If you got FIVE QBs do you have any QBs?

[Herdguy04]

Unfortunate circumstances and coaching.

First the unfortunate circumstance that I believe was the catalyst event to derail the momentum created in 2013 and 2014. The transfer of Blake Frohnapfel. I full believe had he stayed he would have started in 2015 and we most likely run the table and probably repeat as conference champs. Him leaving derailed the staff's plans for succession and sped up Litton being put out there. Either he benefits from the redshirt year or we get a year to figure out he wasn't mature enough to play. This could have been avoided 4 years earlier when Doc made the mistake of burning Eric's redshirt for pretty much nothing. Both wanted to play with each other and by burning Eric's RS that put them off schedule. Had there been a possibility to play with Eric in 2015, I think Blake stays and the trajectory of the program is so much different.

Next the examples of poor coaching. Litton and Wells both had the talent to be very good QBs, but both were stunted by poor coaching. I can go through the instances where the staff made mistakes, but I won't because I'm not going to type all of it out.

So we could have kept the run going, but the process was messed up. It happens and it is on the staff to recover and they never did. The other thing that hurts in recruiting is having a Cato because every top shelf QB isn't looking our way because they don't want to sit. Litton and Wells were pretty well solidified starters as well with multiple years left on the table.

IMO the issue with Huff is that he never wanted to be here. Doc could recruit, but his staff was inconsistent in the development of talent and using them correctly. Like throwing deep fades to a 5'6" Moo Moo Smith as your X, but I digress. As I said Huff was never planning on being here more than a season or two. He saw a division champ roster with most of it's pieces with multiple seasons left returning and thought he'd cash out. Yes I know he was always leaving and we all were aware of that, but you still treat your current job like it's your permanent job because not doing so can burn you and it burnt him. Once Grant transferred, Huff has been in scramble mode to find a replacement and his first choice (Colombi) was another shot at cashing out early. That didn't work and the hole got deeper. Then he skipped taking a HS QB in 2023 and here we are. He's been depending on portal QBs that have washed out of other programs instead of even attempting to develop on himself. I know football has changed, but you can take a portal guy for the right now and one or two HS QBs for the future. The truth is with the portal the way it is right now there are more quality HS QBs available because of the QB merry-go-round we're seeing.

Marshall is not a program that struggles to get QBs. That is proven. It's all on the coaches for their efforts and philosophies. I also wonder if Huff just sucks at accessing QB talent.

Good lord this post went all over the place...
So you're blaming something that happened over a decade ago to now?
You're also negating Isaiah Green and Fancher, two QB's whom everyone would declare as being awful...so MU doesn't have a track record for good QB's.
Either that or the QB coaching isn't good. Pick one.

I think Huff initially wanted to be here to bolster his resume and skip town. Except he found himself stuck because he didn't do enough to really get out but he isn't very popular either.

 

[RhinoD]

"Coach Huff said this week’s practices will determine who his starting quarterback will be Saturday…says he feels all 3 can play at a high level "

So it's Earle / Parachek / Pennington?

Earle, Braxton, Pennington

Again, this is simple coach speak... The decision has been made at this point for Stony Brook. Huff is just trying to make sure the other two know they are still options if option one doesn't succeed, which is smart.

 

[mlblack16.]

…says he feels all 3 can play at a high school level "

So it's Earle / Parachek / Pennington?

The suspense is killing me

 

[BleedsGreen33]

So you're blaming something that happened over a decade ago to now?

That's when it all started. Once Blake left early it nuked Doc's plan for life after Cato. Him leaving early caused Litton to play earlier than he should have. He leaves early, then Green comes in and is a headcase, then we try Thomson and his arm is trash from injury, then Green goes back in and sucks, then Wells comes in looks alright then leaves because he didn't want to play for Huff and now because Huff didn't have Wells as he thought he's been throwing crap against the wall with washed out one year rentals.

If Blake is the starter in 2015 we most likely repeat as conference champs, Doc is viewed more favorably, there's more time to assess Litton, and we never end up with Huff as coach. Decade ago or not is was one of the main events that set chain of events off that led us here. Poor leadership has allowed it to continue to spiral.

You're also negating Isaiah Green and Fancher, two QB's whom everyone would declare as being awful...so MU doesn't have a track record for good QB's.

In the last 50 years we have had more good QBs than bad. Michael Payton, Eric Kresser, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich, Stan Hill (injury stunted his growth), and Rakeem Cato. There aren't a lot of G5s that get that many QBs in their program's existence. There are P5s that can't say that have had that many good QBs. So yes we have had a good track record.

Either that or the QB coaching isn't good. Pick one.

The coaching hasn't been good since 2016. When Bill Legg took over QB duties, QB development started to trend downward. He got to cash in on Tony's work with Cato and Chad worked a lot with him too, but when left to Legg that's when mechanics, behaviors, and playbook knowledge started to be an issue. Litton had the tools to be good, he was just rushed into because Blake leaving out of the blue and Birdsong not holding up long enough to bridge the gap.

Wells didn't get much support either from the staff. He started out strong, but when the season started to go off the rails the staff did very little to help him. We go back to that Rice game in 2020. We're down half the line and the replacement for RT is so hampered from previous injuries he couldn't block his shadow. Still deep in our own territory Cramsey and Doc forget all about Knox and just keep dialing up long developing pass plays for Wells. When he attempted that throw and it went backwards out of his hands he should have been pulled for a series or should have started feeding Knox. Nope instead we decide to let Wells continue to get his head ripped off and call plays that have him running for his life. Also forgetting a player like Xavier Gaines that can play QB, RB, TE, and every WR position. No let's not use him at all until under 2 minutes to go in the first half of the CUSA championship game where the staff finally realizes their young freshman QB's head is swimming. Oh and what do we draw up? Gaines chucking prayers.

So yes the staff's mismanagement hurt us in both cases.

No with the other QBs it's different. Birdsong was a stop gap to bridge the gap between Cato and Litton and got hurt in the first game, Green was headcase that couldn't learn the playbook, Thomson's shoulder was trashed before he got here, Colombi had red flags all over him. Coaching wasn't the issue here because good coaching wasn't fixing what was wrong.

Fancher could fit in either category. He was more of a runner than a passer, but if used correctly his arm was at least serviceable. Instead we just decided to make him a pocket passer. Fancher/Ali/Payne could have been a poor man's White/Slayton/Schmitt.

I think Huff initially wanted to be here to bolster his resume and skip town. Except he found himself stuck because he didn't do enough to really get out but he isn't very popular either.

That's exactly what he did. He was looking past us to the P5. I get that he wanted to move on and we all assumed he would, but you still treat this job like you actually wanted it. He thought with taking over a division championship team that was returning the majority of its part he could parlay that into a quick move up so he never recruited like he was going to be here past year 2. Then Wells left and he brought in Colombi in hopes he'd give him one year, but ignored all the red flags on him. Now we're rinsing and repeating.

Cam was forced into early action because of Colombi going down and was used poorly.
Braylon Braxton has ankle injury was bad enough that he never got his job back.
Stone Earle looks like Colombi. Never able to maintain the starting position and bounces around. Maybe his 3rd school will be the charm.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Earle, Braxton, Pennington

Again, this is simple coach speak... The decision has been made at this point for Stony Brook. Huff is just trying to make sure the other two know they are still options if option one doesn't succeed, which is smart.

It sounds more to me like he's still playing the shell game so he can hide the starter from Stony Brook. Huff knows exactly who he wants to start.

He's also probably trying to build anticipation for the game this Saturday. Come out and see who won the job.

 

[19MU88]

Good lord this post went all over the place...
So you're blaming something that happened over a decade ago to now?
You're also negating Isaiah Green and Fancher, two QB's whom everyone would declare as being awful...

Tom Herman thinks you are mistaken.

 

[Herdguy04]

That's when it all started. Once Blake left early it nuked Doc's plan for life after Cato. Him leaving early caused Litton to play earlier than he should have. He leaves early, then Green comes in and is a headcase, then we try Thomson and his arm is trash from injury, then Green goes back in and sucks, then Wells comes in looks alright then leaves because he didn't want to play for Huff and now because Huff didn't have Wells as he thought he's been throwing crap against the wall with washed out one year rentals.

If Blake is the starter in 2015 we most likely repeat as conference champs, Doc is viewed more favorably, there's more time to assess Litton, and we never end up with Huff as coach. Decade ago or not is was one of the main events that set chain of events off that led us here. Poor leadership has allowed it to continue to spiral.



In the last 50 years we have had more good QBs than bad. Michael Payton, Eric Kresser, Chad Pennington, Byron Leftwich, Stan Hill (injury stunted his growth), and Rakeem Cato. There aren't a lot of G5s that get that many QBs in their program's existence. There are P5s that can't say that have had that many good QBs. So yes we have had a good track record.



The coaching hasn't been good since 2016. When Bill Legg took over QB duties, QB development started to trend downward. He got to cash in on Tony's work with Cato and Chad worked a lot with him too, but when left to Legg that's when mechanics, behaviors, and playbook knowledge started to be an issue. Litton had the tools to be good, he was just rushed into because Blake leaving out of the blue and Birdsong not holding up long enough to bridge the gap.

Wells didn't get much support either from the staff. He started out strong, but when the season started to go off the rails the staff did very little to help him. We go back to that Rice game in 2020. We're down half the line and the replacement for RT is so hampered from previous injuries he couldn't block his shadow. Still deep in our own territory Cramsey and Doc forget all about Knox and just keep dialing up long developing pass plays for Wells. When he attempted that throw and it went backwards out of his hands he should have been pulled for a series or should have started feeding Knox. Nope instead we decide to let Wells continue to get his head ripped off and call plays that have him running for his life. Also forgetting a player like Xavier Gaines that can play QB, RB, TE, and every WR position. No let's not use him at all until under 2 minutes to go in the first half of the CUSA championship game where the staff finally realizes their young freshman QB's head is swimming. Oh and what do we draw up? Gaines chucking prayers.

So yes the staff's mismanagement hurt us in both cases.

No with the other QBs it's different. Birdsong was a stop gap to bridge the gap between Cato and Litton and got hurt in the first game, Green was headcase that couldn't learn the playbook, Thomson's shoulder was trashed before he got here, Colombi had red flags all over him. Coaching wasn't the issue here because good coaching wasn't fixing what was wrong.

Fancher could fit in either category. He was more of a runner than a passer, but if used correctly his arm was at least serviceable. Instead we just decided to make him a pocket passer. Fancher/Ali/Payne could have been a poor man's White/Slayton/Schmitt.



That's exactly what he did. He was looking past us to the P5. I get that he wanted to move on and we all assumed he would, but you still treat this job like you actually wanted it. He thought with taking over a division championship team that was returning the majority of its part he could parlay that into a quick move up so he never recruited like he was going to be here past year 2. Then Wells left and he brought in Colombi in hopes he'd give him one year, but ignored all the red flags on him. Now we're rinsing and repeating.

Cam was forced into early action because of Colombi going down and was used poorly.
Braylon Braxton has ankle injury was bad enough that he never got his job back.
Stone Earle looks like Colombi. Never able to maintain the starting position and bounces around. Maybe his 3rd school will be the charm.

The biggest problem with what you're saying is it's entirely an opinion and not any sort of fact.
You make it sound like Blake was upset he wasn't starting. Except according to the UMass website, he earned his undergrad degree in May of 2014 from MU and transferred with eligibility to play immediately. I'm not sure about how it would have worked out at MU but he really made the choice himself...and I doubt Doc or anyone would have told him to not be so smart as to not graduate in 3 years with a 3.65 GPA and pursue his MBA.

So there's that.

MU did have bright spots with all their QB's since then. Even Green had 3 game winning drives before losing his mind.
I sense it simply came down to inconsistencies at QB and the adjustments of the various weaknesses and strengths was tough on the offense to adjust to each year...and for the coaches to recruit on.
That, and the trend of how football was going, it was a bit of a miracle MU was able to actually improve after 2016.

But going all the way back to 2015 for things going on in 2024, where there have been upsides in various areas, including an offense and team who beat top 10 Notre Dame AT Notre Dame, is a huge stretch.

As for your analysis on Huff as a HC:

You must be new to college football and the G5...welcome! On behalf of the teams and everyone trying to tread water, let me be the first to tell you:
Coaches have little to zero alliances to the programs in the G5.
Their idea of success is literally anything that can get them to the next level.

 

[Herdguy04]

It sounds more to me like he's still playing the shell game so he can hide the starter from Stony Brook. Huff knows exactly who he wants to start.

He's also probably trying to build anticipation for the game this Saturday. Come out and see who won the job.

If that's the case, I don't find that to be a bad thing.