New conference rumors

[The Real SamC]

I've always said Marshall biggest asset is the outsized interest the community shows to Marshall athletics, given its actual status.

Marshall’s status of the ability to produce sports at this level is no secret. It comes down to three things:

- The rest of CUSA lives in the GIANT shadow of the SEC and/or the ACC and/or the SEC2B. HUGE programs which suck 99% of the attention away, leaving the local G5 happy to get an occasional mention in local media; and with no real chance at developing a fan base much beyond students and alumni (many of whom self-selected themselves to that school over the P5 school in their state because sports was not their thing). Meanwhile, all we have is WVU, a mid-major until 9 years ago, when it was pulled into a failed experiment as a field filler, and which seems to be returning to mid-major status within the next 4 years; and which has never accomplished a thing in either major sport.

- The backwater nature of the town. There are 1000 things going on in places like Virginia Beach, DFW, Houston, Miami, WPB, even Birmingham or El Paso. Even MTSU and WKU are not that far from Nashville. Meanwhile, Charleston might get a concert, usually country, every other month, Huntington less than that.

- The pros. Huntington is 145 miles from the NFL and MLB, further still from the NBA and NHL. And the region, at least in football, seems split 3 ways in its NFL fandom. Meanwhile most of CUSA is either in a pro city, or at least in a place where which team you follow is pretty clear.

Change any of those 3 things and we are barely a I-AA level school.

 

[elginherd]

Ever hear of the Blue Jackets?

 

[herdalicious]

 

[The Real SamC]

Thanks guys. Yes, Columbus is 12.5 miles closer to Huntington than Cincinnati is. Got it. I will try to live with the shame of getting that wrong.

 

[Chris McLaughlin]

 

[The Real SamC]

If that is true, this is GREAT news for Marshall.

- WVU returns (no matter how the Gag-zette and Crap-ridi spin it) to mid-major status. And a mid-major league as geographically illogical as our own. Great for MU marketing. While all our conference mates all sit in the giant shadows of the ACC, SEC, and/or the SEC2B, we have only this to compete with.

- If these three teams leave the AAC mid-major conference for the Big 12 3.0 mid-major conference, it probably sets off a re-jigger among the other mid-major conferences, Best result would be the SBC and CUSA remixed along geographic lines.

As predicted.

 

[MarshallManiac]

I'm sure some...perhaps most would disagree but if UCF, Houston, UCF and BYU join the Big 12, I would like to see this:

EAST

East Carolina
Navy
South Florida
Temple
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Florida Atlantic
Liberty
App State
Coastal Carolina


WEST

Memphis
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
UAB
Louisiana Tech
North Texas
Rice
Southern Miss
Louisiana

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I'm sure some...perhaps most would disagree but if UCF, Houston, UCF and BYU join the Big 12, I would like to see this:

EAST

East Carolina
Navy
South Florida
Temple
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Florida Atlantic
Liberty
App State
Coastal Carolina


WEST

Memphis
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
UAB
Louisiana Tech
North Texas
Rice
Southern Miss
Louisiana

According to your post, ucf exists twice. I believe you mean Cincy.

They'd lose 3 and have 8 teams left. They'd really need to add 4.
MU and App State East.
UAB and Louisiana West.
That's it. Not sure why you'd need to top out at 20 when even the SEC isn't at 20.

 

[MarshallManiac]

According to your post, ucf exists twice. I believe you mean Cincy.

They'd lose 3 and have 8 teams left. They'd really need to add 4.
MU and App State East.
UAB and Louisiana West.
That's it. Not sure why you'd need to top out at 20 when even the SEC isn't at 20.

Yes, typo...thank you. I meant UC.

And you top out at 20 because the goal isn't to just fill gaps. The goal is to proactively put together a regionally based conference that locks down the best conference in the Group of 5 which will be its own division in probably 10 years or less.

 

[Herd Insider]

It’s real simple. The SB and CUSA need to swap out divisions without penalty. The east division of the two conferences keep the SB name. West divisions use CUSA name. I have been all in on joining AAC, but after UH, UCF and Cincinnati leave, it’s really no better and equally spread out as CUSA, so why leave.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

It’s real simple. The SB and CUSA need to swap out divisions without penalty. The east division of the two conferences keep the SB name. West divisions use CUSA name. I have been all in on joining AAC, but after UH, UCF and Cincinnati leave, it’s really no better and equally spread out as CUSA, so why leave.

I’ve thought this would be the best solution all along. Both leagues continue to exist and neither suffer. Jmho

 

[The Real SamC]

How popular is college football north and east of State College, PA?

Bergen Record did some great journalism on Rutgers.

Rutgers has been cooking the books for years, to make the claim that the program was “self-sustaining” (stop me if you know a crew that does that around here).

Reality?

Rutgers owes $265M in bonds, $84M to the general university, and $48M to the Big 10.

It lost $73M last year.

Ticket sales, never great, have dropped 38% since moving from the mid-major Big East (sic) to the Big 10, where it simply cannot field competitive teams. Even with a 62% budget increase sin joining the B10, including 90% higher coaches pay.

None of this includes $23M in “state tax credits” (aka TIFs) (again stop me if you have heard this before) to build two athletic buildings that have no tax paying tenants.

Never do business with a league north or east of you.

 

[redsfan5590]

This would be on par for our athletic department. Mediocre through and through. Leave one awful conference for another.

 

[ru4_mu2]

This is from an SI article. Of course, it's just opinion, like everything on here.

Though Aresco declined to reveal potential new members, the top options are likely to start with UAB, a rising power in the G5 located in the heart of the Deep South. Football success is an important piece to any new additions, as well as fan support and school resources. Several others may fit that mold, including Air Force, Army, Colorado State, Boise State, North Texas, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina and Arkansas State.

 

[The Real SamC]

Good article. Aresco, who is flush with $24M each early buyout $$ and thus can go slowly, is still selling the same snake oil. Being in a big city = somebody in that city gives a flip about you. The only out layers on that list is CCU, although he will spin that as where North and South Carolina go on vacation and eventually to retire (which is not wrong) and Arkansas State, which makes little sense. The service academies are, of course, a totally different play,

 

[RhinoD]

This is from an SI article. Of course, it's just opinion, like everything on here.

Though Aresco declined to reveal potential new members, the top options are likely to start with UAB, a rising power in the G5 located in the heart of the Deep South. Football success is an important piece to any new additions, as well as fan support and school resources. Several others may fit that mold, including Air Force, Army, Colorado State, Boise State, North Texas, Charlotte, Coastal Carolina and Arkansas State.

Good article, and Sam is right... It appears if their sources are correct then the AAC will add teams chasing cities/TV markets and not good football programs. (IE taking Charlotte over App, or North Texas over La Tech, Arkansas State over Marshall, etc.).

It will also be interesting to see if Boise, Colorado State and Air Force want to make what would be a lateral move for them.

Right now I would say UAB is probably gone... After that it's all up in the air.

 

[greengeezer]

Right now I would say UAB is probably gone...

This is a hard one to figure out. UAB, as you remember, dropped their football program less than a decade ago because they were so terrible and very few gave a damn about the program.
Now, after returning the program and having a few good seasons, everyone acts like they are Alabama Jr. They’re not, and regardless of what league they transfer to, they will still be a joke to 90% of the football fans in their own state.

 

[The Real SamC]

This is a hard one to figure out. UAB, as you remember, dropped their football program less than a decade ago because they were so terrible and very few gave a damn about the program.
Now, after returning the program and having a few good seasons, everyone acts like they are Alabama Jr. They’re not, and regardless of what league they transfer to, they will still be a joke to 90% of the football fans in their own state.

90%.? Try 99.9%.

But it is not hard to figure out if you understand the snake oil that Arseco and the AAC have been selling since day one. Two basic lies. Being IN a big city is the same thing as mattering to people in a big city. And then yell idiocy like “Power 6” and “UCF really won the national championship” really loudly to anyone stupid enough to listen.

Birmingham is TV market (DMA) #44, with 666K TV homes or 0.6%. And one of the largest without any team in any of the four pro sports. And the TV market (Columbus is second) where college football gets the highest ranking. Just spew that UAB = Birmingham just like the idiocy that UC = Cincinnati or UH = Houston. Idiocy.

So the AAC gathers up UAB, and some mix of UNCC (DMA 21), Boise State Community (small, but growing, and 1000 miles from anything else), UNT (DFW DMA 5), Colorado State (technically in its own small TV market, but they will spin it as Denver DMA 17), etc.

The AAC is your enemy, if you follow any other G5 team. That simple.

 

[RhinoD]

90%.? Try 99.9%.

But it is not hard to figure out if you understand the snake oil that Arseco and the AAC have been selling since day one. Two basic lies. Being IN a big city is the same thing as mattering to people in a big city. And then yell idiocy like “Power 6” and “UCF really won the national championship” really loudly to anyone stupid enough to listen.

Birmingham is TV market (DMA) #44, with 666K TV homes or 0.6%. And one of the largest without any team in any of the four pro sports. And the TV market (Columbus is second) where college football gets the highest ranking. Just spew that UAB = Birmingham just like the idiocy that UC = Cincinnati or UH = Houston. Idiocy.

So the AAC gathers up UAB, and some mix of UNCC (DMA 21), Boise State Community (small, but growing, and 1000 miles from anything else), UNT (DFW DMA 5), Colorado State (technically in its own small TV market, but they will spin it as Denver DMA 17), etc.

The AAC is your enemy, if you follow any other G5 team. That simple.

What would be fantastic is if Boise and Air Force say, no thanks (they have declined to change leagues before) and the AAC adds UAB, Charlotte, Colorado State (one of the worst teams in America) and maybe Arkansas State... ECU, Memphis, SMU, etc fans would be irate and rightfully so. Especially when UAB goes back to sucking, which over time they will. Get left out of the Big12's expansion and their reward is games with Charlotte, Colorado State and Arkansas State? Yikes.

 

[RhinoD]

So the Sun Belt has announced they are looking to expand... Their logic is that they are the best non-P5 league in the country having had two teams finish last season in the top 25 and currently having a team in the top-20.

Twitter is abuzz with who they might try to wine and dine and Marshall is on the rumor list... Basically they could add Marshall and Liberty and have a better lineup than CUSA, the MAC or MWC.

Possible 2024 Fun Belt --
East
Marshall
Liberty
Coastal Carolina
App State
Ga. Southern
Ga. State

West
Troy
South Alabama
Arkansas State
Louisiana
Lousiana - Monroe
Texas State

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

So the Sun Belt has announced they are looking to expand... Their logic is that they are the best non-P5 league in the country having had two teams finish last season in the top 25 and currently having a team in the top-20.

Twitter is abuzz with who they might try to wine and dine and Marshall is on the rumor list... Basically they could add Marshall and Liberty and have a better lineup than CUSA, the MAC or MWC.

Possible 2024 Fun Belt --
East
Marshall
Liberty
Coastal Carolina
App State
Ga. Southern
Ga. State

West
Troy
South Alabama
Arkansas State
Louisiana
Lousiana - Monroe
Texas State

Thats a very solid East division.

 

[19MU88]

Thats a very solid East division.

Lmao

 

[greengeezer]

I really don’t want to yearly play any teams that have northern, southern, eastern, western, middle, or costal in their names.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I'm sure some...perhaps most would disagree but if UCF, Houston, UCF and BYU join the Big 12, I would like to see this:

EAST

East Carolina
Navy
South Florida
Temple
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Florida Atlantic
Liberty
App State
Coastal Carolina


WEST

Memphis
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
UAB
Louisiana Tech
North Texas
Rice
Southern Miss
Louisiana

I 'd like the see the entire FBS look like my created NCAA13 conferences where we're in the same conference with Notre Dame, WVU, Ohio, Miami, VT, ECU, and Ohio. However that ain't happening. It's either the AAC, SBC, or staying put in CUSA.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

It’s real simple. The SB and CUSA need to swap out divisions without penalty. The east division of the two conferences keep the SB name. West divisions use CUSA name. I have been all in on joining AAC, but after UH, UCF and Cincinnati leave, it’s really no better and equally spread out as CUSA, so why leave.

Will never happen. Probably has never crossed anyone's mind that matters. You know why? Two reasons. It's easy and it makes sense.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I really don’t want to yearly play any teams that have northern, southern, eastern, western, middle, or costal in their names.

So you pretty much can't make schedule out then because a huge portion of the G5 has a directional or geographic name.

By your criteria we could no longer play South Florida, East Carolina, SMU, Coastal Carolina, ULL, ULM, South Alabama, Ga Southern, WKU, FIU, FAU, UTSA, UTEP, UNC-C, MTSU, North Texas, Southern Miss, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, or NIU. So unless we are joining the MWC or going independent you won't be satisfied.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

It’s real simple. The SB and CUSA need to swap out divisions without penalty. The east division of the two conferences keep the SB name. West divisions use CUSA name. I have been all in on joining AAC, but after UH, UCF and Cincinnati leave, it’s really no better and equally spread out as CUSA, so why leave.

Problem will be if one is more valuable than the other...then there could be a dispute of compensation for the lesser of the two.

 

[RhinoD]

I really don’t want to yearly play any teams that have northern, southern, eastern, western, middle, or costal in their names.

You just called out half our current schedule... LOL

NC Central, East Carolina, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, North Texas

Let's not act like Coastal Carolina wouldn't be better than anyone on that above list.

 

[19MU88]

You just called out half our current schedule... LOL

NC Central, East Carolina, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, North Texas

Let's not act like Coastal Carolina wouldn't be better than anyone on that above list.

CC has one big year(covid year at that) and now they are Notre Dame.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

You just called out half our current schedule... LOL

NC Central, East Carolina, Middle Tennessee, Western Kentucky, Florida Atlantic, North Texas

Let's not act like Coastal Carolina wouldn't be better than anyone on that above list.

For now.
Is Coastal going to be a decade long powerhouse like Boise once was?

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

For now.
Is Coastal going to be a decade long powerhouse like Boise once was?

What G5 has been a decade long power? No one that I can think of. Maybe Boise. That said, Coastal has a better chance than 75% of CDOA.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

Will never happen. Probably has never crossed anyone's mind that matters. You know why? Two reasons. It's easy and it makes sense.

With millions of dollars, TV markets and revenue, complete geographic changes, recruitment impact, campus/athletic revenue impact, and a dozen other factors, it isn't easy.
There's going to be legal factors at play and it'll take months to sort it all out...if it even were to be enacted upon.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

What G5 has been a decade long power? No one that I can think of. Maybe Boise. That said, Coastal has a better chance than 75% of CDOA.

I'd also put TCU in there prior to the Big 12 invite.
Coastal has a weak schedule this season, if they don't win out, it'll be a let down.

 

[muthed]

So you pretty much can't make schedule out then because a huge portion of the G5 has a directional or geographic name.

By your criteria we could no longer play South Florida, East Carolina, SMU, Coastal Carolina, ULL, ULM, South Alabama, Ga Southern, WKU, FIU, FAU, UTSA, UTEP, UNC-C, MTSU, North Texas, Southern Miss, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Central Michigan, or NIU. So unless we are joining the MWC or going independent you won't be satisfied.

Don't forget to include WEST Virginia on that list.

 

[greengeezer]

Coastal has a weak schedule this season, if they don't win out, it'll be a let down.

Costal was picked 7 in their league last year. The season was a fluke helped along by the COVID virus. They were just another “flavor of the month” and will drift back to irrelevance in a year or two.

 

[The Real SamC]

CCU is a fine place, I know several alumni. It had one good year. But beyond that, the viability of the school as a I-A football program, is questionable. It really has no history, and seems to be a bunch of kids who think it would be fun to go to college at Myrtle Beach, which is fine, but that does not necessarily translate into lifelong alumni fandom. The town is exploding in population, but most of that are retirees who probably have lifelong loyalties. And like any state with a true major program, Clemson and USC have already sucked up 99% of the attention.

 

[MarshallManiac]

I 'd like the see the entire FBS look like my created NCAA13 conferences where we're in the same conference with Notre Dame, WVU, Ohio, Miami, VT, ECU, and Ohio. However that ain't happening. It's either the AAC, SBC, or staying put in CUSA.

You should stop posting like you know what will happen. Everything posted in the media and on these message boards is 100% speculation at this point...as was my post.

Second, I didn't mention any of the schools that you put in your video game conference except ECU. The schools I mentioned are, for the most part already in the AAC, CUSA or the Sun Belt. The Power 5 conferences minus the SEC have already come up with a "partnership" that eventually is going to probably lead to more realignments. In the last round of realignment there were talks...actual talk...not just playstation dream scenarios....of a partnership between CUSA and the MWC. EVENTUALLY the Group of 5 conferences are going to have to do something radical to have any sort of relevance. Even when they do, it won't be enough. In 10 years, I think my scenario or something similar is very likely. Schools can't afford to keep sending their athletes across the country to play. Marshall probably won't be in a conference with UTEP or UTSA unless they are in a large 14+ team conference broken into east and west divisions. I think it's very likely that over the next two years the focus will go back to having regional type conferences...in the G5 anyways. The P5 can afford to do whatever they want. They will eventually have a handful of mega conferences and break away from the NCAA. Those that are left out of those mega conferences are going to have to cut costs and start competing in conferences with their regional peers.

The schools I listed may not ever be in a conference together....but eventually you're going to see something close to it. It's the only way they will survive.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

You should stop posting like you know what will happen. Everything posted in the media and on these message boards is 100% speculation at this point...as was my post.

Second, I didn't mention any of the schools that you put in your video game conference except ECU. The schools I mentioned are, for the most part already in the AAC, CUSA or the Sun Belt. The Power 5 conferences minus the SEC have already come up with a "partnership" that eventually is going to probably lead to more realignments. In the last round of realignment there were talks...actual talk...not just playstation dream scenarios....of a partnership between CUSA and the MWC. EVENTUALLY the Group of 5 conferences are going to have to do something radical to have any sort of relevance. Even when they do, it won't be enough. In 10 years, I think my scenario or something similar is very likely. Schools can't afford to keep sending their athletes across the country to play. Marshall probably won't be in a conference with UTEP or UTSA unless they are in a large 14+ team conference broken into east and west divisions. I think it's very likely that over the next two years the focus will go back to having regional type conferences...in the G5 anyways. The P5 can afford to do whatever they want. They will eventually have a handful of mega conferences and break away from the NCAA. Those that are left out of those mega conferences are going to have to cut costs and start competing in conferences with their regional peers.

The schools I listed may not ever be in a conference together....but eventually you're going to see something close to it. It's the only way they will survive.

You missed the sarcasm of my post. You posted a fantasy conference that involves forming new leagues. That is the longest shot going. There is too much involved with starting a new conference from scratch. First off you have egos. CUSA and the MWC discussed a merger back when all this started and that fell apart. One reason was whose name was kept and another reason was NCAA Credits. Not to mention the driving force behind all of this is ESPN. They're giving advice to the AAC and the SBC. They're not going to have a huge reorder of teams.

The only shot of a complete reorder of teams is after the NCAA Meetings this January in a last ditch effort to stay relevant where they are going to discuss a complete reorganization of the all three NCAA Divisions.

 

[MarshallManiac]

You missed the sarcasm of my post. You posted a fantasy conference that involves forming new leagues. That is the longest shot going. There is too much involved with starting a new conference from scratch. First off you have egos. CUSA and the MWC discussed a merger back when all this started and that fell apart. One reason was whose name was kept and another reason was NCAA Credits. Not to mention the driving force behind all of this is ESPN. They're giving advice to the AAC and the SBC. They're not going to have a huge reorder of teams.

The only shot of a complete reorder of teams is after the NCAA Meetings this January in a last ditch effort to stay relevant where they are going to discuss a complete reorganization of the all three NCAA Divisions.

No, I got the attempt at sarcasm. It just wasn't a great one. And your replies are very short-sighted. In another 10 years, college football is going to look very different. The Power 5 and their shift away from the NCAA is going to split the FBS and the schools I listed along with the rest of the MWC, CUSA, Sun Belt, AAC, etc... are going to have to make some tough decisions. Whatever happens in 5 years will be irrelevant in 10-15.

 

[herdfan06]

How popular is college football north and east of State College, PA?

Penn State is very popular north and east of State College. 😋