Marshall -38.5 underdog UGA
- Thread starter Herdfan1986
- Start date
I haven't been critical of his coaching skills, he hasn't shown anyone anything.
I am being critical of his personality and if his coaching is anything like it, the play calling is going to be dull and not exciting.
I don't feel particularly motivated to buy season tickets, despite he being the one asking me. No fire, no energy.
That's really it...but for some reason, some people seem to be offended like I took a steamy dump on their living room floor.
I suggest your opinion has no depth! You don’t know the coach and judging someone on a small sample of observed behavior is neither warranted or fair! Your comment was unnecessary!
We have hired a coach with no previous head coaching experience. In the last 30 years, we have hired only two coaches with no head coaching experience at any level. Bob Pruett was a very successful high school head coach in the very competitive Northern Virginia high school area. He moved up to better schools in NOVA due his success.
The question facing us is Gibson the next Mark Snyder or Jim Donnan? Time will tell.
The question facing us is Gibson the next Mark Snyder or Jim Donnan? Time will tell.
Unless someone knows differently, don’t believe Coach G had the head of a Women’s clothing store chain pushing him for the head football coaching position at MU like the Tan Man had!!
Does anybody know the exact amount of $$$ the Herd is getting for an August afternoon of Sun n Fun down in Gawjuh??
That's the reality...listen to an idiot who has no insight into sports and get what we got with Snyder, or risk losing their donations.
I have no firsthand knowledge about how much influence this individual had in selecting Snyder. I would imagine there is an element of truth in the suggestion. I'm reasonably sure there were other reasons. Pruett was an excellent coach and I can imagine folks liking the idea of hiring another former football player, Marshall graduate to follow him. I doubt we hired him solely to keep her donation. Also doubt she is an "Idiot". She has done quite well.
I may be wrong, but I recall hearing she was basically willing to pay his salary if we hired him. I could be wrong but if not his whole salary, a good amount of it.
That carries quite a bit of bargaining power.
Now why him specifically? Not sure...Pruett left MU in a worse state than he found it in.
You can do quite well as a wealthy person, and be a complete moron as an administrator for a team...see Jerry Jones or Dan Snyder.
I would even venture to say, wealthy idiots are why college football is the way it is...just tossing money at programs with no clue of the logistics behind sports itself.
I suspect you’re referring to the timing of his “retirement.” Otherwise, not sure many on here would agree that his overall tenure (5 titles, 2 Heisman finalists & BL; the # of wins)
left us in a worse state than the Donnan era).
Yes, I was referring to his retirement. MU got slammed with violations and he claimed to have retired, only to help out at Virginia for like 2 seasons.
As a HC, legendary and put MU on the map, but I question his character for how he left MU the way he did.
There was a lot going on behind the scenes that led to Pruetts exit. Yes, he along with the entire University knew the scandal was going on. It had been going on even prior to his arrival under Donnan. The same arrangements. Frankly the same deals every major college was doing all over the country. But I digress.
At the time Pruett was demanding guarantees from the university for the program and the coaches that had been previously promised. The interim President (Farrell) declined, said no. Pruett gave the Ultimatum if he didn’t get them he would leave. He got called on it.
Pruett was no angel but he’s shown he loves the university and the teams through his continued showing up and supporting the program through the years. Unlike the last WV(u) boy comes home, who supposedly “loved” the program and has never been seen again since leaving Marshall.
FYI: The NCAA invested Donnan's time at MU as part of the investigation. Jim was found not to have committed any NCAA violations while he was coach at Marshall.
MU's leadership, I clouding Pruett, would have to have been utterly stupid, to have believed MU wasn't going to be hit harder if caught. MU simply doesn't have the influence to survive sanctions.
I'm aware things were going on behind the scenes, and the same can be said for Doc.
You're right, Doc hasn't been seen again, because he was literally run out. Dunno about you, but I wouldn't come back to a place that I just got them back to a conference championship level and they don't renew me...with the fans starting (laughably pathetic) GoFundMe's to try to buyout my contract.
You can't ignore the vitriol the fans had for him, despite not leaving and wanting to remain here...unlike the reality MU fans wanted but can't accept with HC's coming and going in 3 years with MAYBE a good record...
Doc left the place with a conference title contender, no sanctions, and frankly, not a bad thing to say about the program.
He was the last bastion of stability the program had.
Agree with a lot of what you said. I loved Doc. However saying Doc hasn't been seen again is simply untrue. He's been back 4 times that I know of. I thought the poster meant Snyder. I haven't seen him back.
I wasn't a Doc fan. He had more than one choke job at critical points in the season that soured many fans. If you mean "stability" by playing a watered down CUSA, whose only conference title was in 2014 and wanted to remain here due to the fact he wasn't offered a bigger job. Then yeah, "stable". Despite his "clean" image, he had more than one player arrested for serious offenses, players lacking discipline and accountability, finished his last year with a huge team brawl that left the locker room fractured and generally had a standard of treating non starting players like shit. It was time for him to go.
Moving on. Gibs is the coach now. Lets hope has tremendous success.
Yep. On this one Raleigh & I are lock step. I think Doern(?) at NC St has likewise overstayed his effectiveness. Time for the Pack to reload …..imo
Look good, feel good, play good!
Hit the statement. Links to the video on the different units for ‘25.
Hit the statement. Links to the video on the different units for ‘25.
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It seems you weren't...and seeing how you're using irrelevant information to try to justify your reasoning is even more of an example.
Yeah, he had players who clearly didn't get along and got arrested for serious offenses...as does every other program in America. The only difference is you seem to want to believe it shouldn't happen here...and yes, star treatment is the norm in college football.
It takes two to tango, he never wanted to leave MU. It was known he was willing to retire at MU...because much like you're hoping with Gibson, he doesn't need a reason to go, unless he's fired.
Speaking of retiring, it's time to retire the "1 conference title in 10 years" or whatever. Seeing the landscape of college football, even down to the G5, conference titles clearly don't mean a thing anymore.
If it were so, MU would not be in the SBC...WKU or FAU or someone with more titles, would be.
One thing Doc did do, is he won enough games, and kept MU relevant enough to be an attractive option for the SBC. For all the BS going on in the locker room, those teams managed to win a lot of games...in a "watered down CUSA" that had programs with more resources and better recruiting areas, unable to make .500 win seasons.
So, go ahead and retire that clearly inaccurate statement.
Gibson, with the excitement of a baked potato, I hope is a good coach and the team is successful...but we won't even know the roster until kickoff.
Not sure where you are getting your info. Marshall has 2 National Championships, WKU 1, and FAU 0. We have 14 Conference Championships, WKU 13 and FAU 3.
I liked Doc personally. He was hardly an inspiring orator about Marshall football.
A major pitfall was his unwillingness to involve himself with the Huntington community.
I’m not the type of supporter to get down into the weeds about starters. Never have been. I just believe wholeheartedly in supporting the guys/gals in Kelly Green.
On one of your other assertions - # of Conference Titles:
I dunno ‘04, 7 conference championships in less than 30 years ain’t no slouch! Probably some of the SBC West teams (Troy?) have more; & probably App. But I’d wager we’re in the top 4 over that time period compared to current SBC teams, whatever conference they were in previously.
Prove me wrong somebody…..
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Soooooooooo…….you were in camp “Keep Doc 20 years”? Of COURSE he never wanted to leave! Why would he? Great income, AD was ok keeping him regardless of on field results / off field player issues. I’d stick around too.
The problem? The Coach doesn’t get the final say. And that swan dive during Covid + an all-out brawl spilling out of the Shewey? Dude lost control over & the respect of the team in one shortened season. Adults in the room stepped up.
Since MU entered CUSA (which is the metric being used), apparently, it's awful.
As I said, MU had enough consistent appeal to remain a good candidate for selection. Other teams were getting noticed for different reasons that would have been better selections based on merely winning titles, FAU and WKU most recently.
MU has more consistency in its program, despite not having as many conferences titles.
In short, you had a few other flash in the pan programs versus a more consistent program.
The latter won.
I read this, envisioning a 60 something year old man just giggling as he types this out, upon hitting "Post reply" he takes a quick breath and looks around for validation...seeing nobody, he admires his witty response, and pounds some evaporated milk.
One thing I have said that people keep omitting, despite the brawls and the arrests and whatnot...those Doc teams managed to win and remain competitive. That end of season brawl and the team managed to make it to the conference title game?
In a vastly different comparison, Huff seemingly had no problems with players, they all behaved well...won a conference title...and then left...just jumped ship entirely...so many of them that MU couldn't field a complete team and embarrassed MU in front of everyone. None of the players have any remorse for what they put MU into either it seems.
I'd still take Doc over that mess.
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I do too, but most of the board are gonna crap on them when the season kicks off...they'll use mass amounts of creativity to find something...it's just dumb they can't use such efforts for something meaningful.
The issue with the part about the SBC and program histories, is the landscape of college football was so vastly different when MU was prominent than now.
I'd say, as of 2022, the program history no longer exists...it's all about money now...and MU was fortunate to have been competitive before then (thanks Doc), because MU sure as hell doesn't have 2025 money.
The same applies everywhere, not just with MU.
Doc was not a great coach. He never had an offer for a better job like DD. That says it all about both of them. Doc recruited players who other schools would not take due to their off the field activities. The MU administration and the BOG had enough of Doc and he let go. At least DD recruited good citizens.
I distinctly remember him interviewing for the Pitt job. It didn’t happen so he remained. That’s the only reason. He wasn’t offered an opportunity to leave.
Of course the landscape of college football has changed the last 5 years. But we are talking about 10-15 years ago. Championships did mean something...if it didn’t you wouldn’t be touting “contention” for championships under the Doc era as some type of accomplishment.
Interesting. In one thread you point out the “times are different” and we need to weigh those differences in accepting mediocre outcomes under Doc. In this one you ignore that difference and use it to up hold your Doc mythology. Ridiculous.
Players are freely able to leave their schools now as free agents. This wasn’t the case under Doc. Get used to players leaving or declaring portal eligibility before bowl season. That will be the new reality and risk for smaller schools with successful seasons and coaching turnover. Doc wouldn’t survive under the new NIL rules of college football or at least suffer the same type of player turnover if championships were produced.
By the way, that end of season “championship team” needed another team to lose the last week of the season to even qualify for the championship game because we couldn’t close the deal. We were a dumpster fire the end of that season with players mysteriously sitting out, suspended, etc.
Doc never interviewed for the Pitt job. The rumor was started by Doc's agent to get him a raise from Marshall. I have a family member who is a Pitt grad and contributes to Pitt, he said Pitt never had any interest in Doc.
Look at this way, Doc was Marshall for 11 seasons and only one interview? If Doc was considered P5 material one would have heard of a couple of colleges being interested in him. The rap on Doc was he could only recruit props and players who were problems. P5 colleges are not interested in a coach who could only recruit rejects.
Look at this way, Doc was Marshall for 11 seasons and only one interview? If Doc was considered P5 material one would have heard of a couple of colleges being interested in him. The rap on Doc was he could only recruit props and players who were problems. P5 colleges are not interested in a coach who could only recruit rejects.
If I recall correctly, he wanted his staff paid more at the expense of his own salary...that and his staff also all got hired for better positions or in the P5 for more money...and you really believe if he wanted to, Doc couldn't go somewhere else? Cutting your own salary to keep coordinators doesn't ring like someone who wants out anytime soon. He also got extended after 2014 if I am not mistaken, and 2016 happened and the fans irrationally believed he was a cancer, blah blah blah...then he turned one of the poorest, smallest G5 programs around in 1 year...compared to WKU who imploded after their last CUSA title...same with USM...same with plenty of G5 programs.
Just look at how active Huff was...dude was interviewing before his season was over with far less to his resume, and was on some lists. Personally, I think Doc's age was a factor but having been passed over by his alma mater, he took MU and said, "I will gladly retire here."
Didn't happen, but whatever.
Times are different. Back then, did conference titles mean anything? Sure, to the fans, but not the greater picture. That's my point, you're containing everything into the tiny little bubble of the program, and the reality of it is, and as conference changes have shown, titles don't matter.
Would you have taken 5-6 CUSA football titles during his tenure and NOT have been given a SBC invite?
Instead being stuck in a conference full of absolute nobody's?
Look at Boise and all their titles, they got passed up numerous times. Teams like TCU, had money and consistency, got taken. How many G5 programs have completely fallen off the map after 1 or 2 seasons of success in terms of competitiveness within their conference?
When you see someone like Nick Saban leave, Coach K, Roy Williams, and other legendary coaches all over sports, suddenly retire, it's not just Doc who couldn't handle NIL...no coach of the last era could...so he's just as incapable as they are.
Oh and as for "teams losing, they're lucky to get in" you once more confirm the fans will use another team's error to justify their doubt about MU's success...
Funny, nobody seemed to mention that about MU's recent SBC title. They needed another loss from GA Southern to lock up their spot...
Go ahead and say such comments to any of the CFP teams who "needed someone else to lose" to get their spot...and see how long you last.
You'd be laughed out of the room.
I admire your insight but come on, you're better than this.
P5 College AD: "Hello, is this Coach Doc Holliday?"
Doc: "Yes it is."
P5 College AD: "Hi coach, I'd like to say, your success on the field is amazing. We would like to have you come interview for the _____ position here."
Doc: "Oh, wow, thank you, I am honored, but I really have to respectfully decline. I am very satisfied here."
P5 College AD: "Oh, okay, well best of luck to you, coach. Thank you!"
Doc: "Thank you, sir!"
College AD: "Goodbye."
Doc: "Goodbye."
The time it took you to read that, is about how long it'd probably take for it to be known Doc isn't leaving.
I would venture to guess AD's aren't going to list the people who turned them down.
I would also say Doc's agent likely was told to tell anyone who contacted him, that he was satisfied at MU...since agents are spokespeople for their clients, it was made known he had no interest, hence why programs didn't offer, they knew he wasn't going to hear it.
Just my guess.
On my goodness, you think an AD would contact a possible coaching candidate directly? It isn't done that way in the real world. the AD would have contacted the coach's agent and he would usually do it using a third party.
As my friend dshoe use to say: "you can't make this stuff up".
As my friend dshoe use to say: "you can't make this stuff up".
Every coach has wanted their assistants paid more. That was one of the ultimatums given by Pruett to the Marshall admin I referred to the other day. Please dont try and tell me if Doc wasn't offered more money to leave he wouldn't have taken it. I never claimed Doc was a cancer. I and others claimed the program's culture and overall desire to play for championships was not moving in the right direction. It was time to move on.
From 2010 to 2018 WKU had 6 head coaches. SIX, due to their consistent success as a program. Their "fall" from prominence was inevitable with that kind of coaching turnover. Marshall wished they could have consistently had that kind of production. Next.
Yes, as I said, conference titles mean things. Would Boise prefer to have been a Non championship team and never been in the conversation of realignments? Or did their conf championships allow them to be in the conversation? Marshall was never going to be in a Power conference conversation. Due to that, championships are ultimately the mark of a program's success. In the case of Marshall, the "bubble" is what matters.
Comparing Doc to legendary coaches is irrelevant within the context of what was being discussed. First, I wasn't attempting to slam Doc for his inability to operate within the system. I was simply pointing out your inability to acknowledge that the system Doc and the current coaching world operate are completely different. Hypocritically ignoring that, the way you did was silly.
The reason no one compares MU's recent Championship campaign to Doc's is because MU finished with a 10-3 record, winning 7 straight games to end the season. Slightly different that Doc's final year at 7-3 finish with 3 straight losses. The only one laughing is me. This isn't even a debate at this point.
Good to see you laugh, but laughing alone must really suck.
Anyways...as much as I don't think Doc would take more money, is about the same level as you saying he would take it and leave if given the chance.
I can see your perspective of the need for the program to move on. I don't really argue against that.
My point is that the vitriol against him isn't justified.
The program had many problems but remaining largely consistent wasn't one of them.
Consistency was measured differently (because small MU bubble) by those who's opinions matter (SBC commissioner, AD's, etc.) not us fans. They saw MU as being competitive enough to be given an invite and a very large step up in conference affiliation. They clearly didn't see conference titles as anything of merit since MU has only 1 in its then conference, CUSA.
If that were any part of the metric, MU would be 3rd in line.
Did anyone really believe that not only MU would get out of CUSA, but the conference they ended up in, was largely considered both the premiere G5 conference and the (in terms of geography) last "true" conference?
'Today we welcome Marshall University to the Sun Belt Conference. This is another big day for our conference,” said Keith Gill, Sun Belt Conference Commissioner. “Marshall’s football tradition and passionate fans bring a strong presence to the Sun Belt. Their natural rivals are in our footprint and make our East Division even more competitive than it already was. I am grateful to Marshall President Dr. Jerome Gilbert, Chairman of the Marshall Board of Governors Patrick Farrell and Interim Athletics Director Jeff O’Malley for their leadership during this process and look forward to working closely with President-Elect Brad D. Smith.'
No mention of conference titles, just competitive nature and tradition.
Once more, people on the outside, who are paid to run things, look at other parts of the picture instead of of just one area...and since Doc was the coach at MU at the time (because this was a while being discussed with other potential candidates being considered) I believe his tenure wasn't nearly as bad of a trainwreck as people like to tell themselves.
I also think if Doc didn't care about MU, he'd have just tanked the program and moved on or simply quit.
Its one thing to say you're wanting to go in a different direction, it's another to run someone out of town because they didn't meet you tiny bubble standards.
But that's also why they're there, being paid more than most of us, and you're here.
Nope. Not when it comes to this discussion. You haven't made a point yet that is really relevant to the reason this back and forth started. In fact, you keep coming back and agreeing with me on multiple points.
The vitriol you point out didn't reach it's peak until the last season, as once again, the team descended into disappointed outcomes. And it was justified for those specific reasons I explained.
Why would an inviting conference mention titles when MU hadn't been in contention for one in 8 seasons, and hadn't consistently been in contention for conference titles since the MAC? (I'm laughing again) Of course that's not going to be a reason.
So the SBC gave credit to Marshall's "bubble". The same bubble you mysteriously continue to downplay throughout this thread. The "traditions" are the fans. Ultimately the fans build the programs and along with the teams, establish the traditions.
Considering this was a year and half post Doc, and multiple other conferences began to change and/or disintegrate during that time, there really is no way to know how conferences would end up. No one, not even the conference commissioners knew how things would shake out or where teams would be. It worked out for us because of our regional connection to the conference and our strong traditions (fans) overall. Doc was long gone and somehow attempting to connect him to the SBC alignment is some revisionist shit, that makes no real sense.
Speak for yourself. I'm here because I am fan of Marshall, and what I do or whatever I make in compensation, is also completely irrelevant to the discussion.
‘04 - is 04 the year you graduated or the year of your birth? I’m leaning toward door #2 after your diarrhea today. Just get over yourself already! The Doc discussion was dead & buried 5 years ago. A half a decade later, and given the earthquake of change that’s taken place, it’s beyond ludicrous to argue about!
I won’t go all caps this time, but please step out of the time tunnel and opine on 2025.
I won’t go all caps this time, but please step out of the time tunnel and opine on 2025.
