The CUSA schools that left for the AAC/Big East were the schools that wanted that deal. No one knew at the time outside of ESPN that ESPN would go on a campaign to destroy the credibility of CUSA and talk the Big East into poaching certain CUSA schools away.
THE AMERICAN!!!!! Given $1 Billion Over 12 Years by ESPN
- Thread starter wvkeeper(HN)
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Huntington is still a much safer place than Norfolk, VA. The crime on the campus at ODU is probably higher than Huntington overall.
CUSA destroyed itself. Any idiot would know you don’t go with a network that no one knew of outside of a few industry gurus. KO was right about this one. One of the few things he got right.
If crime were a factor the University of Dayton, UMBC, St Louis U, U of Detroit would all be independents. Nasty towns.
It would not have mattered what CUSA did in adding which schools as replacements, it was gonna be chump change TV whether Troy etc was approached vs. who got invited, wouldn't have mattered. It matters to us fans, but not the TV guys. The schools it really sucks for is us and USM, we belonged with those that left, just on brand and tradition. CUSA leadership is the problem, Judy and some of these AD's have to go, we want to blame all of it on her but the AD's lead this conference too. Of course Ban Ban set her up to fail, but that woman has no personality. With 5 remaining schools, we should have been getting at least MAC dollars, but nope, we get sunbelt dollars and we know what that means, payday 1 and done games just to stay in the black. Every conference but us and the belt has made it to the thanks for playing bowl, nothing will change until we can pull some good out of conference wins and make it to that bowl. Until then, they view this group as nothing...
Is there anyway to take the top 5 or 6 CUSA and SunBelt teams and make a new conference?
Or given how the P5s continue to out pace and out grow the G5s, can we go ahead and split them into two different divisions?
Huntington's violent crime rate is substantially higher than Huntington's. Hell, other than theft, Huntington's crime rate in every category is higher than Norfolk's. That includes murder, rape, robbery, assault, burglary, and vehicle theft.
https://www.areavibes.com/compare-results/?place1=Norfolk, VA&place2=Huntington, WV#cri
Why would you want that? The P5 would like to have that, I wouldn't give it to them and if they want that, stop playing them, let them beat each other up with no sure wins. As far as top 5 or 6 CUSA schools, it looks like old Guard, us, UAB, USM. UTEP and Rice doesn't really help much in anything these days. Ok so what 3 newbies would you add? WKU, MTSU, ODU/FAU? Big ole can of worms. Ok in the belt, who would be poached? Ark St., App State, Ga Southern, ULL, Troy, toss up between Coastal and Georgia State, I would go for Coastal since we don't have a presence in SC. In any terms, figuring out the top 5 or 6 CUSA schools is more difficult than figuring out the top of the Sunbelt. Its all possible but would require a good deal of cash to pay all the fees...........newly formed leagues also do not get an auto bid to the NCAA right away and would be left negotiating with existing bowls......so it would be a rough start.
What you're saying is the financial assistance given to MU through its advertising, isn't worth it...and instead of closing the financial gap, MU should just do away with it to improve gameday atmosphere?
Not having listed anything that would fill in for the advertising time to reduce the costs of going to said games...from a fanbase who lose their minds if MU raises their ticket prices $5.00 and complains the ticket prices are too high as it is.
Chryons? MU does that already.
You said I underestimate the amount of money generated at CUSA venues...you seem to underestimate how much it would cost MU if they didn't do this.
Advertising revenue helps offset the costs of empty seats. If MU is hosting a big game then not only do you have the revenue from a full stadium, but you also have revenue from advertising during the game.
I have never heard any opposing fan complain about the excessive advertising during a game. I wonder if it is because they're used to it where they are.
Also, you said 20,000 people staring at their shoes vs people on the internet.
Thats exactly why advertisers pay for gameday airtime. They don't care about the numbers, they just care (and know) a lot of people will be in one area for a long period of time. Thats how advertising works...thats why media markets matter when you have garbage programs (aka Rutgers being in the Big 10). They don't know how many people will buy a product with advertising but they do know an increase in chances for their product being seen in a big market is likely.
Same with MU during a game.
Before you misunderstand, I am not saying MU has the market size of New Jersey. I am saying that on a Saturday afternoon, there is a very good chance that people will be at an MU game, which is where businesses focus their marketing.
Given the previous threads and posts about MU's fanbase being very dedicated, its a smart move for businesses to do.
Where did I compare MU to Alabama and Texas, etc? I merely said they're adopting a model for revenue generation that a successful program uses.
Thing is the big programs likely don't need to do it as much, but they do it just as much as we do. Why? BECAUSE IT MAKES MONEY!
MU is in a position where every dollar counts.
But honest question...what do you propose MU do during the breaks in games...that will not make fans having to pay more money and generate revenue for the program?
I think some fans still want to believe tradition or 1999 is enough to get us upward.
Its not. Maybe 15 years ago, but not now.
Its about money and narketing MU doesn't have a lot of either but can make progress with what it does have. Why else does Tulane get an invite over MU? Who has a much better brand?
Houston has tons of money as does ucf when they decided to try football. Ecu even has money despite their inability to win anything.
Teams with money can be driven to do more because of it. Tradition used to mean something but it hasn't in a while.
I think some MU fans need to begin to accept that.
Does this mean apocalypse? No. Not at all.
But it does mean a shift in attitude needs to be established.
I don't disagree, but please leave markets out of this, CUSA went for markets, how did that turn out. Name recognition with a market, sure, it worked for the AAC. Tulsa, ECU didn't have anything going for them but they did have bigger budgets. Name recognition means a ton when selling a product, tradition created that recognition, same thing for USM and UAB, WKU in basketball. Now look at the rest of CUSA, markets but no product to sell... markets are not the reason AAC got what they did, name recognition and performance of programs is
Maybe you have the wrong people in certain positions other than to be mediocre.
I would say that they’re equal.
Huntington is so bad it is worse than itself.
I appreciate the time and thought that many of you have put into your posts on here. I try not to judge any of them for accuracy, I prefer to read differences of opinion and see how it compares to my thoughts.
When I hear or see "We Are Marshall" or say it to someone, it has a meaning to me that goes beyond being part of the history and sense of shared experience. To me, it recognizes that "We" are different, and in that difference, we know that we aren't Alabama as much as we aren't WVU, or Ohio, or a Western Kentucky either.
I believe our future will be dependent on recognizing that we are different and that we will need to operate differently than others. Can we turn being different into being distinctive?
I try to think what Marshall can and should be, then compare that to where we are. In general, I think MH has done an outstanding job as AD, controlling what he can control. No one is perfect, and I suspect he would admit his mistakes, too.
As others have pointed out, it is inevitable that some sort of change will occur in the finances of college football. You can't deny the law of supply and demand, but you can work on influencing the equation. My opinion, or maybe more accurately my guess, is that we will continue to be on the "edge" -- neither a low valued entity nor a high valued P5 prospect. Too many factors are against that. So the success of Marshall will come not in brute force, but in finesse, in anticipating what moves to make before they need to be made.
The only positions for us are:
1. Hope that CUSA somehow retains at least something close to current dollars, or
2. Hope that the P5 regroups smaller and that some schools drop to a new league we can be a part of, or
3. Hope that the G5 regroup in some way, create their own division, and figure out a reasonable financial package.
There are no currently available assets by which we can move significantly up, regardless of how good our teams are. There are some options that could create some assets but will take years to develop. The designation as a research university is a start. Thanks for reading, and GO HERD!
When I hear or see "We Are Marshall" or say it to someone, it has a meaning to me that goes beyond being part of the history and sense of shared experience. To me, it recognizes that "We" are different, and in that difference, we know that we aren't Alabama as much as we aren't WVU, or Ohio, or a Western Kentucky either.
I believe our future will be dependent on recognizing that we are different and that we will need to operate differently than others. Can we turn being different into being distinctive?
I try to think what Marshall can and should be, then compare that to where we are. In general, I think MH has done an outstanding job as AD, controlling what he can control. No one is perfect, and I suspect he would admit his mistakes, too.
As others have pointed out, it is inevitable that some sort of change will occur in the finances of college football. You can't deny the law of supply and demand, but you can work on influencing the equation. My opinion, or maybe more accurately my guess, is that we will continue to be on the "edge" -- neither a low valued entity nor a high valued P5 prospect. Too many factors are against that. So the success of Marshall will come not in brute force, but in finesse, in anticipating what moves to make before they need to be made.
The only positions for us are:
1. Hope that CUSA somehow retains at least something close to current dollars, or
2. Hope that the P5 regroups smaller and that some schools drop to a new league we can be a part of, or
3. Hope that the G5 regroup in some way, create their own division, and figure out a reasonable financial package.
There are no currently available assets by which we can move significantly up, regardless of how good our teams are. There are some options that could create some assets but will take years to develop. The designation as a research university is a start. Thanks for reading, and GO HERD!
Xhrdsid - that is waaay too well thought through! Very balanced and realistic, with a hint of optimism and Herd patriotism at the finish...96 points!
Correct. The idea that 65-ish schools weirdly wedged in-between I-AA and the true majors can form a division that produces a legitimate champion, or a sport that anybody cares about, is just wrong. If the G5 is not for a particular program, then move down, in most cases, back down.
Frankly, the NCAA should just do an audit for G5 schools.
Some really shouldn't be D1. There are some who have something to offer; fans, money, combo of both, winning, etc.
Most, if not all the MAC would be FCS. The bottom 4 or 5 of CUSA. I am not sure of the Sunbelt but a few from there.
MWC would likely drop 1 or 2. AAC could lose a few too like UConn.
All to condense the quality of G5 because if MU, Boise, App State, UCF, etc are in the same conference and share it with others who can compete, bring fans, and are willing to invest it in football, I think it improves the brand itself.
Frankly, there are a few G5 schools who genuinely are trying to improve and be productive versus many who just try to tread water, collect a paycheck, and do nothing.
That's the problem, the NCAA won't do a darn thing of that nature, many programs need to do what Idaho did but they aren't going to voluntarily leave. NMSU is fighting to stay as well as UMass, what does that tell you? Then there are programs in the MAC in financial trouble, like Akron and EMU (damn shame about Akron too, nice new stadium). CUSA is not much different than the MAC, neither is the belt. There are bunch of schools with subsidies that cover way too much of their athletic programs. Both F_U schools ride off the backs of their large enrollments, ODU did until it was mandated by the state that is had to decrease it, I have no idea about Charlotte.
Bottom line is the NCAA changes its mind on guidelines to be FBS at every turn. When we joined, you had to have a 30k seat stadium, well obviously that is not the case anymore, damn high school stadiums in our own conference. The it was the attendance rule, they backed off that too. The only way an FBS school goes to FCS, is if they are going bankrupt. If we stay in CUSA in it's current form, we will be lumped right into that group with a hand out begging for money. I don't know what the answer is, obviously not the AAC, but there needs to be something happening. Best supported schools from CUSA and Belt creating their own thing? Go back to the MAC? who knows. A lot are against the MAC, but it hits home when they are being paid twice what we are now in TV revenue. We played mid week games while we were there, don't recall it killing the gate. Anyways, something needs to happen, who knows what that something is...
This version of CUSA is nothing but a disaster, it has lost so much value from what it was. Went for markets instead of quality programs, even though we did get a few quality programs. The conference is Texas centered, we no longer fit. Basketball is never going to be what it was, last time there was a multi-bid, memphis was here and UTEP was good, as well as UAB. Football has no identity and no one cares about the other sports..
The MAC is a lost cause. The NCAA tried a half-dozen times to force it down to I-AA and finally just gave up trying in the face of ticket loopholes (one school had a booster buy 10000 tickets and shred them, another played a "home" game versus Michigan State in the Lions' stadium before 99.9% MSU fans), lawsuits and political interference.
IMHO, participation in I-A (the FBS FCS names are stupid) should require an average of 20K actual people actually coming to the game with no loopholes or magic tricks.
IMHO, participation in I-A (the FBS FCS names are stupid) should require an average of 20K actual people actually coming to the game with no loopholes or magic tricks.
If I were Marshall I would consider going to the Sunbelt and start playing App State, Coastal Carolina, and Georgia Southern, Troy State, and a game in Atlanta every other year against Georgia State. Southern based league in alumni areas and teams with some rivalries and teams with more of a chance to be solid programs. Work it out and play Coastal when Allegient and Spirit are still flying down there and they could probably charter flights to Myrtle just like a bowl game. App State is near or really might have passed us up as a program, GA Southern rich history, Troy State good history, and Coastal will be a very solid program shortly.
Most of these teams in CUSA are never going to do jack squat and will never have any tradition nor fan base.
Most of these teams in CUSA are never going to do jack squat and will never have any tradition nor fan base.
I like your idea. We have nothing in common with the Texas schools and little with the schools in Louisiana. We are a southeastern school in my opinion and so is our fans base. When people start talking about going back to the MAC....I can never understand that. Those schools in general looked down their nose at us. Plus they have terrible fan bases. They are caught up in rooting for Michigan or Ohio State. Coastal, Troy and such are passionate about their schools and teams. Doesn’t mean they wouldn’t pull for USC, Clemson, Auburn or Alabama....but most of their enenrgy is spent on their school. I think a move to the Sunbelt would be better. I don’t believe in a future cataclysmic shift of realignment. The people in the P5 are set until the end of time. We never had snowballs chance in hell being part of it anyway, so why should we care.
Agree, those schools want to win and are passionate. Coastal is building on to their stadium right now. It will be really nice when done. Troy wants to win. GA Southern wants to win. App wants to win and frankly they have more fire in the ADept than we do right now. They do have some schools in LA and Arkansas, but they all want to win.
CUSA is boooooooooorrrinnngggggg.
This Coastal lovefest is completely inflated. They are struggling immensely to get people to games. Their booster club is having to buy thousands of tickets to give away for free in order to reach the 15,000 NCAA mandate so that they don’t get punished.
It makes no sense for their stadium expansion considering they can’t come close to filling what they have now and the base of their stadium is very amateurish looking.
It makes no sense for their stadium expansion considering they can’t come close to filling what they have now and the base of their stadium is very amateurish looking.
Not sure where you found the details of the deal. More than likely made them up. But very few details have been released. The reporter who broke the story was on a Ucf radio program and said that the football games in the contract will remain the same as it is on the ESPN tv platforms. That ESPN+ will get what is currently on Espn 3 and ESPN news.
You can rationalize all you want, you have been wrong about the Aac all along. Marshall needs to make itself as attractive as possible to get an invite to the Aac.
Maybe the stadium can be used for other games, like the upcoming bowl game there. It makes sense because the school is going to grow.
They have only been in the Sunbelt since 2016. They have only been playing football since 2003. They went to the FCS playoffs 6 times. Won 7 conference championships(counting co championships).
Should we compare that to Charlotte or even Old Dominion's histories?
I remember when that school was a community college. The enrollment is right there with Marshall's now for undergrads. Don't count them out. Their campus is very nice. Their baseball program is top notch and so is their baseball stadium. The school is going to continue to grow and is already a better program than Charlotte and hell probably better than better than Old Dominion is some regards. What the hell did Old Dominion ever do in football?
Furthermore 737,000 West Virginians go to Myrtle Beach every year.
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Coastal is just location, same as FAU, if they attract flies, all they have is location. We honestly don't need anymore schools that no one comes to see. Georgia State is in the same deal, no one comes out for them either.
I live in Hampton Roads and Norfolk is a grade A shit hole. The ODU campus is surrounded by some of the high crime areas that most people wouldn't feel comfortable going through after dark without some protection.
That's great, but it doesn't change the fallacy that you posted. Huntington has a far higher overall crime rate and far higher violent crime rate than Norfolk. Based on that, claiming that Huntington is "far safer" makes as much sense as arguing that the AMERICAN!!! isn't better than C-USA.
Coastal is just one part of the Sunbelt. How about Appalachian, Georgia Southern? Right now App is likely a better program than Marshall is right now. At least people would go to Coastal to see a game.
That's a little disingenuous when you can Roku ESPN+, as I do. And it's $5 a month, not $7.
Black bike week is in May, so you shouldn't have a problem going to the game.
The amount of $$ is in the public media, and the amounts the True Majors get are listed, with sources, upthread. So for all the "power 6" BS, when push comes to shove, the AAC admitted it was not the second it signed for G5 money.
The location of the games in terms of the paywalled internet ESPN+ and the numbers of games on "real" TV (and, BTW, that makes less difference every day, which is why you find me on the other side in the constant bit*hing about our games being on the internet, you cannot have it both ways, if you want to bit*h about CUSA on the internet, well the AAC is too) was widely reported. In football terms, 28 games on "real" ESPNs, 3 on ABC. ESPN has been placing some games on ESPN3 (free internet) and selling 15 or so games to CBSSN. Under the new deal, these will end and go behind the ESPN+ paywall.
As to your bad case of AAC envy, dude, it will NEVER happen. As explained, we bring nothing to the table that the AAC wants. Simple math. We don't fit, and, short of an economic miracle, never will. We have to do more with less. That is part of what being a MU fan is all about.
It makes a huge difference, because everybody knows herdman despises motorcycles
I never said anything bad about app or the real GSU, or troy etc. All I stated was all Coastal and Georgia State have is location, they don't have a following, they dont have a core fanbase. We have seen location in the current CUSA, how much more of that cake do you want? Coastal has a lot to prove and Georgia State does, even as good as their basketball team has been, you should look up their attendance even in basketball, it's bad bad.
When a college sporting event cannot make the top 100 list as the most popular thing to do on a Saturday in the town/city in which you reside, then attendance is going to suffer.
