FOOTBALL GAME THREAD Va Tech
- Thread starter Chris McLaughlin
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Saw a great line from a FSU fan last week. Said their QB could overthrow Castro.
EZ their man, we’re they’re mistakes buy the wide outz n the first half? Shure. But the quarterback has to play more good.
Fancher was not a good qb. Neither is Earle (it appears), both can be true.
Also true: Huff is incredibly stubborn.
QBs are coached to slide feet first. It’s tough to have that drilled into your head and then change it for just one play in an instant.
Some of you guys are the Simone Biles of mental gymnastics.
It doesn't look like Stone Earle is the QB answer - 13/36 passing yesterday. With his season QBR at 131st (Fancher at 129th), it look like we don't evaluate QBs very well! Might be a long season!
I dont think Earle is the answer, but WRs dropped at least 9 balls. The WRs need to get separation and learn to make a contested catch, along with making catches that hit them in the chest/hands. Not sure why we are rotating RBs in and out constantly either. AJ Turner had 100 yds on 6 carries. 6!! He's a game breaker. Keep feeding him.
I like our Dfense but they cant be expected to stay on the field as long as they were yesterday.
I like our Dfense but they cant be expected to stay on the field as long as they were yesterday.
WRs dropped some balls but there were a lot of terrible throws. Every throw was a jump ball, and he seemed to be panicking.
It feels like we have the exact same type of QB/system as last year.
It's not mental gymnastics, it's reality. Should he have tried for the first down? Sure. But when you're scolded any other time you do that, it isn't surprising to see a QB do what he is constantly told to do.
Clearly, I'm in the minority but I don't think Earle looked bad at all. Sure, he had some speedbumps but had our receivers caught a few more passes, I think we have a very different conversation.
I was at the game with a great view of the entire field and we also have to give VT some credit. Their secondary for the most part had us on lockdown and it was clear they were well-coached. More than one of those incompletions were the result of their DBs punching the pall free the second it touched the receiver's hands.
I would like to see Braxton but I'm not going to pin yesterday's loss solely on the QB.
I was at the game with a great view of the entire field and we also have to give VT some credit. Their secondary for the most part had us on lockdown and it was clear they were well-coached. More than one of those incompletions were the result of their DBs punching the pall free the second it touched the receiver's hands.
I would like to see Braxton but I'm not going to pin yesterday's loss solely on the QB.
Why would he get scolded for getting a first down? Wouldn’t he be coached to understand the difference?
I wonder if Huff's agent can still get any journalists to hype him up as a hot candidate for potential HC vacancies.
more like Huff back to a RB coach...
Yes. It would be nice if we spent some time recruiting capable QBs from the HS ranks, instead of rolling the dice and hoping we land someone else's reject out of the portal to turn our QB room around.
Overall, I think we have some pieces to make for a decent season, unfortunately not confident we have the kind of staff capable in getting 40 new players to gel into the team needed to contend.
With the NIL, players coming and going in the portal, and coaches always ready to leave for better positions, it is a wonder that many college teams can field a decent team at all.
In the 2nd and 3rd quarter he dropped back 12 times. He was 2-10 for 18 yards, sacked once, scrambled once, and threw an interception. We had 2 3 and outs that were all passes. His completions were the 18 yard TD and one for zero yards.
That stretch of horrible QB play is what cost us the game. He was 0-5 in the 2nd and our defense was on the field almost 13 minutes that quarter.
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Quarterbacks dive head first for first downs in that situation every week.
It’s about having awareness of the situation.
It’s true. Your inexperience in football prohibits you from knowing this.
As I already said, should he have been more aggressive going for the first down in that situation? Yes. But also like I said, when you only ever practice sliding and avoiding contact as a QB, it becomes natural to do that.
The dumbest thing said in this thread is that “every throw was a jump ball.” With tight coverage, a great way to beat that is with back shoulder and purposely under thrown balls, which is what many of his deeper balls were.
"your inexperience in football..."
keep making excuses for a guy that didn't know the situation. If you never saw QBs go head first there or try to get the extra yard then sure... but it happens every week.
As per the jump ball comment, they were. Yes, coverage was tight a lot of the time. But he was also quick to go to his first read without progression. But you're right rifle. You are the smartest guy on this board and you know, I'm glad we are in the capable hands we're in. Against Ohio State we should try for 5 completions in the first half. We'd really be rolling then.
How is it making excuses when I have repeatedly said that he should have been more aggressive trying to get the first-down in that situation? That isn't making an excuse. What is your excuse for lacking reading comprehension?
I've explained this multiple times, but you don't want to face reality.
QBs are constantly told to slide feet first to avoid injury. Hell, it's why there are rules now surrounding sliding and hitting QBs in those situations. QBs are constantly chastised when they don't slide feet first. It's not unreasonable for a QB to default to what he has been told every single time he is in that type of situation.
If all of his throws were jump balls like you claimed in this thread, he must have had a ton of INTs, right? 5? 6? Hell, just mulitple, right? No. That doesn't seem to add up.
Not only was he not "quick to go to his first read without progression," but that has absolutely nothing to do with his throws being jump balls like you claimed. Him throwing to his first read each time, which wasn't the case, has absolutely nothing to do with throwing a jump ball.
I agree. And on this topic, the disparity is even larger.
I'm not making excuses. But here is an excuse. QBs are also taught to throw the ball away if they to avoid throwing a pick. But if they did that on 4th down it would be a bad play.
So, not only was the coverage tight all night but he was able to throw good balls into tight coverage that his guys couldn't catch, but also the defense couldn't catch either because they were that well placed. Got it. This guy really threaded the needle!
If his first read isn't open, and he's throwing to him, then it does.
You're right though, the guy with the QBR of 22 against powerhouse.... Stony Brook, that is the guy who is above questioning.
No, that’s not always accurate. In many situations, it’s better to turn the ball over on downs compared with taking a high-risk INT. Further, it’s why you fairly regularly see QBs throw the ball away on 4th instead of throwing a pick: because they are so frequently taught to avoid turnovers and to throw it away. It doesn’t make it right in some situations, but it’s understandable if a QB resorts to that.
QBs never have a drill where they purposely throw into tight coverage/high-risk INT situations. QBs never have a drill where they purposely go head-first into a collision/dangerous situation. And that’s my entire point: those aren’t always the correct decisions, but it’s understandable that anybody resorts to doing what they are trained to do.
There’s that pesky reading comprehension thing again.
A great way to complete passes when the secondary is far more talented than your passing game is to throw back shoulder and/or under thrown balls. And, as I said earlier in the thread, Stone and the game plan did a good job of utilizing that strategy all game. It’s also why I said that the receivers needed to make some plays at some point (one-handed catch after the fact not withstanding). Those type of balls allows passes to be completed against more talented defenses. They aren’t easy to throw, yet Stone did a good job with them. They aren’t easy to catch, but starting FBS receivers should be able to come down with the majority of them. But that didn’t happen time-and-time again.
Those balls, if thrown correctly, are also nearly impossible to intercept if there is good coverage. Defenders are taught to react to the receivers hands/eyes. They are taught not to look back for the ball. Those type of balls make it nearly impossible for a well defended receiver to be picked off, because when the defender reacts to the receiver’s movement, the ball is well out of the defender’s reach, but is catchable to a receiver who can adjust.
As I said before, to an untrained eye, those balls look like they are thrown poorly. In reality, where he was placing them allowed the receiver to make the play even while tightly covered while also making it nearly impossible to be picked off.
So all of that equals great accuracy on those balls, no INT, and no completions.
No, it does not. A jump ball is one where both the offense and the defense have a reasonably similar chance to catch the ball. Throwing to a covered receiver does not mean it’s a jump ball (one great and common example is mentioned above).
He’s far from perfect. That doesn’t mean everything he is being criticized for is accurate (see your posts).
Scan your memory going all of the way back to Bill Legg. Think about how all of the OCs/QBs since Cato were talked about on this board. Yet, with all of the constant crying and complaining, Marshall has been to bowl games and had winning seasons six out of those eight seasons, meaning they are at least a decent program. That’s hard to do without having a top 25 defense each year while having incompetent OCs and QBs, huh?
The reality is that much of the criticism is unfounded, uneducated, and in many cases, is just fans piling on top of bogus comments other uneducated posters have made. It has happened almost every year for a decade regardless of who the OC and QB are, and it has started in week one this year.
I'm not responding to all your threads above. You're convinced that he made good throws/reads all day long while going 13-36 and then sliding 3 yards short on a 3rd down when we were still trying to fight back. Oh, and then overthrew the receiver by 10 feet on 4th down (but, I am sure it was the correct throw and that is somehow on the WR for not catching it, or being positioned in mid air).
What I will comment on is what is listed above. "he's far from perfect". That doesn't even do it justice. He is statistically one of the worst quarterbacks in the nation. Do you know who is one spot above him in QBR this year? Cam Fancher. It's almost poetic. But time and again fans are told, we are the problem. We ran a good QB out of town. And it is the same crap this year.
It didn't start in week 1 this year, it is a continuation of the frustration from last season. This coaching staff is unable, or unwilling to make adjustments and go to QBs who are not their chosen guy. No one is wishing ill on Earle, and no one is saying he should never play again. But he had a bad game against Stony Brook and even though the game was in the balance and he was having a horrific game against Virginia Tech... he was left in. The two guys who looked better against Stony Brook never got off the sideline.
As to your claim Marshall is a "decent" program. I think Marshall is a mediocre program and we haven't had a good QB since Cato. It would be nice if we brought in a QB who we didn't have to have these discussions about.
So now you're resorting to fabricating outright lies, attributing those lies to me, and then arguing against them. That's the textbook definition of a straw man argument. I've said nothing even close to what you just claimed.
Don't confuse me exposing your arguments for being incorrect as me defending Stone as being a great QB through two games.
Ok, you want to base an opinion on statistics over two games (remember that for later in this post).
Continuation from last season? What world do you live in? This has been the m.o. of Marshall fans on here for many, many years.
2016: Litton sucks, fire Bill Legg
2017: Litton sucks, fire Bill Legg
2018: Alex Thomson sucks, this Cramsey guy is overrated; Isaiah Green sucks
2019: Isaiah Green sucks, fire Tim Cramsey
2020: Grant Wells sucks, fire Tim Cramsey
2021: Grant Wells sucks and throws too many INTs now, why did Huff retain Cramsey? Fire Cramsey.
2022: Zamora sucks, Colombi got lucky against ND and sucks; Fancher sucks; fire Trickett
2023: Fancher sucks; we want Pennington; fire Trickett; Pennington sucks
2024 (after one game): This Stone guy and the two backups are all much better than Fancher.
2024 (after two games) Stone sucks, he is only one spot higher than Fancher in a statistic; this OC is a fraud since this isn't air-raid; we want the other two QBs.
Frustration from last season? This coaching staff? You all have done this for nearly a decade regardless of the quarterback or the coaching staff. The only difference year-to-year is that Cramsey, Litton, Doc, Thomson, Wells, Zamora, Colombi, Trickett, and Pennington seem to have gotten a little longer rope than Isaiah Green, Fancher, and Huff.
So you want to use stats of two games to support your stance on Stone, yet you ignore stats on these other QBs who you claim weren't good.
As a freshman, Litton threw for only 30 yards per game fewer than Cato in his senior year. As a freshman, Litton had a 3/1 TD/INT ratio just like Cato in his senior year. As a freshman, Litton's completion percentage was 60%, while Cato's was 59% as a senior.
Based on statistics, Litton's freshman season was just about equal with Cato's senior year, yet Cato was good and Litton wasn't according to you.
Want more?
As a freshman, Grant Wells:
272 yards per game
66%
7.9 yards per attempt
1 INT every 34.2 attempts
As a senior, Cato:
279 yards per game
59%
8.7 yards per attempt
1 INT every 34.7 attempts
So even though their stats were very similar, Wells wasn't good as a freshman but Cato was good as a senior.
Your claim simply doesn't add up. And it's not just you. For nearly a decade, this board has railed against the QB first, then the OC, then. eventually the head coach whenever Marshall doesn't go 13-1, even when their arguments don't hold up.
I’ll respond to the rest of this later when I’m at a computer because incredibly. But I’ll just ask you this now:
Are you saying that Grant Wells, Chase Litton, and Isaiah Green are on the same level as Rakeem Cato? If you are it’s fine, I just want to make sure I understand how you’re using these statistics.
You know he is not saying that. Statistics will never tell the whole story of a player. Context is everything.
ok. I’m just learning the rules about when and how to use statistics.
The context to the statistics I used is that our quarterback the last two year has been in the bottom 3rd or lower in QBR and the play on the field seems to match that. Our offense has underperformed.
Clearly, because you use a statistic after two games for support of your argument but then throw out other major stats that show multiple Marshall freshman QBs produced as well as Cato in his senior year.
I never threw those stats out. I was simply asking, are you saying those guys were on the same level as Rakeem Cato?
No. Again, what I’m showing is that you’re using QBR to try and compare Stone to Fancher when it suits your argument, yet you won’t compare stats for Wells/Litton in their freshman years vs. Cato’s senior year when it works against your argument.
I was never trying to compare Wells/Litton with Cato so i'm not sure where "you won't compare stats".
Earle looks very similar to how Fancher looked last season. Which is a problem. Either its a problem with the receivers, or the scheme, or just his talent. But it is a problem. Our offense wasn't good enough last year and this year hasn't looked good either. Blame who you want, I'd like to see what Braxton since he looked better in his limited action than Earle did.
It being a continuation of last season was in reference to you saying this started in week on this year. Then you got bent out of shape and decided to tell Marshall fans how bad we are.
This thread has gone on too long so this is my last post in it. I'm tired as a Marshall fan of being told I'm the problem.
- The gameday atmosphere is disorganized and amateur, but that is my fault because if I want to have a good atmosphere I should "write a check".
- If fans question the coaching staff we're berated for doing so by other fans because of how great things are.
- Our coach told us that we are the problem last year and that we forced a kid to transfer by making his life "miserable" because we thought the backup should get a chance.
- We're being told that we should be happy with what we have, just happy to compete. Happy to win 7 games or 6 and make a bowl. We're told that just existing is a win and that its a privilege to have a team.
- We're told that we should support the team and coaches no matter what and never expect more.
Some of these are not things you have said but others. I'm tired of being told I'm the problem. I'm tired of mediocrity and being ok with 6-6 or 7-5.
One last note, I have not seen anyone on this board (or in person) attack Earle personally. The only thing we have said is that we would like to see what Braxton has. If that is being a bad fan then I'm a bad fan.
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