The Marshall Press

[herdalicious]

At some point, someone charged with covering Herd sports needs to ask in a presser, "Coach Holliday, with the season over, what competitive advantage does continuing to mask player injuries provide you?"

Just once, I'd like to see Doc Holliday answer a hard question. I sympathize with the sportswriters' predicament - if they try to actually do their jobs and report on what's happening, they get locked out of practice. That said, coverage of Marshall football is so sterile and toothless its pointless - most articles could be written by anyone with a copy of a box score or access to ESPN.com. No insight into what's happening, no scoops, nothing interesting to note, just a lot of "undisclosed" things happening in a state-funded football program that wouldn't have helmets if the taxpayers and students didn't have to buy them for them.

This season was the culmination of six years of Holliday's approach - the wheels came off, the program has collapsed, and we could be looking at a 2-3 year rebuild - the sort of thing that would get most coaches fired, or at least publicly criticized. But who knows what we're looking at? Who knows how many players are leaving? What if our current coaching staff has steered our program into an iceberg, and we're going to be looking up at Charlotte and Old Dominion for the next ten years? How would we even know?

 

[jocktalker]

As a general rule, Marshall fans can't handle the truth. Chuck Landon is the only regular beat columnist/reporter who dares to be critical but he often makes enough mistakes in his reporting to generate plenty of detractors.

Marshall fans want only to hear platitudes about the team 24/7, win every game and fantasize how the Herd would do vs the best teams in the country.

 

[sistersville]

what happened with litton,,dope,,what

 

[Marshallgirl15]

The thing is, the injury wasn't from the football field. It's being lied and covered up about.

 

[ToesMU]

Thing is, as much as we fans may want to know everything, we won't, nor do we have the right to.....say what you want about Doc's coaching skills, he's absolutely correct in not airing all the dirty laundry in public

 

[HerdFan73]

Thing is, as much as we fans may want to know everything, we won't, nor do we have the right to.....say what you want about Doc's coaching skills, he's absolutely correct in not airing all the dirty laundry in public

Doc doesn't even air the clean laundry. It's past tiresome.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Toes posted "as much as we fans may want to know everything, we won't, nor do we have the right to". I know you are referring to players BUT when it comes to the assistant coaches whose salaries we are contributing to YES we do have a right and he needs to honor that and let us know what, if anything, he plans to do other than vaguely say coaching issues will be discussed.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

what happened with litton,,dope,,what

 

[ToesMU]

Sorry, we don't have the right to know all that's going on in the shewey, especially as various options are being explored.....try submitting a freedom of information act request for that one and see how quickly it gets shot down

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Sorry, we don't have the right to know all that's going on in the shewey,

We do have the right to expect Doc to not flat out lie. If there is a discipline issue, just say it is a discipline issue and leave it at that. We don't need to know if he was smoking dope, if it was sativa or indica, and if he rolled a blunt or hit a bowl. But don't lie and blame an injury, because if it turns out that isn't true and the player is dismissed then Doc looks like a lying SOB and that does not put asses in seats.

 

[ToesMU]

but while we may want him to say that, we don't have the right to make him
say it...and, to be honest, i really don't mind him not throwing kids under the public bus

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

but while we may want him to say that, we don't have the right to make him
say it...and, to be honest, i really don't mind him not throwing kids under the public bus

Bullshit we don't. We buy the damn tickets. The press here is too chickenshit to hold him to it, but this lack of control of the team will lead to fewer asses in seats next season, I promise you.

And it isn't throwing a player (they are not kids) under the bus. Throwing a player under the bus is the coach blaming a player for a loss, saying they are a worthless piece of shit, etc. You think the spotlight is hot here? LMAO. Live around some big-time programs. I live near three of the biggest basketball programs in the nation, and all three coaches will flat-out tell the press if a player is lazy in practice last week or gets in trouble. And they might as well because the press will find out and publish it anyway.

 

[Rock98Dog]

Doc has made the statement, on more than one occasion, that this is not "his" team and that the team "belongs" to the city and the fans. Obviously, that was a BS statement or he believes ownership does not merit knowledge.

 

[ToesMU]

Raoul, i live in acc country, so I certainly understand 'big time' college athletics....but no college coach should play personnel decisions out in the press - total recipe for disaster. And for any of us to expect there aren't going to be big changes made this week and next following weeks is beyond naive. Doc came out and said everything is being evaluated, starting yesterday (actually i would bet the process started a few weeks ago). We need to let him do his job - if changes aren't made, THEN lets start the screaming.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

no college coach should play personnel decisions out in the press - total recipe for disaster.

Says who? I see Pitino and Calipari do it every week right here on the six o'clock news. Seems to work fine for them.

 

[ilmherdfan]

Doug Smock had a good article in today's Gazette.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports...shalls-opponents-dont-see-same-fire-from-herd

 

[herdalicious]

For me, its about transparency. On the heels of a 3-9 season no one saw coming, where several players just left the team without comment from anybody, and it felt like everybody developed a season-ending injury of some sort, chalking it up to "undisclosed" just doesn't seem to cut it for me.

Kevin Grooms was insane. Literally, the kid is in prison now, but could just as well be in a mental institution. Stew Butler wasn't far behind him. You know what both of those guys had in common? Both of them were arrested during their time at Marshall multiple times, and on at least one arrest for each, the public didn't find out about it until weeks after the fact. If you think this opaqueness only extends to elbow injuries and sore ankles, you need to call Art Briles.

 

[bbneutralfan]

Toes it may be ok for you to not want to hear the truth from the Shewey Building but I do.
If you don't then I respect that. However, many of the rest of us want to know what the hell is going on before we spend anymore dollars on Doc's staff.

 

[pdbailey]

Toes posted "as much as we fans may want to know everything, we won't, nor do we have the right to". I know you are referring to players BUT when it comes to the assistant coaches whose salaries we are contributing to YES we do have a right and he needs to honor that and let us know what, if anything, he plans to do other than vaguely say coaching issues will be discussed.

If Doc were to discuss a current coaches position and potential firing publicly then he would set MU up for a huge lawsuit. You can't do that type of thing nor should he.

 

[pdbailey]

Says who? I see Pitino and Calipari do it every week right here on the six o'clock news. Seems to work fine for them.

They are both idiots that spout off at the mouth, but both have absolute power in their positions, and are backed by powerful boosters.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

They are both idiots that spout off at the mouth

How many championship and Finals Fours have you coached? They must be doing something right.

Coach K does the same thing, too.

 

[pdbailey]

How many championship and Finals Fours have you coached? They must be doing something right.

Coach K does the same thing, too.

I didn't say they weren't good coaches, I said they were idiots, and they are both powerful and protected.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

I didn't say they weren't good coaches, I said they were idiots, and they are both powerful and protected.

So let's add Coach K to the idiot list? Powerful and protected, but by all accounts a really mean son of a bitch.

Bob Knight didn't bullshit about his players, either. Another idiot?

We are up to 11 championships for the idiots.

 

[i am herdman]

Doc was one of a few coaches who would not even answer what type of music he listened to.

Hey Doc:

 

[pdbailey]

So let's add Coach K to the idiot list? Powerful and protected, but by all accounts a really mean son of a bitch.

Bob Knight didn't bullshit about his players, either. Another idiot?

We are up to 11 championships for the idiots.

Your twisting words, and just trying to start a fight. I said they are good coaches that can say or do whatever the ****ing hell they want because they are ****ing more powerful than most of the politicians in D.C. By the way, I didn't call Coach K an idiot, even though I hate Duke. As for Knight, he's as basketball smart as Pitino and Calipari put together and I would have played for him in a heart beat. You can't compare them to Doc in terms of the power to say and do whatever they want as Doc doesn't have the historical credit behind him that they do.

 

[oldeherd]

Doug Smock had a good article in today's Gazette.

http://www.wvgazettemail.com/sports...shalls-opponents-dont-see-same-fire-from-herd

Yeah, Smock's column was dead spot on. Told it like it is as to what kind of mess or clusterf#$k this year's team has become. Not sure Doc even knows what has hit him or has any real idea on what to do about it to correct the problems!!!

 

[ilmherdfan]

Looks like Grant Taylor also laid it out pretty well in the H-D. I read it on another board so I don't have a link. I've used up my 10 free articles so I cannot view it online.

 

[ToesMU]

Just let this play out before throwing fits.....if no changes happen, or what you/we feel are wrong changes happen, thrn by all means we all should go off....but let the process play itself out

 

[19MU88]

So let's add Coach K to the idiot list? Powerful and protected, but by all accounts a really mean son of a bitch.

Bob Knight didn't bullshit about his players, either. Another idiot?

We are up to 11 championships for the idiots.

Don't even try and have intelligent discussion with PD.

He has backed off a little but he still tries to explain away Docs weaknesses. PD has been dead wrong for years on this

 

[dangerousdaneerfan]

For me, its about transparency. On the heels of a 3-9 season no one saw coming, where several players just left the team without comment from anybody, and it felt like everybody developed a season-ending injury of some sort, chalking it up to "undisclosed" just doesn't seem to cut it for me.

Kevin Grooms was insane. Literally, the kid is in prison now, but could just as well be in a mental institution. Stew Butler wasn't far behind him. You know what both of those guys had in common? Both of them were arrested during their time at Marshall multiple times, and on at least one arrest for each, the public didn't find out about it until weeks after the fact. If you think this opaqueness only extends to elbow injuries and sore ankles, you need to call Art Briles.

I saw a list of the NQ's that are eligible for next year. Building a program on NQ's is a formula for disaster.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Your twisting words, and just trying to start a fight. I said they are good coaches that can say or do whatever the ****ing hell they want because they are ****ing more powerful than most of the politicians in D.C. By the way, I didn't call Coach K an idiot, even though I hate Duke. As for Knight, he's as basketball smart as Pitino and Calipari put together and I would have played for him in a heart beat. You can't compare them to Doc in terms of the power to say and do whatever they want as Doc doesn't have the historical credit behind him that they do.

I am not trying to start a fight; and if I were I would win this one. I don't just make lazy statements. I am not twisting anything. The discussion we are having is about coaches not completely bullshitting the fans and press. I've named coaches that will flat out say why a player is not starting; while all of these coaches are total dicks, they manage to do so without throwing a player under the bus or going into all the lurid details that led to a suspension for violating team rules. It has nothing to do with power or being protected, and everything to do with their local media not being soft. Today's media around power programs will find out what is going on and will print it. The days of hiding shit are over. And they will print more than what the coach would admit to if the coach starts hiding shit. Coaches might as well be honest around tough media. "Player X just has not given an acceptable effort the past couple of games/practices, so I am going with Player Y instead." See how easy that is? "Player X unfortunately violated a team rule and we have to sit him down this week. I am sure he will learn from his mistake." "Player X really fvcked up and is no longer with us, and that's all I am going to say about that." It isn't hard. Shit, UofL couldn't even hide Kevin Ware getting a speeding ticket, the media was on it. Yet we have a starting QB not on the sideline, crazy rumors coming out of the program, and no one in the media is asking why. WTF is that? Because Doc blackballed Landon and they are afraid of getting the same treatment? Talk about power and doing whatever a coach wants to.

This has nothing to do with idiocy, so why you brought up idiocy is beyond me. Do you mean they are idiots because they actually tell the media if a player is being a douche, and thus the coach is an asshole throwing a player under the bus? You said they spout off at the mouth, your exact words. Or do you mean screwing whores and stuff like that? I have to assume the former because that is what we are discussing.

 

[Raoul Duke MU]

Looks like Grant Taylor also laid it out pretty well in the H-D. I read it on another board so I don't have a link. I've used up my 10 free articles so I cannot view it online.

http://www.herald-dispatch.com/spor...cle_a2243f85-544a-5cb3-9f0e-7555d271019c.html

 

[flip2448]

Communication is the key to every facet of life. Whether it be in your relationships, workplace, family, etc. If you do not effectively communicate what exactly is taking place or what has been done or the choices or decisions you make, you open it up to all kinds of speculation that leads to turmoil, grumblings, rumors, etc. Essentially anything that will destroy teamwork, camaraderie, culture, etc. (Sorry for all of the lists but you get my point). When you do not or can not explain yourself, you are either an ineffective communicator, lazy, haughty, or insecure in your decisions.

Also, to some others points. I'm a big UK basketball fan and I follow Calipari on Twitter as well as players and he constantly provides updates and explanations of decisions on personnel whether it be disciplinary or injury.