Spring Game

[The Real SamC]

Sam, you’re just waaaay off on Spears. I doubt many of us on here have met the man (I have not). And I’ll bet most have not met Brad Smith (I have).

I have heard Smith talk, but never met him, probably never will. I have met CS.

From your throne in the internet Heaven, you have looked down at MU and found that, much to your shock, it isn’t perfect! And, with your immaculate gift of hindsight, you pass judgement on Herd athletics after the fact. Well guess what? You have reserved that gift selfishly.

No, I said CS, a career #2 man, was a bad idea from Day One.

IMHO, running an athletic program has three main jobs. One is like being the owner of a pro team. Hiring and firing coaches, deciding where money is allocated, etc. Two, is fundraising and "friend raising". Three is running the small business that an athletic department is. Making sure the uniforms get cleaned, the buses fueled, the security guards hired, the Pepsi founts are full, the airline tickets bought, the scoreboard gets repaired, the astroturf is maintained, the ticket computer is running, (and, yes, that the toilets are cleaned, something no MU athletic director has ever succeeded at) etc.

CS's background is in the third phase. He is not a leader.

You would have Marshall ONLY hire AD’s with proven AD experience, who have had years of success hiring football & basketball coaches who went on to achieve gridiron & hardwood glory in post season championships!
Guess what, Einstein? We can’t afford them, and even if we could why would they lower themselves to accept an offer?

Just the same ole "we are poor little Marshall, we cannot expect good things".

There was a time when we didn't think that way. We rose from ashes to glory because of it.

But, yes, IMHO, MU, one of 135 programs in the very top level of American college athletics, is not a starter job for an AD.

If BS believes he is doing an adequate job shepherding our athletics programs to higher ground, that’s more than fine by me.

I think the general consensus around here that the athletic department is using up a lot of BS's time is just wrong. I hope it is. Running MU is not running a small business. It is running a very BIG business. I HOPE he puts faith in the AD and thinks more about the actual mission of the University, which is the most important thing the state of West Virginia has going.

 

[The Real SamC]

I’ll agree that CS had nothing to do w getting the baseball stadium done, it wasn’t Big Jim Justices money either. It was tax payers money Jim gave Marshall. IMO he gets too much credit. when was the last time Big Jim gave any of HIS Money to Marshall?
The kind of guy CS is, I m sure he’ll take all the credit he can. That’s why he fired Jeff Wagner CS could not bear sharing the spotlight

Avoiding politics, this is the whole story:

WVU played baseball at a small field with some bleachers behind its basketball arena. It was NBD.

WVU joined the "Big" 12. Baseball is a big deal in the "Big" 12. WVU's baseball field was inadequate. But, WVU was broke, Ollie (everything I touch turns to s***) Luck having spent it all, and hit up the doners for all they were willing to give (and spent a chuck of taxpayer money) to get out of the Leastleftovers.

So they had to come up with a way for taxpayers to build WVU a baseball stadium. WVU sports has had this story that it is "self-supporting" which, for some reason is very important to them (it isn't close to true, as numbers from the IRS obtained by USA Today and available online show). I don't know why, if they had just built WVU a baseball park with open taxpayer money, 6 MU fans and those crazy old men that call into talk radio and rail about taxes were all would have noticed or cared.

So they did. Some of it was gas tax money that should have gone to roads, some of it was sales tax money diverted from the general fund to pay for this specific ballpark. I'm not going to go into the details, but it is 100% taxpayer money.

Well, MH was not a man without political influence. MH was ready to blow the whistle on this. MH was told to be quiet and MU would be taken care of. This was the source of that particular "done deal" announcement.

Then Ollie moved on to his next failure. The WVU president moved up to Clemson. Kopp died. And WV party politics changed, almost overnight. And there was MH, holding the bag.

--

So then came Big Jim Justice. The first MU graduate to hold statewide office in living memory. And then came c****. The federal government tossed billions at the states, and a large chuck of it the governors could just spend on almost anything. Big Jim used some to fund the MU baseball park. (Which, BTW, was 100% legal).

No question it was "taxpayer money". MU and WVU both have taxpayer funded baseball parks.

But how many other governors would have taken that money, which he can spend on most ANYTHING, and used it for this? And not yet another playtoy for the sons and daughters of New Jersey at USPAM, building another road to nowhere, or simply grafted it away?

Thanks, Big Jim.

 

[RhinoD]

In Sam's defense, I have met CS once and listened to him talk many times, and I think his assessment is pretty close... CS seems like a phenomenal #2 guy, a logistics pro that can grease the wheels to keep the athletic department machine moving, be friendly and shake hands at events, etc.

Is he a leader that is going to make effective changes in the two sports that matter financially?... We haven't seen it yet, and the Corny hire from within smells badly of the kind of quiet nepotism from "one Marshall guy to another" we've seen before. The BOG allowed Dantoni to pick his successor and he chose Corny (that is in no way Corny's fault and I hope it works out awesome for him and our basketball program). Maybe Spears was neutered on that decision, maybe he wasn't, but either way it was small-time at best.

Spears has done some good things... The Caldwell hire was obviously a home run. He has capitalized on the popularity of mens soccer pretty well and turned it into bigger crowds and more national recognition (winning will do that). He has overseen the construction of the baseball stadium.

If we are as bad at football as what we looked on Saturday, we are going to see what CS is made of later this fall.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

The last men's and women's basketball hires seem to indicated that the Brad Smith philosophy seems to be to not lavishly spend on athletic salaries at the same time he is trying to balance the university budget. I respect this. My curiosity is what this looks like with a football hire?

I don't see that. Corny wasn't a recent decision. It's been known or suspected for the last several seasons that Corny was most likely the HCIW and then we found out that was pretty much solidified last off season when he was getting an offer from Keats.

His deal that he received now was smart. There's no telling how good Corny is as a HC and with the way Dan's exit was accelerated (up until his meeting with BS he was getting 2 more seasons) we were able to give Corny the remaining part of Dan's deal and he's basically auditioning for the job long-term. Just a perfect storm. Had Dan lasted this season and next when Corny was elevated he would have most likely received a more typical deal.

As to WBB. From most reports the WBB hires were done by Spears. I do not believe that we went for Kim because it was cheap and I don't think we went for Julie because she was cheap. It appears that Spears did what a lot of us have been clamoring for, for a while and would like to see it put into practice on the the men's side. That would be going down to the lower levels and hiring proven winners and because they came from lower levels then it wasn't going to take big money to lure them. It's a significant raise no matter what and they get to be on the D-I level.

If it was just purely looking not to spend we would have hired some assistant coach with no market.

It will be interesting to see where we go at the end of this season. I personally do not believe that Huff should receive any type of extension for anything less than bringing home a championship. I don't care if we make a bowl, win a bowl, or win 10 games. At year four that should not be the watermark. We fired the last guy for doing only that. Huff was brought in to elevate the program and we have regressed. You can't underachieve the entire time you're hear and get back where you started and expect a pat on the back. Huff has been a failure. Period.

Where do we go to get a replacement? Will we look to the FCS level for a proven winner? I also think that coaching salaries moving forward won't be the end all be all for prospective coaches. Coaches are going to be asking one question. What will they have to spend for players. That high salary (at this level 800k-2M) whether it's at the bottom, middle, or top of the spectrum isn't going to matter one bit if you don't have anything to compete on the players market. Now it's said they at do have more than what people expect for football, but I still don't know what a single one of our incoming portal players received. They didn't come here for free.

 

[sluggo72]

In Sam's defense, I have met CS once and listened to him talk many times, and I think his assessment is pretty close... CS seems like a phenomenal #2 guy, a logistics pro that can grease the wheels to keep the athletic department machine moving, be friendly and shake hands at events, etc.

Is he a leader that is going to make effective changes in the two sports that matter financially?... We haven't seen it yet, and the Corny hire from within smells badly of the kind of quiet nepotism from "one Marshall guy to another" we've seen before. The BOG allowed Dantoni to pick his successor and he chose Corny (that is in no way Corny's fault and I hope it works out awesome for him and our basketball program). Maybe Spears was neutered on that decision, maybe he wasn't, but either way it was small-time at best.

Spears has done some good things... The Caldwell hire was obviously a home run. He has capitalized on the popularity of mens soccer pretty well and turned it into bigger crowds and more national recognition (winning will do that). He has overseen the construction of the baseball stadium.

If we are as bad at football as what we looked on Saturday, we are going to see what CS is made of later this fall.

For the umphtine time CS has no say on keeping CH or not. His job is to keep the waste cans in order
Over seen the building of the baseball stadium? Please

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Maybe Spears was neutered on that decision, maybe he wasn't, but either way it was small-time at best.

I have never been told this outright, but just by connecting the dots, Spears really didn't have any influence at all with the MBB hire. There are some details that tell me he wasn't looking to Corny now or 2 years from now and that's why Corny was thinking of leaving last off season until Dan when over Spears' head to Smith. It came off like when a child plays mommy against daddy. This of course caused friction and resentment from within. Dan would still be the coach had he not been so dismissive of Brad in their end of the season meeting.

If Corny fails bad and Huff fails badly (I expect both) it will be telling how Spears will be allowed to conduct business. I could see a scenario where Spears will have enough and resigning. Where it matters, Spears has basically just been the face of the decisions others have made. WBB and a couple small sports is all he's pretty much been able to have authority over.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

For the umphtine time CS has no say on keeping CH or not. His job is to keep the waste cans in order
Over seen the building of the baseball stadium? Please

I don't know if the first statement is 100% true as there were a lot of reasons not to fire Huff in his last season.

As to the baseball stadium. While it had hit its snags, that was something that was already in motion before Spears and he just got to be the person cutting the ribbon. Same with the stadium improvements. Those scoreboards are a part of contract. The upgrade was coming regardless of the AD.

 

[sluggo72]

I don't know if the first statement is 100% true as there were a lot of reasons not to fire Huff in his last season.

As to the baseball stadium. While it had hit its snags, that was something that was already in motion before Spears and he just got to be the person cutting the ribbon. Same with the stadium improvements. Those scoreboards are a part of contract. The upgrade was coming regardless of the AD.

It’s 100% true. Been that way since at least BP

 

[BleedsGreen33]

It’s 100% true. Been that way since at least BP

And yet Mike Hamrick was the one that sought after Doc, interviewed Doc, hired Doc, and protected Doc for a decade.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

And yet Mike Hamrick was the one that sought after Doc, interviewed Doc, hired Doc, and protected Doc for a decade.

Hired Dan as well - as a fallback because the MD deal fell through, and he had no other candidates lined up.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I have heard Smith talk, but never met him, probably never will. I have met CS.

No, I said CS, a career #2 man, was a bad idea from Day One.

IMHO, running an athletic program has three main jobs. One is like being the owner of a pro team. Hiring and firing coaches, deciding where money is allocated, etc. Two, is fundraising and "friend raising". Three is running the small business that an athletic department is. Making sure the uniforms get cleaned, the buses fueled, the security guards hired, the Pepsi founts are full, the airline tickets bought, the scoreboard gets repaired, the astroturf is maintained, the ticket computer is running, (and, yes, that the toilets are cleaned, something no MU athletic director has ever succeeded at) etc.

CS's background is in the third phase. He is not a leader.


Just the same ole "we are poor little Marshall, we cannot expect good things".

There was a time when we didn't think that way. We rose from ashes to glory because of it.

But, yes, IMHO, MU, one of 135 programs in the very top level of American college athletics, is not a starter job for an AD.

I think the general consensus around here that the athletic department is using up a lot of BS's time is just wrong. I hope it is. Running MU is not running a small business. It is running a very BIG business. I HOPE he puts faith in the AD and thinks more about the actual mission of the University, which is the most important thing the state of West Virginia has going.

The poor little Marshall comment is false as well. You don’t want cheap steak, but you do want steak cheap!
Doesn’t work that way in the real world Sammy. There is a set amount of money we can afford to pay an AD, unless you are going to provide the extra 💵, which would be a certain sign that the endtimes are here….

 

[Marshall Jeff]

I knew Charles Huff wasn't the guy from the first press conference and I said so. He was absolutely hired for the wrong reason.

 

[sluggo72]

And yet Mike Hamrick was the one that sought after Doc, interviewed Doc, hired Doc, and protected Doc for a decade.

But did he fire/ not rehire Doc?

 

[Rock98Dog]

But did he fire/ not rehire Doc?

No. That decision wasn’t his, hence Huff getting his gift in a Dollar General bag.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

No. That decision wasn’t his, hence Huff getting his gift in a Dollar General bag.

Sadly, one of the most classless things I have ever seen from an athletic administrator.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

But did he fire/ not rehire Doc?

Kind of hard to do when you had already been told your time was over. Hamrick was retiring. His input wouldn't matter. You stated that it has been the way you describe since Bob Pruett. Well for that to be true then the events that transpired from 2010-2020 couldn't have happened. Of course the president and BoG have final say in these matters as they approve the salaries, but it was Hamrick who did most of the hiring and firing during his time.

Spears walked into a bad situation. The MBB coach had been a made man with the president and BoG and wasn't going anywhere and still would be here had he not been so darn stubborn.

As far as Huff goes there are several reasons why we didn't fire Huff at the end of last season. None of which were that Christian Spears is not permitted the ability to do so.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

I knew Charles Huff wasn't the guy from the first press conference and I said so. He was absolutely hired for the wrong reason.

I fell for it in the very beginning and took him at his word. However when he lied about keeping the defensive staff I started to raise an eyebrow. Then came his in game decision making, his lie about never taking his foot off the pedal, and then his constant throwing players under the bus.

I don't care if it was his first time being a HC. He's played, coached, and been around football long enough not to make the calls he did in that 17 point choke job at home to ECU. Then after the game blaming the WR for not catching that 4th down back shoulder fade when all we needed was 1 yard to pick up a first. Heck even punting would have been smarter.

 

[Tonycried2]

I fell for it in the very beginning and took him at his word. However when he lied about keeping the defensive staff I started to raise an eyebrow. Then came his in game decision making, his lie about never taking his foot off the pedal, and then his constant throwing players under the bus.

I don't care if it was his first time being a HC. He's played, coached, and been around football long enough not to make the calls he did in that 17 point choke job at home to ECU. Then after the game blaming the WR for not catching that 4th down back shoulder fade when all we needed was 1 yard to pick up a first. Heck even punting would have been smarter.

Yes, the ECU debacle was hard to take as well as his statements after the meltdown about not being able to get back on the bus once you get off! Much better off just saying " I screwed up".

 

[HerdGradinFL]

I fell for it in the very beginning and took him at his word. However when he lied about keeping the defensive staff I started to raise an eyebrow. Then came his in game decision making, his lie about never taking his foot off the pedal, and then his constant throwing players under the bus.

I don't care if it was his first time being a HC. He's played, coached, and been around football long enough not to make the calls he did in that 17 point choke job at home to ECU. Then after the game blaming the WR for not catching that 4th down back shoulder fade when all we needed was 1 yard to pick up a first. Heck even punting would have been smarter.

Just like Dan at his first press conference, I knew it was a mistake to hire him. When recruiting was brought up he said he had contacts with high school coaches because of the MB basketball tournament. He said Marshall wouldn't have to show him the door. We know how that turned out, he had no idea of how to recruit and he was finally forced out.

 

[Tonycried2]

Just like Dan at his first press conference, I knew it was a mistake to hire him. When recruiting was brought up he said he had contacts with high school coaches because of the MB basketball tournament. He said Marshall wouldn't have to show him the door. We know how that turned out, he had no idea of how to recruit and he was finally forced out.

We still haven't seen a public statement from him....

 

[RhinoD]

I have to admit I bought what Huff was selling at first too. And two years ago we had a good year that ended in a bowl win in Myrtle Beach so it seemed like things were alright... Then last year happened and we bounced from beating VT and almost beating NCSU, to looking completely uncompetitive at times (App State, Coastal, South Alabama), and the vibe was never positive after the NCSU loss. Heck, the win over Arkansas State to get bowl eligible felt like a funeral... Then of course being completely overmatched by another G5 in our bowl game left everyone sour -- followed by Huff's genius calling out of the fans for being the reason Fancher entered the portal, and the lack of NIL money being the fans fault, etc.

 

[MrHerd05]

You would think our programs go winless every year with some of these ridiculous opinions.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

The WVU field was built with Mon County TIF money. Much like Pullman Square in Huntington - a project some on here said would fail miserably. LOL!

 

[BleedsGreen33]

Just like Dan at his first press conference, I knew it was a mistake to hire him. When recruiting was brought up he said he had contacts with high school coaches because of the MB basketball tournament. He said Marshall wouldn't have to show him the door. We know how that turned out, he had no idea of how to recruit and he was finally forced out.

Yup. A tournament that Dan had a hand in creating and to my knowledge we never landed one player from that. I'm not even sure we attended it.

There's a poster on the other board that is involved with a tournament in OH and says that every single university in the region attends and we've not been there once.

Huff, the proclaimed #1 recruiter in the nation, can't even land a QB.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

You would think our programs go winless every year with some of these ridiculous opinions.

They vastly underachieve. Then again for you results don't matter. You'll build alters to whoever the coach is.

 

[W-S HerdFan]

Yup. A tournament that Dan had a hand in creating and to my knowledge we never landed on player from that. I'm not even sure we attended it.

There's a poster on the other board that is involved with a tournament in OH and says that every single university in the region attends and we've not been there once.

Huff, the proclaimed #1 recruiter in the nation, can't even land a QB.

So true! And if not for Cato/shuler, Doc wouldn’t have recruited a decent one in his entire 10 year run…..
Come to think of it, if not for that 2017-18 team and then Kinsey, DD would’ve been in the same leaky boat as Doc….

 

[MUMAN3419]

You would think our programs go winless every year with some of these ridiculous opinions.

Man we get it. You’re happy just to field a team that wears the green and white. Some fans have expectations and some do not.

 

[MrHerd05]

Man we get it. You’re happy just to field a team that wears the green and white. Some fans have expectations and some do not.

That’s fine. You guys can’t criticize my opinions and act like I don’t want to win all ya want. My point is you guys want everything and then complain about everything.

This thread makes us sound like Kent State in the late 90’s.

We have went to bowl games every year with our new coach, and won at Notre dame. All on a budget and nil budget that simply isn’t comparable.

We have been to an ncaa tournament and won a game there in the last half decade. After never even going for 30 plus years. And we are one year removed from a 24 win season and a period of time that saw us all enjoy three of our most prolific scorers in school history

Yet you want us to figure out a way to instantly win championships against schools who are paying more, some are attending more and most are donating more.

Makes no sense.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

So true! And if not for Cato/shuler, Doc wouldn’t have recruited a decent one in his entire 10 year run…..
Come to think of it, if not for that 2017-18 team and then Kinsey, DD would’ve been in the same leaky boat as Doc….

I beg to differ on Doc. While Cato was an all-timer he had some good ones that his staff either ruined or could not coach up.

Litton had the tools, but lacked maturity and after that concussion he sustained against Akron was never the same. He got guns shy.

Wells' trajectory was good until Doc and Cramsey left him flapping in the wind against Rice and he got shook.

Blake Frohnapfel could have been really good for us. I actually blame his departure for the downturn of the program. Yes Doc should have done better after, but it knocked us off schedule. Had Blake stayed in 2015 we would have most likely rolled to another conference championship and given us time to either mature or figure out Litton. We also lost another QB that while not a threat to start he was depth and we were left with bringing in Birdsong as a stop gap to Litton. He proved subpar and then blew his shoulder out in game 1 forcing Litton into action in game 3. I fully believe that Doc burning Eric's RS in 2012 led to Blake's departure after 2014. They wanted to play together and that knocked them off schedule. He also promised Blake packages after his performance at ECU when Cato went down and it never happened.

That backup that left after 2014's Spring Game was a starter on the FCS level after. So he was still decent.

Doc could bring in the talent. He recruited circles over Mr. #1 Recruiter we have now. As a matter of fact all of Huff's success here, with the exception of a couple players, has been with Doc's recruits. Doc's problem was his utilization and development of talent. A good example is Moo Moo Smith. You have a player with elite speed and yet might have been 5'6". I met Moo Moo. He was so short he made me feel like a giant and I'm 5'10" on a good day. At PSU, Devon was used in underneath speed routes. What did Doc and Legg do? Line him outside the numbers (WAY OUTSIDE) and threw 50/50 balls to him.

Doc and Cramsey weren't any better with it either. Yes Cramsey has found success at Memphis, but when he was here it was nothing but short routes and horrendous RZ playcalling.


Huff on the other hand has not brought in one single QB worth a darn. Not one. Fancher was Doc's. I don't think he would have ever played as a QB under Doc (most likely moved), but nevertheless he was Doc's. Cole is Doc's. Huff might have honored the scholarship, but Doc started his recruitment.

Colombi sucked and there were SOOOO many red flags on him he never should have been brought in.

Chase Harrison is never in the discussion.

T.J. McMahon lost his job to a busted up J.T. Daniels and had a busted up shoulder that the staff missed.

Colin Parachek is a walk-on from Morehead State.

Cade Cunningham was a nonfactor.

Braylon Braxton appears to be another Fancher.

Mitch Griffis has a good arm, but his like Fancher he had several sub 100 yard passing games and according to broadcasts his weakness is being able to read the defense.

Again. Huff is the #1 Recruiter in the country. At least was. Not one quality QB? Not one? Even if I give you that Doc lucked into Cato or Shuler was responsible for Cato, Huff hasn't been able to do that. Now either he sucks as an evaluator of QBs or maybe he never thought he'd be here this long and was just looking for quick fixes.

Either way, to this point, Huff has been very underwhelming as a recruiter.


Dan got extremely lucky with Jon Elmore choosing to leave VMI because of his grandfather's health. Had that never happened there is no championship season. And before someone calls me a hypocrite for saying Doc wasn't necessarily lucky with landing Cato. Dan didn't land Elmore in a recruiting battle out of HS. If Jon's grandfather never gets ill, he probably remains at VMI.

 

[BleedsGreen33]

You guys can’t criticize my opinions and act like I don’t want to win all ya want.

You don't and you've proven it over and over again. When coaches aren't performing you still defend them and give them undying loyalty. You still defend Snyder and Herrion when it was clear that they needed to be let go. You'd be completely find with Dan being here another 10 years.

I bet we could go 0-12 and you would still support Huff.

 

[sluggo72]

And yet Mike Hamrick was the one that sought after Doc, interviewed Doc, hired Doc, and protected Doc for a decade.

He didn’t hire Doc the BoG hired Doc. That’s from a BOG member. Heck he told me he wanted DoC over MS. But Vernon Gibson over ruled him

 

[sluggo72]

Kind of hard to do when you had already been told your time was over. Hamrick was retiring. His input wouldn't matter. You stated that it has been the way you describe since Bob Pruett. Well for that to be true then the events that transpired from 2010-2020 couldn't have happened. Of course the president and BoG have final say in these matters as they approve the salaries, but it was Hamrick who did most of the hiring and firing during his time.

Spears walked into a bad situation. The MBB coach had been a made man with the president and BoG and wasn't going anywhere and still would be here had he not been so darn stubborn.

As far as Huff goes there are several reasons why we didn't fire Huff at the end of last season. None of which were that Christian Spears is not permitted the ability to do so.

Spears didn’t walk into bad situation he made it a bad situation

 

[MUMAN3419]

That’s fine. You guys can’t criticize my opinions and act like I don’t want to win all ya want. My point is you guys want everything and then complain about everything.

This thread makes us sound like Kent State in the late 90’s.

We have went to bowl games every year with our new coach, and won at Notre dame. All on a budget and nil budget that simply isn’t comparable.

We have been to an ncaa tournament and won a game there in the last half decade. After never even going for 30 plus years. And we are one year removed from a 24 win season and a period of time that saw us all enjoy three of our most prolific scorers in school history

Yet you want us to figure out a way to instantly win championships against schools who are paying more, some are attending more and most are donating more.

Makes no sense.

So these schools that we play with in conference are just blowing our budget out of the water? The information I can find says we compete very well with the top half of athletic budgets in conference. I have no way of proving NIL money and as far as I know neither do you.

When I read your posts all I see is excuses and opinions. Give me some data and facts and I will be all ears.

As far as criticizing your posts. What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

[raleighherdfan]

Just the same ole "we are poor little Marshall, we cannot expect good things".

There was a time when we didn't think that way. We rose from ashes to glory because of it.

When will you be donating so we can be at the pinnacle again?

 

[W-S HerdFan]

I beg to differ on Doc. While Cato was an all-timer he had some good ones that his staff either ruined or could not coach up.

Litton had the tools, but lacked maturity and after that concussion he sustained against Akron was never the same. He got guns shy.

Wells' trajectory was good until Doc and Cramsey left him flapping in the wind against Rice and he got shook.

Blake Frohnapfel could have been really good for us. I actually blame his departure for the downturn of the program. Yes Doc should have done better after, but it knocked us off schedule. Had Blake stayed in 2015 we would have most likely rolled to another conference championship and given us time to either mature or figure out Litton. We also lost another QB that while not a threat to start he was depth and we were left with bringing in Birdsong as a stop gap to Litton. He proved subpar and then blew his shoulder out in game 1 forcing Litton into action in game 3. I fully believe that Doc burning Eric's RS in 2012 led to Blake's departure after 2014. They wanted to play together and that knocked them off schedule. He also promised Blake packages after his performance at ECU when Cato went down and it never happened.

That backup that left after 2014's Spring Game was a starter on the FCS level after. So he was still decent.

Doc could bring in the talent. He recruited circles over Mr. #1 Recruiter we have now. As a matter of fact all of Huff's success here, with the exception of a couple players, has been with Doc's recruits. Doc's problem was his utilization and development of talent. A good example is Moo Moo Smith. You have a player with elite speed and yet might have been 5'6". I met Moo Moo. He was so short he made me feel like a giant and I'm 5'10" on a good day. At PSU, Devon was used in underneath speed routes. What did Doc and Legg do? Line him outside the numbers (WAY OUTSIDE) and threw 50/50 balls to him.

Doc and Cramsey weren't any better with it either. Yes Cramsey has found success at Memphis, but when he was here it was nothing but short routes and horrendous RZ playcalling.


Huff on the other hand has not brought in one single QB worth a darn. Not one. Fancher was Doc's. I don't think he would have ever played as a QB under Doc (most likely moved), but nevertheless he was Doc's. Cole is Doc's. Huff might have honored the scholarship, but Doc started his recruitment.

Colombi sucked and there were SOOOO many red flags on him he never should have been brought in.

Chase Harrison is never in the discussion.

T.J. McMahon lost his job to a busted up J.T. Daniels and had a busted up shoulder that the staff missed.

Colin Parachek is a walk-on from Morehead State.

Cade Cunningham was a nonfactor.

Braylon Braxton appears to be another Fancher.

Mitch Griffis has a good arm, but his like Fancher he had several sub 100 yard passing games and according to broadcasts his weakness is being able to read the defense.

Again. Huff is the #1 Recruiter in the country. At least was. Not one quality QB? Not one? Even if I give you that Doc lucked into Cato or Shuler was responsible for Cato, Huff hasn't been able to do that. Now either he sucks as an evaluator of QBs or maybe he never thought he'd be here this long and was just looking for quick fixes.

Either way, to this point, Huff has been very underwhelming as a recruiter.


Dan got extremely lucky with Jon Elmore choosing to leave VMI because of his grandfather's health. Had that never happened there is no championship season. And before someone calls me a hypocrite for saying Doc wasn't necessarily lucky with landing Cato. Dan didn't land Elmore in a recruiting battle out of HS. If Jon's grandfather never gets ill, he probably remains at VMI.

….and from what I’ve heard, If another #10 Greg White hadn’t let DD know about him, we wouldn’t have seen him in Kelly…..

 

[marshallsig]

I fell for it in the very beginning and took him at his word. However when he lied about keeping the defensive staff I started to raise an eyebrow. Then came his in game decision making, his lie about never taking his foot off the pedal, and then his constant throwing players under the bus.

I don't care if it was his first time being a HC. He's played, coached, and been around football long enough not to make the calls he did in that 17 point choke job at home to ECU. Then after the game blaming the WR for not catching that 4th down back shoulder fade when all we needed was 1 yard to pick up a first. Heck even punting would have been smarter.

That f…… ECU game was my first clue about CH. I am still pissed.

 

[Herdguy04]

I’ll agree that CS had nothing to do w getting the baseball stadium done, it wasn’t Big Jim Justices money either. It was tax payers money Jim gave Marshall. IMO he gets too much credit. Btw when was the last time Big Jim gave any of HIS Money to Marshall?
The kind of guy CS is, I m sure he’ll take all the credit he can. That’s why he fired Jeff Wagner CS could not bear sharing the spotlight

Gotta love the wasted energy hating on someone who makes more money, is in a high position of power over you, and doesn't even know who you are.

 

[Herdguy04]

Who is this "Cabal" you keep rambling about, exactly?

I thought maybe Kabal from Mortal Kombat 3.
Why we pay him any mind, considering he's lost his mind, is the real question.

 

[Herdguy04]

If BS believes he is doing an adequate job shepherding our athletics programs to higher ground, that’s more than fine by me. So, Lord Sam, focus on the rest of the earth’s problems! Leave the Herd alone….

What psycho Sam is trying to say is, CS is going to hire people that the MU BoG or the "cabal" want. This would include BS knowing and approving of who is being hired. Whoever CS hires, is not chosen by CS at all.
He's basically the puppet of a more influential group that Sam believes actually controls everything Marshall.

 

[Herdguy04]

It's the great philosophical argument... Would you rather go a boom or bust 10-2, 11-1 every few years and replace your head coach (UCF)... Or would you rather be a consistent 7-5, 8-4 every year (Marshall).

We got rid of Holiday because we no longer wanted to be the consistent 7-5, 8-4 every season. Unfortunately, we haven't gone the right direction the past two years and this fall isnt looking great at this juncture either.

Considering these fans go insane over a single loss, it's a no win for either.

Consistency in the G5 is next to impossible. The ability to rebuild or keep momentum going after a big season is very, very tough. I'm not even talking about ucf or Cincy, just having a winning record is hard to get.

I liked Doc because if MU wasn't winning the conference, they at least remained competitive for the division and often won more games than they lost when the season ended.

MU then gambled on the "stepping stone" mentality, forgetting what that actually means, and really seeing it with Huff.
MU doesn't, nor does really anyone just ask Notre Dame, have a brand name to keep a head coach around.

Huff can't say he's been consistent...and even after beating VT recently, fans will be quick to point out how bad that VT team was over the HC, maybe just being good that day.

Money is where it's at...always has been. Even back when Pruett was coaching, money drove much of the success Marshall had.

Coach Caldwell showed the luck MU stumbled into with her.
It's a head scratcher that MU fans, "want a young, experienced HC, who will bring a conference title to MU...then leave" and got bitter when that actually happened.
Furthermore, some don't believe she can coach at the higher level, when the higher level is what legitimizes a coach's success since they HAVE to be doing something good.
One of the premiere programs in basketball hired her, but "she will struggle with the talent of the league" yet, somehow is capable of not struggling while at Marshall. Makes no sense unless fans just admit how biased they are.
Oh, and she beat Florida so her SEC record is already good.

That's why I don't complain after a win. MU fans used to spin as much as they could about why a win wasn't good (that team was bad, their #1 player was out, if it wasn't for _____ then MU loses).

I'll take consistency over a flash in the pan, because you eventually get a championship.