Lack of Transparency

[i am herdman]

Someone is just butthurt because neither Doc nor Hamrick will take his phone calls.

Doc and Hamrick are the good old boy club down in Huntington. Both are mediocre at best. Hanging on to milk the money out of MU. Just my opinion. Doc has a whopping one championship in a watered down league that the best had its best programs leave. He is losing to teams that are newbie IA programs. The football program is stuck a state of mediocrity and nothing is going to be done.

 

[Dreh_Nagi_HC_IM]

As for the heroine jab.

Which one are you referring to? Cat Woman? Wonder Woman?

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

what was the coaches name that had no experience?

It is important to know the background of the hire. Originally, Doc hired a receivers coach who is a "convicted" cheater in NCAA (he had a show-cause) to fill the position. I stated how it was a very bad hire. Many people on here defended the hire (the same guys who support every single thing Marshall does, unethically, illogically, or not). A week later, this new receivers coach resigned to take the same position at C-USA powerhouse FIU.

The new hire Doc made for receivers coach is Dallas Baker. Baker's coaching resume? He was a receivers coach for two years at NAIA Warner University. Warner plays and recruits against Cincinnati Christian University, University of God's Chosen, University of Pikeville, and Lindsey Wilson College. And I am not joking- those are the schools on their schedule over the last couple of years.

Now, people like this pdbailey character want to talk about how Baker's NFL "career" will be a draw for recruits and for coaching. First, being a good coach has little relationship with being a good player. More than that, Baker's NFL career consisted of 1 catch for 6 yards. Not too many recruits are going to be drawn to that 1 career catch over a coach who didn't play in the NFL. He was on the practice squad for one season and was on an active roster for 8 games, in which he had 1 career catch as a receiver. So, again, to summarize: two years of coaching at an NAIA school who recruits and plays against nobody, one career catch in the NFL, yet he is a great hire supposedly (after these same guys claimed the last hire was a great hire for his entire tenure of one week).

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Actually, Baker has the potential to be a good coach,

People with "potential" to be good coaches are hired at NAIA schools, D3 schools, or given GA positions at G5 schools. Coaches with "potential" to be good coaches aren't given $100,000+ coaching positions at a top G5 program. That is my entire point. The resume just isn't there to justify the hire. I know it was a last minute, save-my-ass hire after the controversial one blew up in the face after a week, but you don't hire "potential" as full-time coaches at the FBS level.

and played in the NFL.

How many recruits do you think will be swayed about a coach having one career NFL catch for six yards? Exactly.

As for the heroine jab, that was one player that got involved with organized crime, and he was only 1 of 100+ players in the program.

The poster stated that Doc was a lot more stringent this year. I asked in what way, which is a basic follow-up question. Yet, nobody has answered in the two days since then how he is more stringent. Based on player behavioral issues, "stringent" is the last thing which would accurately describe the program. If he is suddenly a lot more stringent now, as fans, we would like to know in what ways. Is he not allowing his guys to sell as much heroin now? Is he enforcing his "no tolerance" gun policy on the first infraction instead of the third now?

It's a basic question that should be easy to answer if it is really a lot more stringent now.

Oh, and please learn the difference between "heroin" and "heroine." One is an illegal narcotic. The other is something you clearly have never had in your life.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Pretty much pd, dude only wants to instigate crap. Good analysis on recruiting btw, spot on.

Did you get that chlamydia issue resolved?

Someone is just butthurt because neither Doc nor Hamrick will take his phone calls.

Most of you expected me to blast the dork after this comment. But I have something we all need; empathy.

I can't bring myself to blasting this goober. Toes has had a very tough life. I sympathize with him. As a child, he was teased incessantly due to his stature. As an adult, he was able to overcome that trauma when he realized his appearance had nothing to do with his character. Then, it all came crashing down when he started saying stupid things on the smack board. The wvu fans posted a picture of him dressed as a Marshall football player standing next to Pruett. From there, the flashbacks to childhood bullying came back, and Toes realized he could never escape his lot in life.

As a fellow Marshall fan, I tried defending him numerous times. But he kept saying dumb things which magnified the problem. At some point, he couldn't be defended . . . and he kept proudly displaying that picture of him in a size XXXL Marshall jersey-dress, which didn't help matters.

So, once Toes overcame his childhood trauma, he fell victim to it again as an adult. But it gets worse . . .

Around the same time as he was getting abused by wvu fans on the smack board, his wife left him for more of a man. It just solidified his role as a spiteful little dork with deep emotional issues as an adult.

I just can't bring myself to responding back with personal jabs like he attempted on me. I don't have the heart to do that to somebody who has gone through so much in life.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

Which one are you referring to? Cat Woman? Wonder Woman?

I see that somebody has been reading the woodshed.

 

[Dreh_Nagi_HC_IM]

I see that somebody has been reading the woodshed.

Perhaps, but the picture posted over there didn't quite fit into this thread, so I had to work it from another angle. The IQ's seem to be similar though.

 

[pdbailey]

Have you not caught on by now that Rifle just loves to argue/debate? Many on here get so p*ssed, but he's usually stating facts. BTW, he's definitely not a WVu fan, but he does realize it's okay to admit they are doing better than what most Marshall fans want to give them credit for.

Oh its Rifle, that explains the constant horseshit he spouts, and I criticize anyone that generalizes that the entire team are a bunch of criminals, when only 2-3 per year do things to get themselves in trouble with the law.

 

[pdbailey]

It is important to know the background of the hire. Originally, Doc hired a receivers coach who is a "convicted" cheater in NCAA (he had a show-cause) to fill the position. I stated how it was a very bad hire. Many people on here defended the hire (the same guys who support every single thing Marshall does, unethically, illogically, or not). A week later, this new receivers coach resigned to take the same position at C-USA powerhouse FIU.

The new hire Doc made for receivers coach is Dallas Baker. Baker's coaching resume? He was a receivers coach for two years at NAIA Warner University. Warner plays and recruits against Cincinnati Christian University, University of God's Chosen, University of Pikeville, and Lindsey Wilson College. And I am not joking- those are the schools on their schedule over the last couple of years.

Now, people like this pdbailey character want to talk about how Baker's NFL "career" will be a draw for recruits and for coaching. First, being a good coach has little relationship with being a good player. More than that, Baker's NFL career consisted of 1 catch for 6 yards. Not too many recruits are going to be drawn to that 1 career catch over a coach who didn't play in the NFL. He was on the practice squad for one season and was on an active roster for 8 games, in which he had 1 career catch as a receiver. So, again, to summarize: two years of coaching at an NAIA school who recruits and plays against nobody, one career catch in the NFL, yet he is a great hire supposedly (after these same guys claimed the last hire was a great hire for his entire tenure of one week).

No dumbass, recruits will be drawn to Baker because he was a team captain for a national championship team and was also a player that worked hard on and off the field as he was an academic redshirt when he first went to UF, but became a Dean's List student and graduated. Just because you were never considered good enough for a position on the staff at MU doesn't give you the right to trash people that are hired to MU. Doc has a good track record of developing young coaches so wait and see how Baker does before casting stones. Oh yeah, being a roster guy for an NFL team for a few years is a hell of a lot better than being someone that sat the bench or never played the game.

 

[pdbailey]

People with "potential" to be good coaches are hired at NAIA schools, D3 schools, or given GA positions at G5 schools. Coaches with "potential" to be good coaches aren't given $100,000+ coaching positions at a top G5 program. That is my entire point. The resume just isn't there to justify the hire. I know it was a last minute, save-my-ass hire after the controversial one blew up in the face after a week, but you don't hire "potential" as full-time coaches at the FBS level.

Hmm, not that Baker will be Kelly, but Brian Kelly got his start at that level. Doc knows Baker well as he recruited and coached him at UF. Baker was a high character guy while there, played above his talent level, and was a very smart player and that usually translates into a good coach.

 

[pdbailey]

People with "potential" to be good coaches are hired at NAIA schools, D3 schools, or given GA positions at G5 schools. Coaches with "potential" to be good coaches aren't given $100,000+ coaching positions at a top G5 program. That is my entire point. The resume just isn't there to justify the hire. I know it was a last minute, save-my-ass hire after the controversial one blew up in the face after a week, but you don't hire "potential" as full-time coaches at the FBS level.




How many recruits do you think will be swayed about a coach having one career NFL catch for six yards? Exactly.



The poster stated that Doc was a lot more stringent this year. I asked in what way, which is a basic follow-up question. Yet, nobody has answered in the two days since then how he is more stringent. Based on player behavioral issues, "stringent" is the last thing which would accurately describe the program. If he is suddenly a lot more stringent now, as fans, we would like to know in what ways. Is he not allowing his guys to sell as much heroin now? Is he enforcing his "no tolerance" gun policy on the first infraction instead of the third now?

It's a basic question that should be easy to answer if it is really a lot more stringent now.

Oh, and please learn the difference between "heroin" and "heroine." One is an illegal narcotic. The other is something you clearly have never had in your life.

You better watch the insults asshole as you know nothing about me. I have great parents and they are the heroin's in my life. Your just a bitter asshole that can't you want in the coaching game so you have to attack others to make yourself look better. I've had the misfortune of reading your posts on here for years, and the best thing for this site is for you to permanently leave.

 

[Ninegate]

You better watch the insults asshole as you know nothing about me. I have great parents and they are the heroin's in my lie. Your just a bitter asshole that can't you want in the coaching game so you have to attack others to make yourself look better. I've had the misfortune of read your post on here for years, and the best thing for this site is for you to permanently leave.

Started drinking a little early on the 4th. You may want to easy up before you start anual bottle rocket launching later this evening.

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

, and I criticize anyone that generalizes that the entire team are a bunch of criminals, when only 2-3 per year do things to get themselves in trouble with the law.

Oh, you are resorting to Fever's habit of fabricating things. I've never made a claim that the entire team is a bunch of criminals. Stop lyin'.

No dumbass, recruits will be drawn to Baker because he was a team captain for a national championship team

That all happened when the kids he will be recruiting were five years old at the oldest. When he brings up that line to them, they will respond with "did you guys wear leather helmets back then?"

and was also a player that worked hard on and off the field as he was an academic redshirt when he first went to UF, but became a Dean's List student and graduated.

I can't tell you how important those things are to recruits. The very first question most ask is "were you not smart enough to qualify coming out of high school?" Then, they usually immediately ask "did you ever make the Dean's List" followed by "did you graduate?" Because, as we all know, there are so many college coaches who don't have a Bachelor's degree, right?

Oh yeah, being a roster guy for an NFL team for a few years is a hell of a lot better than being someone that sat the bench or never played the game.

A receiver with one career catch for six yards is impressing a recruit no more than a guy whose biggest contribution was eating free chicken at team meals.

doesn't give you the right to trash people that are hired to MU.

.

Nobody is trashing them. I am trashing the methodology behind the hire. They don't have the experience normal to be hired in those positions. Again, Baker's coaching resume is two years at an NAIA school that plays against the teams I mentioned. No other FBS full-timer has such a thin resume. This hire was immediately after the other very questionable hire Doc made.

You better watch the insults asshole as you know nothing about me. I have great parents and they are the heroin's in my lie.
.

Your parents are heroin? Did you not catch on when others were mocking you earlier in this thread?

Heroin- you have had too much of
Heroine-you have never had any

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

Oh its Rifle, that explains the constant horseshit he spouts, and I criticize anyone that generalizes that the entire team are a bunch of criminals, when only 2-3 per year do things to get themselves in trouble with the law.

So 2-3 kids per year is acceptable? Wow! Come on PD, you can't really accept that can you? I don't think either of us want MU to be known more for Police blotter clippings than our results on the field.

 

[Herd Fever]

STFU, you are making everyone on the team out to be thug criminals, and that's straight horseshit. I'll be honest, you bring nothing to the board and only seem to be here to start trouble.

He is here to Troll, every board has them. The difference here Trolls usually disappear while Rifle posts with 2 names and gets upset when people call out his trolling

 

[C.K. Ocsevol-Evad]

Try to stay on topic, kids. Every second you think of me, force yourself to type about the topic at hand instead of your obsession.

List the number of C-USA full-timers that have less coaching experience than the two most recent hires Doc has made (Baker and the new guy). Hint- you won't find any.

That's one of the major points of this thread. Both may have potential (which is the word one of you used) to become good coaches. You don't hire potential to be FBS coaches. You hire proven coaches.

 

[Herd Fever]

Cool Story Bro

 

[Y.A.G Si Ye Nots]

You can't answer the question. Exactly. You can't answer because Doc's hires to full-time coaching positions (which the new kid basically is the 10th coach-in-waiting) are far less experienced than what the rest of the conference is doing. The same holds true for his off-field hires.

 

[Herd Fever]

Cool Story Bro

 

[i am herdman]

How anyone defends what is going on with that football program right now is beyond me. At least the poster in question is bringing up valid points that need to be made because the press around Huntington and this forum are not going to bring it up.

 

[Herd Fever]

The program has been questioned enough on this board since the Akron embarrassment. At some point it gets old.

 

[sluggo72]

You can't answer the question. Exactly. You can't answer because Doc's hires to full-time coaching positions (which the new kid basically is the 10th coach-in-waiting) are far less experienced than what the rest of the conference is doing. The same holds true for his off-field hires.

Doc's hires to FT are far less experienced than what the rest of conference is doing, are you sure about that? Because it took me about 30 seconds to find that Doc is doing about the same thing other teams are doing. This is one example, I am sure there are more...
http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/frank_okam_892953.html

Frank Okam assumed the duties of defensive line coach in March of 2016 after spending two years as a graduate assistant with the Owls.

 

[C.K. Ocsevol-Evad]

Doc's hires to FT are far less experienced than what the rest of conference is doing, are you sure about that? Because it took me about 30 seconds to find that Doc is doing about the same thing other teams are doing. This is one example, I am sure there are more...
http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/frank_okam_892953.html

Frank Okam assumed the duties of defensive line coach in March of 2016 after spending two years as a graduate assistant with the Owls.

Yes, I'm sure.

Okam was an All-American at Texas and then played for five years in the NFL (actually played and on active rosters, playing in 25 games). He then was a GA at the FBS level for a couple of years.

Compare that to either of Marshall's recent full-time hires. You'd basically have to put their resumes together to equal that.

Is Okam's resume a bit thin? Yes. Is it as thin as either Marshall hire? No.

Was he hired full-time before last season? Yes.

Here are two Rice hires for this year. Compare their resumes to Marshall's two hires this year:

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/wesley_beschorner_1036392.html


http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/scott_vestal_1036434.html

 

[sluggo72]

Yes, I'm sure.

Okam was an All-American at Texas and then played for five years in the NFL (actually played and on active rosters, playing in 25 games). He then was a GA at the FBS level for a couple of years.

Compare that to either of Marshall's recent full-time hires. You'd basically have to put their resumes together to equal that.

Is Okam's resume a bit thin? Yes. Is it as thin as either Marshall hire? No.

Was he hired full-time before last season? Yes.

Here are two Rice hires for this year. Compare their resumes to Marshall's two hires this year:

http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/wesley_beschorner_1036392.html


http://www.riceowls.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/scott_vestal_1036434.html

or you could have picked this guy...
A.J. Steward enters his third year of coaching the Rice running backs. He was promoted to running backs coach on March 7, 2014 after spending the previous two seasons as an offensive graduate assistant.

BTW both the guys you linked were coming from off the field/not full time coaches jobs.
Doc will live and die with who he hires. Look at the guys Joe Paterno used to hire. Other than Ron Vanderlin, he either hired former players or guys with real, real short resumes.

The thing I question with Doc is, why hasn't he hired some of his own GA's? Why didn't he hire/promote Clint ???? Did he not do a good job? or was he not trained? I am sure there are other GA's. as well.

 

[C.K. Ocsevol-Evad]

or you could have picked this guy...
A.J. Steward enters his third year of coaching the Rice running backs. He was promoted to running backs coach on March 7, 2014 after spending the previous two seasons as an offensive graduate assistant.

Yes, if you keep going back years and years, you can find rare instances of it happening. If you look at all hires, it is a very rare occurrence. Doing it twice within a few months? You're asking for a big learning curve for multiple guys on staff.

But, hey, just ask Bailiff. He did it twice in two years. Check out his record before making those hires compared with his record after making those hires. How did making inexperienced hires work out for his program? Then, what did he do with his two most recent hires this year? It looks like he learned.

 

[herdit44]

Hmm, not that Baker will be Kelly, but Brian Kelly got his start at that level.

well that's a horrible example, but okay.

 

[sluggo72]

Yes, if you keep going back years and years, you can find rare instances of it happening. If you look at all hires, it is a very rare occurrence. Doing it twice within a few months? You're asking for a big learning curve for multiple guys on staff.

But, hey, just ask Bailiff. He did it twice in two years. Check out his record before making those hires compared with his record after making those hires. How did making inexperienced hires work out for his program? Then, what did he do with his two most recent hires this year? It looks like he learned.

that or he ran out of GA's!!