Just got home from Ohio game

[ohio herd]

Okay my thoughts on the team. We don't hit the boards hard enough. They killed us on the boards tonight.Part of it was they have more big guys but part of it is we stand around look instead of crashing. We take too many ill advised 3's. We need to be more selective.Overall we are young and I thought we showed some hustle and heart. I hope everyone will stick with this team. Not going to happen overnight. I think we have a chance once some of these kids grow some. I would say both of the new Euros IMO are better than the 2 from last year. Burkes and Browning are solid.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Interesting. I was in the Convo this evening and agree with most of your post. To me Burkes and Browning are ok. Are they true D1 players? If so who recruited them. Not saying they are not good players but we are going to need a lot better players than those two and pretty much the rest of the team. The Serbs well. JMO

 

[greengeezer]

I was looking over the remaining schedule for this season, and we will be lucky to win six games.

 

[herdalicious]

I'll be surprised if we win two. Honestly, this is the worst D-1 basketball team I've ever seen.

If there is anyone among you who still thinks chasing an NBA coach for seven months only to settle on his brother wasn't the worst AD move in the history of common sense, speak now.

 

[Marshallidiot22]

Give Dan's system time. That's all I have to say.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Give Dan's system time! Seems like we've heard this over and over since Huck left! One thing. If you recall Dan said if he was not winning in three years he would quit. This is year two and it really is hard to see any improvement - yet. So yes I guess we can wait. Just so painful to watch.

 

[dshoe123]

Systems are systems............they ALL work if you have enough TALENT!!!! It is important for the talent to "match" they system, no doubt, but you can't and won't win without TALENT.

That said, some systems require time to learn and experience to execute........ but you still need good talent to be a good team

 

[flairforherd]

Give Dan's system time! Seems like we've heard this over and over since Huck left! One thing. If you recall Dan said if he was not winning in three years he would quit. This is year two and it really is hard to see any improvement - yet. So yes I guess we can wait. Just so painful to watch.

And the rebuilding project is now in year 29! LOL

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Hamrick will give him 4-5 years to turn it around. Its Hamricks hire. Plus Dan is a legend at MU and his brother more so. Not to mention Mike's involvement in the Vision Campaign and his donations. Dan will likely "retire' before being fired. jmo

 

[19MU88]

I've stayed neutral on DD. I told folks that the honeymoon would be over likely in year two and definitely year three if the losing continues. They were like no way, not a Dantoni. You hear it starting to build on the net, it will show itself in the home crowds (verbally and empty seats) mid to late season if we don't see significant improvement. Twolf, you may be right, since he is a Dantoni he may get extended time from Hamrick. But BB can be turned around very quickly, 4-5 years is way to long. My guess is he will resign on his own if next year is a failure, afterall he did say we would be competing for a league title by next year.

I don't understand his schedule - I like playing a tough schedule if you are good/decent. But this year is the year of all years he should have been scheduling down for this team to develop. He should have called DJ or Greg W to make his schedule this year.

 

[GreenDuke]

There are different types of contracts and different types of donations and different levels of involvement.

 

[anon_0314hp8ssprnn]

On the time it takes to turn around a basketball program I have just 2 words and 4 letters...Kevin Keatts UNCW.

 

[BWineman]

Every year following the NCAA Tournament some obscure team makes a Cinderella run through the NCAA tournament and the coach on that team is appointed the "Next Big Thing". Along comes an AD from a struggling power conference and they hire themselves a hot new coach to "turn this program around". The program shows minimal improvements over a year, maybe two, and then they slide right back into the abyss. The AD gets fired and so on and so on.

The reason these Cinderella teams make their run is less about the coach and more about the talent he recruited. This next statement isn't meant to blow anyone's mind but sometimes gets forgotten during fan rants. It is a fact that most of the time, the teams with more talent win more games than those with sub-par talent. Enlightening, I know.

This Marshall team is not talent ridden. They have, at most, 3-4 bona fide Division I players (I lean more towards 1-2). The boys work hard on the floor and I appreciate that a great deal. They hustle and have the desire to win but they are fighting an uphill battle. I will continue to attend every home game and the occasional road trip like the one last night to the Convo. I continue to do this because I support The Herd through good times and bad. The current times are as bad as I can remember and I remember the Dwight Freeman years clearly.

Dan is a good man, a born leader, and a true ambassador for Marshall University. I am convinced he knows the game of basketball and thoroughly enjoys teaching it to young kids. He has more energy than most guys half his age and has a contagious personality that brings a smile to most people he comes in contact with. The problem is the talent that he puts on the floor isn’t good enough to compete for 40 minutes with the teams that we have played. It’s that simple.

Dan said from day one he was going to get local guys and lesser known foreign players. He was going to teach these guys the system and how to play the game correctly. He said it wasn't going to be an overnight fix. We are now about 20 months into this project and, I think it's fair to say, it is behind schedule. I'm not quite ready to jump ship though. I can hang in there another 16 months. At that point, I'm certain the powers that be will make a determination as to where the program is and where it needs to be heading. Hopefully, over the remaining part of this season and next season we start to see some positives things happening for Marshall basketball. Keep the faith!

 

[bbneutralfan]

BW what 3-4 "bona fide" D1 players, in your opinion, do we have? I will give you Taylor and Kelly - the only two players on the team and Kelly the only former D1 recruit. Everyone believes that Jon Elmore is going to save the team. Wrong. He went to VMI with his brother because daddy went there. None of the other players were recruited by any D1 programs. That said leads one to ask if DD and his staff know how to evaluate the kids coming out of high school. Danny wants his team to play the way his did at Marshall and I like that. However, he does not have the players to run that way. Oh they can run but can't shoot a lick and that makes you wonder what goes on in practice for the money being paid to Danny and his assistants.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

BW what 3-4 "bona fide" D1 players, in your opinion, do we have? I will give you Taylor and Kelly - the only two players on the team and Kelly the only former D1 recruit. Everyone believes that Jon Elmore is going to save the team. Wrong. He went to VMI with his brother because daddy went there. None of the other players were recruited by any D1 programs. That said leads one to ask if DD and his staff know how to evaluate the kids coming out of high school. Danny wants his team to play the way his did at Marshall and I like that. However, he does not have the players to run that way. Oh they can run but can't shoot a lick and that makes you wonder what goes on in practice for the money being paid to Danny and his assistants.

Ryan Taylor was committed to Louisville out of HS and Elmore had a bunch of other D1 offers before choosing VMI. Justin Edmunds and Terrence Thompson had other D1 offers, too.

The Bledsoe kid we just signed for 2016 had a number of D1 offers as well.

We aren't very talented and I'm not arguing otherwise. Just pointing out a few inaccuracies in your post.

 

[marshallmark]

Burks is a D-1 talent. Not sure yet what level, but he can compete at C-USA. Loop showed last year he can compete in this conference, as well. He's certainly in a funk so far this year, though.

 

[ohio herd]

It is easy to see that this is not a "big dance" team. However, for the life of me I don't understand all of the attacks over where we are. Sooner or later you have to take a long term approach to build a great team. I just took a few minutes and looked at our yearly results since 1960.It is not like we have been a powerhouse. A couple good years when DD played and a couple when his brother Mike played. Then a dry spell and we get spoiled in the 80's with "Hucks Herd" for 7-8 years! Then since the 90's it has been a 20 win season here and a 20 win season there. For goodness sake Herrion is one of the only coaches we have ever had to have more than 1 twenty win season. Greg White is another. Both of them were run out of town.
Now to my point. Rome wasn't built in a day and neither will this program. DD has an concept that is IMO worth getting behind and supporting. Considering our sporadic past I see no reason for us not to give this a chance to work. If it doesn't it is not the first time. I submit we are playing a more challenging schedule which should make most of you happy since all I hear about the football team is our poor SOS. In the near future we will not be able to recruit the 5 star types. All we can hope for is to find the next JR Vanhouse, Tamar Slay types. Guess what? One was a WV kid and the other right across the river in KY. Bringing in headcase guys has caused us plenty of grief and still no invites to the Big Dance. I am making no predictions on where we end up in the next couple of years. I am saying I am on board and pulling for the Herd. I really am curious to see where we end up. Dozic and Penava have an upside and will need more than 4 games to get there.Burks the same. Anxious to see what Elmore brings to the mix.

 

[BWineman]

BBNeutralfan: I stated in the post I made that I lean more towards 1-2 bona fide players. Obviously, Ryan Taylor can play D-1 basketball competitively. James Kelly seems like he can as well, but there have been a few concerns early on this year.


As for the rest of the guys that have been mentioned as having other D-1 offers, the rosters of every D-1 school in the country are “finished off” with some kids (oftentimes local kids) that get good grades, work hard on and off the court, and show up everyday with their attitude in check. These kids are often the backbone to the program because they are four year guys that can help mentor the newbees. Sometimes these kids develop into nice players and have solid careers. The issue with the Marshall roster is simple, we have a bunch of those guys and they are all newbees. That’s why I am hanging in there for now. Hopefully, one or two of these guys develop into players and/or leaders.

 

[CockyHerd]

On a positive note......I will say, I have been very impressed by the improvement of Burks. He could not shoot at all in high school. He was just physically stronger than most everyone he played against.

He had zero offers to play basketball.....Anywhere. Academics may have been the reason behind that.....Rumor was that he shouldn't have been eligible during Hedgesville's State Championship run.

He clearly worked his tail off last year.....By himself. Good for him.

 

[herdalicious]

1) It's not "Dan's System," it's Mike's System. Dan never coached above the high school level. He was a handler on a few NBA staffs who got his job solely through nepotism. He is in no way qualified to coach a college basketball team above the NAIA level.

2) He will get all the "time" in the world - no one cares about Marshall basketball, and more and more, I think that's the plan. We barely have the resources to compete in football in a conference made up almost entirely of FCS-level teams. All that upward mobility we had circa 2008-2012 made one of the easiest AD jobs in the country too complicated; you can't be blame for a program's collapse if it never gets up off the floor.

3) We are attempting to play NCAA Division I basketball with a team made up of Division II and NAIA-level talent. This is because our coaching staff has no experience or contacts within the national AAU circuit, leaving us to pick the bones of Single A WV HS basketball and poor, desolate eastern bloc nations.

4) We held the door for an NBA coach that anyone in their right mind knew had no interest in coaching our program, until we were stuck with no options except - not so coincidentally - hiring said coach's unqualified brother. The sooner you accept the absurd innanity of that, the better off you'll be.

5) If this carpetbagging yahoo tosses one more ounce of shade toward Bob Huggins, I'm going to the Civic Center in Mountie gear, plopping down in the sea of empties behind Marshall's bench and letting Dandy Dan listen to it for 40:00.







.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

1) It's not "Dan's System," it's Mike's System. Dan never coached above the high school level. He was a handler on a few NBA staffs who got his job solely through nepotism. He is in no way qualified to coach a college basketball team above the NAIA level.

2) He will get all the "time" in the world - no one cares about Marshall basketball, and more and more, I think that's the plan. We barely have the resources to compete in football in a conference made up almost entirely of FCS-level teams. All that upward mobility we had circa 2008-2012 made one of the easiest AD jobs in the country too complicated; you can't be blame for a program's collapse if it never gets up off the floor.

3) We are attempting to play NCAA Division I basketball with a team made up of Division II and NAIA-level talent. This is because our coaching staff has no experience or contacts within the national AAU circuit, leaving us to pick the bones of Single A WV HS basketball and poor, desolate eastern bloc nations.

4) We held the door for an NBA coach that anyone in their right mind knew had no interest in coaching our program, until we were stuck with no options except - not so coincidentally - hiring said coach's unqualified brother. The sooner you accept the absurd innanity of that, the better off you'll be.

5) If this carpetbagging yahoo tosses one more ounce of shade toward Bob Huggins, I'm going to the Civic Center in Mountie gear, plopping down in the sea of empties behind Marshall's bench and letting Dandy Dan listen to it for 40:00.







.

I was right there with you until #5.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

1) It's not "Dan's System," it's Mike's System. Dan never coached above the high school level. He was a handler on a few NBA staffs who got his job solely through nepotism. He is in no way qualified to coach a college basketball team above the NAIA level.

2) He will get all the "time" in the world - no one cares about Marshall basketball, and more and more, I think that's the plan. We barely have the resources to compete in football in a conference made up almost entirely of FCS-level teams. All that upward mobility we had circa 2008-2012 made one of the easiest AD jobs in the country too complicated; you can't be blame for a program's collapse if it never gets up off the floor.

3) We are attempting to play NCAA Division I basketball with a team made up of Division II and NAIA-level talent. This is because our coaching staff has no experience or contacts within the national AAU circuit, leaving us to pick the bones of Single A WV HS basketball and poor, desolate eastern bloc nations.

4) We held the door for an NBA coach that anyone in their right mind knew had no interest in coaching our program, until we were stuck with no options except - not so coincidentally - hiring said coach's unqualified brother. The sooner you accept the absurd innanity of that, the better off you'll be.

5) If this carpetbagging yahoo tosses one more ounce of shade toward Bob Huggins, I'm going to the Civic Center in Mountie gear, plopping down in the sea of empties behind Marshall's bench and letting Dandy Dan listen to it for 40:00.







.

I was right there with you until #5.

 

[herdit44]

I was right there with you until #5.

you'll have to forgive him. he's one of those fans of both institutions...

 

[19MU88]

Oh I know those types. So he'll be doing what he was going to to no matter what DD says

 

[CockyHerd]

you'll have to forgive him. he's one of those fans of both institutions...

That explains a lot......What was the football reference in #2??? "We can't compete"???

 

[pintcan]

Part of the reason I feel the team is not quite what I expected is Edmonds and Loop n what I hoped for so far. Justin maybe suffering from the injury but Loop was destined to be a six or seven guy with the emergence of Burks. So if you add Elmore that leaves us clos to what I expected except for the bench. Thompson a minus so far also. Still think we will suprise

 

[bbneutralfan]

Why the heck isn't DD playing Jacob Kilgore (Spring Valley)? First team WV AAA All State. I realize he was an "invited" walking (on academic scholarship) but he is probably the best shooter on the team IMO. DD keeps him on the bench. Played few minutes in two games but shot 4-4 FGs. So what's up?

 

[bbneutralfan]

Sorry. "Invited walk on."

 

[Herdmeister]

Why the heck isn't DD playing Jacob Kilgore (Spring Valley)? First team WV AAA All State. I realize he was an "invited" walking (on academic scholarship) but he is probably the best shooter on the team IMO. DD keeps him on the bench. Played few minutes in two games but shot 4-4 FGs. So what's up?

He is hoping to redshirt Jacob.

 

[herdalicious]

That explains a lot......What was the football reference in #2??? "We can't compete"???

Actually, the quote was: "We barely have the resources to compete in football in a conference made up almost entirely of FCS-level teams." I copied it directly off of a file card from my "Painful Realities" Rolodex.

The implication being that the football program gobbles up the majority of our resources, leaving us as a one-sport school, even though our conference mates with equivalent budgets MTSU and WKU manage to beat us in both with the same money, the same rural, redneck profile, and fewer fans.

Oof - I probably need to grab a blank card and jot that one down.

 

[herdalicious]

you'll have to forgive him. he's one of those fans of both institutions...

This is what I love about you guys who ride at the front of the coaster. Anybody who is indifferent to WVU must be a fan. I don't give two shits about WVU, good or bad. I used to, but then I realized what a f-ing white whale that is, running around banging your head into walls because your favorite team can't beat a program with three times its resources.

Bob Huggins is a fat, drunk slob that's probably a secret pederast, but that doesn't change the fact that he's won about 750 more college basketball games than D'Antoni probably ever will. To insult the man is unseemly, and only invites ridicule on the team, its fans, and the institution at large.

I know first-hand that Dandy Dan likes to tell Marshall boosters and mixed crowds that he and Huggins are cool, but I also know first-hand that they are not, and I also know first-hand that ever since his little stunt in the press conference last year, Huggins has been grinding on WVU brass to get the game nixed for all time. As somebody who has attended these games for years, loss after loss after random victory, it sticks in my craw that this jackass is going to ruin something of a fun annual event in the city I live in.

 

[HuntersvilleHerd]

Amen to both of your posts, especially point #5 of the former. I hate Huggins more than anyone in WV, but DD calling him out as scared when we can't even win a game is simply embarrassing and classless. Everyone knows Huggins wants out of the game anyway, so giving him a reason to cancel it is foolish. DD should keep his mouth shut and focus on trying to prove he is a D1 coach.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Herdmeister why would he want to red shirt Kilgore?

 

[oldeherd]

Amen to both of your posts, especially point #5 of the former. I hate Huggins more than anyone in WV, but DD calling him out as scared when we can't even win a game is simply embarrassing and classless. Everyone knows Huggins wants out of the game anyway, so giving him a reason to cancel it is foolish. DD should keep his mouth shut and focus on trying to prove he is a D1 coach.

Aside from Huggins being upset with DD's potshots, from a practical standpoint Huggins' teams are competing for the postseason, mostly NCAA, on a yearly basis. Naturally, he is concerned with how he schedules, and to have a team, like DD's Herd, coming in with an RPI of 322, and climbing, or dropping, whatever you want to call it, is going to be a concern from WVU's standpoint. Marshall, on the other hand, has no such concerns. If Hamrick can get someone to coach basketball "on the cheap", recruit "on the cheap", i.e., go out bring in a bunch of local talent, walk ons, etc., even if they are sub D1 caliber, then he, Hamrick, has accomplished his job, at least in his mind. Even better if he can get around 4000, diehard fools to come to the HC every game to watch this mediocre brand of basketball, all the while buying the party line promise of "one more year", give it a year or two, etc., etc.

 

[whf2]

Your all correct, everyone one of you. So I'm driving 145 miles up, and 145 miles back Friday night to see them most likely lose to Akron, and then we'll be back a couple more times and to the Capital Classic (170 plus miles each way) before Christmas. Why, well because if they're terrible with the fan support imagine what they'll be without it. There is an old adage, when in a hole...quit digging. So I'm going to help by helping the team and program quit digging by at least being in the stands.

 

[bbneutralfan]

whf2 driving that distance I hope you will not be disappointed.

 

[GreenDuke]

Your all correct, everyone one of you. So I'm driving 145 miles up, and 145 miles back Friday night to see them most likely lose to Akron, and then we'll be back a couple more times and to the Capital Classic (170 plus miles each way) before Christmas. Why, well because if they're terrible with the fan support imagine what they'll be without it. There is an old adage, when in a hole...quit digging. So I'm going to help by helping the team and program quit digging by at least being in the stands.

With respect you are digging the hole deeper by continuing to support the program. All the administration understands is $ and if the gym gets empty they will get the message. They lost my bb season tix business years ago as the product was not worth the price. When I go just buy a GA tix and sit on the bleacher.

 

[Herdmeister]

I guess I must really be crazy then, because I'm flying to Las Vegas on the 20th to see The Herd play there on the 21st and 22nd. Taking that trip instead of a bowl game this year

 

[BWineman]

I tend to agree with bbneutralfan about Kilgore. His limited minutes in the exhibition games were very productive. He has size (6'5"), speed, and the ability to shoot the ball very well. He has been, and probably always will be, a more productive player than a few guys that are seeing significant time. He just seems to have more positives than negatives. In regards to using a redshirt on him, that is crazy. We need production now. We need to play the guys that give us the best chance to win.

 

[Herdmeister]

Amen to both of your posts, especially point #5 of the former. I hate Huggins more than anyone in WV, but DD calling him out as scared when we can't even win a game is simply embarrassing and classless. Everyone knows Huggins wants out of the game anyway, so giving him a reason to cancel it is foolish. DD should keep his mouth shut and focus on trying to prove he is a D1 coach.

That is his decision to make. He was thinking of redshirting Frampton and still can but he is playing to well plus without Aleksa I doubt he will.