Video of ODU’s renovated stadium

[The Real SamC]

As a side note to this - USA Today has a good article on the attendance crisis in Major League Baseball and the new trend of smaller ballparks with more fan friendly amenities. It's all about entertainment and a fan experience - especially with the under 30 crowd and their A.D.D.

I read that. Pretty much it can be summed up as greed and extortion by the team owners. Baseball started out in those team owned urban ballparks, like Crosley Field, which were obsoleted by white flight, the change of the middle class from transit to cars (most had little parking), and simple age. This would be "gen 1". "Gen 2" were the circular "ashtray" or "cookie cutter" parks for football and baseball, such as Riverfront Stadium. Government owned and sold to the taxpayers as multi-generational transformative deals that would last for a hundred years or more. Most lasted about 30. Then came "gen 3" which were the "throwback" parks started by Baltimore's Camden Yards, and represented in our area by Great American Ballpark. Again sold by "experts" as "the answer" and again a "final solution" to the team, going to last for generations. Gen 3 Turner Field in Atlanta lasted only 19 seasons, and will be joined by the multiple named, currently Globe Life Park in suburban Dallas which will be replaced next year after only 24 seasons.

Gen 4 is the "expert's" latest bright idea, of a tiny seating capacity, and lots of loop t loops and other non-baseball distractions for people uninterested in the game. Left unexplained by the "experts" is why these people would not just go to another loop t loop in town and stare at their cellphones there. And what happens in 10 or 15 years when new "experts" demand taxpayers build a "gen 5", whatever that might be.

Marshall brass would be well advised to hone in on this and make every effort to keep whats going on in and around the stadium as lively and fun as possible. Either that or continue to wonder why the fan base is shrinking. Winning helps, but that's not the only piece of the puzzle.

I am not totally dismissive of the issue. Marketing live gate tickets in a world where every game is available in HDTV in every living room and every bar everywhere, is a different world from where college football was not that long ago. I get that. And a game on TV played before a sea of empties looks awful. I get that. But, I just do not see the evidence that the loop t loop crowd is going to show up at the game, no matter how much we pander to them. Rather, why not make sure, as TV $$ become more of the pie, get the most we can from that, and sell the nostalgia of actually going to a game and following your team. By paying attention to the game.

 

[MarshallManiac]

A few times...I'm guessing you're referring to home games against big opponents?
Those are increasing.

The looks of the seats can be interpreted...if they're full, nobody's going to notice.

Sky boxes can be individually bought and could wrap around one half of the stadium (like Camp Randall in Wisconsin).

How are you going to have a standing room only place in an area that has been claimed to be never full to begin with?

Finally, reducing seating capacity shows ANYONE that you can't draw a crowd.
Its one thing to renovate a stadium and loose 1,000-2,000 seats...but whats being proposed is a reduction of almost 9,000 seats.

You would have to re-assign some sections (like the student section) to other areas of the stadium...and as we all know how batsh*t crazy everyone went last time sections were moved.
You're also dealing with peoole who apparently "get sick at the smell of alcohol" and want to out a party deck which should no doubt, serve alcohol, to a stadium that doesn't even fully sell it.

Students would likely enjoy said party deck, which I am sure will be tightly regulated, but would prefer to fill sodas with airplane bottles of rum in bleachers they don't have to pay extra for.

I think a bigger question to answer is who the hell is this going to be aimed at attracting? You placed sky boxes (which are for high rollers) and students (who are broke af) in the same area.

I don't need to address attendance for "big opponents" as that has already been discussed. We don't have a single team on our schedule that will push our attendance over 35K. I doubt that we'll top 33K. Virginia Tech is the only one that will get us there because they will bring probably 5K with the short drive from Blacksburg.

By standing room only, I was inferring a "party deck" atmosphere like many others here are discussing.

And yes, it may show people that Marshall can't draw a crowd...but the fact is, Marshall can't draw a crowd. The stadium is half empty every game and on television it looks embarrassing. Remove the cheap looking endzone seats. Enclose it with an addition similar to what ODU has done and lower the prices of sections 100, 102, 124 & 126.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I don't need to address attendance for "big opponents" as that has already been discussed. We don't have a single team on our schedule that will push our attendance over 35K. I doubt that we'll top 33K. Virginia Tech is the only one that will get us there because they will bring probably 5K with the short drive from Blacksburg.

By standing room only, I was inferring a "party deck" atmosphere like many others here are discussing.

And yes, it may show people that Marshall can't draw a crowd...but the fact is, Marshall can't draw a crowd. The stadium is half empty every game and on television it looks embarrassing. Remove the cheap looking endzone seats. Enclose it with an addition similar to what ODU has done and lower the prices of sections 100, 102, 124 & 126.

The whole concept of a party deck is contradictory because you're saying people are going to be drawn to it, over what they're supposed to be drawn to, which is the football game.
Lowering the ticket prices? As if to increase attendance?
I wish I could find the letter from the UMass fan about Bob Marcum because I believe he did that same thing at UMass and it didn't work.

I honestly didn't think Purdue would bring as many as they did, but I was proven wrong so I'm not going to presume MU automatically comes up short in high attendance for any P5.

I'm not against a party deck but I do think you should just put it at the north end, on the Shewey building and add onto that. Its actually a decent size and something that, if successfull, could be expanded upon.

But I don't think a party deck is going to magically transform attendance numbers.
Even at their peak, MU couldn't draw.

People complain about uniform colors, music being played, band selection, alcohol, etc...

Not sure a party deck is going to change people's perceptions either.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

As a side note to this - USA Today has a good article on the attendance crisis in Major League Baseball and the new trend of smaller ballparks with more fan friendly amenities. It's all about entertainment and a fan experience - especially with the under 30 crowd and their A.D.D.
Marshall brass would be well advised to hone in on this and make every effort to keep whats going on in and around the stadium as lively and fun as possible. Either that or continue to wonder why the fan base is shrinking. Winning helps, but that's not the only piece of the puzzle.

Well...the brass could start by living in 2019 and not 1999.
Get on board that black is a color.
Let hip hop and rap music be played.
Quit nitpicking on every detail about the current team and just enjoy the game as a whole.
Many MU fans embrace and love the tradition of MU and know the story of the school. But let them do it in their own way. Quit forcing them to embrace it YOUR way...this includes backouts among other things.
Any ideas shouldn't be so condescendingly shot down because it's "new" since "new is scary" for old people.
Accept that fandom has changed over the decades and you may not be used to it, it is what it is. Just because a student is taking a selfie and spreading the word on social media during a game, doesn't mean they care less, its their expression of fandom that we didn't have at that age.

MU could certainly cater to younger fans and students with payment plans to be BG members as an option on their enrollment packets.
Show the benefits of membership and some perks they get as BG members.
Explain a goal to them, to get so many students as BG members each semester, maybe have a contest for students recruiting new member students, give them like a skybox ticket package for football or basketball for getting the most.

Not sure if they have BG membership sign ups at games, they should, and should go to various student oriented tailgate organizations, and get them recruited from there among other things.
I got more ideas but I gotta go for now.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

As a side note to this - USA Today has a good article on the attendance crisis in Major League Baseball and the new trend of smaller ballparks with more fan friendly amenities. It's all about entertainment and a fan experience - especially with the under 30 crowd and their A.D.D.
Marshall brass would be well advised to hone in on this and make every effort to keep whats going on in and around the stadium as lively and fun as possible. Either that or continue to wonder why the fan base is shrinking. Winning helps, but that's not the only piece of the puzzle.

One other thing...MLB is an entirely different sport than football.
Football is, by comparison, faster paced, with more time between plays and action.
By that alone, MLB stadiums ALL have various elements between innings...which are more than double the time in a football game.

So baseball sort of has to entertain its fans because games are longer and more drawn out than football.

 

[muthed]

I read that. Pretty much it can be summed up as greed and extortion by the team owners. Baseball started out in those team owned urban ballparks, like Crosley Field, which were obsoleted by white flight, the change of the middle class from transit to cars (most had little parking), and simple age. This would be "gen 1". "Gen 2" were the circular "ashtray" or "cookie cutter" parks for football and baseball, such as Riverfront Stadium. Government owned and sold to the taxpayers as multi-generational transformative deals that would last for a hundred years or more. Most lasted about 30. Then came "gen 3" which were the "throwback" parks started by Baltimore's Camden Yards, and represented in our area by Great American Ballpark. Again sold by "experts" as "the answer" and again a "final solution" to the team, going to last for generations. Gen 3 Turner Field in Atlanta lasted only 19 seasons, and will be joined by the multiple named, currently Globe Life Park in suburban Dallas which will be replaced next year after only 24 seasons.

Gen 4 is the "expert's" latest bright idea, of a tiny seating capacity, and lots of loop t loops and other non-baseball distractions for people uninterested in the game. Left unexplained by the "experts" is why these people would not just go to another loop t loop in town and stare at their cellphones there. And what happens in 10 or 15 years when new "experts" demand taxpayers build a "gen 5", whatever that might be.



I am not totally dismissive of the issue. Marketing live gate tickets in a world where every game is available in HDTV in every living room and every bar everywhere, is a different world from where college football was not that long ago. I get that. And a game on TV played before a sea of empties looks awful. I get that. But, I just do not see the evidence that the loop t loop crowd is going to show up at the game, no matter how much we pander to them. Rather, why not make sure, as TV $$ become more of the pie, get the most we can from that, and sell the nostalgia of actually going to a game and following your team. By paying attention to the game.

Yes, but $200,000 won't take you too far.

 

[muthed]

The whole concept of a party deck is contradictory because you're saying people are going to be drawn to it, over what they're supposed to be drawn to, which is the football game.
Lowering the ticket prices? As if to increase attendance?
I wish I could find the letter from the UMass fan about Bob Marcum because I believe he did that same thing at UMass and it didn't work.

I honestly didn't think Purdue would bring as many as they did, but I was proven wrong so I'm not going to presume MU automatically comes up short in high attendance for any P5.

I'm not against a party deck but I do think you should just put it at the north end, on the Shewey building and add onto that. Its actually a decent size and something that, if successfull, could be expanded upon.

But I don't think a party deck is going to magically transform attendance numbers.
Even at their peak, MU couldn't draw.

People complain about uniform colors, music being played, band selection, alcohol, etc...

Not sure a party deck is going to change people's perceptions either.

Don't think a party deck on the Shewey will work. Too high.

 

[herdalicious]

Looking at the most recent USA Today numbers, looks like none of this matters - for C-USA schools (and most G5s), the most profitable thing you can do is increase student fees for athletics.

It's such a strange industry when you dig in on that data. Seems like most G5s (Marshall included) have this 50/50 threshold where you're allowed to spend twice as much as you make, knowing that second half will be paid by students and school, whatever the calculus for that needs to be.

Make more money? Spend more money, both the money you made, and money you didn't.

 

[Herdmeister]

The whole concept of a party deck is contradictory because you're saying people are going to be drawn to it, over what they're supposed to be drawn to, which is the football game.
Lowering the ticket prices? As if to increase attendance?
I wish I could find the letter from the UMass fan about Bob Marcum because I believe he did that same thing at UMass and it didn't work.

I honestly didn't think Purdue would bring as many as they did, but I was proven wrong so I'm not going to presume MU automatically comes up short in high attendance for any P5.

I'm not against a party deck but I do think you should just put it at the north end, on the Shewey building and add onto that. Its actually a decent size and something that, if successfull, could be expanded upon.

But I don't think a party deck is going to magically transform attendance numbers.
Even at their peak, MU couldn't draw.

People complain about uniform colors, music being played, band selection, alcohol, etc...

Not sure a party deck is going to change people's perceptions either.

I agree. I don;t think having a party deck would add many new people if any at all. Surely not enough to make a difference. Granted I am older and drink beer, only because I hate the taste, but all the deck would do is take some fans that now sit in section 109 to the deck. Another 100 people or so would not move the meter. As for the deck over the Shewey, I think that would be very expensive since you wouldn't be able to build on the existing building. I feel sure it wasn't built to hold an extra few tons of weight. I believe it would have to go to the south endzone.

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

One other thing...MLB is an entirely different sport than football.
Football is, by comparison, faster paced, with more time between plays and action.
By that alone, MLB stadiums ALL have various elements between innings...which are more than double the time in a football game.

So baseball sort of has to entertain its fans because games are longer and more drawn out than football.

It’s a problem regardless of sport. Attendance is down across the board. People want to be entertained and most of the students can’t stand to focus on something other than their phones for more than a few minutes.

Make it fun and entertaining and they will come. And yes, MU does play rap music at the football games, at least the ones I attended last year. it’s gawd awful crap.

 

[Herdmeister]

It’s a problem regardless of sport. Attendance is down across the board. People want to be entertained and most of the students can’t stand to focus on something other than their phones for more than a few minutes.

Make it fun and entertaining and they will come. And yes, MU does play rap music at the football games, at least the ones I attended last year. it’s gawd awful crap.

I remember going to many Orlando Magic games the first few years they were in the NBA. I was always amazed of all the things they did at a game. Believe me, when there was a basketball time out, the entertainment did NOT stop.

 

[ATOesMU]

Programming is everything - doesn’t have to interfere with watching the game, either. Set up the endzone to be like Oakland’s “Black Hole” and encourage/incent fans to get crazy with costumes and cheers. Send someone to Seattle and meet with gameday producers of Seahawks and Sounders games. Look at what Premiere League teams do to get the fans engaged - don’t mean to be critical of our staff, they do a good job and are quality folks, but you can always do more,

 

[The Real SamC]

One other thing...MLB is an entirely different sport than football.

And that really is the point. Just look locally at GABP and PBS. At GABP there are party decks, all you can eats, beer gardens, a concourse of food options that looks like a mall food court, and tons of distractions for kids, tweeners, mom's basement dwellers, and others; as you pass an lazy warm summer's evening watching a game, knowing that sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes it rains. At PBS, serious people sit in weather that degrades from too hot to freezing cold over the course of the season to watch a violent action sport. Different.

Looking at the most recent USA Today numbers, looks like none of this matters - for C-USA schools (and most G5s), the most profitable thing you can do is increase student fees for athletics.

It's such a strange industry when you dig in on that data. Seems like most G5s (Marshall included) have this 50/50 threshold where you're allowed to spend twice as much as you make, knowing that second half will be paid by students and school, whatever the calculus for that needs to be.

I would urge everyone to take a serious look at the USA Today figures. It may change opinions about believing MU is not exactly where it belongs, about UCF and THE AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!, about the MAC, the Sun Belt and other issues (such as a crew that has, for decades, claimed to be "self-sufficient" but is not).

 

[mubaseballking]

Don't think a party deck on the Shewey will work. Too high.

Also, are there any HVAC units on the roof that would be in the way as well?

I respect the previous post regarding the difference between baseball and football and how a party deck or other social gathering places work in the stadiums. Earlier this summer I took in some MLB games in Cleveland, Detroit and Chicago. All those ballparks have those types of gathering spots/ticket options and they were packed at each game, in each stadium.

Also, as I posted before, the setup at Colorado State could possibly work at MU. They have good turnout for their party/social area behind the endzone.

 

[CarolinaZilla69]

Well...the brass could start by living in 2019 and not 1999.
Get on board that black is a color.
Let hip hop and rap music be played.
Quit nitpicking on every detail about the current team and just enjoy the game as a whole.
Many MU fans embrace and love the tradition of MU and know the story of the school. But let them do it in their own way. Quit forcing them to embrace it YOUR way...this includes backouts among other things.
Any ideas shouldn't be so condescendingly shot down because it's "new" since "new is scary" for old people.
Accept that fandom has changed over the decades and you may not be used to it, it is what it is. Just because a student is taking a selfie and spreading the word on social media during a game, doesn't mean they care less, its their expression of fandom that we didn't have at that age.

MU could certainly cater to younger fans and students with payment plans to be BG members as an option on their enrollment packets.
Show the benefits of membership and some perks they get as BG members.
Explain a goal to them, to get so many students as BG members each semester, maybe have a contest for students recruiting new member students, give them like a skybox ticket package for football or basketball for getting the most.

Not sure if they have BG membership sign ups at games, they should, and should go to various student oriented tailgate organizations, and get them recruited from there among other things.
I got more ideas but I gotta go for now.

Membership to the Big Green Foundation starts as low as $5.00. Heck, I spill that much beer at Herd tailgates parties.

HerdZilla22 in HERD NATION

 

[TwolfHerdfan]

It’s $10 a month on the auto-draft plan. Put up or shut up time. We need everyone to get on board.

 

[MarshallManiac]

The whole concept of a party deck is contradictory because you're saying people are going to be drawn to it, over what they're supposed to be drawn to, which is the football game.
Lowering the ticket prices? As if to increase attendance?
I wish I could find the letter from the UMass fan about Bob Marcum because I believe he did that same thing at UMass and it didn't work.

I honestly didn't think Purdue would bring as many as they did, but I was proven wrong so I'm not going to presume MU automatically comes up short in high attendance for any P5.

I'm not against a party deck but I do think you should just put it at the north end, on the Shewey building and add onto that. Its actually a decent size and something that, if successfull, could be expanded upon.

But I don't think a party deck is going to magically transform attendance numbers.
Even at their peak, MU couldn't draw.

People complain about uniform colors, music being played, band selection, alcohol, etc...

Not sure a party deck is going to change people's perceptions either.

I'm really not even sure what you are arguing. Kinda all over the place.

I'm not suggesting a party deck as a way to increase attendance necessarily. My suggestion for the south endzone has two purposes.
1. Remove the eyesore, cheap seating in the endzone and replace it with something nicer.
2. Push most of the fans that would normally be in the endzone to the sidelines.

Regarding #2, the only reason I'm suggesting to lower those particular sections is to give people those same prices that they would normally pay for the endzone seats that would, hypothetically, no longer be there. I'm not suggesting to lower all prices drastically, though I think an argument could be made for that.

If you want to believe that P5 teams are going to bring good crowds, that's fine...as long as you think 34-35K is a good crowd. Unless the team is WVU or Alabama or somebody ridiculous....we're probably not going to top those numbers. Sure, 35K looks great and looks full....but it still doesn't mean we NEED those endzone seats.

I believe a study was already done on the Shewey Building and the foundation was not designed for anything to be built on top. I don't know where I read that but I feel like that was looked at probably 10-15 years ago.

And again, I'm not trying to transform attendance with my suggestion. I'm trying to transform the look of the stadium and the atmosphere with my suggestions. Remove the ugly and replace with something nice AND make the stadium look more full with the current attendance by putting them on the sidelines.

But, I mean, if you like the butt ugly bleachers in the endzone...I'm sure they are there to stay so you can celebrate your message board victory.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

I'm really not even sure what you are arguing. Kinda all over the place.

I'm not suggesting a party deck as a way to increase attendance necessarily. My suggestion for the south endzone has two purposes.
1. Remove the eyesore, cheap seating in the endzone and replace it with something nicer.
2. Push most of the fans that would normally be in the endzone to the sidelines.

Regarding #2, the only reason I'm suggesting to lower those particular sections is to give people those same prices that they would normally pay for the endzone seats that would, hypothetically, no longer be there. I'm not suggesting to lower all prices drastically, though I think an argument could be made for that.

If you want to believe that P5 teams are going to bring good crowds, that's fine...as long as you think 34-35K is a good crowd. Unless the team is WVU or Alabama or somebody ridiculous....we're probably not going to top those numbers. Sure, 35K looks great and looks full....but it still doesn't mean we NEED those endzone seats.

I believe a study was already done on the Shewey Building and the foundation was not designed for anything to be built on top. I don't know where I read that but I feel like that was looked at probably 10-15 years ago.

And again, I'm not trying to transform attendance with my suggestion. I'm trying to transform the look of the stadium and the atmosphere with my suggestions. Remove the ugly and replace with something nice AND make the stadium look more full with the current attendance by putting them on the sidelines.

But, I mean, if you like the butt ugly bleachers in the endzone...I'm sure they are there to stay so you can celebrate your message board victory.

They aren't that ugly. You just want something so bad and think its so much better than what currently exists, you're willing to diminish it further than what it actually should be.
It could use some paint no doubt, but thats it.

I simply disagree with reducing the capacity by so much in order to "appear" full. It also cuts down on revenue generated from a large crowd.
Yes, I would like 34-35k in a 39,000 person stadium as opposed to 25-26k in a 31,000 person stadium.

A party deck cuts down on paying customers, which is sadly, the direction college football has gone and won't change.
Its a great marketing slight of hand if you want to believe it...believe that MU can be at 90% capacity regularly but dismiss the history that a large amount of seating was reduced to make it so.

I am not sure about the structural integrity of the Shewey Building itself, it was merely a suggestion. I'd prefer to tear it down and re-build it, bigger and better, and if possible, a party deck or something.
I would like to know if they'd do a party deck for the baseball field. That'd be a nice place to start and see how well it does.

But hey, if you're for this, message Hamrick and see what he says.

 

[MarshallManiac]

They aren't that ugly. You just want something so bad and think its so much better than what currently exists, you're willing to diminish it further than what it actually should be.
It could use some paint no doubt, but thats it.

I simply disagree with reducing the capacity by so much in order to "appear" full. It also cuts down on revenue generated from a large crowd.
Yes, I would like 34-35k in a 39,000 person stadium as opposed to 25-26k in a 31,000 person stadium.

A party deck cuts down on paying customers, which is sadly, the direction college football has gone and won't change.
Its a great marketing slight of hand if you want to believe it...believe that MU can be at 90% capacity regularly but dismiss the history that a large amount of seating was reduced to make it so.

I am not sure about the structural integrity of the Shewey Building itself, it was merely a suggestion. I'd prefer to tear it down and re-build it, bigger and better, and if possible, a party deck or something.
I would like to know if they'd do a party deck for the baseball field. That'd be a nice place to start and see how well it does.

But hey, if you're for this, message Hamrick and see what he says.

What in the world are you talking about? Did I give some kind of indication that I was staying up at night losing sleep because I was worried about whether or not Marshall had a party deck? I'm not diminishing anything. The endzone seats look like a cheap afterthought. It's pretty simple.

Also, you wouldn't lose any revenue because the last I heard, we actually have a demand for the boxes that I suggested. Which, by the way, was my main point...you are the one that kinda hung on for the party deck idea. Moving the folks that sit in the endzone and adding boxes to meet the demand would most definitely increase revenue. The addition of a party deck or something like it is just gravy.

The one thing I can agree with is that I wish the Shewey had been built bigger and better but if that ever happens it will be a long time from now as it has just recently been renovated. In its current state, it cannot support any additions to the top.

 

[GoHerdMarshallYes]

What in the world are you talking about? Did I give some kind of indication that I was staying up at night losing sleep because I was worried about whether or not Marshall had a party deck? I'm not diminishing anything. The endzone seats look like a cheap afterthought. It's pretty simple.

Also, you wouldn't lose any revenue because the last I heard, we actually have a demand for the boxes that I suggested. Which, by the way, was my main point...you are the one that kinda hung on for the party deck idea. Moving the folks that sit in the endzone and adding boxes to meet the demand would most definitely increase revenue. The addition of a party deck or something like it is just gravy.

The one thing I can agree with is that I wish the Shewey had been built bigger and better but if that ever happens it will be a long time from now as it has just recently been renovated. In its current state, it cannot support any additions to the top.

As I did with earlier responses, I actually addressed the boxes.
I suggested a style like that of Camp Randall at Wisconsin if the boxes are in demand...loop them halfway around.
Or...
Lets just add to my original posting about making the Shewey look like Oklahoma State's athletic building except with a party deck (not sure if there is an official one or not but MU could add one in) and be like Boone Pickens Stadium and have them go entirely around the stadium.

 

[THUNDERGround]

For all below data, P5 teams are indicated by bold, FCS/I-AA opponents indicated by italics.

In the last ten years, Marshall has hosted nine games in excess of 30,000 attendees (the maximum capacity of the stadium prior to the endzone expansion).

2010 WVU - 41,382
2011 Virginia Tech - 34,424
2012 Ohio - 33,436
2014 Ohio - 31,710
2014 MTSU - 30,210
2014 Rice - 30,680
2015 Purdue - 38,791
2016 Louisville - 40,592
2017 NC State - 32,349

Following is the upcoming slate of opponents (with last home crowd vs. indicated where applicable):

Appalachian State (No attendance data available, last meeting in 1995, prior to expansion)
Army
Boise State
Cincinnati (29,237)
East Carolina (25,117)
Liberty
Navy
Ohio (31,710)
Pitt
Virginia Tech (34,424)
VMI
Western Michigan (19,803)

K State? There HAD to have been 30k plus...