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More new conference talk

Yep. We have no business flying all our teams to Texas multiple times a year.
Strictly talking football, MU has only been to Texas 3 times since 2013.
2019 @ Rice
2017 @ UTSA
2016 @ North Texas

Not saying I disagree MU would benefit from moving away from Texas however.
 
Strictly talking football, MU has only been to Texas 3 times since 2013.
2019 @ Rice
2017 @ UTSA
2016 @ North Texas

Not saying I disagree MU would benefit from moving away from Texas however.
That’s true but it’s the other sports that cost us as well. Just brutal trips, economically and otherwise. Jmo
 
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Honest question: are there any teams in FCS playing ball right now where you just feel like its unfair that they're playing in FCS? (Like unfair to other teams, because they're so damned good.) Do you think this team could go 6-6 in the AAC once every 6-8 years?

There are no sleeping UCFs hanging out in FCS. Not anymore. For the last 30 years, every generation of FCS champs moves up to FBS, leaving the second rung to move up and win their championships, move up to FBS, leaving the third rung to win their championships, move up...

At this point, we're talking about the best of what's left after the best of what's left after all the best left.
 
Personally I have no interest in being associated with even more FCS schools moving to FBS. ODU and Charlotte, in football, was not the best move even if I was hopeful at the time due to all this "potential", shoulda went after App and G. Southern. If a more eastern based conference is desired, I would hope it would involve schools who are already FBS and have the same desires. Been beat to death, but a best of the rest between the belt and CUSA would be best for us, though I doubt that happens. The TV contracts would have to increase to make it lucrative to do though for a best of the rest. Considering we fly almost everywhere, I don't see how any change would really help our bottom line unless we have more drivable games and a revamped conference offered more media, advertising $$$$.
 
Honest question: are there any teams in FCS playing ball right now where you just feel like its unfair that they're playing in FCS? (Like unfair to other teams, because they're so damned good.) Do you think this team could go 6-6 in the AAC once every 6-8 years?

There are no sleeping UCFs hanging out in FCS. Not anymore. For the last 30 years, every generation of FCS champs moves up to FBS, leaving the second rung to move up and win their championships, move up to FBS, leaving the third rung to win their championships, move up...

At this point, we're talking about the best of what's left after the best of what's left after all the best left.
I posted the tweet more for the bottom half that mentioned C-USA and SunBelt schools talking about forming a new conference. I think JMU and North Dakota State would both do well in FBS.
 
Honest question: are there any teams in FCS playing ball right now where you just feel like its unfair that they're playing in FCS? (Like unfair to other teams, because they're so damned good.) Do you think this team could go 6-6 in the AAC once every 6-8 years?

There are no sleeping UCFs hanging out in FCS. Not anymore. For the last 30 years, every generation of FCS champs moves up to FBS, leaving the second rung to move up and win their championships, move up to FBS, leaving the third rung to win their championships, move up...

At this point, we're talking about the best of what's left after the best of what's left after all the best left.

This is about as far off as could possibly be. NDSU is the best FCS program of all time, and their success isn’t because Marshall, ODU, App State, etc. have moved up. NDSU is doing far more even against FBS and P5 programs than any other FCS program has ever done.

Besides NDSU, James Madison would also be a solid FBS program from day one, and they have the facilities, support, and location to be a player from day one in the MAC and C-USA.
 
Personally I have no interest in being associated with even more FCS schools moving to FBS. ODU and Charlotte, in football, was not the best move even if I was hopeful at the time due to all this "potential", shoulda went after App and G. Southern. If a more eastern based conference is desired, I would hope it would involve schools who are already FBS and have the same desires. Been beat to death, but a best of the rest between the belt and CUSA would be best for us, though I doubt that happens. The TV contracts would have to increase to make it lucrative to do though for a best of the rest. Considering we fly almost everywhere, I don't see how any change would really help our bottom line unless we have more drivable games and a revamped conference offered more media, advertising $$$$.

JMU is about the only geographically sensible school out there.
Everyone else can kick dirt.
 
I posted the tweet more for the bottom half that mentioned C-USA and SunBelt schools talking about forming a new conference. I think JMU and North Dakota State would both do well in FBS.
How much of a difference would NDSU travel make over say the CUSA schools in Texas?
 
Personally I have no interest in being associated with even more FCS schools moving to FBS. ODU and Charlotte, in football, was not the best move even if I was hopeful at the time due to all this "potential", shoulda went after App and G. Southern. If a more eastern based conference is desired, I would hope it would involve schools who are already FBS and have the same desires. Been beat to death, but a best of the rest between the belt and CUSA would be best for us, though I doubt that happens. The TV contracts would have to increase to make it lucrative to do though for a best of the rest. Considering we fly almost everywhere, I don't see how any change would really help our bottom line unless we have more drivable games and a revamped conference offered more media, advertising $$$$.
We may never know if CUSA ever offered someone like App State an invitation or not. Perhaps we did and App didn't find it necessary at the time to join, who knows.
ODU and Charlotte made active moves to join FBS and I presume became the best (or only) teams CUSA had to choose from.
 
This needs to be the basis for our next conference, all schools have good support and attendance minus WKU and MTSU

Arkansas State
ULL
Louisiana Tech
UAB
Troy
Southern Miss

Marshall
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
FAU
WKU
MTSU
 
How much of a difference would NDSU travel make over say the CUSA schools in Texas?
They’d obviously fall into a Mountain West conference im sure. The question was posed which FCS teams would do well in FBS. NDSU would be the G5 NY6 rep within a year or two the way they’ve been playing.
 
This is a conference I would like to see:
North Division
Marshall
Liberty
JMU
ODU
WKU
MTSU

South Division
Appt St
UNCC
Ga Southern
Coastal Carolina
FAU
FIU
 
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Another long thread about I-AA James Madison. Which HAS NOT APPLIED to join I-A. Yawn.
I recall going to their boards when UConn left the AAC in football. The talk was adding JMU (and somehow ODU, which shows how stupid people can be) to it. Their own fans even doubted they could join, claiming it basically to being, "a new hire on the floor to being company president" sort of thing.
 
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This needs to be the basis for our next conference, all schools have good support and attendance minus WKU and MTSU

Arkansas State
ULL
Louisiana Tech
UAB
Troy
Southern Miss

Marshall
Georgia Southern
Appalachian State
FAU
WKU
MTSU
I understand the athletic department is bleeding money bad! I have also heard some are concerned the baseball field will get built, and yes a new conference is possible. The problem the changing conferences is the exit and entry fees. The travel costs continue to be a issue. Im not sure what options we have but the athletic department is in trouble
 
I understand the athletic department is bleeding money bad! I have also heard some are concerned the baseball field will get built, and yes a new conference is possible. The problem the changing conferences is the exit and entry fees. The travel costs continue to be a issue. Im not sure what options we have but the athletic department is in trouble
Every AD is in trouble. The big schools have even bigger issues as they base their budgets on media dollars. If the media contracts go be the wayside or are cut significantly, P5 schools will be forced to make very tough choices.
OSU has laid off 25 people in their AD and faces something like a 71 Million dollar deficit in their budget.
Marshall is actually in better shape since we don’t rely on such dollars.
 
Every AD is in trouble. The big schools have even bigger issues as they base their budgets on media dollars. If the media contracts go be the wayside or are cut significantly, P5 schools will be forced to make very tough choices.
OSU has laid off 25 people in their AD and faces something like a 71 Million dollar deficit in their budget.
Marshall is actually in better shape since we don’t rely on such dollars.

MU has had plenty of practice operating with such limited finances, thanks to the state senate only supporting wvu.
 
MU has had plenty of practice operating with such limited finances, thanks to the state senate only supporting wvu.
Yep. Mike's done a good job keeping us from hemorrhaging. The big schools will suffer the most when/if the media contracts are cut. WVU is not self sufficient, nor have they ever been. B12 money get's cut, they are in deep doo doo. Disney is not looking good, laying off 28K workers and ESPN has trimmed it's workforce as well - that may play a role on media money going forward. jmo
 
Besides NDSU, James Madison would also be a solid FBS program from day one, and they have the facilities, support, and location to be a player from day one in the MAC and C-USA.
Honest question: do you think NDSU would be one of the better teams in the AAC? James Madison?
 
Yep. Mike's done a good job keeping us from hemorrhaging. The big schools will suffer the most when/if the media contracts are cut. WVU is not self sufficient, nor have they ever been. B12 money get's cut, they are in deep doo doo. Disney is not looking good, laying off 28K workers and ESPN has trimmed it's workforce as well - that may play a role on media money going forward. jmo
there was a story that came about a month ago that said TV contracts will increase next cycle. The overall message in the story was "hold on help is on the way with new contracts".

Its my understanding that Mike is being forced to dip into savings thus putting the baseball project on hold
 
there was a story that came about a month ago that said TV contracts will increase next cycle. The overall message in the story was "hold on help is on the way with new contracts".

Its my understanding that Mike is being forced to dip into savings thus putting the baseball project on hold
I wouldn't hold my breath on monies increasing. They may, but I wouldn't bet on it based on the current situation.

No doubt Mike is dipping into savings, wouldn't shock me. I doubt the field is built for another 3-4 years, until we get all the funds in pocket from private donations. jmho
 
Honest question: do you think NDSU would be one of the better teams in the AAC? James Madison?

In the AAC?... I think NDSU is one tier below Cincy/UCF, but they would be competitive... In Rifle's example, I do agree that NDSU would immediately be the class of the MAC and a CUSA title contender in the west. As for James Madison, I don't think they'd have the immediate success of NDSU, but they would be better than ODU/UTSA/UTEP/etc. or the bottom half of the MAC.
 
I wouldn't hold my breath on monies increasing. They may, but I wouldn't bet on it based on the current situation.

No doubt Mike is dipping into savings, wouldn't shock me. I doubt the field is built for another 3-4 years, until we get all the funds in pocket from private donations. jmho
I thought that the baseball/Gullickson project is to be 100% private donations like the IPF was
 
I thought that the baseball/Gullickson project is to be 100% private donations like the IPF was
It is. No state or school money will be used. That's why I guess it won't be built for a while until all monies are in pocket. I don't doubt he may dip into any savings to keep our current budget afloat - as another poster insinuated.
 
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I thought that the baseball/Gullickson project is to be 100% private donations like the IPF was
The IPF was built in part using matching funds from the Bucks for Brains Program, where the state matched donations to improvement or construction of academic facilities. We used the sports medicine program as a justification, essentially claiming the IPF was being built as a classroom for those students, despite being pretty much 90% for football (and 10% for Title IX-friendly track and field sports). I believe the total amount we got from the state was $5 million, which was a match for Chris Cline's donation.
 
Honest question: do you think NDSU would be one of the better teams in the AAC? James Madison?

One of the better teams? Absolutely. I don't think you'll find a college football "expert" who will debate that they wouldn't be one of the top four teams in the conference from day one. They'd have a chance to be the best team, and that is right now, with a lot fewer scholarships. Once they are admitted into the AAC (hypothetically), they'd have 22 more scholarships which is a huge advantage.

I believe they've won eight of the last nine FCS championships. Their record during that time is 128-8. That's complete domination over many teams that would also be competitive in FBS. But what about FBS teams directly? This decade, NDSU is 6-0 against FBS teams. Just as impressive? They aren't just beating the same one or two bad FBS programs over and over. They have wins over Iowa, Iowa State, Minnesota, Colorado State, Kansas, and Kansas State. Every single one of those games is on the road for NDSU, yet they still are undefeated this decade against FBS teams.

Another poster said they'd be a "contender in C-USA West." That's laughable. They'd stomp through the entire conference just about every year and not just be a "contender" in one division . . . and that's with them having 22 fewer scholarships.

James Madison would be a solid team in C-USA, the MAC, and the Sun Belt. They wouldn't dominate like NDSU would, but they'd hold their own. Long term, they'd be competitive due to their enrollment, their facilities, their attendance, and their recruiting region. They are a far better program than ODU and FAU were when they jumped up.
 
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Put something in here so you can show you're replying to my post
Totally agree with you about NDSU being a very good team, but they actually epitomize my belief that today's FCS royalty have moved into a vacuum left by the bigger, more established I-AA programs moving to FBS at the turn of the century. NDSU was Division II until 2003, when they joined FCS following the exit of the "old guard" to FBS. Their run began eight years later, and has continued since.

Here's the $50,000 Philosophical Question (for all G5 schools, really): which would be better for NDSU - moving up or staying put?

Moving up, they'd get the aforementioned additional scholarships, but they'd also get a lot more parity, and that .999 winning percentage would almost certainly take a hit. Even more critical, they would go from playing for an annual championship to playing for a mid-December bowl game against a MAC team on a Tuesday afternoon, or the narrow opportunity to play a Top 10 P5 team in a game that really has no consequence maybe once a decade.

Don't get me wrong, there's no way to disregard NDSU's impressive run, but at one point Marshall was the "winningest team of the 1990's" and we sold souvernier pens that said so. 25 years later, our best brag is that we sometimes finish second in C-USA East, and we appear in the Boca Raton Bowl on an almost annual basis.

NDSU should stay put.
 
Totally agree with you about NDSU being a very good team, but they actually epitomize my belief that today's FCS royalty have moved into a vacuum left by the bigger, more established I-AA programs moving to FBS at the turn of the century. NDSU was Division II until 2003, when they joined FCS following the exit of the "old guard" to FBS. Their run began eight years later, and has continued since.

I don't think NDSU's success is due to Texas State, Marshall, App State, ODU, FAU, Charlotte, Coastal, etc. moving up. Sure, a few of those schools would be competition based on them having previously had good attendance/facilities for FCS, but NDSU is dominating even with a bunch of teams with just as good attendance/facilities as the Texas State/Marshall/Coastal, Charlotte, etc. had.

Would having more of those upper FCS teams increase the chance of getting knocked off in the playoffs? Sure. But NDSU isn't squeaking by most teams on its way to domination (and that includes many of their wins over FBS teams). They are dominating them. Having to face one more challenging team in the playoffs wouldn't be much of a speed bump to them.

Moving up, they'd get the aforementioned additional scholarships, but they'd also get a lot more parity, and that .999 winning percentage would almost certainly take a hit. Even more critical, they would go from playing for an annual championship to playing for a mid-December bowl game against a MAC team on a Tuesday afternoon, or the narrow opportunity to play a Top 10 P5 team in a game that really has no consequence maybe once a decade.

Fair point. NDSU is beating a lot of FBS teams on recruits now due to the recruits knowing they can do just that - play for a national championship in front of more fans each home game than playing in a meaningless bowl game with less attendance most home games. Now, with another NDSU player about to be a first rounder, the recruits know they have just as much of an NFL opportunity as they would at FAU or WMU.

If NDSU moved to the AAC and went 8-4 or to C-USA and went 10-2, would they be just as appealing to recruits? Probably for some, yes, and probably for others, nope.


souvernier

Not the way I recommend.

but at one point Marshall was the "winningest team of the 1990's"

What NDSU is doing compared to what Marshall did is entirely different. Marshall went 2-3 over six years in national championship games. NDSU has gone 8-0 over nine years in national championship games. Based on being so much more accomplished than Marshall, I don't see their slide to the depths of mediocrity nearly as likely or as soon.
 
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I don't think NDSU's success is due to Texas State, Marshall, App State, ODU, FAU, Charlotte, Coastal, etc. moving up.

To rebut, I'd like to supply two lists for your consideration. One is of the extensive list of programs that Marshall used to compete against in I-AA that moved up to FBS before or shortly after the time NDSU began its reign of terror:

Appy State
Arkansas State
Boise State
Liberty
UL Monroe
Louisiana Tech
UMass
Middle Tennessee State
Nevada
North Texas
Texas State
Troy
UAB
UConn
Western Kentucky

The second, is the list of programs that didn't play D-I prior to Marshall moving up to I-A, joined FCS for a quick cup of coffee, and then moved up to FBS themselves, completely bypassing the niche of college football that the NDSU competes on, and now dominates:

Buffalo
UCF
UNC-Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
FIU
FAU
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion
USF
UTSA

To me, it's hard to look at those lists and not think NDSU hasn't benefitted significantly from existing in the narrow competitive purgatory that has become FCS.
 
To rebut, I'd like to supply two lists for your consideration. One is of the extensive list of programs that Marshall used to compete against in I-AA that moved up to FBS before or shortly after the time NDSU began its reign of terror:

Appy State
Arkansas State
Boise State
Liberty
UL Monroe
Louisiana Tech
UMass
Middle Tennessee State
Nevada
North Texas
Texas State
Troy
UAB
UConn
Western Kentucky

The second, is the list of programs that didn't play D-I prior to Marshall moving up to I-A, joined FCS for a quick cup of coffee, and then moved up to FBS themselves, completely bypassing the niche of college football that the NDSU competes on, and now dominates:

Buffalo
UCF
UNC-Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
FIU
FAU
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion
USF
UTSA

To me, it's hard to look at those lists and not think NDSU hasn't benefitted significantly from existing in the narrow competitive purgatory that has become FCS.
I would say they certainly have. No question. Be cool to see a game against our 96 team and the best NDSU team.
 
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To rebut, I'd like to supply two lists for your consideration. One is of the extensive list of programs that Marshall used to compete against in I-AA that moved up to FBS before or shortly after the time NDSU began its reign of terror:

Appy State
Arkansas State
Boise State
Liberty
UL Monroe
Louisiana Tech
UMass
Middle Tennessee State
Nevada
North Texas
Texas State
Troy
UAB
UConn
Western Kentucky

Let's look at these schools and how they fared during their last FCS years to see just how much competition Marshall (and thus NDSU would have) faced from them:

Arkansas State: They moved to FBS in 1991. Their last years in FCS weren't good: 8-4-1, 5-6, 5-6, 3-7-1. They wouldn't have been a challenge for NDSU.

Liberty: Same as above. Did you see how they did in FCS? Their last years were 6-5, 6-5, 6-5, 9-5, 8-4, 6-5. Again, those teams aren't a challenge for NDSU.

UL-Monroe: Even worse than above. Their last years in FCS were 1-10, 5-6, 5-6, 5-7, 5-6, 2-9, 3-8.

LaTech: They've been FBS for approaching 40 years. They were FBS nearly 20 years prior to NDSU moving to FCS. Regardless, they made the playoffs twice in their last eight years in FCS. Those programs would be steamrolled by NDSU.

I'm sure I could go through much of the list and show that most of these schools were average with a couple of great seasons mixed in. Were they average because there was such a huge amount of competition in FCS those days? That's doubtful. The void left from those schools that jumped from FCS to FBS have been filled by other schools with the same aspirations, impressive facilities for FCS, etc. For every Boise that has moved up there has been a Central Arkansas, an Abilene Christian, an Idaho that have either jumped from DII to FCS or FBS to FCS and spent a ton for great facilities. Central Arkansas is as solid as a program as many of those you listed, and what does NDSU do to those schools? Abilene Christian's facilities are more impressive for an FCS than most of those schools you listed compared to their FCS peers at the time, and what does NDSU do to Abilene Christian type schools?

Look at the top 25 final FCS rankings during those years. Just a random look:

In 1984, there were only three schools that finished in the top 25 that are no longer playing FCS.
In 1987, there were six schools that finished in the top 25 that are no longer playing FCS.
In 1990, there were six.
In 1993, there were six.
In 1996, there were three
In 1999, there were four (not counting Hofstra which dropped football)
In 2002, two years before NDSU jumped to FCS, there were three.

So the claim that a big portion of the top programs left FCS just isn't true. For all of the good programs that left (Marshall, App State, Boise), there are more average programs that left. And for every Marshall/App State/Boise that left, there are equally as many programs with the same potential of facilities/attendance and success that have either jumped down from FBS or moved up from another level to FCS including SDSU, Kennesaw State, Central Arkansas, etc. Those schools have all filled the void of the top programs that left, and they're just as competitive as those programs that left based on how they compete against FBS teams.
 
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To rebut, I'd like to supply two lists for your consideration. One is of the extensive list of programs that Marshall used to compete against in I-AA that moved up to FBS before or shortly after the time NDSU began its reign of terror:

Appy State
Arkansas State
Boise State
Liberty
UL Monroe
Louisiana Tech
UMass
Middle Tennessee State
Nevada
North Texas
Texas State
Troy
UAB
UConn
Western Kentucky

The second, is the list of programs that didn't play D-I prior to Marshall moving up to I-A, joined FCS for a quick cup of coffee, and then moved up to FBS themselves, completely bypassing the niche of college football that the NDSU competes on, and now dominates:

Buffalo
UCF
UNC-Charlotte
Coastal Carolina
FIU
FAU
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Old Dominion
USF
UTSA

To me, it's hard to look at those lists and not think NDSU hasn't benefitted significantly from existing in the narrow competitive purgatory that has become FCS.
Correct. Although I do see one mistake, didn't we play Georgia Southern while in the Southern Conference? Other than that looks about right
 
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I don't think NDSU's success is due to Texas State, Marshall, App State, ODU, FAU, Charlotte, Coastal, etc. moving up. Sure, a few of those schools would be competition based on them having previously had good attendance/facilities for FCS, but NDSU is dominating even with a bunch of teams with just as good attendance/facilities as the Texas State/Marshall/Coastal, Charlotte, etc. had.

Would having more of those upper FCS teams increase the chance of getting knocked off in the playoffs? Sure. But NDSU isn't squeaking by most teams on its way to domination (and that includes many of their wins over FBS teams). They are dominating them. Having to face one more challenging team in the playoffs wouldn't be much of a speed bump to them.



Fair point. NDSU is beating a lot of FBS teams on recruits now due to the recruits knowing they can do just that - play for a national championship in front of more fans each home game than playing in a meaningless bowl game with less attendance most home games. Now, with another NDSU player about to be a first rounder, the recruits know they have just as much of an NFL opportunity as they would at FAU or WMU.

If NDSU moved to the AAC and went 8-4 or to C-USA and went 10-2, would they be just as appealing to recruits? Probably for some, yes, and probably for others, nope.




Not the way I recommend.



What NDSU is doing compared to what Marshall did is entirely different. Marshall went 2-3 over six years in national championship games. NDSU has gone 8-0 over nine years in national championship games. Based on being so much more accomplished than Marshall, I don't see their slide to the depths of mediocrity nearly as likely or as soon.
I have questions for rifle. Did your coaching skills get NDSU to the level that they currently are? How many of their players have you recruited/coached?
 
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