Is Jesus Black or White

[GK4Herd]

DNA may not lie, but it can be misunderstood, or there could be data missing that is vital. Bottom line, man did not just spring up somewhere. A man was created by God. That man was not a cave dwelling mouth breather. That man, the first man ever, had a son who was intelligent insomuch that he built a city.
Genesis 4:17

There's no doubt we don't understand completely the exact way man spread across the world. That's why there are competing theories. But we know enough to have a good idea. But both of the arguments with me since I've entered the thread have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. You are arguing creationism. I'm not. Ohio Herd is arguing the location of Biblical Eden. I'm not. I'm simply saying that there is evidence that all modern man has ancestral roots that can be traced back to Africa.

I do have a question though. We have evidence through fossil history that archaic man like species such as homo erectus, Neanderthal, Denisovan, etc. predated our early ancestors. Do you believe from a biblical point of view that these archaic species were descendants of biblical Adam and Eve or do you believe they existed when Adam and Eve came on the scene?

 

[i am herdman]

Why do people worry about stuff like this? Honesty, it might be interesting but why fight over it?

 

[Marine03]

Why do people worry about stuff like this? Honesty, it might be interesting but why fight over it?

I don't, I don't have the answers to any of these questions. I figure I have about 40 good years left in me, then I'll get the answer to every question I ever had.

 

[herdit44]

I don't, I don't have the answers to any of these questions. I figure I have about 40 good years left in me, then I'll get the answer to every question I ever had.

or not

 

[Marine03]

or not

If not, what have I lost? I didn't know it when I was on earth, I don't guess it'll make a difference when I no longer walk it.

 

[GK4Herd]

If not, what have I lost? I didn't know it when I was on earth, I don't guess it'll make a difference when I no longer walk it.

I'm kind of the opposite. If this is truly all there is and there's nothing when we're gone, not taking that small window to contemplate the nature of our existence would be a waste of it. Looking out on the universe on a clear night and feeling wonder and awe hits on something primal within us. I believe it links us to our ancestors in that regard and explains the existence and need for religion. That curiosity has advanced humanity in leaps and bounds in such a short time. Even when I know I will likely never know, I still got to look and Science gives me my most satisfying answers.

 

[extragreen]

GK, with all due respect, and realizing that you're not an overly religious type guy, there is nothing more satisfying than knowing in the heart that God created this universe and man to live in it. And then loved us so much that he was willing to offer his son as a way for us to be reconciled to him. You mentioned looking out on the universe, most of us have felt that feeling of wonder. I think God had an answer for that in this verse "Be still, and know that I am God."
We here a lot about faith, and rightfully so. Without it, we cannot please God. Faith in what? That he exists? No. Faith that he is a keeper of his promises and his covenant with man. I don't have faith that God exists, I know that he exists, and I know this because I can feel his presence in my life, and that cannot be explained to anyone that doesn't have it. People say to me and others, "you have no proof." Oh yes I do. Jesus wasn't talking just to be talking when he said "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. Hope this isn't taken in any other way than an attempt to explain my point of view when it comes to man's place here in this life.

 

[herdfan429]

Xenu disagrees with you extra

 

[GK4Herd]

Hope this isn't taken in any other way than an attempt to explain my point of view when it comes to man's place here in this life.

Of course I don't take offense to what you say. I respect everyone's belief and hope they are at peace because of that belief. One of the problems with message boards is that once an antagonistic relationship develops with people (like with you and fever with most of the board), its no longer about opinion, but about that personal antagonism. The point gets lost in all of the vitriol. I think that comes down to the difference in how people view these boards. Some people just have fun trying to demean someone else. I don't personally get it.

But I want my opinion considered whether it is agreed with or not. That's why I try to consider other people's opinion whether I agree with it or not. That allows for meaningful exchange of ideas...the reason I like these boards. I sometimes even change my mind on things. But this much I know, by respecting other people's argument, agree or disagree, you are more apt to be heard. You don't agree with me on many science things, but you didn't call me an idiot and take an antagonistic tone. Disagree all you want. That never offends me.

As far as the discussion...yeah, I do need the evidence that science brings. I'm fully aware that science doesn't explain everything. But if humanity didn't pursue science against the belief system of the church, we'd all be thinking that universe evolves around a stationary earth.

 

[extragreen]

Xenu disagrees with you extra

Attaboy 429, proving your ignorance is what you do best.

 

[NoMoreIdiots]

Why do people worry about stuff like this?

With the pantry full, the mind has to wander somewhere.

 

[herdfan429]

Attaboy 429, proving your ignorance is what you do best.

Still a sensitive subject I see

 

[Marine03]

I'm kind of the opposite. If this is truly all there is and there's nothing when we're gone, not taking that small window to contemplate the nature of our existence would be a waste of it. Looking out on the universe on a clear night and feeling wonder and awe hits on something primal within us. I believe it links us to our ancestors in that regard and explains the existence and need for religion. That curiosity has advanced humanity in leaps and bounds in such a short time. Even when I know I will likely never know, I still got to look and Science gives me my most satisfying answers.

I won't tell you I don't think about this stuff from time to time but I don't put much energy into research, etc, etc. I wonder more about life outside our universe than I do where our life came from on earth.

 

[extragreen]

Still a sensitive subject I see

Nope, just gets old after several years.

 

[ohio herd]

Of course I don't take offense to what you say. I respect everyone's belief and hope they are at peace because of that belief. One of the problems with message boards is that once an antagonistic relationship develops with people (like with you and fever with most of the board), its no longer about opinion, but about that personal antagonism. The point gets lost in all of the vitriol. I think that comes down to the difference in how people view these boards. Some people just have fun trying to demean someone else. I don't personally get it.

But I want my opinion considered whether it is agreed with or not. That's why I try to consider other people's opinion whether I agree with it or not. That allows for meaningful exchange of ideas...the reason I like these boards. I sometimes even change my mind on things. But this much I know, by respecting other people's argument, agree or disagree, you are more apt to be heard. You don't agree with me on many science things, but you didn't call me an idiot and take an antagonistic tone. Disagree all you want. That never offends me.

As far as the discussion...yeah, I do need the evidence that science brings. I'm fully aware that science doesn't explain everything. But if humanity didn't pursue science against the belief system of the church, we'd all be thinking that universe evolves around a stationary earth.

Just curious can you test a sunset? How do we know if it is beautiful or not?

 

[herdfan429]

Just curious can you test a sunset? How do we know if it is beautiful or not?

And what exactly does that have to do with our current discussion? I'll go ahead and answer absolutely NOTHING

 

[ARandomHerdFan]

Obligatory:

 

[Herd Fever]

There's no doubt we don't understand completely the exact way man spread across the world. That's why there are competing theories. But we know enough to have a good idea. But both of the arguments with me since I've entered the thread have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. You are arguing creationism. I'm not. Ohio Herd is arguing the location of Biblical Eden. I'm not. I'm simply saying that there is evidence that all modern man has ancestral roots that can be traced back to Africa.

I do have a question though. We have evidence through fossil history that archaic man like species such as homo erectus, Neanderthal, Denisovan, etc. predated our early ancestors. Do you believe from a biblical point of view that these archaic species were descendants of biblical Adam and Eve or do you believe they existed when Adam and Eve came on the scene?

It does mention in the bible that there was other species of Humans on earth that didn't leave in Eden. These are the people Adam and Eve encountered when they was banished from Eden.

 

[GK4Herd]

Just curious can you test a sunset? How do we know if it is beautiful or not?

Well I admit you lost me on this one. This sounds a little like a Carl Sagan line from Contact where Ellie challenges Father Joss to prove the existence of God. ..

Palmer Joss: Did you love your father?

Ellie Arroway: What?

Palmer Joss: Your dad. Did you love him?

Ellie Arroway: Yes, very much.

Palmer Joss: Prove it.


So if what you're saying is that not everything can be proven by science and we must act on faith for the explanation of things I understand your point, but don't find it particularly relevant to tne discussion. If I don't get your point elaborate.

 

[extragreen]

It does mention in the bible that there was other species of Humans on earth that didn't leave in Eden. These are the people Adam and Eve encountered when they was banished from Eden.

I don't remember reading that. You have a Book and chapter?

 

[Herd Fever]

Read Genesis 4

 

[extragreen]

Read Genesis 4

Nothing in that chapter that I can find.

 

[Herd Fever]

Read verse 16 and 17 and what was east of Eden and Cain wife and noticed it doesn't mention her name. She was on of the unsaved people of earth

 

[extragreen]

Gen 4
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

 

[ohio herd]

It does mention in the bible that there was other species of Humans on earth that didn't leave in Eden. These are the people Adam and Eve encountered when they was banished from Eden.

could you cite chapter and verse, not what Genesis 4 is talking about

 

[GK4Herd]

After a quick search on this, there are two groups of thoughts among theologians...those who believe that Adam and Eve were God's only creation and every man their descendants and those who believe that God created others besides Adam and Eve. The predominate group believe that Adam and Eve were the only creation (which appears to be the belief on this board). There is even a group of biblical scholars who subscribe to a Pre-Adamite theory that humans existed before Adam.

So Fever just didn't pull this out of the air. There are those who legitimately believe that God created others. From a scientific point of view, the Pre-Adamite belief and the belief that God created others is more palatable.

Here is a fantastic article (in that it lays out the different beliefs) that gives a very simple and understandable explanation of the different schools of thought. It also provides different links to other articles that you can increase your understanding of this argument.

https://bittersweetend.wordpress.co...er-adam-and-eve-where-did-cain-find-his-wife/

 

[extragreen]

The Bible clearly states that Adam was the first man.

 

[ohio herd]

After a quick search on this, there are two groups of thoughts among theologians...those who believe that Adam and Eve were God's only creation and every man their descendants and those who believe that God created others besides Adam and Eve. The predominate group believe that Adam and Eve were the only creation (which appears to be the belief on this board). There is even a group of biblical scholars who subscribe to a Pre-Adamite theory that humans existed before Adam.

So Fever just didn't pull this out of the air. There are those who legitimately believe that God created others. From a scientific point of view, the Pre-Adamite belief and the belief that God created others is more palatable.

Here is a fantastic article (in that it lays out the different beliefs) that gives a very simple and understandable explanation of the different schools of thought. It also provides different links to other articles that you can increase your understanding of this argument.

https://bittersweetend.wordpress.co...er-adam-and-eve-where-did-cain-find-his-wife/

okay, now I understand where he is coming from. I will not get into the reasons why the "Gap Theory" is not held by bible scholars but will acknowledge some Christians do hold to this view.I would say, and do not mean to be a know it all, but this is my area of study,that there are no credible bible scholar who holds this view that I am aware of.

 

[GK4Herd]

The Bible clearly states that Adam was the first man.

Not arguing...just pointing out that there are those who believe differently...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite

And I agree that the bible is more definitive on that point. But what I'm trying to point out is that there isn't definitive agreement on the point that everyone is trying to run Fever down on. He has a basis for his statement and that belief is held by many. But the problem is that more people on here (not saying you, because you fall on his side often) are more interested in trying to catch someone being an "idiot" or a "moron" than they are in listening to his point. I'm very unknowledgeable about bible things, but it took me all of ten minutes to research enough to show that his statements represent a point held by others. It also took me that amount if time to figure out that the school of thought that others were created by God is more palatable with known science.

That's the problem with subscribing to schools of thought in a manner that you shut off all outside opinion. Be it liberalism, conservatism, or Fever is an Idiotism...you become deaf to any outside view and the chance to have meaningful discussion is lost in the name calling.

 

[GK4Herd]

I've never seen this before, but the article I linked addressed these inconsistencies...



The Order of Creation

Genesis 1:11-12 and 1:26-27 Trees came before Adam.
Genesis 2:4-9 Trees came after Adam.

Genesis 1:20-21 and 26-27 Birds were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Birds were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:24-27 Animals were created before Adam.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:19 Animals were created after Adam.

Genesis 1:26-27 Adam and Eve were created at the same time.
Genesis 2:7 and 2:21-22 Adam was created first, woman sometime later.

Genesis 1:31 God was pleased with his creation.
Genesis 6:5-6 God was not pleased with his creation.

What are you guys thinking on this?

 

[extragreen]

Not arguing...just pointing out that there are those who believe differently...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite

And I agree that the bible is more definitive on that point. But what I'm trying to point out is that there isn't definitive agreement on the point that everyone is trying to run Fever down on. He has a basis for his statement and that belief is held by many. But the problem is that more people on here (not saying you, because you fall on his side often) are more interested in trying to catch someone being an "idiot" or a "moron" than they are in listening to his point. I'm very unknowledgeable about bible things, but it took me all of ten minutes to research enough to show that his statements represent a point held by others. It also took me that amount if time to figure out that the school of thought that others were created by God is more palatable with known science.

That's the problem with subscribing to schools of thought in a manner that you shut off all outside opinion. Be it liberalism, conservatism, or Fever is an Idiotism...you become deaf to any outside view and the chance to have meaningful discussion is lost in the name calling.

Name the people "trying to run Fever down" regarding this subject.

Maybe the problem here is you are simply head over heels in love with any school of thought on creationism that is "palatable with known science." That's the problem with subscribing to schools of thought in a manner that you shut off all outside opinion.

 

[WV-FAN]

our father left over 2,000 years ago and said he'd be back and we haven't seen him since. gotta be black.

 

[GK4Herd]

Nope EG...I've been very respectful toward the religious viewpoint on this thread and have simply laid out the different schools of thought in a very non partisan way. Of course I agree more with the scientific view of things. There's more tangible evidence than the all the biblical interpretations. I've never denied my personal feelings on it. But if there was some tangible evidence proving biblical creationism I'd certainly change my mind. But I honestly don't believe you would if the opposite happened.

And if you don't see how people are setting Fever up for ridicule on this thread about his statement...one that I showed clearly is held by other religious scholars...you're not looking very hard. People do you the same way at times. I'd defend you as well.

 

[WV-FAN]

 

[extragreen]

Nope EG...I've been very respectful toward the religious viewpoint on this thread and have simply laid out the different schools of thought in a very non partisan way. Of course I agree more with the scientific view of things. There's more tangible evidence than the all the biblical interpretations. I've never denied my personal feelings on it. But if there was some tangible evidence proving biblical creationism I'd certainly change my mind. But I honestly don't believe you would if the opposite happened.

And if you don't see how people are setting Fever up for ridicule on this thread about his statement...one that I showed clearly is held by other religious scholars...you're not looking very hard. People do you the same way at times. I'd defend you as well.

I don't see the first disrespectful thing said to either Fever or you on this subject. So if you can see someone setting him up for ridicule then you're seeing something I don't. I don't expect there to ever be tangible evidence supporting biblical creationism. I believe science is beneficial, but it has no sway with spirituality. Science, as a field, would deny spiritual things exist as there is no scientific "evidence" to support it that I can think of. Scientific methodology is not the proper method to study religion. It cannot prove or disprove a thing such as love, it cannot prove or disprove that Christ lived. As of this moment, even the most scientifically minded scientist would have to consider the possibility that "life" did not come from nature. And that leaves science with an infinitely mind boggling question insomuch that science doesn't even have an agreed upon definition of life, nor do we know how something we take for granted occurs or originates....thought. It's a big, big universe, inside and out.

 

[GK4Herd]

"I don't see the first disrespectful thing said to either you or Fever on this subject."

Never said me. I've always been treated very respectfully here. I kind of like to think it has a little to do with how I treat others. But since you missed it...

Don't know much about the Jewish Race...enlighten me on that, Fev...or is religion synonymous with race in your little obtuse world?

There are no races of Jews, Christians, nor Muslims since none of these 3 groups qualify as a "race".

If you are going to retain your well deserved status as the board's biggest racist, you really do need some help on understanding the difference between "races" and "religions".

Chime in, E-green

E-green,
Please put that into stick man form and explain it to your twin

Hey E---just what do YOU not understand about "explain it to him".

Even YOU can't be that brain-dead !!!

Hey E---do another stick man figure for you twin on "Lyman"...Ah, hell, just forget it...you're worse than he is about begging for explainations of things. Carry on, guys...hope you both get a new box of crayons for Christmas.

Fever just wants everybody on here to call him a n!gger and threaten to burn a cross in his yard.

It would take a closet the size of Boeing's largest to conceal a racist Fev's size...and despite Fev's frequent racist
flare-ups, seems like everyone on the board likes him...he just needs to tone it down a little with the Ghetto-lovin'
rhetoric.

How about Legg just burning his playbook on Fev's yard?

Perfect thread, started by a racist, then taken off track by a hypocrite. Good to see Greed offering up some of that good Christian behavior this Sunday morning.

Don't let greed know that. LMAO

Greed is the biggest idiot now.

Greed is good. Fever is ruining it though.

He garbage dawg.

Only the trashy idiot ones like you. Not the good ones.

 

[GK4Herd]

Nope...no disrespect here...

 

[extragreen]

The subject I was talking about in which there was no disrespect is the discussion regarding Fever's statement: "It does mention in the bible that there was other species of Humans on earth that didn't leave in Eden. These are the people Adam and Eve encountered when they was banished from Eden." Which is why I qualified my statement by saying:"Name the people "trying to run Fever down" regarding this subject." I know people disrespect Fever all the time.

 

[GK4Herd]

Got it. My only point really is that because of that disrespect people miss legitimate input. The disrespect doesn't bother me because I'm concerned someone is being mistreated. Hell...if Fever couldn't handle it he wouldn't keep coming back. The same for you in that regard. But what I really dislike is that threads that have potential for interesting discussion seem to fall into this middle school type name calling where everyone is calling each other idiots. I mean...doesn't that get boring?

Well...when I think about it, my science stuff probably hits on the dry side as well.

 

[Herd Fever]

Hey atleast I take the disrespect in stride.

But yes Extra, Adam and Eve but especially their children Cain and Abel encountered other people on earth. The unchosen, the wicked, the undesirable ones who God created from the Dirt and would return to the dirt upon death. Adam and Eve was the chosen, enlightened ones until they ate from the Tree of Knowledge