Stephen Hawking announces $100 million hunt for alien life

[raleighherdfan]

So because I live at home means I don't get out?? Seriously just because I live at home doesn't mean I am locked up in the house all the time. I do enjoy my life, I live on Long Island and 35 mins from NYC. Trust me I get out enough to enjoy life

And to think we were told, you couldn't afford to live on your own??? I would have thought that the expense of "enjoying life" would have been put on hold until you got off your mom's teet. Fever claiming to be responsible = fallacy, man-made climate change = fallacy, alien-mooch like life forms living on Long Island = proven.

 

[GK4Herd]

One of the necessary fallacies is believing that aliens must be more advanced than we are.

I have always asserted this. Why do we automatically assume any sentient alien life would be more advanced. Scientist are the most guilty of this and I believe it goes all the way back to them reveling in disproving the dated held belief that man was the center of the universe. I have read countless stuff by scientist reveling in the notion that earth is both ordinary and doesn't hold any particular preferential position in the unverse. I think maybe that in their zeal for proving man insignificant in the grand scheme, a notion that dates back to Galileo's affirmation of Copernicus by observing the moons of Jupiter, that scientist assume that any intelligent life in the universe just have to be greater than ours. They may very well be correct, but until any is discovered we certainly don't know for sure.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

One of the necessary fallacies is believing that aliens must be more advanced than we are.

Given the age of the universe and the very short period of time homo sapiens has existed, it is likely that there is a more advanced life-form somewhere in the universe.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

How can you be a Christian with that belief?

Christianity requires me to believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that he died for my sins, and rose from the grave. Beyond that, I don't recall any requirements about possible extraterrestrial life. There are many lines of thoughts and beliefs in Christianity beyond the American Bible-Beater view; Keeper obviously doesn't believe rock n roll is of the devil

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

So he thinks we're dumb and weak.

Not really, but let's be honest: if an intelligent life form can cross the galaxy or the universe they are probably going to have weapons as advanced as the rest of the their technology. And if they are anything like humans (consumers with a nasty streak), they probably are on a mission of conquest and resources...much like the Vikings and Spanish conquistadors.

 

[Herd Fever]

One of the necessary fallacies is believing that aliens must be more advanced than we are.

The fact they have travelled here proves they are more advanced

 

[Herd Fever]

And to think we were told, you couldn't afford to live on your own??? I would have thought that the expense of "enjoying life" would have been put on hold until you got off your mom's teet. Fever claiming to be responsible = fallacy, man-made climate change = fallacy, alien-mooch like life forms living on Long Island = proven.

Yes, I so live off my moms teet that I pay my own bills, purchase my own food and clothing. And the fact I would rather pay my mom a few hundreds of dollars instead of coming up with thousands just to move into an apartment means I live on her own teet. Granted I lived on my own from 18-28 and only moved back home to save money and not have to live in a house with 6 other people just to pay a low rent. You know me of so well but its cool hide behind the computer to talk shit

 

[Walden Pond]

And the fact I would rather pay my mom a few hundreds of dollars instead of coming up with thousands just to move into an apartment means I live on her own teet.

You said it.

 

[GK4Herd]

If it isn't in our solar system we won't find it unless it is sentient and broadcasting out stuff. If it's here (which it probably is, I'm looking at you Europa) it's within reach, but the only observations we'll be able to make on planets in other solar systems will be monitoring to see if we can detect intentionally created signals.

I agree with a definitive discovery, but they can certainly find the markers for life within the atmosphere of these exoplanets. The two new telescopes being rolled out will advance our knowledge in that regard. I'm looking forward to planned missions to visit some of the moons of Jupiter and Venus. But we need to be able to drill through the ice and reach the liquid oceans underneath. We need to advance our technology further for that.

I agree with your point about discovering sentient life outside our solar system. The vastness of space makes it very unlikely to discover even if it's there. Listening and looking for patterns in the cosmos is a very tedious undertaking. We have looked into a thimble of water from the ocean of the universe. We need to keep dipping.

Our problem is very simple, the laws of physics that limit our own ability to explore our universe exists everywhere in the universe. So even if there is an advanced species out there with the ability to travel the speed of light, the possibility of being able to explore any substantial part of existence is not possible. In a human lifetime we could maybe explore 100 stars and have the ability to bring that information back to earth. That isn't even a thimble of water in the ocean. What about the whole travel through a wormhole thing to shortcut our way across the universe? That involves the manipulation of black holes. That is about as insurmountable physics limitation as you can get.

Quite simply we may never know. Not because it doesn't exist, but simply because it exceeds the boundaries of physical capability. I'll take discovery of microbial life in my lifetime and be extremely happy to have witnessed it.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

Raoul, just using evolutionary biology as a starting point, scientists are agreed that millions of variables had to be perfectly aligned for homo sapiens to exist as sentient beings. As GK notes all planets, solar systems, galaxies, etc... exist under the same laws of physics that we do. Those two points tell me, logically, that if other sentient life forms exist they only do so under the same restrictions that we have. In other words the great retardant to space flight currently is not so much propulsion, but metallurgy. It is the same reason we still fly F-16's and that the only real improvement is in avionics, not airframe.

This is one of the reasons nearly all Sci Fi that posits contact between humans and aliens requires an deus ex machina device which posits aliens have developed advanced polymers and/or "stronger than metal" substances which can withstand light-year pressures.

 

[GeauxHerd]

Yes, I so live off my moms teet that I pay my own bills, purchase my own food and clothing. And the fact I would rather pay my mom a few hundreds of dollars instead of coming up with thousands just to move into an apartment means I live on her own teet. Granted I lived on my own from 18-28 and only moved back home to save money and not have to live in a house with 6 other people just to pay a low rent. You know me of so well but its cool hide behind the computer to talk shit

I think we found out who fever is:

 

[GeauxHerd]

Raoul, just using evolutionary biology as a starting point, scientists are agreed that millions of variables had to be perfectly aligned for homo sapiens to exist as sentient beings. As GK notes all planets, solar systems, galaxies, etc... exist under the same laws of physics that we do. Those two points tell me, logically, that if other sentient life forms exist they only do so under the same restrictions that we have. In other words the great retardant to space flight currently is not so much propulsion, but metallurgy. It is the same reason we still fly F-16's and that the only real improvement is in avionics, not airframe.

This is one of the reasons nearly all Sci Fi that posits contact between humans and aliens requires an deus ex machina device which posits aliens have developed advanced polymers and/or "stronger than metal" substances which can withstand light-year pressures.

The fact that humans are here is even a miracle. Look at the sub species that existed up until we started coming about. Modern Humans were born of severe climate change and even then it took over 100k years for the human "Spark" to take us on the path we are on. Life may exist elsewhere and be plentiful, but Human type life will likely be exceedingly rare

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

They can be more advanced than us but not travel through space. That is two separate arguments; is there life, and at that more advanced life, and could aliens travel to us.

 

[GeauxHerd]

They can be more advanced than us but not travel through space. That is two separate arguments; is there life, and at that more advanced life, and could aliens travel to us.

There is no Intelligent life like us within 35 light years for sure, we would have heard back by now if that was the case.

 

[i am herdman]

Isn't Stephen Hawking an alien?

 

[GK4Herd]

There may be older star systems and planets in the universe but that doesn't necessarily mean that the conditions that gave rise to life existed in the same time frame as Earth's did. One theory, panspermia, says that the material necessary for life, which didn't exist in the early formation of the Earth, was introduced through meteors. The position of a planet, whether it lies in a debris belt prone to being hit, or just random luck of the draw isn't determined by age of a planet.

Also consider biological evolution. The rise of life through evolution is fickle. There are more extinct life then there are life that exists on Earth. Survival of a specie is determined by environmental factors. Just because a planet has biological evolution, doesn't mean that an intelligent creature like man will arise from it. Remember it was a wayward meteor that proved to be the death knell of dinosaurs. What if that meteor hit during the evolution of early man instead. With the mass extinction of plants and animals would man have survived? Again, nothing to do with the age of a planet or star system.

But let's say age of a planet IS a factor in the rise of life. Stars have a shelf life. Who's to say that advanced civilizations have arisen in the universe only to be consumed by a swelling star (like our sun will do when it fuses most of its hydrogen) or a larger stars that go supernova. Maybe intelligent life existed but become extinct by depleting the limited resources of their planet. It's possible that intelligent life has existed countless times only to be a victim of the uncaring laws of physics.

My thoughts are that it's possible for life to be more advanced out there, but they're shackled to their corner of the universe by the laws of physics. Or maybe we are one of the most intelligent, still living life in the universe. Until we figure out a way to overcome physical limitations we'll have to be satisfied with turning over rocks on Mars or hopefully boring through the ice on Europa.

 

[GK4Herd]

There is no Intelligent life like us within 35 light years for sure, we would have heard back by now if that was the case.

But when they do their first words will be, "Lucy, I'm home!"


By the way...great HG Wells comment. I make my 4th grade class read War of the World every year. I get there interest by playing the opening of Orson Wells famous radio broadcast.

 

[i am herdman]

The fact they have travelled here proves they are more advanced

Or they just walked into a trap.

 

[Walden Pond]

Quite simply we may never know. Not because it doesn't exist, but simply because it exceeds the boundaries of physical capability. I'll take discovery of microbial life in my lifetime and be extremely happy to have witnessed it.

And this one belongs to the Reds.

 

[GeauxHerd]

But when they do their first words will be, "Lucy, I'm home!"


By the way...great HG Wells comment. I make my 4th grade class read War of the World every year. I get there interest by playing the opening of Orson Wells famous radio broadcast.

Actually it would probably be more like the movie Contact as you know who was on the on the first radio tv broadcast. Bravo on having the kids read that. One of my favorite books.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

Define "Intelligent Life"

Is this merely a materialistic statement? (Using materialistic in its philosophical sense, not commercial)

 

[GK4Herd]

And this one belongs to the Reds.

Pretend that's a laughing emoticon. What happened to the laughing one?

 

[GK4Herd]

Actually it would probably be more like the movie Contact as you know who was on the on the first radio tv broadcast.

Hitler...I should have sent a poet.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

There is no Intelligent life like us within 35 light years for sure, we would have heard back by now if that was the case.

That assumes they would be intelligent enough to be in a radio age, use the same means of electronic communication as us, and that they would actually want to respond.

 

[GeauxHerd]

That assumes they would be intelligent enough to be in a radio age, use the same means of electronic communication as us, and that they would actually want to respond.

Surely they would have some kind of signal that we could intercept. Plus seti has been listening to places further away than 35 light years, since the 50s and 60s. When the James Webb telescope is operable in space we will get a better idea of our surroundings as far as sustainable life goes.

 

[raleighherdfan]

You know me of so well but its cool hide behind the computer to talk shit

no shit talking here. Just typing a reply to you on an ISP service that I don't need my mom to pay for.

 

[wvkeeper(HN)]

There is a liquor cabinet in the 140' telescope at NRAO in Green Bank that SETI uses which awaits opening.

 

[riflearm2]

What does being a Christian have to do with anything? God created the Heavens, the earth, and the universe. So anything that is out there obviously is part of God's plan

The bible claims that humans have dominion over all living creatures.

One of the necessary fallacies is believing that aliens must be more advanced than we are.

Agreed. But, if they are, that severely hurts the dominion statement in the bible.

It also is just one more instance of the four corners of the earth reference, being on a huge mountain and being able to see all of your god's creation, and the other incorrect references which, as GK pointed out, were eventually argued by Christians to be errors in translation after science accepted that the earth wasn't flat.

 

[extragreen]

The bible claims that humans have dominion over all living creatures

Book and verse?

 

[GK4Herd]

There is a liquor cabinet in the 140' telescope at NRAO in Green Bank that SETI uses which awaits opening.

We've had this discussion before, but I remember you saying that your father worked at Green Bank. Frank Drake, one of the early pioneers at SETI also spent time at Green Bank. Not sure if he was there when your dad was there, but the guy is a legend. He was the one who developed the Drake Equation, giving mathematical probability of the existence of intelligent life, as well as working with Carl Sagan. Drake and Sagan worked together on developing the Pioneer Plaque as well as the Voyager Golden Record.

I'd love to open that liquor cabinet and tip a shot with the scientist the day they detect a signal that indicated intelligent life in the cosmos. I'd love to hear more about what your dad did at Green Bank.

 

[Herd Fever]

The bible claims that humans have dominion over all living creatures.

Living things on Earth not the entire universe

 

[i am herdman]

You all really think Green Bank is totally listening for aliens? That stuff was built to listen to the commies.

 

[riflearm2]

Living things on Earth not the entire universe

Where in the bible does it say that he created the universe and not earth?

 

[Herd Fever]

Where in the bible does it say that he created the universe and not earth?

Can you not read? I definitely said he created the Heavens, earth, and the universe

 

[riflearm2]

Can you not read? I definitely said he created the Heavens, earth, and the universe

I'm asking for you to simply copy and paste that scripture. It shouldn't take more than 60 seconds of your time to google it.

 

[Herd Fever]

If that's all that's need maybe you should do the job. You might learn a few things

 

[riflearm2]

If that's all that's need maybe you should do the job. You might learn a few things

So, you can't find any scripture supporting your claim?

 

[Herd Fever]

No jackass, I know its there. I want you to find it.

 

[riflearm2]

If you can't prove something which you claim is so easy, your statement is wrong.

 

[Herd Fever]

Statement isn't wrong, just want an atheist like yourself to open the bible and learn something