of Obama's anti colonial attitude that he learned from his father and his learning from abroad.

Look in his past and you will learn who he is. Raleigh is correct. It is his sympathy tour because the big USA had an advantage over the Japs and being an industrial and military giant. His father hated the British Empire and others who he felt had wrongly taken advantage of nations in Africa. Obama views the USA, his own country, in the same manner. Look at his associations with men like Bill Ayers among others.
 
That's absolutely hilarious. You call obama anti colonial and yet nearly every major war we have fought has been against colonialism. Yet, evidently, you want America to be colonialist.
 
Look up his past greed. Look up his father. You will learn more of who he is.
 
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