What made you think it would be a good idea to challenge somebody far brighter, far more knowledgeable on this topic, and far better at this than you? It would be like me challenging Mike Tyson to a boxing match. The only chances I would have would be if my mother were (see the usage with unreal conditionals, Murox?) the lone judge or if a set of giant tits walked by for distraction . . . and, unfortunately for you, the only giant tits I know of on this board are attached to Dangerousdaneerfan, and he usually stays on the Pullman board.
Allow some clarification.
During the first 7 seasons there Stockstill went 43-44 overall while the Raiders were a member of the mighty Sun Belt Conference. Yes, in 2006 his MTSU team won the Sun Belt championship with a 6--1 league mark, 7-6 overall. Remaining records starting in 2007 until 2012, last season in the SB were: 5-7, 5-7, 10-3, 6-7, 2-10, and 8-4.
Wait a minute: I thought 'licious said we weren't including Sun Belt numbers since it wasn't an apples-to-apples comparison? He said it was only fair to compare C-USA games during the same period. You should consult with him so that you guys can get on the same page. Already you have failed the logic test. But lets show some more ways . . .
Why would you look at overall records and try to make a comparison? Teams play entirely different OOC schedules. Why did you hide from Stock's Sun Belt record? Against his peers (Sun Belt teams), he went 32-21. More important than that is the immediate improvement he brought to his program. He took over a 4 win team. In his very first year, he put up 7 wins, a big jump in his first year. Compare that to Doc. He took over a 7 win, bowl winning team. How long did it take Doc to improve upon that record? 1 Year? Nope. 2 Years? Nope. 3 Years? Nope. Finally, four years later, Doc was able to get improvement out of the team. In fact, his first three years he was worse than Snyder's last year. Only after a complete watering down (another reason why Herdalicious said your first argument was bogus) of the conference did Doc finally improve upon Snyder's last year . . . four years later. That's really, really bad. Again, Stock' took over a program that hadn't had a winning season in five years and led them to a winning season and a bowl in one year. Doc took over a team that had a winning record and bowl victory and was worse for three straight years. HUGE advantage: Stockstill
Overall, Stockstill is a whopping 81-74 as a head coach, all at MTSU, a winning per centage well below Doc Holliday's.
Nope. Herdalicious already explained why it isn't fair to look at that. You can only compare Conference USA games during the same period between the coaches.
But basic logic should tell you that regardless of 'licious weighing in. If Coach A has a winning percentage of .550 at New Mexico State, and Coach B has a winning percentage of .600 at Ohio State, who is doing the better job? Based on your argument, OSU's coach is. That's bullshit. NMSU is the hardest place in the country to win. OSU has every advantage possible compared to almost every school. Likewise, as we have gone over numerous times, a coach at Marshall has significant advantages over a coach at MTSU in terms of easiest path for success.
Since entering CUSA, MTSU has gone 38-30 overall, a winning percentage again lower than Holliday's overall percentage success rate at MU.
This just keeps getting dumber and dumber. Are you really trying to compare Stockstill's overall record versus Doc's overall record? You really should read Herdalicious' posts again (just don't let him teach math to you). Since entering C-USA, MTSU has had far, far, far, far, far (that's 5 fars) harder schedules than Marshall has. In fact, in multiple years, MTSU's schedule has been 35 spots harder than Marshall's. In other words, you're not comparing apples to oranges, but rather, your brain with mine. Some things are too drastically different to be compared.
As 'licious said, we must look at C-USA records ONLY during the time both were in the conference. In doing so, you'll see identical records. And that is my point. Ignoring all of the other things (Stockstill immediately improving the team he inherited while Doc making it worse for three years, Marshall having far more advantages, etc.), they have the exact same conference record over the last 5+ years. And Stockstill has had his team bowl eligible in every single year of Conference USA play. Doc hasn't.
Stockstill is 1-3 in Bowl games as a CUSA head coach: losing in the Armed Services Bowl in 2013, the Bahamas Bowl in 2015, and in the Hawaii Bowl in 2016, before winning the Camillia in 2017. Overall Bowl Record: 2-5. Holliday's Bowl Record 5-0. Advantage: Doc.
This is as illogical as the arguments people make after bowl season claiming one conference is better than another simply based on bowl records of the conference. Let me know if you need me to explain why. If you are too embarrassed to ask, your great-grandson probably can explain it to you.
Worst Year, win-loss wise: Stockstill, 2-10 in 2011; Holliday, 3-9 in 2016. Check the math, Y.A.G. Again, advantage: Holliday.
Again, simply an illogical argument. Your claim is that Holliday is a better coach because his worst year was one game better than Stockstill's worst year? Your great-grandson is going to think you're a moron if you ask him this one, also, so you should probably ask somebody else.
Oh, and like usual, Holliday's 2016 team faced an easier schedule than Stockstill's 2011 team. Imagine that . . . please, try using some logic.
Being bowl eligible 9 out of the last 10 years or so means that, well, it means that that fact and a dollar will get you a small coffee at McDonald's 7 days a week!
You're clueless. For many programs outside of the elites, their top goal is getting bowl eligible, winning their division, and/or winning their conference. Outside of the elites, getting to a bowl games means a solid season. If a Sun Belt/Conference USA team is getting bowl eligible 9 out of 10 seasons, it means they are competing better than average against their peers and have a solidly successful program.
One must wonder that with a 43-44 overall record after 7 season if Stockstill wasn't very fortunate still being the Blue Raiders head coach in 2013, his eighth overall and their first in CUSA!
Again, you're clueless. He took over a program that hadn't had a winning season in five years and immediately changed that. He took a program that had gone 16-18 in the Sun Belt and went 32-21 which is a huge improvement.
Again, compare that to how Doc did compared with Snyder before C-USA was drastically watered down.
This may help explain why some on here are enthralled/infatuated with him as a head football coach, given his sparkling overall record, overall bowl record, and vast number of conference championships won!!
I'm not enthralled or infatuated with him. I simply called out a moronic claim that he should have been fired by now for "not accomplishing anything." The guy has taken a bad program and made it a very solid, very consistent, above average program while working miracles in APR and running a very clean program in and out of football. I compared his record in Conference USA with Doc's during the time both have been in the conference. Even though Marshall has far more advantages to success than MTSU, their conference records are identical.
He is exactly the type of guy who should be leading a college football program. He is the type of guy who spent $10,000 of his own money to buy bowl tickets for MTSU students because their previous two bowl games were in Hawaii and the Bahamas, and he was upset that the MTSU students couldn't afford to go to those locations. He paid his own money to give them the opportunity to see them play five hours from campus. He's the type of guy who has rules and sticks by them; he definitely wouldn't keep a player on the team for a year after he admitted to selling heroin out of his apartment and possessing a gun in an FBI indictment.
