S. Miss writer telling it like it is, "C-USA should dissolve"

[beefcake0520]

So I guess with this logic the PITT game which has yet to be given a start time and IF and its a big IF an undefeated Marshall team goes up there, and ESPN finds this P5 G5 match up intriguing enough we should get a payout for it not the conference ?

A friend of mine made a great analogy the other day. He used NASCAR and that the little guy, the "independent" used to have a shot, and the ratings just kept climbing. Then all of a sudden the independent couldn't compete anymore and it was the same 10 guys everytime and ratings started to plummet. As we look at ratings in college football today as a class of sport, what do we see? More coverage of the P5 teams and ratings that are unexplainably going down and down and down.

I think CUSA hit a perfect storm of sorts and may recover , I hope we do because college football needs an underdog. Let's face it, watching Oklahoma roll the Eerbillys ever game since they joined the B12 certainly hasn't helped their attendance ,it's only helped their balance sheet.

In the long run, declining attendance will end up costing everyone.

CUSA looks too much like the sunbelt, that's our problem. So how is it supposed to recover from that? The 5 hold overs aren't enough to put the value of the conference at anything more than 50%, and really it turned out it was less than 25% of previous value We have some teams that have wonderfully beautiful stadiums, north texas, FAU and nobody comes out to watch them play. I disagree with you about FAU's fanbase growing. There is nothing positive about that school right now other than its a recruiting trip for Doc. I've not see a thing to tell me they are growing anything at this point. North Texas sure had me fooled, thought they would do something after that good first CUSA year. FIU should have never been invited, crap program, crap facilities.

Point is, our conference has changed so much, that it seems to be worth substantially less than anything it resembled before. To say the MAC is trash or not worthy is far from correct. They may not gain much attendance, but outside 4 or 5 teams in CUSA, is it any different in CUSA? Heck WKY with a amazing year averaged 17K fans? that's nuts. Money talks and right now they are worth more than CUSA. Sucks to say it but it is what it is. It wouldn't bother me to go back to the MAC but obviously it wouldn't be my first choice. Being in CUSA I would be content with if the value would go up to MAC level at least.

 

[portico]

So I guess with this logic the PITT game which has yet to be given a start time and IF and its a big IF an undefeated Marshall team goes up there, and ESPN finds this P5 G5 match up intriguing enough we should get a payout for it not the conference ?

A friend of mine made a great analogy the other day. He used NASCAR and that the little guy, the "independent" used to have a shot, and the ratings just kept climbing. Then all of a sudden the independent couldn't compete anymore and it was the same 10 guys everytime and ratings started to plummet. As we look at ratings in college football today as a class of sport, what do we see? More coverage of the P5 teams and ratings that are unexplainably going down and down and down.

I think CUSA hit a perfect storm of sorts and may recover , I hope we do because college football needs an underdog. Let's face it, watching Oklahoma roll the Eerbillys ever game since they joined the B12 certainly hasn't helped their attendance ,it's only helped their balance sheet.

In the long run, declining attendance will end up costing everyone.

Don't think I flow this logic. Marshall is part of the contract ESPN has without CUSA. I would argue that Marshall kept the contract from being even worse, but tv networks do not pay a la carte

 

[beefcake0520]

Don't think I flow this logic. Marshall is part of the contract ESPN has without CUSA. I would argue that Marshall kept the contract from being even worse, but tv networks do not pay a la carte

You would be correct. Marshall and USM kept it from being exactly like the sunbelt's, but it wasn't enough to carry a conference, no G5 school is. Look at the MWC, ESPN didn't want to pay the whole conference for Boise, so Boise was allowed a much larger share for itself from ESPN. Outside of Air Force and maybe Colorado St., nobody pays attention to the rest of that conference. Who actually knew SDST was actually pretty good last year? I sure didn't till I looked it up.

 

[A Cousin From Richmond]

As we look at ratings in college football today as a class of sport, what do we see? More coverage of the P5 teams and ratings that are unexplainably going down and down and down.

Without looking at ratings history, isn't college football more popular than ever? I'd be interested to see the numbers that would back up your claim.

 

[beefcake0520]

Yeah, don't think ratings are going down. More and more are watching. Compare it to something, only way to know if its going down. I just don't see it.

 

[beefcake0520]

Has Hamrick commented on the TV crap yet? I haven't seen anything about it from Marshall as far as comments go.

 

[andy4theherd]

national championship ratings were down "15%" and the semifinals were down "36%" from the 2015 games.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...2015-2016-college-football-playoff-tv-ratings

 

[beefcake0520]

national championship ratings were down "15%" and the semifinals were down "36%" from the 2015 games.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...2015-2016-college-football-playoff-tv-ratings

Guess they are going down, thanks Andy. Wonder how much it has to do with cord cutting vs. people being disgusted over the "new" playoff system. Probably a little of both I would think.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

In my opinion what should have happened from the jump is all the CUSA teams banded together back when this crap all started taking place. We all should have stuck together and watched the Big East crumble. Cincy, UCONN, USF, and Louisville would have been scrambling for a home. Eventually they would have fell back to CUSA.

I recall and interview with the AD from Cincy who admitted they had talked to CUSA brass about a possible return if that scenario were to take place.

Instead teams ran for money that was never possible. They were promised and extra 3-5 million per team and it ended up being 800k and change.

So like @The Real SamC said. What are we going to do when we pay all that money and end up in the same boat except now we are out more money and oh by the way can no longer take non qualifiers? There is no recruiting boost in the AAC.

It's not CUSA that's a lost cause. It's G5 football outside of certain teams like Boise. If you have read most of the articles that have come out over the last few months then you would have seen where TV deals are going to be based on viewership. On ratings. As on person put it they were going to look for "must see tv" now that the money is shrinking.

What G5 vs G5 matchup is going to draw the casual viewers to get to their TVs? Not very many. This is why you saw ESPN cherry pick which CUSA games they wanted.

You know what else is going to hurt the AAC? If the Big XII expands and takes one or two of the rumored teams from the AAC that ESPN deal becomes null and void. How do you think it was going to go then?

When all this realignment garbage started happening we all knew there was a scenario where the G5 became chopped liver. We all heard and read the rumors of having to form another level separate from the P5 teams that broke away. Heck there was discussions amongst the G5 brass on how to create a G5 playoff were that to happen.

The G5 is the Titanic and it's sinking. Running to the AAC or the MAC is just like running to a different compartment before it too fills up with water and we drown.

 

[oldeherd]

Has Hamrick commented on the TV crap yet? I haven't seen anything about it from Marshall as far as comments go.

It is what it is. What Hamrick says, or doesn't say, won't change the situation one bit.

BleedsGreen33 hit the nail right on the head. If G5 conferences had had any real leadership, with gravitas, when all this started, BCS breakup, etc., it might have been different. G5 schools along with all the other D1 schools, basketball only schools like those in the Big East, Atlantic 10, etc., had the MAJORITY in the NCAA. Should have challenged the "Power" 5 schools- - -told them to come up with more equitable $$$ arrangement for the non power schools, or leave the NCAA altogether. Even if the result would have ended up with a bunch of lawsuits, etc., and going into the courts, which I seriously doubt that the Power bigwigs would have relished, given the possible anti-trust implications, etc..

But the leaderless G5 "caved in", and what we have is a greater dichotomy growing monthly between the haves and have nots. G5 still had some leverage, if it had/has real leadership, and could act as a single entity/block. Every time the Power Conferences get a bump/increase on their exorbitant TV packages with Fox, ESPN, etc., the G5 should have demanded an increased standard payment amount per game with Power opponents. WVU wants a home game with a G5 opponent: Pay a standard, flat $1.2 to $1.5 million, whether the opponent is from Sunbelt, MAC, CUSA, etc. No exceptions! Schools with much large stadium venues, Bama, LSU, OSU, Tennessee, etc., in the 90,000+ range expect to pay more: $2 mil per game at least. Leadership from G5 should have encouraged FCS schools to go along, making sure that they don't play power schools for any lesser fees/guarantees.

The result: Well, if the G5-FCS bloc maintained "solidarity" position, then the Power schools would have had NO CHOICE but to pay up. If they refused, what were they gone to do? Play 3 or 4 NON CONFERENCE games EVERY YEAR against other Power schools? That along with 8 or 9 conference games means more and more "Power" schools end up with losing records EVERY YEAR!! Yeah, that sure keeps those fan bases "happy" at perennial power bottom feeders like UK, Indiana, Vandy, Oregon State, Washington State, etc.

But, instead, we have the current situation where schools like UK and WVU can pad their schedules every year with 1, 2 or more FCS opponents for mere guarantee pittances to help attain bowl eligibility. Thus they can thumb their noses at MU when Mike Hamrick comes looking for a game or series of games. Currently, they don't have to pay a strong G5 school nearly the amount that a Marshall might seek, nor do they risk a serious on the field challenge or even, gasp, a possible loss!!!

 

[The Real SamC]

The " all of us G5 s cooperate" scenario is exactly what the MWC and CUSA proposed during the last realignement. It was shot down by what became the AAC. Remember the AAC office had a scenario of the week. It was getting Boise State. It was getting San Diego State. Louisville was staying. Pitt was staying. It was going to keep its (always undeserved) status with an auto bid to a major bowl (the so-called BCS deal where it was the 5 majors plus the "Big" East). It was this. It was that.

And, it ended up just like CUSA. A random collection of teams with little in common except rejection letters from the Big 12. And, just like CUSA, when the TV deal runs out, same level of $$.

Because of simple arrogance. Which, until that changes, pits the rest of us against the AAC in discussing G5 issues.

As to TV ratings, people now EXPECT every game of every team to be on "free" (meaning TV that is included in the basic package most everybody pays for anyway) TV at a time of their convinence. People have forgotten how very rare it used to be to be on TV even once a year.

 

[andy4theherd]

correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the CUSA/MWC "merger" collapsed because of NCAA basketball payouts. there was no way to create the "super conference" without both leagues forfeiting millions in owed shares.

 

[portico]

In my opinion what should have happened from the jump is all the CUSA teams banded together back when this crap all started taking place. We all should have stuck together and watched the Big East crumble. Cincy, UCONN, USF, and Louisville would have been scrambling for a home. Eventually they would have fell back to CUSA.

I recall and interview with the AD from Cincy who admitted they had talked to CUSA brass about a possible return if that scenario were to take place.

Instead teams ran for money that was never possible. They were promised and extra 3-5 million per team and it ended up being 800k and change.

So like @The Real SamC said. What are we going to do when we pay all that money and end up in the same boat except now we are out more money and oh by the way can no longer take non qualifiers? There is no recruiting boost in the AAC.

It's not CUSA that's a lost cause. It's G5 football outside of certain teams like Boise. If you have read most of the articles that have come out over the last few months then you would have seen where TV deals are going to be based on viewership. On ratings. As on person put it they were going to look for "must see tv" now that the money is shrinking.

What G5 vs G5 matchup is going to draw the casual viewers to get to their TVs? Not very many. This is why you saw ESPN cherry pick which CUSA games they wanted.

You know what else is going to hurt the AAC? If the Big XII expands and takes one or two of the rumored teams from the AAC that ESPN deal becomes null and void. How do you think it was going to go then?

When all this realignment garbage started happening we all knew there was a scenario where the G5 became chopped liver. We all heard and read the rumors of having to form another level separate from the P5 teams that broke away. Heck there was discussions amongst the G5 brass on how to create a G5 playoff were that to happen.

The G5 is the Titanic and it's sinking. Running to the AAC or the MAC is just like running to a different compartment before it too fills up with water and we drown.

Actually,recruiting is better in the AAc than CUSA. The MaC and AAC are finding niches in the ESPN family. Apart from Marshall,Rice baseball and maybe Southern Miss,Cusa has no narrative to sell rhe veiwing public.

The Big 12 is not going to expand, Boren all but said so yesterday. Cincy,UCOnn, ECU, USF,HoustonTemple, and USF have good programs that allow ESPn to compliment their more important games on Sat. Heck, last year the AAC had a few games that were of National 8nterest including the Notre Dame/Temple game which was an AAC broadcast on primetime ABC.

This is not going to be a one size fits all paradigm going forward for the G5. Who woukd you rather be in a foxhole with,the teams I mentioned or the ones in Cusa .

Finally the 800,000 that you mentioned is actually 1.8 million more now than what teams in this league will get from now on.

 

[portico]

The " all of us G5 s cooperate" scenario is exactly what the MWC and CUSA proposed during the last realignement. It was shot down by what became the AAC. Remember the AAC office had a scenario of the week. It was getting Boise State. It was getting San Diego State. Louisville was staying. Pitt was staying. It was going to keep its (always undeserved) status with an auto bid to a major bowl (the so-called BCS deal where it was the 5 majors plus the "Big" East). It was this. It was that.

And, it ended up just like CUSA. A random collection of teams with little in common except rejection letters from the Big 12. And, just like CUSA, when the TV deal runs out, same level of $$.

Because of simple arrogance. Which, until that changes, pits the rest of us against the AAC in discussing G5 issues.

As to TV ratings, people now EXPECT every game of every team to be on "free" (meaning TV that is included in the basic package most everybody pays for anyway) TV at a time of their convinence. People have forgotten how very rare it used to be to be on TV even once a year.

If it was the same as CUSA the money would be the same as would the exposure. The strategy to take some Cusa members into the AAC and not others worked as the money and exposure are better than what Cusa has. I think however,they made a mistake in not taking Marshall in the first round of AAC expansion

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Actually,recruiting is better in the AAc than CUSA. .

Viewing it in a vacuum maybe as a top to bottom comparison. However it will not boost Marshall at all. We will not all the sudden start landing recruits we couldn't before to make up for losing the ability to take non-qualifiers.

 

[TheGreenhouseEffect]

The result: Well, if the G5-FCS bloc maintained "solidarity" position, then the Power schools would have had NO CHOICE but to pay up. If they refused, what were they gone to do? Play 3 or 4 NON CONFERENCE games EVERY YEAR against other Power schools? That along with 8 or 9 conference games means more and more "Power" schools end up with losing records EVERY YEAR!! Yeah, that sure keeps those fan bases "happy" at perennial power bottom feeders like UK, Indiana, Vandy, Oregon State, Washington State, etc.

But, instead, we have the current situation where schools like UK and WVU can pad their schedules every year with 1, 2 or more FCS opponents for mere guarantee pittances to help attain bowl eligibility. Thus they can thumb their noses at MU when Mike Hamrick comes looking for a game or series of games. Currently, they don't have to pay a strong G5 school nearly the amount that a Marshall might seek, nor do they risk a serious on the field challenge or even, gasp, a possible loss!!!

Brilliant post and right to the point. One would think the NCAA being all about fair play would step in and "even the playing field , or at least make it more equitable "...but the money tree says forget the rest and take the dough.

However it's never too late and a G5 alliance that says this is the payout per game going forth would be a wise move. Really someone, like a Hamrick needs to call a huge conference call and get organized.

 

[beefcake0520]

correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought the CUSA/MWC "merger" collapsed because of NCAA basketball payouts. there was no way to create the "super conference" without both leagues forfeiting millions in owed shares.

That was the rumor, forfeit credits and the autobid to my understanding.

 

[Herdmeister]

The G5 is the Titanic and it's sinking. Running to the AAC or the MAC is just like running to a different compartment before it too fills up with water and we drown.

There you go. Exactly! In the very near future we will love MU games for the love of Marshall. We will have no legit chance

That was the rumor, forfeit credits and the autobid to my understanding.

That is what I always heard too

 

[TheGreenhouseEffect]

If the G5 is sinking and you know it, do something as a group. College Football needs the G5 as much as it needs the P5.

If my entire life is watching Auburn v Alabama and UNC playing FSU I'm really going to watch less snd less..

 

[beefcake0520]

Brilliant post and right to the point. One would think the NCAA being all about fair play would step in and "even the playing field , or at least make it more equitable "...but the money tree says forget the rest and take the dough.

However it's never too late and a G5 alliance that says this is the payout per game going forth would be a wise move. Really someone, like a Hamrick needs to call a huge conference call and get organized.

Well you can probably forget the NCAA doing anything for us. They let it be one sided for a very long time now. No its going to take the non power 5 schools to band together and file anti trust suits, but that's the problem. You cant get all of us to agree to do it for some fear of the sky would fall or something. If you put this in the publics eye, on the front page, the P5 would once again have to give up ground like it did when allowing a G5 school into the BCS picture after Tulane challenged it (if I remember correctly). This split bs is exactly what it is, bs, as much as they hate to admit it, they need us for scheduling and it sucks for them when a few of us are strong enough to throw a loss on them. The best thing the NCAA could do is enforce its own restrictions and keep this watering down of D1A (I refuse to call it FBS) down to a dull roar. No one is going to argue that we have several programs that flat out do not belong in D1A.

 

[andy4theherd]

remember a few years ago when Orrin Hatch (Senator from Utah) started dropping the "anti-trust" hints against the NCAA? he said the entire organization needed a "congressional review"... shortly after Utah was invited to the PAC10...

this is why the G5 will never stop the juggernaut. as soon as some traction starts to take hold, those "leading" will get invited to a backroom somewhere and it will stop...

 

[andy4theherd]

also, the notion that the G5 should band together and set terms for P5 ooc games is likely not an option anyway. the P5 schools have already discussed and moved towards having P5 only ooc games. there are already inter-conference deals in place for some of these games. if "everybody" does it the likelihood of a couple more loses on each schedule will be a wash across the board. ESPN led this movement a few years ago. look at the early season cross conference matchups. they are huge and pull more hype and viewers than most bowl games. ESPN will pay more money for OSU vs FSU AND OSU can now raise ticket prices because they replaced Miami Other with FSU...

again, i don't think the G5 has a card in their hand to play at this table. we are just along for the scraps that fall in the floor. and once those scraps stop falling, we need to have a plan in place to form a separate league...

 

[The Real SamC]

Things the NCAA should (but won't) do:

- Adopt a serious AUDITED, with no gimmicks or loopholes standard for PAID live gate. If you do not draw legitimate crowds you are not in what is supposed to be the "top division". This in and of itself would flush out most of the problematic teams in all of the G5. (I would advocate the same in basketball as well).

- Prohibit games (with exceptions for holidays and whatever) other on Saturday except ONE game per team per year on a Thursday. The way you keep leagues from having to make the Hobson's choice is to take the choice away.

- Adopt a "one level down" rule. P5 can play P5 and G5. G5 can play P5, G5, and I-AA, I-AA can play G5, I-AA and II. The SEC should not be allowed to play SoCon teams in November.

- Set a mimimum fee for "money games" (games where the away team is paid rather than gets a return game).

- Tax 10% of every conferences TV deal and distribute it across every team in the division.

 

[beefcake0520]

remember a few years ago when Orrin Hatch (Senator from Utah) started dropping the "anti-trust" hints against the NCAA? he said the entire organization needed a "congressional review"... shortly after Utah was invited to the PAC10...

this is why the G5 will never stop the juggernaut. as soon as some traction starts to take hold, those "leading" will get invited to a backroom somewhere and it will stop...

Yes, but to be fair, UTAH, like TCU and Louisville was primed to move up. Stadium was up to standard, had huge basketball history etc. What are they gonna do if the same thing happens to a school who isn't primed to move up? Now that would be interesting.

 

[beefcake0520]

also, the notion that the G5 should band together and set terms for P5 ooc games is likely not an option anyway. the P5 schools have already discussed and moved towards having P5 only ooc games. there are already inter-conference deals in place for some of these games. if "everybody" does it the likelihood of a couple more loses on each schedule will be a wash across the board. ESPN led this movement a few years ago. look at the early season cross conference matchups. they are huge and pull more hype and viewers than most bowl games. ESPN will pay more money for OSU vs FSU AND OSU can now raise ticket prices because they replaced Miami Other with FSU...

again, i don't think the G5 has a card in their hand to play at this table. we are just along for the scraps that fall in the floor. and once those scraps stop falling, we need to have a plan in place to form a separate league...

You are probably correct. BUT I don't see that P5 only schedule lasting for them because some of the middling programs within their conference would never get bowl eligible in doing so. What conference was it proposing this, the B1G? Seemed I remember other P-5 not agreeing with it........cause they know how it can affect them. Does it mean we have a card to play, not really, but if they do what the B1G suggest, that can give more reasons for anti trust suits and congressional review. With a rigged playoff system under a microscope at the same time, it wouldn't look too good for P-5 conferences. Just my opinion.

 

[andy4theherd]

You are probably correct. BUT I don't see that P5 only schedule lasting for them because some of the middling programs within their conference would never get bowl eligible in doing so. What conference was it proposing this, the B1G? Seemed I remember other P-5 not agreeing with it........cause they know how it can affect them. Does it mean we have a card to play, not really, but if they do what the B1G

you have to keep in mind, the "middling programs" (WVU et al) have about as much say in all of this as the G5 teams... the "elites" will make the call and hand out $$$ to the cannon fodder teams like WVU who will say, "thank you Sir, may I have another?"

besides, there are plenty of garbage P5 teams for schools like UK and WVU to sniff out for those 6-6 seasons.

 

[beefcake0520]

you have to keep in mind, the "middling programs" (WVU et al) have about as much say in all of this as the G5 teams... the "elites" will make the call and hand out $$$ to the cannon fodder teams like WVU who will say, "thank you Sir, may I have another?"

besides, there are plenty of garbage P5 teams for schools like UK and WVU to sniff out for those 6-6 seasons.

That is very true. But even those middling programs has a better chance of knocking off someone their not supposed to than say a FAU. Which can cause major ramifications come playoff selection. I believe that would force their hand to expand the playoff and at that point the G5 would be able to secure a spot in the actual playoff (not some bcs game not involved with it) if push came to shove. There are a lot of angle to look at this for sure.

 

[andy4theherd]

and the amount of money the "middlings" would make playing a P5 only schedule would far outweigh the payout from a 6-6 bowl game that 6k of their fans would travel to anyway.

That is very true. But even those middling programs has a better chance of knocking off someone their not supposed to than say a FAU. Which can cause major ramifications come playoff selection. I believe that would force their hand to expand the playoff and at that point the G5 would be able to secure a spot in the actual playoff (not some bcs game not involved with it) if push came to shove. There are a lot of angle to look at this for sure.

bingo!

that is exactly what is lined up to happen. P5 goes to a P5 only schedule with an increase in playoff teams to offset the additional loses...

 

[beefcake0520]

I mean if you look at it, there are currently only 4 playoff spots for 5 P5 conferences. Remember when the B12 got left out a few years ago? Right now they have every reason to exclude us, but if they are forced to expand by their own doing I could see it play out like the BCS inclusion played out.