If Donnan or Pruett were the coach we would have 6 or 7 CUSA Titles

[i am herdman]

and not be losing that bad to UC or Akron that bad at home. I think those two coaches would win it every other year on average and would have some back to back or maybe some three-peats in there.

They were that good and the league is that bad.

I think winning the old Southern Conference back in the day, pound for pound(boxing reference), was harder to win. We had better IAA teams that what we have now. How many of our good IAA teams would have got beat that bad by UC at home? That would be zero.

 

[The Real SamC]

If you are saying that we, as a I-AA team in the early 90s, would have had a shot at CUSA v. 1.0 and later “Big” (sic) East Cincinnati of that era, you are delusional.

If you are saying that we won a lot of games in I-AA because we were at the top of it, you are repeating things everyone knows.

 

[i am herdman]

If you are saying that we, as a I-AA team in the early 90s, would have had a shot at CUSA v. 1.0 and later “Big” (sic) East Cincinnati of that era, you are delusional.

If you are saying that we won a lot of games in I-AA because we were at the top of it, you are repeating things everyone knows.

I am saying we had IAA teams(several of them) taht would have put up a better fight against UC at home that what happened this weekend.

I am saying we had IAA teams that would beat the snot of our team now.

I am saying if Donna or Pruett would have been the coach in CUSA the last 10 years they would have 6 or 7 titles at Marshall.

 

[The Real SamC]

Then you are delusional.

 

[i am herdman]

Then you are delusional.

No I am not. I think we could have won the watered down version of the league 5 times for sure. That's half the time. Throw in surprise and we get to 6.

 

[The Real SamC]

So we are back to MU is supposed to win because it is supposed to.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

So we are back to MU is supposed to win because it is supposed to.

St. Bobby never lost either

 

[i am herdman]

St. Bobby never lost either

Of course he did, but he won a lot as well. I also said Donnan.

 

[i am herdman]

So we are back to MU is supposed to win because it is supposed to.

So you are back to excuse making. Of course supposing to win is part of it. Most good programs have that mindset.

Part of the problem know is their is no mandate, will, or standard to winning at a high level at Marshall. It is ho hum go win enough to go to a bowl, collect our paycheck, get some more money, and retire off into the sunset.

Put a plan in place, hire good people, have standards and demand it.

 

[ThunderDrunk304]

So does everyone just ignore Pruetts NCAA violations, his “retirement”, and then going to coach for buddy at UVA? Serious question

 

[Tim_N_Montana]

So does everyone just ignore Pruetts NCAA violations, his “retirement”, and then going to coach for buddy at UVA? Serious question

.

For some reason yes! Drives me crazy. Loved him while he was here but left us high and dry. Now all the apologist will come in and say this and that was going on...fact is he bailed at the worst time possible. Do it right after a season not in March.

Thanks for what you did now we move on.

 

[The Real SamC]

Put a plan in place, hire good people, have standards and demand it.

Thank you Leroy Jethro Gibbs.

You do understand NCIS is just a TV show, right? “Pull out all the stops”, “work harder” “give 110%” “demand excellence” and other such nonsense is just so much ho-ha, right? You get that smacking McGee on the back of the head and telling him to go over everything again until he catches the bad guys is make believe?

We have a plan. We are working as hard as we can. We have standards. And, bluntly, we are doing better at it than most members of our conference. A conference made up of schools all trying to be at the same level. A conference, UNLIKE THE MAC AND SO CON, where we have no real reason to feel automatically superior to most of the other members.

 

[herdalicious]

Also would help to have Marshall Reynolds paying players again like he did for those guys.

 

[i am herdman]

So does everyone just ignore Pruetts NCAA violations, his “retirement”, and then going to coach for buddy at UVA? Serious question

We don't care

 

[i am herdman]

Also would help to have Marshall Reynolds paying players again like he did for those guys.

Let's say Marshall Reynolds help Doc play the players. You know that $20 an hour to be a janitor. Would that help Doc win more games. I don't think so.

 

[i am herdman]

Thank you Leroy Jethro Gibbs.

You do understand NCIS is just a TV show, right? “Pull out all the stops”, “work harder” “give 110%” “demand excellence” and other such nonsense is just so much ho-ha, right? You get that smacking McGee on the back of the head and telling him to go over everything again until he catches the bad guys is make believe?

We have a plan. We are working as hard as we can. We have standards. And, bluntly, we are doing better at it than most members of our conference. A conference made up of schools all trying to be at the same level. A conference, UNLIKE THE MAC AND SO CON, where we have no real reason to feel automatically superior to most of the other members.

We have a mediocre standard. Just being in honest. I know those UNC Charlotte matchups are hard and all but, we could probably do just a little better.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

So does everyone just ignore Pruetts NCAA violations, his “retirement”, and then going to coach for buddy at UVA? Serious question

Its funny people forget that.
Imagine a coach who never attended MU seems to have more loyalty to it than a guy who went there.

Then he cherry picks Doc's worst season ever, to parade with fatass Jim Justice saying, "I'd like to come back and coach." When we all know Justice is supporting him in return for his support during his governor run.
Pruett's been out of coaching for years, he's not getting younger, and while he did win against plenty of teams, lets not pretend he never struggled to win against some of them.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

So you are back to excuse making. Of course supposing to win is part of it. Most good programs have that mindset.

Part of the problem know is their is no mandate, will, or standard to winning at a high level at Marshall. It is ho hum go win enough to go to a bowl, collect our paycheck, get some more money, and retire off into the sunset.

Put a plan in place, hire good people, have standards and demand it.

When MU talks of wanting to raise their standards (translation: they need money and financial support from the fans to increase) everyone's quiet.
Seems that whenever it doesn't involve money (which absolutely drives the ship) the fans come out in hordes wanting to complain.

Talk about mandates...where are the fans mandate? Seems divided if you ask me.

One set who seem to only care about number of conference titles...Doc has 1.
You have another set who see the body of work and appreciate the consistency in it (10 win seasons).

The problem is, they'll flip flop to fit their bitchfests.

Doc won in 2014 and people STILL can't get over WKU...they also attacked the schedule.
(Doc beat more teams with winning records that year than Pruett did in 1999, his best year).

When Doc wins 10+ games a season, those same idiots come out and complain about lack of conference titles.
Many of whom sit and tell their stories of how they are such hardcore fans and support the program and are so old, which somehow justifies their arguments (SPOILER: it doesn't).
But yet get so bent out of shape over a loss or a damn hot dog.
They also can't seem to accept: Pruett is gone and is very unlikely to return. Doc isn't a world beater but he isn't the world's worst coach.

Hey, if you really want change (which we all know you won't do this) go find that loser from 2016 in Barboursville who began the Gofundme to raise money to pay for Doc's buyout.
Last I saw he was at $150.00 raised from 1 person.
You can show him your little badge to emphasize you know what you're doing too!

 

[The Real SamC]

We have a mediocre standard.

So, it is all a mistake. Congratulations. Doc and Mike WANT to be “mediocre”. I just sent them an e-mail and told them to “try harder” and “the goal is to win”.

I’m sure they will give 110%.

 

[i am herdman]

So, it is all a mistake. Congratulations. Doc and Mike WANT to be “mediocre”. I just sent them an e-mail and told them to “try harder” and “the goal is to win”.

I’m sure they will give 110%.

Maybe they just are not very good.

 

[MichiganHerd]

Maybe they just are not very good.

I think you're onto something here. I read about all the talent this team is supposed to have this year, and I'm only seeing it out of a very select few. Not arguing with anybody's take, but I see the biggest problem being attrition. Assuming Marshall is truly out-recruiting most teams in the conference, and somewhat holding their own nationally against other top notch G5 programs, then I have to think losing so many players every year is killing them, and I'm not talking about those who have exhausted their eligibility. You combine that with what appears to be a lack of preparation (coaching at fault), then you have a combination that simply cannot get it done week in and week out. Hopefully, now that conference play is on the verge of starting, you'll see a team better prepared, with players that come ready to compete.

 

[i am herdman]

I think you're onto something here. I read about all the talent this team is supposed to have this year, and I'm only seeing it out of a very select few. Not arguing with anybody's take, but I see the biggest problem being attrition. Assuming Marshall is truly out-recruiting most teams in the conference, and somewhat holding their own nationally against other top notch G5 programs, then I have to think losing so many players every year is killing them, and I'm not talking about those who have exhausted their eligibility. You combine that with what appears to be a lack of preparation (coaching at fault), then you have a combination that simply cannot get it done week in and week out. Hopefully, now that conference play is on the verge of starting, you'll see a team better prepared, with players that come ready to compete.

Let's hope so and still possible

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I can’t put the “not very good” on Mike. Best AD in my lifetime. He’s is getting it done on multiple levels! He took a chance on DD, and it has worked out beyond anyone’s (except Dannys) expectations. Football is a tough nut. Doc has done just enough to stay. We prob need a coaching change, as I foolishly believe that even Sam would agree that most coaches fade as they head into their own sunset.....we are not going to get to where we aspire to be (recognized as a top 5 G5) consistently with Doc @ the helm, period. He can’t win the big games because he is not a leader and doesn’t make in-game adjustments as the better coach across the way figures us out. So, MH has to make the case that, in spite of Holidays overall record, he isn’t the future, and we (fans) don’t want to wait until 2022 or whenever his current contract expires. That means a buyout and to go looking for a young coach who doesn’t mind using us as a stepping stone to get to a P5. There is no pot of gold at the end of Doc’s rainbow - you will never reach it. Time for courage and choose to demand better. We didn’t spend the last 49 years striving to reach higher only to settle for mediocre seasons and meaningless bowl wins for the next 20.....
Oh yeah..... we’re young! Bring on the Herd. Going to be a great season on the hardwood....

 

[ohio herd]

and not be losing that bad to UC or Akron that bad at home. I think those two coaches would win it every other year on average and would have some back to back or maybe some three-peats in there.

They were that good and the league is that bad.

I think winning the old Southern Conference back in the day, pound for pound(boxing reference), was harder to win. We had better IAA teams that what we have now. How many of our good IAA teams would have got beat that bad by UC at home? That would be zero.

Just a FYI: In 20 years of playing football in the SC we had 2 outright championships( 94,96) and 1 shared title (88).

 

[i am herdman]

Doc is like Pat Hill at Fresno State was.

Just a FYI: In 20 years of playing football in the SC we had 2 outright championships( 94,96) and 1 shared title (88).

Bob Pruett and Donnan were not the coach either. We started getting good in 84. Pound for pound at its level the Southern Conference was tough and stacked. Pound for Pound it was tougher than CUSA 2.0x. No I am not saying it was IA football but at the time it was the best IAA conference full of national title contendors and champions. Marshall was also on upward path.

 

[TwentyTen]

I can’t put the “not very good” on Mike. Best AD in my lifetime. He’s is getting it done on multiple levels! He took a chance on DD, and it has worked out beyond anyone’s (except Dannys) expectations. Football is a tough nut. Doc has done just enough to stay. We prob need a coaching change, as I foolishly believe that even Sam would agree that most coaches fade as they head into their own sunset.....we are not going to get to where we aspire to be (recognized as a top 5 G5) consistently with Doc @ the helm, period. He can’t win the big games because he is not a leader and doesn’t make in-game adjustments as the better coach across the way figures us out. So, MH has to make the case that, in spite of Holidays overall record, he isn’t the future, and we (fans) don’t want to wait until 2022 or whenever his current contract expires. That means a buyout and to go looking for a young coach who doesn’t mind using us as a stepping stone to get to a P5. There is no pot of gold at the end of Doc’s rainbow - you will never reach it. Time for courage and choose to demand better. We didn’t spend the last 49 years striving to reach higher only to settle for mediocre seasons and meaningless bowl wins for the next 20.....
Oh yeah..... we’re young! Bring on the Herd. Going to be a great season on the hardwood....

I think the fact that Hamrick is satisfied with our accomplishments under Doc is what makes him not very good. We simply need someone striving to be better than we are now. The fact we aren’t a doormat shouldn’t be reason enough to be happy.

IMO, if we can’t expect to beat or at least lose a very close game at home to likes of Cincinnati, NC State, etc. then we might as well just play money games and collect a fat check.

 

[Bankerreturns]

I can’t put the “not very good” on Mike. Best AD in my lifetime. He’s is getting it done on multiple levels! He took a chance on DD, and it has worked out beyond anyone’s (except Dannys) expectations. Football is a tough nut. Doc has done just enough to stay. We prob need a coaching change, as I foolishly believe that even Sam would agree that most coaches fade as they head into their own sunset.....we are not going to get to where we aspire to be (recognized as a top 5 G5) consistently with Doc @ the helm, period. He can’t win the big games because he is not a leader and doesn’t make in-game adjustments as the better coach across the way figures us out. So, MH has to make the case that, in spite of Holidays overall record, he isn’t the future, and we (fans) don’t want to wait until 2022 or whenever his current contract expires. That means a buyout and to go looking for a young coach who doesn’t mind using us as a stepping stone to get to a P5. There is no pot of gold at the end of Doc’s rainbow - you will never reach it. Time for courage and choose to demand better. We didn’t spend the last 49 years striving to reach higher only to settle for mediocre seasons and meaningless bowl wins for the next 20.....
Oh yeah..... we’re young! Bring on the Herd. Going to be a great season on the hardwood....

You overrate Hamrick as an AD. He did not want to hire DD and would fire him if he could because he's a wild card that doesn't think twice about pointing out Hamrick's BS when it comes to the basketball program.

Hamrick is exactly what ECU fans said he was there, good at facilities while being generally bad at managing the sports programs and specifically bad at hiring coaches. The only thing he really focuses on is fund raising to build stuff. That's important, but it's only a piece. We have won the least number of conference championships across all sports of any program in the conference. Middle and WKU put us to shame in that category.

We are in a horrible position being stuck in a far flung, Texas centric conference. Since CUSA is so bad, we would actually be better off in the Sunbelt or spearheading a realignment between CUSA and the Sunbelt that is more geographically friendly. That's an issue a good AD would be focused on fixing.

 

[Bankerreturns]

I think the fact that Hamrick is satisfied with our accomplishments under Doc is what makes him not very good. We simply need someone striving to be better than we are now. The fact we aren’t a doormat shouldn’t be reason enough to be happy.

IMO, if we can’t expect to beat or at least lose a very close game at home to likes of Cincinnati, NC State, etc. then we might as well just play money games and collect a fat check.

That's a good point. I would rather get blown out by Ohio State in Columbus and get $1.8MM then to get blown out by Cincinnati at home for free.

 

[Refiner's Fire]

There are currently 4 teams in our conference that have programs that have only began playing football about the time we entered the conference. That doesn’t even include one that stopped for a while and restarted. When a coach has been at a school for 10 years, he should have a system to maintain a high level of talent. Our talent NEVER seem to reach the expectations, maybe we don’t have the raw talent and maybe it doesn’t get developed. Either way, it’s on the coaching.

 

[i am herdman]

You overrate Hamrick as an AD. He did not want to hire DD and would fire him if he could because he's a wild card that doesn't think twice about pointing out Hamrick's BS when it comes to the basketball program.

Hamrick is exactly what ECU fans said he was there, good at facilities while being generally bad at managing the sports programs and specifically bad at hiring coaches. The only thing he really focuses on is fund raising to build stuff. That's important, but it's only a piece. We have won the least number of conference championships across all sports of any program in the conference. Middle and WKU put us to shame in that category.

We are in a horrible position being stuck in a far flung, Texas centric conference. Since CUSA is so bad, we would actually be better off in the Sunbelt or spearheading a realignment between CUSA and the Sunbelt that is more geographically friendly. That's an issue a good AD would be focused on fixing.

No vision!

 

[W-S HerdFan]

You overrate Hamrick as an AD. He did not want to hire DD and would fire him if he could because he's a wild card that doesn't think twice about pointing out Hamrick's BS when it comes to the basketball program.

Hamrick is exactly what ECU fans said he was there, good at facilities while being generally bad at managing the sports programs and specifically bad at hiring coaches. The only thing he really focuses on is fund raising to build stuff. That's important, but it's only a piece. We have won the least number of conference championships across all sports of any program in the conference. Middle and WKU put us to shame in that category.

We are in a horrible position being stuck in a far flung, Texas centric conference. Since CUSA is so bad, we would actually be better off in the Sunbelt or spearheading a realignment between CUSA and the Sunbelt that is more geographically friendly. That's an issue a good AD would be focused on fixing.

Banker et al: all due respect, which I do many of you that possess a much less filtered view of Marshall athletics than I, but you missed the most important point I was trying to make!
Name me an AD in your lifetime (whether you are 20 or 85 yrs young) that has accomplished more in terms of facilities than Mike.....no? Let me help you out:
I am told Charlie Kautz had the makings of a decent AD - killed in The Crash. Between his tenure and Kayo Marcum’s, who stands out as a visionary? Someone who took the job, assessed the current situation, went about creating a passion w/in the fan base/big $ donors, proposed new facilities, raised the dough re mi, recruited former players to assist in spearheading unprecedented campaigns, graduated athletes, was a better sales rep for the Herd AND avoided getting us mired in NC2A infractions, penalties, sanctions or expulsions?

......Take your time......let me know a name to place the #1 by other than Mike Hamrick. Be prepared to back up your choice with accomplishments, not pie-in-the-sky promises. One thing is certain: Any of the alternate choices will ALL have talked up the fantasy of having an on-campus baseball facility, however only MH has completed the purchase of the land, designed the park and is fund-raising to get the ground broken! No small feat at Marshall, that.....

 

[i am herdman]

Banker et al: all due respect, which I do many of you that possess a much less filtered view of Marshall athletics than I, but you missed the most important point I was trying to make!
Name me an AD in your lifetime (whether you are 20 or 85 yrs young) that has accomplished more in terms of facilities than Mike.....no? Let me help you out:
I am told Charlie Kautz had the makings of a decent AD - killed in The Crash. Between his tenure and Kayo Marcum’s, who stands out as a visionary? Someone who took the job, assessed the current situation, went about creating a passion w/in the fan base/big $ donors, proposed new facilities, raised the dough re mi, recruited former players to assist in spearheading unprecedented campaigns, graduated athletes, was a better sales rep for the Herd AND avoided getting us mired in NC2A infractions, penalties, sanctions or expulsions?

......Take your time......let me know a name to place the #1 by other than Mike Hamrick. Be prepared to back up your choice with accomplishments, not pie-in-the-sky promises. One thing is certain: Any of the alternate choices will ALL have talked up the fantasy of having an on-campus baseball facility, however only MH has completed the purchase of the land, designed the park and is fund-raising to get the ground broken! No small feat at Marshall, that.....

Banker, I believe, was agreeing with you in a certain regard. Hamrick has done well in terms of facilities. His sports teams performances have not been all that desirable and football is king and has been stagnant and not performing as it should. That's the beef.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Banker, I believe, was agreeing with you in a certain regard. Hamrick has done well in terms of facilities. His sports teams performances have not been all that desirable and football is king and has been stagnant and not performing as it should. That's the beef.

I read that. Who has done a better job in any regard than Hamrick? We have had many horribly shitty AD’s in my time. I can’t name a good one....can anyone? We are great at complaining, but who is MU going to hire on the salary we can afford and do better? I really would like to know...

 

[i am herdman]

I read that. Who has done a better job in any regard than Hamrick? We have had many horribly shitty AD’s in my time. I can’t name a good one....can anyone? We are great at complaining, but who is MU going to hire on the salary we can afford and do better? I really would like to know...

I don't care about the AD. I care about the football coach and winning more. One of Hamrick's short comings has been the football program

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I don't care about the AD. I care about the football coach and winning more.

You’re ducking the ? You’re acting like Sam....

 

[i am herdman]

You’re ducking the ? You’re acting like Sam....

Ducking what? I am not sure what I am ducking. Hamrick is a solid AD in terms of getting facilities built. He is not great at hiring coaches and his letting the football program slip into mediocrity is not good. Maybe he is the best AD. I really don't pay attention to AD's. The only AD's I remember are Hamrick, Marcum, Lance West, and maybe Lee Moon?

Hopefully, the football program can turn it around and get the to conf championship like I picked them to. I am worried about how badly we were beaten. Not that we lost but how we lost was troublesome. We have no been really all that great for a few years.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Name me an AD in your lifetime (whether you are 20 or 85 yrs young) that has accomplished more in terms of facilities than Mike.....no?

I don't see where Banker was questioning his ability with facilities.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Mike Hamrick (Marshall '80) Hired July 20, 2009

Bob Marcum (Marshall '59) 2002-09


Lance West (Idaho '85) 1996-2002

Lee Moon (VMI '70) 1988-96

x-Judy Southard (Coker '70) 1987-88

Dave Braine (North Carolina '65) 1985-87

x-Ed Starling (W.Va. State '51) 1984-85

Lynn Snyder (Illinois '64) 1979-84

Joe McMullen (Brown '45) 1971-79

x-Ed Starling (W.Va. State '51) 1970-71

Charles Kautz, 1970

 

[Bankerreturns]

As an extreme analogy - every year a kid wins the 100 yard dash at the special Olympics. That doesn't mean he's a world class sprinter. Don't fall in to the trap of greatness by comparison when the field is extremely weak. Remember that Hamrick was let go by ECU and UNLV. His one solid track record is in fund raising for facilities. He does a really good job of getting close to the right donors to accomplish this. I can't argue with that.

Maybe that means he would be perfect to run the MU Foundation. I don't think Ron Area has been particularly successful over there to the extent he should be. Let's see if we can get Gilbert to move him over there.

I measure ADs by the success of the programs, which includes winning, graduating athletes, and keeping the program reasonably clean and their ability to grow support and engage the fans.

 

[HuntersvilleHerd]

That's a good point. I would rather get blown out by Ohio State in Columbus and get $1.8MM then to get blown out by Cincinnati at home for free.

We did not get blown out at home “for free”... that was easily the most profitable game Marshall will have this school year in a revenue sport. MU will make well over $1M on a home football game attended by 32k+.